Re: Hi, new here. (RE Sunspot's response)

[Guest guest]

Hi Sunspot,

Your description of your nada's behaviors and your relationship dynamic with her

sounds so familiar to me. My nada's behaviors and the way she felt about me and

treated me are so like your own experience.

I'm mulling over the possibility that my nada was actually more of a psychopath

than anything else, with a side-order of bpd emotional dysregulation. Viewing

other people merely as investments that were supposed to pay off was very much

an aspect of my nada's world-view, plus the rage when her " investments "

disappointed her.

Like you, I became overly-enmeshed with my nada: trauma-bonded with her for the

first half of my life. I think there is food for thought in your post, and food

for research studies. I hope that the research psychologists will actually read

our posts here, and utilize the data to help build a more complete

understanding of personality disorder and the range and severity that

personality disorder can operate in. I think there can be sub-criminal

psychopathy, ( " psychopathy lite " , perhaps?) Whatever they call it, the parental

behaviors we experienced were profoundly toxic and damaging; children deserve

sane parents who have the capacity to feel empathy and compassion for them.

Good Grief, truly.

-Annie

>

> I think you are right about people being attracted to professions that

> affect them on a personal level. My fathers mother was deeply histrionic,

> with a very loving, but passive father. My nada's family was severely

> disfunctional, with alcoholism, and passive enablers on one side, and

> clearly cruel (and possibly criminal) BPD issues on the other side.

>

> I believe my parents were trying to address inherited issues, but the

> effects of their own character-issues got in the way.

>

> The concept of over compensation was a real sticky one, for me. My nada

> gifted me with ultra fancy, expensive " stuff " I didn't want, then would

> scream at me and beat me up for thinking( I never thought this) that I was

> a princess.

>

> My father clearly recognized that something was " off " about my nada, but

> he genuinely believed that these issues could be overcome, with love, time,

> therapy, etc.

....

[Guest guest]

Annie,

Whenever I start to examine a narcissist or a borderline and really get to

know them, in the end I end up seeing a sociopath. I know I've said this

before but it all seemed like it's sociopaths with different styles. The

core, the " I play with people " like they're objects (because I'm bored),

always is there when I see a character disordered person.

I had a thought that,* *the evolutionary " missing link " was sociopathy. Say

there was a mutation in cavemen or apes or whatever. This sociopath mutated

caveman had the ability to control others through his lack of empathy and

pure predatory nature.

This sociopath was the king, he reproduced more and became the dominant as

in largest percentage of humans who went on to subdue the whole planet. The

" docile " or " kind hearted " person went on to become an extremely well liked

(and often happy) but weak kind of person. The sociopaths craved the

popularity and contentment of the " good people " therefore became very

focused on controlling them in particular to co opt the various benefits

that they achieve through being perceived and good and trustworthy.

I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

[Guest guest]

Interesting comments. . . I think that most of the world's movers and

shakers like the Great, Augustine, Henry VIII etc. all had to

have had serious sociopathic/NPD traits. If they had any concern for

humanity they would not have the great desire to kill and conquer. The

kindhearted ones surely were the peasants and the common man. However, that

does not make sociopathic behaviors desirable. I'd certainly rather lead a

quiet life and have no regrets than conquer the world and be tortured by my

own thoughts and feelings.

You might read Crime and Punishment. It is actually a story of a man who

studies at the university about the great men of the past. He becomes

obsessed with the idea that he must kill some people to prove to himself

that he is great as well. It is a LONG book, but interesting from a

psychology perspective.

[Guest guest]

I've thought about reading crime and punishment. Maybe I'll get around to

it. I do see the desire " to control " to be the defining characteristic of

humans as a group. My yard which looked fine started to pique the interest

of code enforcement. Next thing I'm talking to some sort of police official

about exactly what vegetation can and cannot stay according to some unknown

standard that the fellow was making up as he went along. It made me

extremely angry but that's just what people do. If they can, they tell

others what to do for the fun of it. This strikes me as the core behavior I

witness " out there " .

I mentioned my library group once. Surprise, surprise, a lady there has

targeted me and I asked her for help and she refused and she's running

control games. People like their control a whole lot. The desire to control

others for pleasure strikes me as a sociopathic impulse.

Thanks for responding to my thought.

On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Renslow jwjrenslow@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

>

>

> Interesting comments. . . I think that most of the world's movers and

> shakers like the Great, Augustine, Henry VIII etc. all had to

> have had serious sociopathic/NPD traits. If they had any concern for

> humanity they would not have the great desire to kill and conquer. The

> kindhearted ones surely were the peasants and the common man. However, that

> does not make sociopathic behaviors desirable. I'd certainly rather lead a

> quiet life and have no regrets than conquer the world and be tortured by my

> own thoughts and feelings.

>

> You might read Crime and Punishment. It is actually a story of a man who

> studies at the university about the great men of the past. He becomes

> obsessed with the idea that he must kill some people to prove to himself

> that he is great as well. It is a LONG book, but interesting from a

> psychology perspective.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I run into this type of controlling behavior from minor officials /

lower-eschelon bureaucrats from time to time, fortunately not very often.

I suggest dealing with know-it-alls, petty dictators or control freaks by

utilizing Medium Chill: " Hmm. I'd be interested to see the documentation about

that " delivered in a bland, tepid tone. ( I am always polite if its actually a

police officer, by the way; that's my motto.)

Then (specifically about your city code RE plants) perhaps call your city hall

and ask to speak to the minor official's supervisor. Ask for a copy of the city

regulations being referenced. There's nothing like having the actual document

and specific facts to settle an issue.

(For example, where I live there are codes about what types of plants can be

right up next to a building because of the fire hazard. I live in what is

actually a desert, and we sometimes have droughts that raise the combustable

condition of the wild vegetation so high that we can't even have any fireworks

displays on the 4th.)

I've found that asking to speak to a petty dictator's supervisor usually works.

Not always, but, often enough.

-Annie

>

> I've thought about reading crime and punishment. Maybe I'll get around to

> it. I do see the desire " to control " to be the defining characteristic of

> humans as a group. My yard which looked fine started to pique the interest

> of code enforcement. Next thing I'm talking to some sort of police official

> about exactly what vegetation can and cannot stay according to some unknown

> standard that the fellow was making up as he went along. It made me

> extremely angry but that's just what people do. If they can, they tell

> others what to do for the fun of it. This strikes me as the core behavior I

> witness " out there " .

>

> I mentioned my library group once. Surprise, surprise, a lady there has

> targeted me and I asked her for help and she refused and she's running

> control games. People like their control a whole lot. The desire to control

> others for pleasure strikes me as a sociopathic impulse.

>

> Thanks for responding to my thought.