extreme isolation

November 14, 2012

Hi all,

I have been NC for about 5 years now, and I am beginning to struggle with some

pretty extreme lonliness issues. So many of you out there--in fact, almost all

of you--seem to have a spouse, children, or at least a sibling, to help you

survive life without nada. I do not. I have a promising career but I have as

yet been unable to take advantage of my skills because of crippling debt (lured

into it by financially abusive fada) but, more importantly, the crippling

depression caused by this severe isolation.

Especially as the holidays come about, it's a real problem for me. I am blessed

with some wonderful friends but unfortunately they are several hundred miles

away. I live in a mid-sized city where everyone my age (early 40s) seems to be

severely well settled into a 'family' life and does not even seem to be open to

new friendships, much less relationships.

My nada/fada were particularly abusive and threatening, almost cult-like, in

some pretty extreme ways, and to complicate things even more, I (suprise!)

unwittingly have an unpredictable ex-spouse of whom I am also geninuinely

afraid--in his case physically; in the FOO's, psychologically. My nada is

obsessed with being attractive to men and tends to gather around her kids' exes

as 'hers'--especially around the holidays. This has kept me for years now from

reaching out to other family members--but also the idea of being in touch with

anyone in the family is so closely connected to my parents that it's just not

psychologically possible right now. My work is always threatened, and this is a

very vulnerable time for my career--I can't be losing days and weeks

involuntarily because I am freaked out from a nada or flying monkey

communication.

I am in such severe debt (and paying it off, and consulting all the advisors

there are etc) that I can't even afford enough therapy, and I can't afford to

travel to see my good friends, and it's just a disaster. I am feeling really

discouraged right now. I can't believe, that so many years have passed, and I'm

not a child any more, and not even a young woman any more, and now everyone

around me is raising teenagers, and I am still sitting writing for hours in my

journal, or pouring over pennies trying to make ends meet, or talking to my

therapist the 30 minutes I CAN swing, or crying in the bathroom.

I would pay any price for freedom from nada and fada--and I am willing to pay

this one. But I am still grieving and sorrowful about it, and right now I am

feeling hopeless. I just don't see how I am going to get the strength to pull

myself out of this. For five years I've been CRAWLING forward, if moving

forward at all, and in the city where I live I've made no friends in three

years. I am a very sociable and friendly person--this is just one of those very

closed, suburban societies that really has no place for an almost middle-aged

single woman. And to top all that off, I DO want a family--I am a family

person, very much, and my best friends are a great substitute family--I just

can't get to them until I can afford to get the car fixed, and my own family,

just happens to be truly scary to me on every possible level.

I am just hoping that someone out there can relate or offer some words of

encouragement. Thank you!!

Charlotte

November 14, 2012

Charlotte,

I feel so sad for your situation. I can relate to it in the sense that

there's a lot of pain there. About the holidays: THEY ARE FAKE. They are

made up. It's just an idea that old character disordered people use to

control others and that businesses use to make more money. All this sadness

about something made up and in a sense not real (the pain is real) is such

a sad waste of everyone's emotion and energy. You know why I love Christmas

day? Then I don't have to hear about it for a while.

Anyway, not sure if this might help but are there adult classes or library

groups? Any kind of church/spiritual thing? Exercise thing? I spent a year

in Paris and it was soooooooooooooooooo lonely. Very few would talk to me

and it was awful.

There's a line: " follow your bliss " . I really try to do that. A lot of my

pleasure in life comes from keeping my anxiety down, telling myself that

I'm a wonderful person and I deserve the best and trying to be as close as

possible with my dogs. My dogs seem to enjoy the present, love easily,

they appreciate gentleness and rubs. Simple stuff.

Good luck, you are not alone. I hope you can enjoy yourself more.

November 14, 2012

Thank you so much Millicent for taking the time to reply. I'm a dog lover too!

I really am not a solitary person--it's just the lifestyle in which I happen to

find myself because of the severe mental illness (and subsequent danger to me)

that pervades my 'family'. My colleagues have no idea that I am in this

situation, I think. But I am in a TOUGH patch. So your kind words really

help--especially if I don't end up able to travel for the holiday. I reviewed

my Pete and realized that I am really more feeling the abandonment of

childhood (abandonment by my parents) as much as anything else. Still, there is

also the nature of us as humans--unless you were born to be a monk, there is

meant to be some level of intimate contact, whether it be a sister, a

sister-like friend, a child, a spouse, etc. For three years now, because of the

job I had to take to survive and be safe from FOO, I have had NONE of that.

And, it's piling up. It seems like a really high pile today, and, combined with

extremely limited resources, piles and piles of work and work communication that

I've procrastinated...it's knocking me over. It really is. So I really

appreciate the support.

>

> Charlotte,

>

> I feel so sad for your situation. I can relate to it in the sense that

> there's a lot of pain there. About the holidays: THEY ARE FAKE. They are

> made up. It's just an idea that old character disordered people use to

> control others and that businesses use to make more money. All this sadness

> about something made up and in a sense not real (the pain is real) is such

> a sad waste of everyone's emotion and energy. You know why I love Christmas

> day? Then I don't have to hear about it for a while.

>

> Anyway, not sure if this might help but are there adult classes or library

> groups? Any kind of church/spiritual thing? Exercise thing? I spent a year

> in Paris and it was soooooooooooooooooo lonely. Very few would talk to me

> and it was awful.

>

> There's a line: " follow your bliss " . I really try to do that. A lot of my

> pleasure in life comes from keeping my anxiety down, telling myself that

> I'm a wonderful person and I deserve the best and trying to be as close as

> possible with my dogs. My dogs seem to enjoy the present, love easily,

> they appreciate gentleness and rubs. Simple stuff.

>

> Good luck, you are not alone. I hope you can enjoy yourself more.

>

November 14, 2012

Charlotte,

Being NC doesn't have to mean being lonely. The world is full of

good and caring people. When you say that people where you are

don't seem to be open to new friendships, how are you going

about trying to make friends? Real friendship isn't something

that happens instantly. It takes some work. Many KOs end up with

distorted ideas of how friendship should work because our nadas

and fadas often become " best friends " with people they've just

met. Making real friends requires meeting people you have

something in common with then socializing with them gradually

until the friendship grows. If you want to make new friends, the

first step is to put yourself in a position to meet a bunch of

new people in a social environment. What kind of hobbies do you

enjoy? Have you looked for local clubs to join? If you like to

read, look for book clubs. If you like the outdoors look for a

hiking club, bird-watching club, bicycle club, etc. If you like

hand crafts, maybe you can find a knitting or sewing club. There

are gardening clubs, chess clubs, political and ethnic

organizations and numerous others to choose from. If you don't

have any hobbies currently, maybe you should consider taking up

something new. Many activities can be done without having to

spend much money. Another option is to volunteer. Hospitals,

homeless shelters, facilities for the elderly, libraries,

schools, parks and numerous charitable organizations all offer

volunteering opportunities. Volunteering may also allow you to

put some of your work skills to good use and helping other

people can make you feel better about yourself. Whatever you

decide to do, get out where you can meet people and form

continuing social relationships. Being engaged in an activity

together will give you something to talk to people about and act

as a starting point for getting to know others. As you get to

know the people better, some of them will turn into friends.

Also, make sure you aren't focusing on too narrow of a selection

of people as potential friends. Friends don't have to be in the

same age range. I have good friends who are both a lot younger

and a lot older than I am. People who are raising a family can

still make good friends too. You don't have to stick with single

people just because you're single. Good luck!

At 01:34 PM 11/14/2012 charlottehoneychurch wrote:

>Hi all,

>

>I have been NC for about 5 years now, and I am beginning to

>struggle with some pretty extreme lonliness issues. So many of

>you out there--in fact, almost all of you--seem to have a

>spouse, children, or at least a sibling, to help you survive

>life without nada. I do not. I have a promising career but I

>have as yet been unable to take advantage of my skills because

>of crippling debt (lured into it by financially abusive fada)

>but, more importantly, the crippling depression caused by this

>severe isolation.

>

>Especially as the holidays come about, it's a real problem for

>me. I am blessed with some wonderful friends but unfortunately

>they are several hundred miles away. I live in a mid-sized

>city where everyone my age (early 40s) seems to be severely

>well settled into a 'family' life and does not even seem to be

>open to new friendships, much less relationships.

>

>My nada/fada were particularly abusive and threatening, almost

>cult-like, in some pretty extreme ways, and to complicate

>things even more, I (suprise!) unwittingly have an

>unpredictable ex-spouse of whom I am also geninuinely

>afraid--in his case physically; in the FOO's,

>psychologically. My nada is obsessed with being attractive to

>men and tends to gather around her kids' exes as

>'hers'--especially around the holidays. This has kept me for

>years now from reaching out to other family members--but also

>the idea of being in touch with anyone in the family is so

>closely connected to my parents that it's just not

>psychologically possible right now. My work is always

>threatened, and this is a very vulnerable time

>

>I am in such severe debt (and paying it off, and consulting all

>the advisors there are etc) that I can't even afford enough

>therapy, and I can't afford to travel t for my career--I can't

>be losing days and weeks involuntarily because I am freaked out

>from a nada or flying monkey communication.o see my good

>friends, and it's just a disaster. I am feeling really

>discouraged right now. I can't believe, that so many years

>have passed, and I'm not a child any more, and not even a young

>woman any more, and now everyone around me is raising

>teenagers, and I am still sitting writing for hours in my

>journal, or pouring over pennies trying to make ends meet, or

>talking to my therapist the 30 minutes I CAN swing, or crying

>in the bathroom.

>

>I would pay any price for freedom from nada and fada--and I am

>willing to pay this one. But I am still grieving and sorrowful

>about it, and right now I am feeling hopeless. I just don't

>see how I am going to get the strength to pull myself out of

>this. For five years I've been CRAWLING forward, if moving

>forward at all, and in the city where I live I've made no

>friends in three years. I am a very sociable and friendly

>person--this is just one of those very closed, suburban

>societies that really has no place for an almost middle-aged

>single woman. And to top all that off, I DO want a family--I

>am a family person, very much, and my best friends are a great

>substitute family--I just can't get to them until I can afford

>to get the car fixed, and my own family, just happens to be

>truly scary to me on every possible level.

>

>I am just hoping that someone out there can relate or offer

>some words of encouragement. Thank you!!

>

>Charlotte

--

Katrina

November 14, 2012

We're here for you! I'm sure almost everyone here gets how you feel. I

suffer from that " emptiness " from child abandonment too. Good luck!

> **

>

> Charlotte,

> Being NC doesn't have to mean being lonely. The world is full of

> good and caring people. When you say that people where you are

> don't seem to be open to new friendships, how are you going

> about trying to make friends? Real friendship isn't something

> that happens instantly. It takes some work. Many KOs end up with

> distorted ideas of how friendship should work because our nadas

> and fadas often become " best friends " with people they've just

> met. Making real friends requires meeting people you have

> something in common with then socializing with them gradually

> until the friendship grows. If you want to make new friends, the

> first step is to put yourself in a position to meet a bunch of

> new people in a social environment. What kind of hobbies do you

> enjoy? Have you looked for local clubs to join? If you like to

> read, look for book clubs. If you like the outdoors look for a

> hiking club, bird-watching club, bicycle club, etc. If you like

> hand crafts, maybe you can find a knitting or sewing club. There

> are gardening clubs, chess clubs, political and ethnic

> organizations and numerous others to choose from. If you don't

> have any hobbies currently, maybe you should consider taking up

> something new. Many activities can be done without having to

> spend much money. Another option is to volunteer. Hospitals,

> homeless shelters, facilities for the elderly, libraries,

> schools, parks and numerous charitable organizations all offer

> volunteering opportunities. Volunteering may also allow you to

> put some of your work skills to good use and helping other

> people can make you feel better about yourself. Whatever you

> decide to do, get out where you can meet people and form

> continuing social relationships. Being engaged in an activity

> together will give you something to talk to people about and act

> as a starting point for getting to know others. As you get to

> know the people better, some of them will turn into friends.

> Also, make sure you aren't focusing on too narrow of a selection

> of people as potential friends. Friends don't have to be in the

> same age range. I have good friends who are both a lot younger

> and a lot older than I am. People who are raising a family can

> still make good friends too. You don't have to stick with single

> people just because you're single. Good luck!

>

> At 01:34 PM 11/14/2012 charlottehoneychurch wrote:

> >Hi all,

> >

> >I have been NC for about 5 years now, and I am beginning to

> >struggle with some pretty extreme lonliness issues. So many of

> >you out there--in fact, almost all of you--seem to have a

> >spouse, children, or at least a sibling, to help you survive

> >life without nada. I do not. I have a promising career but I

> >have as yet been unable to take advantage of my skills because

> >of crippling debt (lured into it by financially abusive fada)

> >but, more importantly, the crippling depression caused by this

> >severe isolation.

> >

> >Especially as the holidays come about, it's a real problem for

> >me. I am blessed with some wonderful friends but unfortunately

> >they are several hundred miles away. I live in a mid-sized

> >city where everyone my age (early 40s) seems to be severely

> >well settled into a 'family' life and does not even seem to be

> >open to new friendships, much less relationships.

> >

> >My nada/fada were particularly abusive and threatening, almost

> >cult-like, in some pretty extreme ways, and to complicate

> >things even more, I (suprise!) unwittingly have an

> >unpredictable ex-spouse of whom I am also geninuinely

> >afraid--in his case physically; in the FOO's,

> >psychologically. My nada is obsessed with being attractive to

> >men and tends to gather around her kids' exes as

> >'hers'--especially around the holidays. This has kept me for

> >years now from reaching out to other family members--but also

> >the idea of being in touch with anyone in the family is so

> >closely connected to my parents that it's just not

> >psychologically possible right now. My work is always

> >threatened, and this is a very vulnerable time

> >

> >I am in such severe debt (and paying it off, and consulting all

> >the advisors there are etc) that I can't even afford enough

> >therapy, and I can't afford to travel t for my career--I can't

> >be losing days and weeks involuntarily because I am freaked out

> >from a nada or flying monkey communication.o see my good

> >friends, and it's just a disaster. I am feeling really

> >discouraged right now. I can't believe, that so many years

> >have passed, and I'm not a child any more, and not even a young

> >woman any more, and now everyone around me is raising

> >teenagers, and I am still sitting writing for hours in my

> >journal, or pouring over pennies trying to make ends meet, or

> >talking to my therapist the 30 minutes I CAN swing, or crying

> >in the bathroom.

> >

> >I would pay any price for freedom from nada and fada--and I am

> >willing to pay this one. But I am still grieving and sorrowful

> >about it, and right now I am feeling hopeless. I just don't

> >see how I am going to get the strength to pull myself out of

> >this. For five years I've been CRAWLING forward, if moving

> >forward at all, and in the city where I live I've made no

> >friends in three years. I am a very sociable and friendly

> >person--this is just one of those very closed, suburban

> >societies that really has no place for an almost middle-aged

> >single woman. And to top all that off, I DO want a family--I

> >am a family person, very much, and my best friends are a great

> >substitute family--I just can't get to them until I can afford

> >to get the car fixed, and my own family, just happens to be

> >truly scary to me on every possible level.

> >

> >I am just hoping that someone out there can relate or offer

> >some words of encouragement. Thank you!!

> >

> >Charlotte

>

> --

> Katrina

>

November 14, 2012

I just love what you wrote, yes, it is so important to remember that holidays

are FAKE! This took me so long to grasp, but it is true. I have always felt

terribly lonely on holidays and then I realized I can do whatever I want on

these " holidays " . Like one year for Thanksgiving I made tacos for dinner. Why?

Because I could. Because I realized I could take control of this day and make it

into anything I wanted. Make your own holiday experiences, I think you will

enjoy it.

>

> Charlotte,

>

> I feel so sad for your situation. I can relate to it in the sense that

> there's a lot of pain there. About the holidays: THEY ARE FAKE. They are

> made up. It's just an idea that old character disordered people use to

> control others and that businesses use to make more money. All this sadness

> about something made up and in a sense not real (the pain is real) is such

> a sad waste of everyone's emotion and energy. You know why I love Christmas

> day? Then I don't have to hear about it for a while.

>

> Anyway, not sure if this might help but are there adult classes or library

> groups? Any kind of church/spiritual thing? Exercise thing? I spent a year

> in Paris and it was soooooooooooooooooo lonely. Very few would talk to me

> and it was awful.

>

> There's a line: " follow your bliss " . I really try to do that. A lot of my

> pleasure in life comes from keeping my anxiety down, telling myself that

> I'm a wonderful person and I deserve the best and trying to be as close as

> possible with my dogs. My dogs seem to enjoy the present, love easily,

> they appreciate gentleness and rubs. Simple stuff.

>

> Good luck, you are not alone. I hope you can enjoy yourself more.

>

November 14, 2012

Thank you. It is as fake as the character disordered people who use them

for their purposes. As in, completely and totally. Made up for the purpose

of controlling others.

> **

>

> I just love what you wrote, yes, it is so important to remember that

> holidays are FAKE! This took me so long to grasp, but it is true. I have

> always felt terribly lonely on holidays and then I realized I can do

> whatever I want on these " holidays " . Like one year for Thanksgiving I made

> tacos for dinner. Why? Because I could. Because I realized I could take

> control of this day and make it into anything I wanted. Make your own

> holiday experiences, I think you will enjoy it.

>

> >

> > Charlotte,

> >

> > I feel so sad for your situation. I can relate to it in the sense that

> > there's a lot of pain there. About the holidays: THEY ARE FAKE. They are

> > made up. It's just an idea that old character disordered people use to

> > control others and that businesses use to make more money. All this

> sadness

> > about something made up and in a sense not real (the pain is real) is

> such

> > a sad waste of everyone's emotion and energy. You know why I love

> Christmas

> > day? Then I don't have to hear about it for a while.

> >

> > Anyway, not sure if this might help but are there adult classes or

> library

> > groups? Any kind of church/spiritual thing? Exercise thing? I spent a

> year

> > in Paris and it was soooooooooooooooooo lonely. Very few would talk to me

> > and it was awful.

> >

> > There's a line: " follow your bliss " . I really try to do that. A lot of my

> > pleasure in life comes from keeping my anxiety down, telling myself that

> > I'm a wonderful person and I deserve the best and trying to be as close

> as

> > possible with my dogs. My dogs seem to enjoy the present, love easily,

> > they appreciate gentleness and rubs. Simple stuff.

> >

> > Good luck, you are not alone. I hope you can enjoy yourself more.

> >

November 14, 2012

Charlotte:

Gosh, what an upsetting situation! In some ways I can relate and in some ways

not exactly. I live in NYC so there are always people around (though NY is

notoriously " unfriendly " , even in an urban area it is easier to meet people when

you have kids) and I have an SO and a 2yo daughter in my life, but I understand

the familial isolation and being broke aspects: I got divorced from my BPDx last

year, cut contact with Nada and her flying monkeys, and lost my job in April. So

I can relate to a big part of what you're saying. Some of what I think KOs, and

especially divorced KOs feel, is the lack of people in their life who love them

unconditionally. That is what family is, and what a good marriage can be. We are

and will always be missing that aspect that seems like it should be a right, the

expected bare minimum that everyone except us has. I relate to those feelings.

Your feelings are valid and understandable. I'm really sorry you have to go

through it. The only real advice I have is to stay conscious through the pain.

I have been NC with Nada and flying monkeys for 1.5 years, so you are further

along in the process than I am, but we all have bad days/weeks/months, which can

be really triggered by crappy external circumstances like a bad economy. I

really empathize with how you feel.

Stay strong!!!

P.S.A One actual concrete suggestion I have in the process of staying strong, my

meditation teacher has been amazingly helpful and he offers free podcasts. His

name is Foust so if you search him on ITunes you can download his

meditations for free. I always feel much better after I listen to them. I hope

he is able to help you as he has helped me!!!

>

> Hi all,

>

> I have been NC for about 5 years now, and I am beginning to struggle with some

pretty extreme lonliness issues. So many of you out there--in fact, almost all

of you--seem to have a spouse, children, or at least a sibling, to help you

survive life without nada. I do not. I have a promising career but I have as

yet been unable to take advantage of my skills because of crippling debt (lured

into it by financially abusive fada) but, more importantly, the crippling

depression caused by this severe isolation.

>

> Especially as the holidays come about, it's a real problem for me. I am

blessed with some wonderful friends but unfortunately they are several hundred

miles away. I live in a mid-sized city where everyone my age (early 40s) seems

to be severely well settled into a 'family' life and does not even seem to be

open to new friendships, much less relationships.

>

> My nada/fada were particularly abusive and threatening, almost cult-like, in