Re: quite long story about new friend and Sandy, triggering nada-rea

[Guest guest]

Thanks Millicent, for your insight.

If you come across that article, and there is a link to it, I am open.

I hope you give yourself full credit each time you go your library meeting.

Having courage to face those old tapes from the past and replace them with

positive messages is something to be proud of.

Your sharing the disapproval from your childhood, is helpful for me to reflect

on.

My mom frequently disapproved of me, yet affirmed me in ways that helped me to

become the person I am. In other ways, many times I did not find her feedback

helpful. Her affirming me got me hooked on intermittent random feedback.

I think this is why I was triggered by this friend, because out of one side of

her mouth she was telling me I am a good person. And she values my honesty,

etc. On the other side, there were all these things she needed and didn't like,

and wouldn't I just stop talking long enough so she could spill them out on the

sidewalk between us.

I need to remember, like you said, C, that this person was doing my inventory.

Yes, it helped to read those words, which I need to validate. I dismissed it,

largely because this person is new to program. She also is not at a place of

self-reflection, only identifying all the things that are wrong.... I did not

want to use these easy phrases in thinking about her. But I need to. Terms like

this help those of us who suffer at other's hands, to draw boundaries.

Interestingly I have used the concept with my nada. " Mom, that matter is between

me and God, " " which is a different way of putting it. (My nada at one point

criticized my sexual life prior to my marriage, as if she knew anything about my

sex life.)

As regards my new friend: A few days later, I shared with her in a very

neutral, enthusiastic and kind way, to help both of us, by telling her I sensed

we had projection going on, but this person did not even know what I meant.

I think she is still waiting for me to share insights from our misfired

conversation.

There is is a part of me that wants to go back and be sure she and I didn't just

have a bad day. I know for sure I was not having a bad day until our interaction

happened. So am sure it is not me. But now that I am past the upset, I want to

forgive and forget, just like I had to in order to live through my childhood.

Those damned brownies ended up being a Godsend for me, because I realized, a

" normal " friend would have been flexible and said, sure, you need to make

brownies, I will hang out with you. Instead, she could not focus on anything

but her problem, which, by the time we met, had suddenly become ME. YIKES!

To find out I am someone's problem, when I have been giving my experience,

strength and hope, and caring the best I could (and with good boundaries to my

time, for the most part).... is so out of line.

I was doing boundaries, and this friend was criticizing me for them. She was

also criticizing me, when I had actually thought of including her in the plan to

make brownies, because it has seemed such a NICE idea to invite her over, and

feed us both lunch, while sharing a bit of story about what the brownies were

for, so as to have balance in our conversation.

Alas, I think little Vickie no longer wants to invite this person to my home, to

try out that experiment! Litttle Vickie, realizes that this new friend is into

analyzing friends. I am not.

One thing I do know is that I could use some work in listening skills, and learn

not to respond to others wants and needs, by reacting defensively. I could do

this with my friend, but what happened last week was so confusing for me, and

she also is defensive. I am frankly afraid to do more disclosure with her, for

fear that we will become enmeshed.

As regards enmeshment, in dealing with nadamy whole life, I've learned to listen

to her and be quiet. If I asked her questions, she would attack me if I got

interested in her stuff and tried to have a normal conversation with her.

Still, with my nada, my ability to question her assumptions (with a sense of

humor) has helped me detach from nada, and not get so angry when it seems like

she is screwing with my head. Actually, nada is only screwing with her own head

these days, because I have learned not to take her personally. With my nada,

unlike this friend, I don't share personal stuff, because it will come back at

me from out in left field.

Big fear of mine last week, was that I might simply be seeing this new friend

through the unfair filter of my mom. And I think this friend is so savvy, that

if I tell her about this, she will decide that everything I have to say our

interactions, will be untrustworthy, because of my issues with my mom.

Confiding in this friend, might just set me up to be part of my friend's psycho

drama. Just in the same way, sharing personal stuff shared with nada would

almost always end up being used to judge me... or she would worry it to death.

Just seeing these thoughts in print, has me realizing that I don't perceive

myself as being safe with this friend.

After she had this altercation with me, she apologized and felt awful. But she

is looking to me for insight into what happened. I don't think I can do it. It

frankly just feels too confusing to me. Oh and did I say that my friend also

thinks I use my mind too much?

Which means what, exactly?

[Guest guest]

Eliza and Seven,

I can relate to the feelings of not wanting to go to the library and to an

Alanon meeting for fear of " attracting " a person who is unbalanced.

I used to allow that to happen to me a lot when I was younger. I think this

experience with this new friend (if that is the right word for her--I think it

is NOT)... is a reminder to me that I am not immune to this dis-ease still.

I was open to this person when she approached me. She seemed in need of

support, but was earnest in dealing with her issues, with a good mind and

insight. I still think this is true.

What served me in the past was to take my relationships in such groups, slowly.

I would observe people a lot and decide who I was open to having a relationship

with. I would meet with different people to try out compatibilities. And I

have learned to be light and use humor and not be too available to folks that

struck me wrong.

This friend got " around " my usual boundaries. In part because I a newcomer to

my town and identified that. I think it was like I wore a target on my chest,

that I would be especially available. I also weathered our move pretty well, and

so likely my strengths drew her to me.

However, we unpacked our baggage pretty quickly and shared our issues.

Both of us. I WAS doing this from a position of strength. Because it was

Alanon... I did not think too much of this.

Now I have new data, from last week's interaction.

We all need people, I need to remember variety is key.... and making choices

about who I want to spend time with is a good thing. I still am hard on myself

when I reject friendships... and of course, that means occasionally people that

are not good for me, get to influence me longer than is healthy.

Thanks again to all who have given me food for reflection.

[Guest guest]

I stay in too long as well because I don't want to take action.

> Eliza and Seven,

>

> I can relate to the feelings of not wanting to go to the library and to an

Alanon meeting for fear of " attracting " a person who is unbalanced.

>

> I used to allow that to happen to me a lot when I was younger. I think this

experience with this new friend (if that is the right word for her--I think it

is NOT)... is a reminder to me that I am not immune to this dis-ease still.

>

> I was open to this person when she approached me. She seemed in need of

support, but was earnest in dealing with her issues, with a good mind and

insight. I still think this is true.

>

> What served me in the past was to take my relationships in such groups,

slowly. I would observe people a lot and decide who I was open to having a

relationship with. I would meet with different people to try out

compatibilities. And I have learned to be light and use humor and not be too

available to folks that struck me wrong.

>

> This friend got " around " my usual boundaries. In part because I a newcomer to

my town and identified that. I think it was like I wore a target on my chest,

that I would be especially available. I also weathered our move pretty well, and

so likely my strengths drew her to me.

>

> However, we unpacked our baggage pretty quickly and shared our issues.

>

> Both of us. I WAS doing this from a position of strength. Because it was

Alanon... I did not think too much of this.

>

> Now I have new data, from last week's interaction.

>

> We all need people, I need to remember variety is key.... and making choices

about who I want to spend time with is a good thing. I still am hard on myself

when I reject friendships... and of course, that means occasionally people that

are not good for me, get to influence me longer than is healthy.

>

> Thanks again to all who have given me food for reflection.

>

>

[Guest guest]

This friend seems to want to play " psychiatrist " . It was funny when you

said your nada is just messing with her own head. True! If I were in this

position which I have been MANY times before I'd fade away as graciously as

I could.

They get through my walls when they act like they want help and have some

awareness. It triggers the codependent rescuer. I hate to admit it but I

really do want to save them. Such a strong urge!

So they'll look up and me and thank me and approve of me more than anyone

else. (It never works.) How narcissistic is that! So that's how I veil my

narcissistic longings.

[Guest guest]

I'm a magnet for people w/ ADD. At least I've learned to recognize it even if it

is bittersweet to realize a new friend or business contact will be another

relationship to " manage " . Just easier to be alone sometimes. I like to think if

I use the alone time wisely, karma will lead me to healthy people. Am alone A

LOT still!!

" V.S. " smithvictoria@...> wrote:

>Eliza and Seven,

>

>I can relate to the feelings of not wanting to go to the library and to an

Alanon meeting for fear of " attracting " a person who is unbalanced.

>

>I used to allow that to happen to me a lot when I was younger. I think this

experience with this new friend (if that is the right word for her--I think it

is NOT)... is a reminder to me that I am not immune to this dis-ease still.

>

>I was open to this person when she approached me. She seemed in need of

support, but was earnest in dealing with her issues, with a good mind and

insight. I still think this is true.

>

>What served me in the past was to take my relationships in such groups, slowly.

I would observe people a lot and decide who I was open to having a relationship

with. I would meet with different people to try out compatibilities. And I

have learned to be light and use humor and not be too available to folks that

struck me wrong.

>

>This friend got " around " my usual boundaries. In part because I a newcomer to

my town and identified that. I think it was like I wore a target on my chest,

that I would be especially available. I also weathered our move pretty well, and

so likely my strengths drew her to me.

>

>However, we unpacked our baggage pretty quickly and shared our issues.

>

>Both of us. I WAS doing this from a position of strength. Because it was

Alanon... I did not think too much of this.

>

>Now I have new data, from last week's interaction.

>

>We all need people, I need to remember variety is key.... and making choices

about who I want to spend time with is a good thing. I still am hard on myself

when I reject friendships... and of course, that means occasionally people that

are not good for me, get to influence me longer than is healthy.

>

>Thanks again to all who have given me food for reflection.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks again for everyone who shared with me about this confusing issue.

I am getting back on track and this time I am NOT denying what was done to me,

by this friend in public.

I am respecting how I drew my boundaries. Annie, thanks for sharing your insight

too and the four responses.

Wow, I realize that in my past I have fawned on people in order to not " lose " a

relationship that was not working well.

I will keep this response in mind and be compassionate with mySELF if it come

up. I am a big girl now, and I don't want to give my power over to someone who

is acting out of narcissistic needs that I don't want to need.

Not being paid enough to do THAT job.

It kind of blows my mind too that this friend can't walk and talk at the same

time. I just know I can't sit down and analyze for very much time at ALL

anymore.

Guess it is my advancing maturity.

I am also blessed in that a person I CAN call a friend came by today and dropped

off a lot of twelve step literature to " seed " the lending library for THAT.

Some of the " outside literature " I now have includes the Boundaries book by

Cloud and Townsend (that you all mention from time to time), and quite

appropriately, Melodie Beattie's Codependent No More.

I didn't tell you all that my high needs (narcissistic?) person was planning to

" support " me in starting an EA meeting in our new hometown... That is another

story. I set boundaries there too, with her, and told her she had to want the

program for herself. That friendship and starting a meeting are separate

commitments. I was terrified to set that boundary but I did it!!!

I am planning to use the clear focus of our EA literature, particularly the

Steps, to help me.

I have loaned my Alanon ACQ. the main book for Emotions Anonymous book, and

when she's is done with it, I'll trade her out for Beattie's book.

If she seems to have difficulties, still, I plan to advise her to focus on

Alanon material as it is MUCH more specific about boundaries, and let the larger

fellowship of Alanon deal with her.

Thanks again for the validation of my hunches and your careful explanations in

your sharing, Annie.