More on Thanksgiving

[Guest guest]

I am still trying to get through my feelings around Thanksgiving. My SO thinks I

am so negative about it all so I really can't talk to him. He just thinks it's

another day and I am making a mountain out of a molehill. My trauma around the

issue is so deep though and something I've been working on/trying to figure out

for decades now. I never understood why I felt so empty being around my " family "

and always wanted a Norman Rockwell holiday. Everyone else in the family still

thinks the family is normal, except my brother who broke away and became

religious as a teenager. He is able to validate some of what I'm saying.

I am NC with my FOO and just don't feel that I would feel good if I tagged along

on a friend's family's Thanksgiving. I talked to my T about all this but she

wasn't helpful. I have a session with my insight meditation teacher Wednesday

night so I'm hoping that will really help me with the feelings I'm struggling

with.

I struggle with this preconceived, American notion that Thanksgiving involves a

(mostly) happy family around a table appreciating not just their material

blessings but most importantly the familial connection. I went NC with Nada, the

collection of BPDs in her family and all the flying monkeys a year and a half

ago. Last year's Thanksgiving was pathetic and awful, but in a lot of ways less

traumatic than previous years with Nada's drama and all the other crazies

gathered. I could never understand why with all those bodies gathered I still

felt so alone. Or why the fighting didn't stop the year I did all the work (even

though I worked 15 hour days at my job and the others involved in cooking were

retired- I was stupid enough to think they were mean because they felt stressed,

so I took on the entire Thanksgiving meal, and still they were just as crummy)

Same phenomenon when I married BPDx- he wasn't as mean but we had just as little

connection and our holidays were just as sad. I still felt alone on Thanksgiving

even when I was cooking it in the house of my dreams. There was no warmth to

fill it because every single person I had around me cared more about acting in

service of their disorder than they did about me.

I had a light bulb moment a year and a half ago and suddenly saw the illness I

was surrounded with. I cut ties, and knew it would be hard, but I just thought

I'd be further along than this by now. My 2yo daughter will be with he father

this year and my SO has no interest in celebrating, but I don't feel good about

not being with him that day, which is another reason why I decided not to tag

along on someone else's Thanksgiving.

Normally a pretty decisive, action-oriented person, I'm stymied on this one and

just sitting around feeling miserable. There's no chance I'm going to speak to

my FOO. As people ask me what I'm doing for the holidays (benign question

normally!) I feel like crap saying " nothing " - because of the sadness of our

lives over the last 1.5 years, my SO and I don't celebrate anything other than

the kids' birthdays (both lost our jobs, both struggling through divorces, etc.)

I need some lightness and levity in my life but I'm not getting it. I like to

celebrate. I like to make dinner and bake pies and have people relax and talk in

my house(or do the same at their house). Is this such a crazy desire?(I live in

NYC and the apartments are small, people generally go out to a restaurant to

meet they don't generally meet in someone's home, so this experience is now rare

in my life) Not that Nada ever had people over for dinner, but I always dreamed

about it.

Anyway I will ask my brother today if he wants to do something on Thursday, his

religious beliefs don't comport with Thanksgiving but even just a casual lunch

with him if he is available would I'm sure feel a lot better. He's been super

supportive as I've gone through this year and a half.

I'm not looking for solutions per se on this, just looking to air my sadness.

Doesanyone else relate?

Anyone expereince

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to say I relate heavily, like I bet most of us here do, to the

Thanksgiving woes. BPDs create such drama and trauma on holidays, that I gave up

celebrating Thanksgiving and Christmas with my family as a college student. I

spent some holidays with other families, some with friends, and many completely

alone. I have noticed I get tons of anxiety and PTSD symptoms as the holidays

approach, even though I am no-contact with my parents. With counseling, talking

to friends, and journal writing, I'm able to cope. It's hard not to feel sad,

lonely, and hopeless sometimes, but at the very least, it feels good knowing

that your are taking care of yourself by having boundaries and staying away from

toxic people. The holidays are supposed to be a happy time, and it's better to

be alone than be the subject of someone's abuse. Nobody should feel obligated to

be part of these twisted toxic family gatherings, and anyone who doesn't

understand that has no business talking to you about how to deal with this

situation. We deserve to find ourselves, and find our own peace and sanity, not

just on holidays, but every single day.

>

> I am still trying to get through my feelings around Thanksgiving. My SO thinks

I am so negative about it all so I really can't talk to him. He just thinks it's

another day and I am making a mountain out of a molehill. My trauma around the

issue is so deep though and something I've been working on/trying to figure out

for decades now. I never understood why I felt so empty being around my " family "

and always wanted a Norman Rockwell holiday. Everyone else in the family still

thinks the family is normal, except my brother who broke away and became

religious as a teenager. He is able to validate some of what I'm saying.

>

> I am NC with my FOO and just don't feel that I would feel good if I tagged

along on a friend's family's Thanksgiving. I talked to my T about all this but

she wasn't helpful. I have a session with my insight meditation teacher

Wednesday night so I'm hoping that will really help me with the feelings I'm

struggling with.

>

> I struggle with this preconceived, American notion that Thanksgiving involves

a (mostly) happy family around a table appreciating not just their material

blessings but most importantly the familial connection. I went NC with Nada, the

collection of BPDs in her family and all the flying monkeys a year and a half

ago. Last year's Thanksgiving was pathetic and awful, but in a lot of ways less

traumatic than previous years with Nada's drama and all the other crazies

gathered. I could never understand why with all those bodies gathered I still

felt so alone. Or why the fighting didn't stop the year I did all the work (even

though I worked 15 hour days at my job and the others involved in cooking were

retired- I was stupid enough to think they were mean because they felt stressed,

so I took on the entire Thanksgiving meal, and still they were just as crummy)

Same phenomenon when I married BPDx- he wasn't as mean but we had just as little

connection and our holidays were just as sad. I still felt alone on Thanksgiving

even when I was cooking it in the house of my dreams. There was no warmth to

fill it because every single person I had around me cared more about acting in

service of their disorder than they did about me.

>

> I had a light bulb moment a year and a half ago and suddenly saw the illness I

was surrounded with. I cut ties, and knew it would be hard, but I just thought

I'd be further along than this by now. My 2yo daughter will be with he father

this year and my SO has no interest in celebrating, but I don't feel good about

not being with him that day, which is another reason why I decided not to tag

along on someone else's Thanksgiving.

>

> Normally a pretty decisive, action-oriented person, I'm stymied on this one

and just sitting around feeling miserable. There's no chance I'm going to speak

to my FOO. As people ask me what I'm doing for the holidays (benign question

normally!) I feel like crap saying " nothing " - because of the sadness of our

lives over the last 1.5 years, my SO and I don't celebrate anything other than

the kids' birthdays (both lost our jobs, both struggling through divorces, etc.)

I need some lightness and levity in my life but I'm not getting it. I like to

celebrate. I like to make dinner and bake pies and have people relax and talk in

my house(or do the same at their house). Is this such a crazy desire?(I live in

NYC and the apartments are small, people generally go out to a restaurant to

meet they don't generally meet in someone's home, so this experience is now rare

in my life) Not that Nada ever had people over for dinner, but I always dreamed

about it.

>

> Anyway I will ask my brother today if he wants to do something on Thursday,

his religious beliefs don't comport with Thanksgiving but even just a casual

lunch with him if he is available would I'm sure feel a lot better. He's been

super supportive as I've gone through this year and a half.

>

> I'm not looking for solutions per se on this, just looking to air my sadness.

>

> Doesanyone else relate?

> Anyone expereince

>

[Guest guest]

thank you elanais, I really appreciate it. I am really moving forward with my

feelings about my family in general- I am REALLY grateful to have no contact

with the poisonous people and really grateful to be establishing a relationship

with my brother who is really positive-but it sucks so much to have such a

crappy family in general, and that really no one other than the people on this

board understand.

And yes, one thing I will be grateful for this Thanksgiving is not being a

victim to these people!!!

thank you again for listening!

> >

> > I am still trying to get through my feelings around Thanksgiving. My SO

thinks I am so negative about it all so I really can't talk to him. He just

thinks it's another day and I am making a mountain out of a molehill. My trauma

around the issue is so deep though and something I've been working on/trying to

figure out for decades now. I never understood why I felt so empty being around

my " family " and always wanted a Norman Rockwell holiday. Everyone else in the

family still thinks the family is normal, except my brother who broke away and

became religious as a teenager. He is able to validate some of what I'm saying.

> >

> > I am NC with my FOO and just don't feel that I would feel good if I tagged

along on a friend's family's Thanksgiving. I talked to my T about all this but

she wasn't helpful. I have a session with my insight meditation teacher

Wednesday night so I'm hoping that will really help me with the feelings I'm

struggling with.

> >

> > I struggle with this preconceived, American notion that Thanksgiving

involves a (mostly) happy family around a table appreciating not just their

material blessings but most importantly the familial connection. I went NC with

Nada, the collection of BPDs in her family and all the flying monkeys a year and

a half ago. Last year's Thanksgiving was pathetic and awful, but in a lot of

ways less traumatic than previous years with Nada's drama and all the other

crazies gathered. I could never understand why with all those bodies gathered I

still felt so alone. Or why the fighting didn't stop the year I did all the work

(even though I worked 15 hour days at my job and the others involved in cooking

were retired- I was stupid enough to think they were mean because they felt

stressed, so I took on the entire Thanksgiving meal, and still they were just as

crummy) Same phenomenon when I married BPDx- he wasn't as mean but we had just

as little connection and our holidays were just as sad. I still felt alone on

Thanksgiving even when I was cooking it in the house of my dreams. There was no

warmth to fill it because every single person I had around me cared more about

acting in service of their disorder than they did about me.

> >

> > I had a light bulb moment a year and a half ago and suddenly saw the illness

I was surrounded with. I cut ties, and knew it would be hard, but I just thought

I'd be further along than this by now. My 2yo daughter will be with he father

this year and my SO has no interest in celebrating, but I don't feel good about

not being with him that day, which is another reason why I decided not to tag

along on someone else's Thanksgiving.

> >

> > Normally a pretty decisive, action-oriented person, I'm stymied on this one

and just sitting around feeling miserable. There's no chance I'm going to speak

to my FOO. As people ask me what I'm doing for the holidays (benign question

normally!) I feel like crap saying " nothing " - because of the sadness of our

lives over the last 1.5 years, my SO and I don't celebrate anything other than

the kids' birthdays (both lost our jobs, both struggling through divorces, etc.)

I need some lightness and levity in my life but I'm not getting it. I like to

celebrate. I like to make dinner and bake pies and have people relax and talk in

my house(or do the same at their house). Is this such a crazy desire?(I live in

NYC and the apartments are small, people generally go out to a restaurant to

meet they don't generally meet in someone's home, so this experience is now rare

in my life) Not that Nada ever had people over for dinner, but I always dreamed

about it.

> >

> > Anyway I will ask my brother today if he wants to do something on Thursday,

his religious beliefs don't comport with Thanksgiving but even just a casual

lunch with him if he is available would I'm sure feel a lot better. He's been

super supportive as I've gone through this year and a half.

> >

> > I'm not looking for solutions per se on this, just looking to air my

sadness.

> >

> > Doesanyone else relate?

> > Anyone expereince

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You are wiser than you know mdg! You are on the path to creating a " good thing "

out of the misery of the past. You have come to accept that the Norman Rockwell

holiday is going to remain fiction AT THIS TIME. Thus, you are actively look for

things that WILL work.

Do your SO and brother enjoy football? If so you might want to try what is

working for me. Invite them to sit back and enjoy the games as you prepare the

foods that delight the three of you. They don't have to be tradition just select

a menu of foods that comfort, cheer, or fill cravings. Set the pace so that

there will be no pressure on you as you cook and smash that rule which decrees

that no one eats until the cook sits down. Be open hearted and say that everyone

is allowed to graze on anything they want to eat all day long. You are

celebrating a day of peace, pleasure, and abundance.

Hubby and I go shopping together early in the week and purchase whatever appeals

to us! Hubby's taste lean toward football snacks. However, I get a kick out of

preparing the dishes my Grandmother used to make during the holidays. The people

of my childhood have past or faded out of my life. The places we celebrated are

gone now. Nevertheless, I can still recreate the tastes and smells of

Thanksgivings past. Poor old Norman Rockwell's mouth would drool! Somehow, just

knowing that fact, helps me to regain some of the personal empowerment BPD

attempted to rob away. Being in control of what I do, creating a relaxed and

welcoming space, and having a kitchen that smells even better than Grandmother's

allows me to own the title of matriarch...and I'm doing a good job of it even if

my new family is very small!

No matter what you select to do, select to be happy and settle for nothing less!

MB

More on Thanksgiving

I am still trying to get through my feelings around Thanksgiving. My SO thinks

I am so negative about it all so I really can't talk to him. He just thinks it's

another day and I am making a mountain out of a molehill. My trauma around the

issue is so deep though and something I've been working on/trying to figure out

for decades now. I never understood why I felt so empty being around my " family "

and always wanted a Norman Rockwell holiday. Everyone else in the family still

thinks the family is normal, except my brother who broke away and became

religious as a teenager. He is able to validate some of what I'm saying.

[Guest guest]

I can relate to the Thanksgiving stressors as well and have been developing

strategies for what to do on the day-of for a couple months at this point.  My

partner and I are going to see nada for just 1-2 hours for a t-day breakfast in

the morning, and then take the day to relax together. I made this decision with

the support of my counselor who does not believe it necessary to feel close to a

problematic parents.  My partner and I have an order for two vegan thanksgiving

meals to-go from Whole Foods (we are both lactose-intolerant, so it makes sense

for us.  Although I will miss the real turkey meat :-)  In addition, we have a

stockpile of Thanksgiving-themed movies to choose from that day which I acquired

last Thanksgiving as a means of spending the day with my nada. I am also

planning a skype date with a friend living abroad.  If I start feeling antsy

about wanting to be around people, there is a neighborhood bar we might pop in

just to see

friendly faces for a little while. I hope that by sharing these solutions for

me it might spark ideas for others on this listserve.

I had a uge let down from my nada a couple of months ago. I have made great

efforts to connect with her, in part by assistance her with the process of

obtaining social security benefits. As soon as she received her benefits, she

behaved like a selfish child and I was accused of victimizing her in the

process. Over the past year, I have really come to terms with her mental

illness, in spite of the fact that her family denies the extent of her

limitations. It has been a painful period of growth. I was raised to deny her

limitations too, and now that I have clarity on her BPD (it's symptoms, it's

consequences, and it's likely cause) I don't feel like there is much of a place

for me on her side of the family. They have never really dealt with their own

childhood abuses and have projected their issues with my nada onto me. They

don't really step outside of their comfort zone to have a relationship with me,

and I am not going to do so for them on Thanksgiving,

one of my few day, off when I ought to be taking care of myself and enjoying

the day as much as I can.  

I had a period of very limited contact with these family member during college

and years after, when I lived out of state. Moving back to where I grew up, I

have had the chance to develop a relationship with them as an adult and to have

a fresh start. That was four years ago. At this point, I feel that I have built

as much connection with them as there is to build, and it's time to recognize

that I gave it my best shot and that I cannot look to them for more than they

have to give.  On the other hand, there are family members who expect me to

increasingly take on responsibility for her care, and I refuse to do so in a

capacity that denies her needs or demands that I overextend myself and engage in

an abusive relationship.  I will help connect her to services for people with

disabilities if/when she is able to accept them.  Otherwise, it's on her to act

like the completely independent adult that she pretends to be.  If other family

members support her

own denial in part because it allows them to maintain their own denial, than I

cannot participate or be a resource in the way that I would ideally like to be.

Now that I understand how much her untreated illness cost me, it is important to

me that others are able to acknowledge that aspect of my experience. Surviving

it has made me a huge part of who I am, and it provides a reasonable explanation

for the challenges that I have faced and continue to deal with as well as

regrettable past behaviors. I find it healing to be able to share, even in

passing reference, to this part of my experience and receive an empathetic

response. I had a close friend invite me and my partner to join her family for

Thanksgiving, and although we have declined, the offer went a long way.

[Guest guest]

I wonder if what you were told--either directly or indirectly--is that

Thanksgiving either was or should be a Norman Rockwell holiday. Sometimes nadas

and fadas are righteously indignant that they aren't being given a holiday card

occasion, or we are told an empty, meaningless occasion is wonderful when it

isn't. This creates a sense of loss for something that never existed and isn't

possible.

I think that's the first step is just confronting that desire for a perfection

that doesn't exist. Because you are looking for something that isn't there, you

can't enjoy what is there or create what is enjoyable. Also, enjoying something

means not shutting down real feelings of loss and sorrow. So, you may just have

a few sad Thanksgivings before you can enjoy them. But I would guess you won't

ever enjoy them if you are fighting the sadness.

I've been having Thanksgiving with the same 2 families for most of the last 20

years. We have all been through divorces and there were few coming-outs. The

kids have grown up and during the divorced years they came sometimes and other

times didn't. I am an orphan, and their parents are on another coast, so it

works out. There are usually a few family-less souls there who either are far

away from home or have simply outlived their families (parents have passed on,

no children, divorced, etc.) The food is good, no one is fighting, and it's a

good time every year.

Tagging along to someone else's Thanksgiving can be fun. You get to see how

someone else does it and whether you like that. Do they fight over how the

turkey gets cooked? Are there 2 different cranberry sauces because they can't

agree? Do they make that awful green bean casserole? Is there lasagna?

Take care,

Ashana