Memories and confusion

[Guest guest]

I just need to jot down a couple memories and reflections from reading UTBM:

Recurring dreams about being physically abused (by my dad, who is non-BPD, or by

strangers) even though I never was. My siblings and I were all spanked when we

disobeyed, but, especially as the only girl, I was often spared the worst. I

have never understood these dreams but now they seem to actually make sense. I

remember in the past year sometime I had a dream I was walking through my

parents' house (my nada is also a hoarder, so this is scary enough on its own).

But as I turned a corner, my dad came out of nowhere and hit me on the head

really hard (this has never actually happened). I remember being almost

unconscious (in the dream), and he was hauling me away. Is this suppressed anger

at him for not protecting me from her? As if it I blame him for her abuse

because he didn't stand up to her? I don't have a lot of conscious anger for

him, mostly pity. I have fuzzy memories of being angry with him when I was

younger (I am in my 30s now), but mostly I was just sad, because I knew

(feelings are facts) that it was impossible to stand up to her anyway.

Hiding in my room during my nada's rages, especially fights with my " no-good "

brother. My older brothers both ran away several times, and I tried once, but I

was so enmeshed with my mother that I didn't get but a few miles away before I

called home. I never felt like I was the " all-good " child growing up. I got

yelled at, ignored, invalidated, too, but not nearly to the extent that they

did. I just learned quickly not to challenge her, to lay low, to stuff my

feelings (I often used food to do this, resulting in later problems with eating

disorder behavior). I was the inwardly rebellious child, though. I had hateful

thoughts, and I directed them at my brothers instead of her. I wished they would

just get along with her, appease her, instead of constantly " causing " fights.

I still don't know what to make of all this. I still question if I am not just

making this all up in my head, like maybe I'm the one with the problem and I'm

just blaming everyone else. But I also know that her sickness is probably the

reason I have so much self-doubt. The reason I never believe compliments, am

always afraid I'm going to be found out as an imposter, always have this feeling

in the pit of my stomach like something is terribly wrong, but that there must

be something wrong with me because I don't have any good reason to be so sad or

scared. I guess I realized that I do have a good reason, that I always sensed

that there was something wrong because it was, even though it wasn't

acknowledged.

PJ

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your post, PJ. I've actually been trying to figure out a lot

of memory related stuff myself.

My BPD mother is also a hoarder (not level 5, varied between 1-3 at any

given time), but a lot of what you said in your last paragraph is very

similar to how I feel.

I actually don't have many memories from childhood and even through high

school. It's like, until I actually moved out, my memories are very

sketchy...almost obscured under the layer of ice along with that pool of

molten rage. (I feel a bit over dramatic describing it like that, but it

really does feel like there's all this stuff sitting just beneath the

surface).

For the longest time, I've felt...numb/apathetic/etc - side effect from

trying not to trigger a rage? Not sure.

I've been having a lot of dreams about my parents lately too...seems like

they come in waves, but I don't remember many details.

Do you (to whoever) find you have clear memories of your childhood?

> **

>

>

> I just need to jot down a couple memories and reflections from reading

> UTBM:

>

> Recurring dreams about being physically abused (by my dad, who is non-BPD,

> or by strangers) even though I never was. My siblings and I were all

> spanked when we disobeyed, but, especially as the only girl, I was often

> spared the worst. I have never understood these dreams but now they seem to

> actually make sense. I remember in the past year sometime I had a dream I

> was walking through my parents' house (my nada is also a hoarder, so this

> is scary enough on its own). But as I turned a corner, my dad came out of

> nowhere and hit me on the head really hard (this has never actually

> happened). I remember being almost unconscious (in the dream), and he was

> hauling me away. Is this suppressed anger at him for not protecting me from

> her? As if it I blame him for her abuse because he didn't stand up to her?

> I don't have a lot of conscious anger for him, mostly pity. I have fuzzy

> memories of being angry with him when I was younger (I am in my 30s now),

> but mostly I was just sad, because I knew (feelings are facts) that it was

> impossible to stand up to her anyway.

>

> Hiding in my room during my nada's rages, especially fights with my

> " no-good " brother. My older brothers both ran away several times, and I

> tried once, but I was so enmeshed with my mother that I didn't get but a

> few miles away before I called home. I never felt like I was the " all-good "

> child growing up. I got yelled at, ignored, invalidated, too, but not

> nearly to the extent that they did. I just learned quickly not to challenge

> her, to lay low, to stuff my feelings (I often used food to do this,

> resulting in later problems with eating disorder behavior). I was the

> inwardly rebellious child, though. I had hateful thoughts, and I directed

> them at my brothers instead of her. I wished they would just get along with

> her, appease her, instead of constantly " causing " fights.

>

> I still don't know what to make of all this. I still question if I am not

> just making this all up in my head, like maybe I'm the one with the problem

> and I'm just blaming everyone else. But I also know that her sickness is

> probably the reason I have so much self-doubt. The reason I never believe

> compliments, am always afraid I'm going to be found out as an imposter,

> always have this feeling in the pit of my stomach like something is

> terribly wrong, but that there must be something wrong with me because I

> don't have any good reason to be so sad or scared. I guess I realized that

> I do have a good reason, that I always sensed that there was something

> wrong because it was, even though it wasn't acknowledged.

>

> PJ

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe your dream is something you saw happen to someone else. It's just as

damaging to witness abuse--especially if you are helpless to act to prevent or

stop it--as it is to experience it oneself. This is partly because we are wired

to put ourselves in someone else's shoes. It causes acute empathic distress to

watch someone suffer. Part of your trauma would have been being overwhelmed by

intense feelings you did not have the tools to manage and that were caused by

the very person you needed to help you cope and make sense of them.

I was much more overtly abused than my sister, and in some cases my sister

actively participated in my parents' abuse of me. I am convinced this was

terribly damaging to her. (She is bpd as well)

If our parents do something to a sibling, we know it could happen to us at any

moment. Blaming the victim is not an unusual response to this kind of trauma.

It allows us to feel safer to do this--that way, we can imagine it couldn't

happen to us and that we are less abused because we don't deserve it and not

because the abuser has simply chosen not to. If we accepted reality--that the

abuse is arbitrary and capricious, has nothing to do with justice or our

inherent worth, and we are in constant danger--we'd never be able to get through

the day.

Bpds and npds frequently do select children in the family who will be the " good "

ones and the " bad " ones. I think this is important to them to do in part because

it reduces the support siblings can give to one another. If you were the " good "

one and your brothers were the " bad " ones, you would then be isolated and then

be unable to turn to them for support. It made you more willing to capitulate

to her every whim.

The fact is that your policy of appeasement worked for you because your mother

chose to let it. Your brothers could not have escaped that way. Your mother

probably harped on how they could just behave themselves, and none of this would

happen, but that's not true. Your mother needed someone to enmesh with (you)

and someone to victimize (your brothers). The individuals could be switched out

to the other side, but the roles were required in her world.

The difficulty for the " good " child in these situations is usually that they

have been most deprived of the opportunity to develop their individual selves.

They are also left with traumatic memories that are puzzling and confusing

because they acted as witnesses and sometimes perpetrators, but not as victims.

It can be hard to understand how harmful this still is. It's a different legacy

than that of the children singled out for scapegoating in the family, but it's

equally traumatic and harmful.

I guess all I'm saying in a lot of words is that seeing your brothers abused

terrified and confused you, and at some level you knew that it could happen to

you.

Also, it WAS impossible for you to stand up to your mother. You were little and

vulnerable. It's not just a feeling; It was objective reality. Inappropriately

extending this belief to your father may have had to do with your psychological

development--when we are young, we don't fully understand that other people are

not us and are subject to different realities than we are. Or, it may be your

father articulated an attitude of helpless about your mother and you believed

what he said or implied--after all, he was your dad. He should know what he's

talking about.

Take care,

Ashana

[Guest guest]

You know, what you said made me remember that I used to have a job tutoring a

boy with some special challenges, and unfortunately it was a situation where

(divorced) mom was overwhelmed (this woman may very well have had some kind of

PD). She would yell at him and hit him in front of me and I finally had to just

say, look, maybe it's not my place to tell you how to raise your kid, but I

can't be involved with your family anymore because of this. I should have

reported her to CPS but I was too naive and messed up in my own childhood to not

understand that it is NEVER okay to hit your kid the way she did (or really at

all).

I seem to have a gift for seeking out unhealthy relationships, be it work, or

personal. I somehow miraculously ended up with a SO who is extremely caring,

stable, and independent.

Thanks for the response.

>

> Maybe your dream is something you saw happen to someone else. It's just as

damaging to witness abuse--especially if you are helpless to act to prevent or

stop it--as it is to experience it oneself. This is partly because we are wired

to put ourselves in someone else's shoes. It causes acute empathic distress to

watch someone suffer. Part of your trauma would have been being overwhelmed by

intense feelings you did not have the tools to manage and that were caused by

the very person you needed to help you cope and make sense of them.

>

> I was much more overtly abused than my sister, and in some cases my sister

actively participated in my parents' abuse of me. I am convinced this was

terribly damaging to her. (She is bpd as well)

>

> If our parents do something to a sibling, we know it could happen to us at any

moment. Blaming the victim is not an unusual response to this kind of trauma.

It allows us to feel safer to do this--that way, we can imagine it couldn't

happen to us and that we are less abused because we don't deserve it and not

because the abuser has simply chosen not to. If we accepted reality--that the

abuse is arbitrary and capricious, has nothing to do with justice or our

inherent worth, and we are in constant danger--we'd never be able to get through

the day.

>

> Bpds and npds frequently do select children in the family who will be the

" good " ones and the " bad " ones. I think this is important to them to do in part

because it reduces the support siblings can give to one another. If you were

the " good " one and your brothers were the " bad " ones, you would then be isolated

and then be unable to turn to them for support. It made you more willing to

capitulate to her every whim.

>

> The fact is that your policy of appeasement worked for you because your mother

chose to let it. Your brothers could not have escaped that way. Your mother

probably harped on how they could just behave themselves, and none of this would

happen, but that's not true. Your mother needed someone to enmesh with (you)

and someone to victimize (your brothers). The individuals could be switched out

to the other side, but the roles were required in her world.

>

> The difficulty for the " good " child in these situations is usually that they

have been most deprived of the opportunity to develop their individual selves.

They are also left with traumatic memories that are puzzling and confusing

because they acted as witnesses and sometimes perpetrators, but not as victims.

It can be hard to understand how harmful this still is. It's a different legacy

than that of the children singled out for scapegoating in the family, but it's

equally traumatic and harmful.

>

> I guess all I'm saying in a lot of words is that seeing your brothers abused

terrified and confused you, and at some level you knew that it could happen to

you.

>

> Also, it WAS impossible for you to stand up to your mother. You were little

and vulnerable. It's not just a feeling; It was objective reality.

Inappropriately extending this belief to your father may have had to do with

your psychological development--when we are young, we don't fully understand

that other people are not us and are subject to different realities than we are.

Or, it may be your father articulated an attitude of helpless about your mother

and you believed what he said or implied--after all, he was your dad. He should

know what he's talking about.

>

> Take care,

> Ashana

>