Re: weird never-ending situation

[Guest guest]

My advice? Let go of the idea that maintaining sanity will satisfy others in

your family. Do what you need to do. They can do what they need to do when

they are ready.

It is really not realistic for them to expect you to change how you act so they

can feel more comfortable. They are responsible for managing their own feelings

about the situation--not you. Let them.

Take care,

Ashana

[Guest guest]

That's a tough one.

I'm gathering from your post that you want to attend this year's family holiday

gatherings instead making other plans for holiday outings for yourself or

perhaps with a friend or two. (A trip to Bermuda, or to a ski resort, perhaps?)

So, if you are going to attend this year's family gatherings (if you are still

invited even if you don't " make up " with fada) then I suggest (a) using the

" Medium Chill " technique with your fada while you are there, and if at all

possible ( arriving a bit late and leaving a bit early, © staying at a

nearby hotel instead of in your parents' home, and (d) bringing a good friend

with you.

" Medium Chill " is just being tepidly pleasant, neutral and NOT responding to any

covert, passive-aggressive attempts to draw you into a argument. MC is meant to

be a temporary solution to having to spend time with unpleasant, difficult

people. You can read the short article about Medium Chill at post #132289 of

this Group.

If you have time before the holidays, I suggest also reading " Toxic Parents " or

" Surviving A Borderline Parent " for more information and insights on how to set,

maintain and enforce protective boundaries for yourself.

From my point of view, there is no shame in " making nice " with your fada just in

order to have a more pleasant get-together with your mother and other family

members over the holidays. He truly is acting like a baby, a spoiled toddler,

and that is unfortunate, but he's got all the cards, so to speak.

Only you can determine if an apology as a temporary band-aid is a possible

solution that you can tolerate. The bad news is that it may not work, and your

fada may still look for opportunities to " get even " with you even though you

placate him by apologizing (even if you've done nothing wrong to apologize for.)

It depends on whether your fada has a lot of narcissistic or antisocial traits;

if so he may feel justified in " getting you back " by attempting to humiliate or

shame you in front of the family, even after you've apologized. Only you can

speculate on that possibility, based on his past behaviors.

You can still be self-protective and enforce your boundaries while you are

visiting them, if you wish to. I personally would leave even in the middle of

Thanksgiving dinner if fada begins an open, blatantly hostile verbal attack.

No way would I tolerate that. I'd just excuse myself politely and leave without

responding to the attack in any way. " Its been so nice seeing you again mother,

sister, etc., thank you for inviting me, but I think I will leave now. Talk to

you later. " But that's me; you have to decide what feels best to you. You're

the one living in your skin. You know what you can and can't tolerate.

Keep in mind that boundaries are NOT about telling your bpd parent what to do or

how to act. Boundaries are for YOU; that is a subtle but meaningful, important

difference. A boundary is deciding which behaviors of fada's you will and will

not tolerate, and deciding what you will do when your fada behaves badly and

violates your boundary.

I hope that helps.

-Annie

>

> this one is just bizarre and I'm at a loss:

>

> Back in May, I texted fada that I couldn't return his call that night because

I was out for an event, and told him I'd call the next day. He left me tons of

voicemails that night, to which I texted in the morning that I'm not going to

tolerate this behavior from him if we're going to have a relationship (oops?).

>

> I called that night, as promised. Talked to mom first, then she handed the

phone to fada. In the background, he screams loud enough for me to hear " I don't

want to talk, I'm BUSY!! "

>

> This happened multiple times after when I called home.

>

> So, I gave up trying to talk to him on the phone.

>

> I start getting these emails from him outlining our entire relationship,

saying how I stabbed him in the back and screwed up the relationship at every

point. He wants an explanation on how I hurt him so much. I reply with something

like " it's not what I intended, I can't have a relationship w you if everything

we talk about is negative, I hope we can work on this. " To which, I get

completely ignored and berated for something I did 5 years ago. I reply with a

similar line, broken record. He continues with his berating emails.

>

> I eventually stopped responding and so did he. At this point, it's been 6

months since we've talked to each other. My entire extended family knows about

the situation, how since he hasn't talked to me, because he MISSES ME SO MUCH,

he can barely sleep or eat or focus at work. The whole family is tired of this

situation and just wants me to give in and call him.

>

> It's been six months, and giving in now would mean that if this situation

happened again, I'd fall and take the blame for him, and repeat.. but it's a

stalemate, he's unwilling to admit he's screwed up, and I'm the more sane one

who everyone is expecting to just give in and end this situation.

>

> Thanksgiving and Christmas are coming up,on top of that, and I really don't

know what to do. I wish he could get help, I wish he could admit to his

mistakes, but he's waiting for me to jump in and save him, as the child.

>

> Advice please??

>

[Guest guest]

What do YOU want? He's not going to change. Your responses to

his negative e-mail messages sound like good boundary

maintenance. You aren't giving in when he violates your

boundaries. If this has been going on for months, it is obvious

that what you're doing isn't going to move anything forward

though. So you have to decide whether it is more important to

enforce your boundaries as you are doing or more important to

talk to him. If you give in and talk to him despite his

violations of your boundaries, you can't expect that he will act

differently than he has acted in the past.

My advice is to not let your extended family push you into

making a decision that you don't like. If he is having problems

sleeping, eating, and working, that's his problem and he should

be the one to take action to fix it. It isn't your

responsibility. If other family members are bothered by it, then

let them set their own boundaries where he's concerned. If YOU

want to change your boundaries to try to have more of a

relationship with him, do so for yourself, not because other

family members want you to.

At 12:56 PM 10/28/2012 newlife9871 wrote:

>this one is just bizarre and I'm at a loss:

>

>Back in May, I texted fada that I couldn't return his call

>that night because I was out for an event, and told him I'd

>call the next day. He left me tons of voicemails that night, to

>which I texted in the morning that I'm not going to tolerate

>this behavior from him if we're going to have a relationship

>(oops?).

>

>I called that night, as promised. Talked to mom first, then she

>handed the phone to fada. In the background, he screams loud

>enough for me to hear " I don't want to talk, I'm BUSY!! "

>

>This happened multiple times after when I called home.

>

>So, I gave up trying to talk to him on the phone.

>

>I start getting these emails from him outlining our entire

>relationship, saying how I stabbed him in the back and screwed

>up the relationship at every point. He wants an explanation on

>how I hurt him so much. I reply with something like " it's not

>what I intended, I can't have a relationship w you if

>everything we talk about is negative, I hope we can work on

>this. " To which, I get completely ignored and berated for

>something I did 5 years ago. I reply with a similar line,

>broken record. He continues with his berating emails.

>

>I eventually stopped responding and so did he. At this point,

>it's been 6 months since we've talked to each other. My entire

>extended family knows about the situation, how since he hasn't

>talked to me, because he MISSES ME SO MUCH, he can barely sleep

>or eat or focus at work. The whole family is tired of this

>situation and just wants me to give in and call him.

>

>It's been six months, and giving in now would mean that if this

>situation happened again, I'd fall and take the blame for him,

>and repeat.. but it's a stalemate, he's unwilling to admit he's

>screwed up, and I'm the more sane one who everyone is expecting

>to just give in and end this situation.

>

>Thanksgiving and Christmas are coming up,on top of that, and I

>really don't know what to do. I wish he could get help, I wish

>he could admit to his mistakes, but he's waiting for me to jump

>in and save him, as the child.

>

>Advice please??

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Oh mi gosh, isn't that the way it is. It's like all this weird behavior then

they want us (normal behavior) to apologize and come groveling back. Well NO

MORE.

I agree w Annie on going to the family function with a few coping mechanism in

place (med chill, friend, hotel, rent a car or have your own, etc.) I'd also

offer up that you just keep talking with your mom like nothing is going on w

him. Often I ignore poor behavior from my toddlers when they are 'performing' in

order to get my attention. If they don't get the desired effect, they change

their mode of attack. Which, I find is about the same for BPD people.

Another thing might be to mention to the flying monkey fam members that he was

to busy to take you calls, he must be having a rough time at work, he never

called you back, but when you talked to your mom the other day she said blah

blah blah...so it's a " lightly address it, redirect it, then change the subject "

approach. That might get the flying monkeys off your back, may be.

Another thing that I find sooo dysfunctional but works is to just call up and

start like nothing is wrong. Sometimes BPD ppl will play along and just move

forward when you've reached an impasse. And if he brings it up, just say you

didn't call to argue with him. Just wanted to say hi, so you'll let him go now

and call again next week. bye dad! And just move on to the next performance in

the circus that is our life.

Ugh, so much energy wasted =(

[Guest guest]

thanks so much for all your advice - -what I'm struggling with is falling and

taking the blame, calling him, and moving on from there without him recognizing

anything went wrong. I have not called for so long even though he is asserting

his power to WAIT for me to call (when he knows my number and could easily do

the same). but it's been so long, I don't know if it's worth continuing to play

this game or give in and keep setting limits for hopefully smaller issues from

this point forward.

>

> Oh mi gosh, isn't that the way it is. It's like all this weird behavior then

they want us (normal behavior) to apologize and come groveling back. Well NO

MORE.

> I agree w Annie on going to the family function with a few coping mechanism in

place (med chill, friend, hotel, rent a car or have your own, etc.) I'd also

offer up that you just keep talking with your mom like nothing is going on w

him. Often I ignore poor behavior from my toddlers when they are 'performing' in

order to get my attention. If they don't get the desired effect, they change

their mode of attack. Which, I find is about the same for BPD people.

> Another thing might be to mention to the flying monkey fam members that he was

to busy to take you calls, he must be having a rough time at work, he never

called you back, but when you talked to your mom the other day she said blah

blah blah...so it's a " lightly address it, redirect it, then change the subject "

approach. That might get the flying monkeys off your back, may be.

> Another thing that I find sooo dysfunctional but works is to just call up and

start like nothing is wrong. Sometimes BPD ppl will play along and just move

forward when you've reached an impasse. And if he brings it up, just say you

didn't call to argue with him. Just wanted to say hi, so you'll let him go now

and call again next week. bye dad! And just move on to the next performance in

the circus that is our life.

> Ugh, so much energy wasted =(

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe try making a comparison list; on a page make two columns. In the first

column list your " Reasons For " and in the other column list your " Reasons

Against " , for the issue that is bothering you. Sometimes that helps me.

So yours would be titled something like " If I call and apologize to my bpd fada

(even though I've done nothing to apologize for), then:

For:

(1) I'd be able to attend Thanksgiving Dinner and spend time with my other

family members

(2) I can still be assertive if I have to be; I can use Medium Chill or even

leave at any time if fada should verbally attack me.

(etc.)

Against:

(1) I'd feel like I was letting myself down / not being true to myself.

(2) I'd feel like I had taken several steps backward, away from my goal of not

caving in under family pressure to just put up with fada's abusive behaviors.

(etc.)

Sometimes, seeing the problem broken down into smaller bits on paper helps me

focus and work out how to deal with it more effectively; I'm a visual person / I

process information visually better than verbally.

I hope that helps.

-Annie

> >

> > Oh mi gosh, isn't that the way it is. It's like all this weird behavior then

they want us (normal behavior) to apologize and come groveling back. Well NO

MORE.

> > I agree w Annie on going to the family function with a few coping mechanism

in place (med chill, friend, hotel, rent a car or have your own, etc.) I'd also

offer up that you just keep talking with your mom like nothing is going on w

him. Often I ignore poor behavior from my toddlers when they are 'performing' in

order to get my attention. If they don't get the desired effect, they change

their mode of attack. Which, I find is about the same for BPD people.

> > Another thing might be to mention to the flying monkey fam members that he

was to busy to take you calls, he must be having a rough time at work, he never

called you back, but when you talked to your mom the other day she said blah

blah blah...so it's a " lightly address it, redirect it, then change the subject "

approach. That might get the flying monkeys off your back, may be.

> > Another thing that I find sooo dysfunctional but works is to just call up

and start like nothing is wrong. Sometimes BPD ppl will play along and just move

forward when you've reached an impasse. And if he brings it up, just say you

didn't call to argue with him. Just wanted to say hi, so you'll let him go now

and call again next week. bye dad! And just move on to the next performance in

the circus that is our life.

> > Ugh, so much energy wasted =(

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

very true. that's really helpful to take a step back and process it all. Tough

because most of our family has isolated from fada because of his behavior so,

being an only child, Tgiving is usually just him, me, and mom. He's also been

trying to ask me questions via my mom about why I've done stuff that's happened

months or years ago - - still holding revenge, and threatening to destroy my

room, my diploma, etc if I don't call. I don't have a car and parents live in

the middle of nowhere, and I'm too young to rent a car so staying elsewhere will

be tough. It's a good 5 hour ride to their place anyway so I don't know if I

could do a one-day thing. Maybe I could. I just feel so so stuck and guilty for

somehow causing this because...what else in the world would cause such an

extreme reaction if I didn't contribute to it, even a little!? It's just messy

and really really weird.

> > >

> > > Oh mi gosh, isn't that the way it is. It's like all this weird behavior

then they want us (normal behavior) to apologize and come groveling back. Well

NO MORE.

> > > I agree w Annie on going to the family function with a few coping

mechanism in place (med chill, friend, hotel, rent a car or have your own, etc.)

I'd also offer up that you just keep talking with your mom like nothing is going

on w him. Often I ignore poor behavior from my toddlers when they are

'performing' in order to get my attention. If they don't get the desired effect,

they change their mode of attack. Which, I find is about the same for BPD

people.

> > > Another thing might be to mention to the flying monkey fam members that he

was to busy to take you calls, he must be having a rough time at work, he never

called you back, but when you talked to your mom the other day she said blah

blah blah...so it's a " lightly address it, redirect it, then change the subject "

approach. That might get the flying monkeys off your back, may be.

> > > Another thing that I find sooo dysfunctional but works is to just call up

and start like nothing is wrong. Sometimes BPD ppl will play along and just move

forward when you've reached an impasse. And if he brings it up, just say you

didn't call to argue with him. Just wanted to say hi, so you'll let him go now

and call again next week. bye dad! And just move on to the next performance in

the circus that is our life.

> > > Ugh, so much energy wasted =(

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You are the only one who can decide what will work for you or what is tolerable

for you.

I'm probably your parent's age, so, I'm coming from a whole different phase of

life perspective than where you are at, so take that into account.

About two years ago, when I was in No Contact with my mother ( " nada " ), my Sister

asked me if I would come to visit and attend her son's graduation. I very much

wanted to see my Sister and my Nephew, so I agreed to attend even though it

meant spending about two days with our bpd/npd mother in attendance as well.

The graduation was not in their home town, so Sister and nada picked me up at

the airport and we drove together to the hotel in the town where the graduation

ceremony would be.

For whatever reason, nada had decided to be on her best behavior, and she only

got a little whiny and demanding a couple of times. Nada did manage to aim a

covert insult at me at one point, when we were sitting next to each other in the

audience, but instead of responding I just looked at her silently and blankly

until she looked away. I was calm, tepid, mildly pleasant (I spoke with nada,

I was polite) but... boring; I was doing " Medium Chill. " MC got me through that

encounter.

I had been dreading the trip in part, thinking that my nada was going to have a

melt-down or a screaming rage at me, but, it didn't happen. Sister even

arranged it so that my Nephew drove me back to their house in his car, while

Sister drove nada back to her apartment, so I could relax and not endure the

anxiety of another 3+ hour car ride with nada (who usually managed to save up

her rage/frustration/hurt and let it spew out when we were trapped in the car

with her.)

So, the point I'm making is that in my own case, I decided that it was important

to me to see my Sister and my Nephew, so much so that I was willing to risk

forced contact with my bpd/npd mother for a couple of days. *I made a choice.*

In retrospect, I'm glad I did choose to go. That was the last time I saw my

mother relatively unaffected by dementia, and she was mostly pleasant. The next

time I had contact with her, two years later, she was terminally ill, had

pretty severe dementia, was drugged up and I don't think she really knew it was

me visiting her. So, in a way, I got to say my last real " goodbye " to my

bpd/npd mother during that graduation visit.

So, I'm thinking that if you can write down your thoughts, your " for and

against " list, it will help you clarify your concerns and help you make your

choice of whether to go or not.

And you know what? Sometimes there isn't any good choice or best choice

available to you. Sometimes there are just bad options or worse options to

choose from. Sometimes life is like that. And, please don't feel that you are

obligated or expected to solve every one of your issues with your fada right

NOW. That's unrealistic. Whatever choice you do make, its not irrevocable nor

does it set a permanent precedent for all your future choices.

Its OK to make mistakes, and its OK to change your mind. My nada expected and

demanded that I should be " perfect " , but I learned that its just human to make

mistakes, that I have the right to change my mind sometimes, and its actually a

form of cruelty to demand that someone be " perfect. " Ants and other creatures

are perfectly adapted to their environment, but I much prefer being an

imperfect human being.

I hope that helps.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > Oh mi gosh, isn't that the way it is. It's like all this weird behavior

then they want us (normal behavior) to apologize and come groveling back. Well

NO MORE.

> > > > I agree w Annie on going to the family function with a few coping

mechanism in place (med chill, friend, hotel, rent a car or have your own, etc.)

I'd also offer up that you just keep talking with your mom like nothing is going

on w him. Often I ignore poor behavior from my toddlers when they are

'performing' in order to get my attention. If they don't get the desired effect,

they change their mode of attack. Which, I find is about the same for BPD

people.

> > > > Another thing might be to mention to the flying monkey fam members that

he was to busy to take you calls, he must be having a rough time at work, he

never called you back, but when you talked to your mom the other day she said

blah blah blah...so it's a " lightly address it, redirect it, then change the

subject " approach. That might get the flying monkeys off your back, may be.

> > > > Another thing that I find sooo dysfunctional but works is to just call

up and start like nothing is wrong. Sometimes BPD ppl will play along and just

move forward when you've reached an impasse. And if he brings it up, just say

you didn't call to argue with him. Just wanted to say hi, so you'll let him go

now and call again next week. bye dad! And just move on to the next performance

in the circus that is our life.

> > > > Ugh, so much energy wasted =(

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

OH WOW, so I change my vote for what you might do =)....

Meet them somewhere closer to town, where a cab can pick you up. Meet on neutral

territory. If I were in your shoes, NO WAY would I go back and be isolated and

trapped there alone. Make reservations somewhere, excuses can be that it's

easier for mom, more time to visit uninterrupted, relaxed, no cleaning house,

some thing new and fun. blah blah blah. But I would support you completely in

NOT GOING BACK.

> > > >

> > > > Oh mi gosh, isn't that the way it is. It's like all this weird behavior

then they want us (normal behavior) to apologize and come groveling back. Well

NO MORE.

> > > > I agree w Annie on going to the family function with a few coping

mechanism in place (med chill, friend, hotel, rent a car or have your own, etc.)

I'd also offer up that you just keep talking with your mom like nothing is going

on w him. Often I ignore poor behavior from my toddlers when they are

'performing' in order to get my attention. If they don't get the desired effect,

they change their mode of attack. Which, I find is about the same for BPD

people.

> > > > Another thing might be to mention to the flying monkey fam members that

he was to busy to take you calls, he must be having a rough time at work, he

never called you back, but when you talked to your mom the other day she said

blah blah blah...so it's a " lightly address it, redirect it, then change the

subject " approach. That might get the flying monkeys off your back, may be.

> > > > Another thing that I find sooo dysfunctional but works is to just call

up and start like nothing is wrong. Sometimes BPD ppl will play along and just

move forward when you've reached an impasse. And if he brings it up, just say

you didn't call to argue with him. Just wanted to say hi, so you'll let him go

now and call again next week. bye dad! And just move on to the next performance

in the circus that is our life.

> > > > Ugh, so much energy wasted =(

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What I hoped to convey in my earlier post is:

Borderline pd is an actual, real, and sometimes severe mental illness. It's not

just someone being " difficult " , it involves their brain being unable to

perceive, assess or process incoming information properly (cognitive distortion)

particularly if the incoming information is loaded with emotional content, it

involves an inability to regulate emotions (poor executive function resulting in

rapid and extreme mood swings and inappropriate, extreme anger). Bpd can

include a lack of ability to feel empathy or compassion for others (according to

the DSM-V) and it can even involve temporary (transient) breaks with reality

such as increased paranoia, delusional ideation and dissociative episodes when

the bpd individual is under emotional stress.

You did not cause your father to become mentally ill,

You can't change him,

You can't cure him.

The only real power that we have is over our own self, our own behaviors and our

own words.

So, IF you feel that you have behaved badly, then own it, apologize if you feel

that is the right thing to do, and move on from that point emotionally. But

even IF you feel you have done/said some wrong things or made some bad choices,

that STILL does not obligate you to passively accept being emotionally abused or

mistreated by your bpd father.

If you feel that a Thanksgiving visit with your parents is only going to be a

nightmare of unendurable emotional abuse for you, then I personally don't think

its a good idea to go.

However, if you feel that if you do not go you will eat yourself alive with

guilt and regret, then, that's not a good option either.

But you have the power to overcome your misplaced, inappropriate, undeserved

feelings of guilt because you are a rational human being. You can do this by

seeking therapy for yourself, you can read books about managing relationships

with toxic parents, and you can do other things that show caring or compassion

for your parents without subjecting yourself to their abuse.

You can love them from a safe distance.

Just more food for thought. I hope that helps.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > Oh mi gosh, isn't that the way it is. It's like all this weird behavior

then they want us (normal behavior) to apologize and come groveling back. Well

NO MORE.

> > > > I agree w Annie on going to the family function with a few coping

mechanism in place (med chill, friend, hotel, rent a car or have your own, etc.)

I'd also offer up that you just keep talking with your mom like nothing is going

on w him. Often I ignore poor behavior from my toddlers when they are

'performing' in order to get my attention. If they don't get the desired effect,

they change their mode of attack. Which, I find is about the same for BPD

people.

> > > > Another thing might be to mention to the flying monkey fam members that

he was to busy to take you calls, he must be having a rough time at work, he

never called you back, but when you talked to your mom the other day she said

blah blah blah...so it's a " lightly address it, redirect it, then change the

subject " approach. That might get the flying monkeys off your back, may be.

> > > > Another thing that I find sooo dysfunctional but works is to just call

up and start like nothing is wrong. Sometimes BPD ppl will play along and just

move forward when you've reached an impasse. And if he brings it up, just say

you didn't call to argue with him. Just wanted to say hi, so you'll let him go

now and call again next week. bye dad! And just move on to the next performance

in the circus that is our life.

> > > > Ugh, so much energy wasted =(

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, I think I'm your sister!

Just kidding, but that sounds exactly like my fada. The last time we had a

" flare-up " , he sent me multiple texts detailing how disappointed he was in me,

and left multiple voice mails on my phone saying things like, " See, I do call

you and you never answer " , even when I've told him repeatedly that I cannot

answer the phone at those particular times that he's calling (at work). Every

time I call him back, he doesn't answer, and pretends that I never called, even

if I leave a message.

Until the situation was " sorted out " , I tried to call him about once every 1-2

weeks and left a message that was upbeat and along the lines of " Sorry I missed

you, talk to you later " . I refused to reference anything that was going on via

voicemail.

I don't know how it works with your fada, but I've never had to actually

apologize for any of it. Whenever we did finally talk (he finally decided to

answer his phone), I just explained (again) that I was at work when he called,

and if he wants to get in touch with me, he'd have to call at a different time.

I then refused to get into an arguing match with him over whose turn it was to

call whom.

That being said, I did extend a peace offering by asking for his famous apple

pie recipe - he's very proud of his cooking. He said he'd send it to me, and

it's been about a month since then with NC.

I've found it useful in the past to " play dumb " . If you get on the phone with

him, and he demands an apology, say something like, " I'm sorry, it's been so

long since we've gotten to talk, I don't remember what you're upset about. "

That gives him the chance to either drop it, refuse to talk about it because you

must " already know " what the problem is, or be able to list out his grievances.

Depending on if he stays civil or not, you can continue the conversation or end

it.

As far as family pressure is concerned ... if you start making an effort to call

occasionally, even (or especially) if he never answers, you can say to them that

you've been trying to get in touch with your fada, but he's not been answering.

That gets the pressure off of you. It's not your fault if he doesn't answer his

phone.

Sorry for the long message - this just really reminded me of my family.

>

> this one is just bizarre and I'm at a loss:

>

> Back in May, I texted fada that I couldn't return his call that night because

I was out for an event, and told him I'd call the next day. He left me tons of

voicemails that night, to which I texted in the morning that I'm not going to

tolerate this behavior from him if we're going to have a relationship (oops?).

>

> I called that night, as promised. Talked to mom first, then she handed the

phone to fada. In the background, he screams loud enough for me to hear " I don't

want to talk, I'm BUSY!! "

>

> This happened multiple times after when I called home.

>

> So, I gave up trying to talk to him on the phone.

>

> I start getting these emails from him outlining our entire relationship,

saying how I stabbed him in the back and screwed up the relationship at every

point. He wants an explanation on how I hurt him so much. I reply with something

like " it's not what I intended, I can't have a relationship w you if everything

we talk about is negative, I hope we can work on this. " To which, I get

completely ignored and berated for something I did 5 years ago. I reply with a

similar line, broken record. He continues with his berating emails.

>

> I eventually stopped responding and so did he. At this point, it's been 6

months since we've talked to each other. My entire extended family knows about

the situation, how since he hasn't talked to me, because he MISSES ME SO MUCH,

he can barely sleep or eat or focus at work. The whole family is tired of this

situation and just wants me to give in and call him.

>

> It's been six months, and giving in now would mean that if this situation

happened again, I'd fall and take the blame for him, and repeat.. but it's a

stalemate, he's unwilling to admit he's screwed up, and I'm the more sane one

who everyone is expecting to just give in and end this situation.

>

> Thanksgiving and Christmas are coming up,on top of that, and I really don't

know what to do. I wish he could get help, I wish he could admit to his

mistakes, but he's waiting for me to jump in and save him, as the child.

>

> Advice please??

>

[Guest guest]

Dear NewLife,

Regarding the give and take with phone calls--one thing that has helped members

in the past with this situation, is to have a set schedule of communication and

stick to it. You could pick any time or number of calls/emails--whatever you

feel comfortable with or capable of doing. For example, you could make a

commitment to call him every Monday at 7 pm. Every Sunday at 11am...whatever

sounds reasonable to you. Then, you could stick to it (but you would have to

stick to it religiously). If you stick to it, and call at the same time every

week, whether or not he answers, then he can't accuse you of not trying or not

being available. He will try of course, but you will know it's not rational.

I think that it's really important to understand that borderlines (and

narcissists) just do not speak the same *language as non-Cluster Bs. It may

sound very cold to the unaccompanied reader, but the truth is that you just

cannot take what they say seriously. Their goal is usually going to be to hurt

you or force your hand in some way; and what they say is going to be a tool in

trying to get what they want. It is not communication in the literal sense of

the language. With borderlines a good way to tell what they are communicating

is to guage what you FEEL after they speak. Do you feel anxious, pressured,

manipulated? Threatened--like if you don't do what he wants, when he wants, he

will take away the financial support for your schooling? Then *that is what he

communicated, and it has nothing to do with whether you answered the phone.

--Charlie

>

> this one is just bizarre and I'm at a loss:

>

> Back in May, I texted fada that I couldn't return his call that night because

I was out for an event, and told him I'd call the next day. He left me tons of

voicemails that night, to which I texted in the morning that I'm not going to

tolerate this behavior from him if we're going to have a relationship (oops?).

>

> I called that night, as promised. Talked to mom first, then she handed the

phone to fada. In the background, he screams loud enough for me to hear " I don't

want to talk, I'm BUSY!! "

>

> This happened multiple times after when I called home.

>

> So, I gave up trying to talk to him on the phone.

>

> I start getting these emails from him outlining our entire relationship,

saying how I stabbed him in the back and screwed up the relationship at every

point. He wants an explanation on how I hurt him so much. I reply with something

like " it's not what I intended, I can't have a relationship w you if everything

we talk about is negative, I hope we can work on this. " To which, I get

completely ignored and berated for something I did 5 years ago. I reply with a

similar line, broken record. He continues with his berating emails.

>

> I eventually stopped responding and so did he. At this point, it's been 6

months since we've talked to each other. My entire extended family knows about

the situation, how since he hasn't talked to me, because he MISSES ME SO MUCH,

he can barely sleep or eat or focus at work. The whole family is tired of this

situation and just wants me to give in and call him.

>

> It's been six months, and giving in now would mean that if this situation

happened again, I'd fall and take the blame for him, and repeat.. but it's a

stalemate, he's unwilling to admit he's screwed up, and I'm the more sane one

who everyone is expecting to just give in and end this situation.

>

> Thanksgiving and Christmas are coming up,on top of that, and I really don't

know what to do. I wish he could get help, I wish he could admit to his

mistakes, but he's waiting for me to jump in and save him, as the child.

>

> Advice please??

>

[Guest guest]

You say you feel guilty for somehow causing the situation

because " what else in the world would cause such an extreme

reaction " . The answer to that is simple - BPD. People who have

BPD don't need any other cause to explode, get angry, seek

revenge, manipulate people, etc. Their brains don't work the

same way other people's brains work. It isn't necessarily your

fault that he is doing what he is doing. Even if you did say

something to set him off, his reaction is a totally

inappropriate reaction. Please don't feel guilty unless you

really did something that normal people would consider wrong. It

isn't your fault that he has BPD. There is no reason to feel

guilt for things that are beyond your control.

At 06:11 PM 10/29/2012 newlife9871 wrote:

>very true. that's really helpful to take a step back and

>process it all. Tough because most of our family has isolated

>from fada because of his behavior so, being an only child,

>Tgiving is usually just him, me, and mom. He's also been trying

>to ask me questions via my mom about why I've done stuff that's

>happened months or years ago - - still holding revenge, and

>threatening to destroy my room, my diploma, etc if I don't

>call. I don't have a car and parents live in the middle of

>nowhere, and I'm too young to rent a car so staying elsewhere

>will be tough. It's a good 5 hour ride to their place anyway so

>I don't know if I could do a one-day thing. Maybe I could. I

>just feel so so stuck and guilty for somehow causing this

>because...what else in the world would cause such an extreme

>reaction if I didn't contribute to it, even a little!? It's

>just messy and really really weird.

--

Katrina