Re: Family Reunion

October 10, 2012

Ugh. If 7 aunts/uncles dumped it all back on you, there's no hope for me w/ my

one uncle who acts removed and distant when nada rages, like it's not his

problem and all should just " steer clear " .

I can imagine you are hurt and annoyed w/ them. Sounds justified. Have others

had similar experiences? Would be curious to hear more thoughts on this.

M madd_ink@...> wrote:

>Hi all,

>A few weeks ago I headed out to my cousin's wedding. This was a family reunion

of sorts as I hadn't seen everyone in about 8 years when I was a teenager

(everyone lives in carious parts of the country). My nada has a very large

family (one of 8 brothers and sisters). She was the only one of her brothers and

sisters not to attend the wedding. Since the last time I had seen everyone, I

had realized that my mother was " not ok " and definitely had BPD with maybe

something else mixed in (a ex-boyfriend dr. of hers mentioned schizophrenia to

me on the phone. I reached out to him- one of the few people I could think of

that had been in her life.) After all the struggles I went through with her as a

teenager and throughout college, I started reaching out to the family. Nada

referred to herself as the " black sheep " of the family a few times to me. I

didn't have too much of a relationship with her side of the family despite it

being so large. I figured that now, knowing that she needed help, was the time

to reach out. I reached out to two aunts and my grandmother. They all seemed

almost indifferent to the whole thing. I was coming from them asking for help

because I knew nada would not listen to me talk to her alone. Their responses

were along the lines of " Encourage her to get help. Don't stop talking to her.

Let her know you care. " After brief responses to my emails that was it. No one

wanted to talk to her about it or have any kind of an intervention. One aunt

privately talked to me about how my mother was always the odd one out, and as a

child I always seemed like the adult in the relationship etc. etc. It hurt that

the family knew what was going on (to an extent) and how she was but still never

tried to intervene. I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt but it still stings

a bit.

>I was hoping to have some discussions with the family about my mother and what

was going on but it never happened. It felt like she was a dirty secret that no

one wanted to get to close to BUT everyone still felt the need to encourage me

to call her and say she was missed at the wedding. I resented the fact that they

put the onus on me to call her. She is the one who has caused so much hurt and

caused us to not have a relationship. They don't even know the tip of the

iceberg of what has happened and dont seem to care to know. They dont know about

the times I was literally homeless calling and leaving messages begging for her

to call me and she didn't call back. I just let them all tell me what to do and

stayed silent not trying to start drama with 10+ family members at once when my

cousin is about to get married.

>Anyway, at the reunion I talked to my mother's childhood best friend. She told

me that my mom was always trying to be the shining star and get praise and

acknowledgement from her parents but ended up lost in the crowd of 8 kids.

Apparently when I was a baby, nada went to visit her friend and was a ball of

anxiety, worried about being a good mother. Friend said she was so worried about

being a good mother she ended up being a bad mother. This was a huge insight

into what made nada the way she is. It was almost a relief to know that she was

genuinely concerned about being a good parent. I guess she just got lost along

the way. Very lost. It makes me feel bad for her which I really haven't felt

before. It's mostly been anger but now it's sadness and pity that she will

never have a normal life.

>

October 10, 2012

M,

I'm sorry that your family didn't react the way you wanted them

to. Dealing with family members can be hard, particularly when

there have been issues in the past that prevented more contact.

It may be that the family members you spoke to aren't willing to

participate in any intervention because past experience tells

them it won't accomplish anything good. Knowing that someone

needs help is not at all the same as being able to help. They

may also feel that what goes on between you and your nada is

your business, not theirs. Even if they were interested in doing

it, what makes you think that your nada would listen if you got

some relatives that she is not on particularly good terms with

to talk to her along with you? That sounds unrealistic to me.

People with BPD generally perceive so-called " interventions " as

a bunch of people ganging up on them. They feel attacked and

even more hurt than usual which does nothing to make them want

to change their behavior for the better. Most people with BPD

are not going to admit they have a problem or get help no matter

who talks to them. They just can't recognize that the problem is

with them not with everyone else.

My advice is that if you want a relationship with these

relatives, do it without putting them in the middle of your

relationship with your nada. They can't fix her any more than

you can and asking to try is likely to drive a wedge between you

and them.

It might also help to consider what it is you think they could

have done in the past. It hurts to think that people didn't care

enough about you to do anything, but the truth may well be that

they did care but either didn't have enough knowledge or weren't

in a position to change things. Understanding that can go a

long way towards healing the pain. If they knew about things

that would officially be considered abuse or neglect they could

have reported the situation to the local child protection

authorities. The results of doing that may or may not have been

an improvement. Nadas are good at hiding the really abusive

behavior from others so they probably didn't know of anything of

that sort anyway. If they didn't know of anything that would

result in government intervention, there may not have been much

they could do if they weren't living in the same area. Talking

to her about how she treated you might well have made her more

determined to continue doing the things that were a problem.

Plus it might have made her cut off contact with them

completely. (Are you sure they didn't try to talk to her? Maybe

that's part of why they you never had much to do with them

growing up?)

As much as we might want to change our nadas or get help for

them, that's not really in our power to do. It is almost

impossible to help people if they don't want to be helped.

People who don't believe they have a problem generally don't

want help to fix the problem they don't believe they have. I

think it is best to accept that our nadas are the way they are

and decide what to do without any false hope of anybody or

anything changing them.

At 01:25 PM 10/10/2012 M wrote:

>Hi all,

>A few weeks ago I headed out to my cousin's wedding. This was a

>family reunion of sorts as I hadn't seen everyone in about 8

>years when I was a teenager (everyone lives in carious parts of

>the country). My nada has a very large family (one of 8

>brothers and sisters). She was the only one of her brothers and

>sisters not to attend the wedding. Since the last time I had

>seen everyone, I had realized that my mother was " not ok " and

>definitely had BPD with maybe something else mixed in (a

>ex-boyfriend dr. of hers mentioned schizophrenia to me on the

>phone. I reached out to him- one of the few people I could

>think of that had been in her life.) After all the struggles I

>went through with her as a teenager and throughout college, I

>started reaching out to the family. Nada referred to herself as

>the " black sheep " of the family a few times to me. I didn't

>have too much of a relationship with her side of the family

>despite it being so large. I figured that now, knowing that she

>needed help, was the time to reach out. I reached out to two

>aunts and my grandmother. They all seemed almost indifferent to

>the whole thing. I was coming from them asking for help because

>I knew nada would not listen to me talk to her alone. Their

>responses were along the lines of " Encourage her to get help.

>Don't stop talking to her. Let her know you care. " After brief

>responses to my emails that was it. No one wanted to talk to

>her about it or have any kind of an intervention. One aunt

>privately talked to me about how my mother was always the odd

>one out, and as a child I always seemed like the adult in the

>relationship etc. etc. It hurt that the family knew what was

>going on (to an extent) and how she was but still never tried

>to intervene. I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt but it

>still stings a bit.

>I was hoping to have some discussions with the family about my

>mother and what was going on but it never happened. It felt

>like she was a dirty secret that no one wanted to get to close

>to BUT everyone still felt the need to encourage me to call her

>and say she was missed at the wedding. I resented the fact that

>they put the onus on me to call her. She is the one who has

>caused so much hurt and caused us to not have a relationship.

>They don't even know the tip of the iceberg of what has

>happened and dont seem to care to know. They dont know about

>the times I was literally homeless calling and leaving messages

>begging for her to call me and she didn't call back. I just let

>them all tell me what to do and stayed silent not trying to

>start drama with 10+ family members at once when my cousin is

>about to get married.

>Anyway, at the reunion I talked to my mother's childhood best

>friend. She told me that my mom was always trying to be the

>shining star and get praise and acknowledgement from her

>parents but ended up lost in the crowd of 8 kids. Apparently

>when I was a baby, nada went to visit her friend and was a ball

>of anxiety, worried about being a good mother. Friend said she

>was so worried about being a good mother she ended up being a

>bad mother. This was a huge insight into what made nada the way

>she is. It was almost a relief to know that she was genuinely

>concerned about being a good parent. I guess she just got lost

>along the way. Very lost. It makes me feel bad for her which I

>really haven't felt before. It's mostly been anger but now

>it's sadness and pity that she will never have a normal life.

--

Katrina

October 10, 2012

I have a question - what is it that you expect your uncle might

do at this point?

I've never attempted to get my other relatives involved in my

relationship with my nada. It doesn't seem fair to ask them to

get in the middle of a problem that isn't their problem and I

don't see what they could do any way. I have discussed my nada's

behavior with one of my uncles and gotten a different version of

what things were like when they were growing up. His version of

some things may not be a lot closer to the truth than my nada's

but what he has to say is quite different in some cases.

At 03:23 PM 10/10/2012 Nightsquirrel wrote:

>Ugh. If 7 aunts/uncles dumped it all back on you, there's no

>hope for me w/ my one uncle who acts removed and distant when

>nada rages, like it's not his problem and all should just

> " steer clear " .

>

> I can imagine you are hurt and annoyed w/ them. Sounds

> justified. Have others had similar experiences? Would be

> curious to hear more thoughts on this.

--

Katrina

October 10, 2012

Agreed on all counts. Chances are that when our generations were children that

there wasn't enough knowledge about bpd that an aunt or uncle could help a niece

or nephew.

However, last xmas I encouraged my bro to contact child protective services

regarding his ex's undeliably egregious behavior toward their 11 year old. Cps

knocking on her door got her attention.

Two years prior, she had threatened to call cops on me for " inappropriately

touching her son " . I know she'd do it as she put restraining order on my bro

when she didn't get her way on something. The courts threw it out but I'm not

interested in the time or expense of explaining myself.

Until my nephew is 18, ill be watching from sidelines and encouraging my bro to

protect his son from the abuse.

Katrina kk1raven@...> wrote:

>M,

>I'm sorry that your family didn't react the way you wanted them

>to. Dealing with family members can be hard, particularly when

>there have been issues in the past that prevented more contact.

>It may be that the family members you spoke to aren't willing to

>participate in any intervention because past experience tells

>them it won't accomplish anything good. Knowing that someone

>needs help is not at all the same as being able to help. They

>may also feel that what goes on between you and your nada is

>your business, not theirs. Even if they were interested in doing

>it, what makes you think that your nada would listen if you got

>some relatives that she is not on particularly good terms with

>to talk to her along with you? That sounds unrealistic to me.

>People with BPD generally perceive so-called " interventions " as

>a bunch of people ganging up on them. They feel attacked and

>even more hurt than usual which does nothing to make them want

>to change their behavior for the better. Most people with BPD

>are not going to admit they have a problem or get help no matter

>who talks to them. They just can't recognize that the problem is

>with them not with everyone else.

>

>My advice is that if you want a relationship with these

>relatives, do it without putting them in the middle of your

>relationship with your nada. They can't fix her any more than

>you can and asking to try is likely to drive a wedge between you

>and them.

>

>It might also help to consider what it is you think they could

>have done in the past. It hurts to think that people didn't care

>enough about you to do anything, but the truth may well be that

>they did care but either didn't have enough knowledge or weren't

>in a position to change things. Understanding that can go a

>long way towards healing the pain. If they knew about things

>that would officially be considered abuse or neglect they could

>have reported the situation to the local child protection

>authorities. The results of doing that may or may not have been

>an improvement. Nadas are good at hiding the really abusive

>behavior from others so they probably didn't know of anything of

>that sort anyway. If they didn't know of anything that would

>result in government intervention, there may not have been much

>they could do if they weren't living in the same area. Talking

>to her about how she treated you might well have made her more

>determined to continue doing the things that were a problem.

>Plus it might have made her cut off contact with them

>completely. (Are you sure they didn't try to talk to her? Maybe

>that's part of why they you never had much to do with them

>growing up?)

>

>As much as we might want to change our nadas or get help for

>them, that's not really in our power to do. It is almost

>impossible to help people if they don't want to be helped.

>People who don't believe they have a problem generally don't

>want help to fix the problem they don't believe they have. I

>think it is best to accept that our nadas are the way they are

>and decide what to do without any false hope of anybody or

>anything changing them.

>

>At 01:25 PM 10/10/2012 M wrote:

>>Hi all,

>>A few weeks ago I headed out to my cousin's wedding. This was a

>>family reunion of sorts as I hadn't seen everyone in about 8

>>years when I was a teenager (everyone lives in carious parts of

>>the country). My nada has a very large family (one of 8

>>brothers and sisters). She was the only one of her brothers and

>>sisters not to attend the wedding. Since the last time I had

>>seen everyone, I had realized that my mother was " not ok " and

>>definitely had BPD with maybe something else mixed in (a

>>ex-boyfriend dr. of hers mentioned schizophrenia to me on the

>>phone. I reached out to him- one of the few people I could

>>think of that had been in her life.) After all the struggles I

>>went through with her as a teenager and throughout college, I

>>started reaching out to the family. Nada referred to herself as

>>the " black sheep " of the family a few times to me. I didn't

>>have too much of a relationship with her side of the family

>>despite it being so large. I figured that now, knowing that she

>>needed help, was the time to reach out. I reached out to two

>>aunts and my grandmother. They all seemed almost indifferent to

>>the whole thing. I was coming from them asking for help because

>>I knew nada would not listen to me talk to her alone. Their

>>responses were along the lines of " Encourage her to get help.

>>Don't stop talking to her. Let her know you care. " After brief

>>responses to my emails that was it. No one wanted to talk to

>>her about it or have any kind of an intervention. One aunt

>>privately talked to me about how my mother was always the odd

>>one out, and as a child I always seemed like the adult in the

>>relationship etc. etc. It hurt that the family knew what was

>>going on (to an extent) and how she was but still never tried

>>to intervene. I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt but it

>>still stings a bit.

>>I was hoping to have some discussions with the family about my

>>mother and what was going on but it never happened. It felt

>>like she was a dirty secret that no one wanted to get to close

>>to BUT everyone still felt the need to encourage me to call her

>>and say she was missed at the wedding. I resented the fact that

>>they put the onus on me to call her. She is the one who has

>>caused so much hurt and caused us to not have a relationship.

>>They don't even know the tip of the iceberg of what has

>>happened and dont seem to care to know. They dont know about

>>the times I was literally homeless calling and leaving messages

>>begging for her to call me and she didn't call back. I just let

>>them all tell me what to do and stayed silent not trying to

>>start drama with 10+ family members at once when my cousin is

>>about to get married.

>>Anyway, at the reunion I talked to my mother's childhood best

>>friend. She told me that my mom was always trying to be the

>>shining star and get praise and acknowledgement from her

>>parents but ended up lost in the crowd of 8 kids. Apparently

>>when I was a baby, nada went to visit her friend and was a ball

>>of anxiety, worried about being a good mother. Friend said she

>>was so worried about being a good mother she ended up being a

>>bad mother. This was a huge insight into what made nada the way

>>she is. It was almost a relief to know that she was genuinely

>>concerned about being a good parent. I guess she just got lost

>>along the way. Very lost. It makes me feel bad for her which I

>>really haven't felt before. It's mostly been anger but now

>>it's sadness and pity that she will never have a normal life.

>

>--

>Katrina

>

October 10, 2012

That is terrible no one in your family was willing to at least stand behind

you! Unfortunately they probably know better because they don't want to

stick their hand in the viper bag! They know it will not turn out well.

Most people prefer to stand back when it comes to the problems of others,

but with close relatives it is shocking someone didn't step up. L

W

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of M

Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:25 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Family Reunion

Hi all,

A few weeks ago I headed out to my cousin's wedding. This was a family

reunion of sorts as I hadn't seen everyone in about 8 years when I was a

teenager (everyone lives in carious parts of the country). My nada has a

very large family (one of 8 brothers and sisters). She was the only one of

her brothers and sisters not to attend the wedding. Since the last time I

had seen everyone, I had realized that my mother was " not ok " and definitely

had BPD with maybe something else mixed in (a ex-boyfriend dr. of hers

mentioned schizophrenia to me on the phone. I reached out to him- one of the

few people I could think of that had been in her life.) After all the

struggles I went through with her as a teenager and throughout college, I

started reaching out to the family. Nada referred to herself as the " black

sheep " of the family a few times to me. I didn't have too much of a

relationship with her side of the family despite it being so large. I

figured that now, knowing that she needed help, was the time to reach out. I

reached out to two aunts and my grandmother. They all seemed almost

indifferent to the whole thing. I was coming from them asking for help

because I knew nada would not listen to me talk to her alone. Their

responses were along the lines of " Encourage her to get help. Don't stop

talking to her. Let her know you care. " After brief responses to my emails

that was it. No one wanted to talk to her about it or have any kind of an

intervention. One aunt privately talked to me about how my mother was always

the odd one out, and as a child I always seemed like the adult in the

relationship etc. etc. It hurt that the family knew what was going on (to an

extent) and how she was but still never tried to intervene. I gave everyone

the benefit of the doubt but it still stings a bit.

I was hoping to have some discussions with the family about my mother and

what was going on but it never happened. It felt like she was a dirty secret

that no one wanted to get to close to BUT everyone still felt the need to

encourage me to call her and say she was missed at the wedding. I resented

the fact that they put the onus on me to call her. She is the one who has

caused so much hurt and caused us to not have a relationship. They don't

even know the tip of the iceberg of what has happened and dont seem to care

to know. They dont know about the times I was literally homeless calling and

leaving messages begging for her to call me and she didn't call back. I just

let them all tell me what to do and stayed silent not trying to start drama

with 10+ family members at once when my cousin is about to get married.

Anyway, at the reunion I talked to my mother's childhood best friend. She

told me that my mom was always trying to be the shining star and get praise

and acknowledgement from her parents but ended up lost in the crowd of 8

kids. Apparently when I was a baby, nada went to visit her friend and was a

ball of anxiety, worried about being a good mother. Friend said she was so

worried about being a good mother she ended up being a bad mother. This was

a huge insight into what made nada the way she is. It was almost a relief to

know that she was genuinely concerned about being a good parent. I guess she

just got lost along the way. Very lost. It makes me feel bad for her which I

really haven't felt before. It's mostly been anger but now it's sadness and

pity that she will never have a normal life.

October 10, 2012

Wow! Some people will do the nastiest things to get their way. Good thing the

incident two years ago didnâ€™t go anywere. . . .

W