Guest guest Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year. I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault. I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for trying to help her now in her decline. Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life believing my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif and runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security. Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what your believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more than ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I protected her from my father and brother most all my life. How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and emotional health issues? All shares would be so appreciated right now.. Twyla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Twyla This is so sad. Realizing the truth is the hard part. You can get through this. > I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year. > > I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter > how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault. > > I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother > has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for > trying to help her now in her decline. > > Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last > year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life believing > my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif and > runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security. > > Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what your > believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in > reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more than > ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had > break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing > with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I > protected her from my father and brother most all my life. > > How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a > disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a > need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and > emotional health issues? > > All shares would be so appreciated right now.. > > Twyla > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Twyla, I don't have any answers for you, because I am exactly where you are right now. Thank you for posting this, it helps me to not feel so alone. Take care, _____ From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of millicentkunstler@... Sent: November-21-12 8:14 AM To: WTOAdultChildren1 Subject: Re: What Do You Do? Twyla This is so sad. Realizing the truth is the hard part. You can get through this. On Nov 21, 2012, at 2:03 AM, " Twyla " resultsmayvary6@... > wrote: > I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year. > > I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter > how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault. > > I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother > has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for > trying to help her now in her decline. > > Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last > year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life believing > my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif and > runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security. > > Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what your > believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in > reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more than > ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had > break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing > with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I > protected her from my father and brother most all my life. > > How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a > disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a > need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and > emotional health issues? > > All shares would be so appreciated right now.. > > Twyla > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 My younger Sister was able to achieve that state of mind, that I think of as " compassionate detachment. " I was not able to achieve it. I just couldn't take nada anymore and badly needed to get away from her for the sake of my own mental and physical health, and I cut contact. But Sister had decided to go into therapy. Her therapist was able to help Sister with her dilemma: Sister felt she wanted to and felt she needed to remain in contact with our nada, but contact with our nada was making Sister increasingly depressed. (It scared me how depressed Sister was becoming.) So, somehow, Sister was able to make a big " paradigm shift " in her mental landscape. Sister decided that in her heart, our mother had died, and Sister mourned for our mother's death as though it was mother's physical death. She then decided that this elderly, mentally ill person was one of her " clients. " Sister is able to be very helpful and yet maintain a professional emotional distance with her clients, so, that's how she chose to redefine her relationship with our nada. Being human, of course Sister was not able to achieve a complete, total emotional break from our nada. Sister told me that the ugly, hateful things nada said to Sister still hurt, but radically less than before. The two times I visited Sister and nada together after going No Contact, I observed that my Sister's demeanor had become just kind of practical and supervisory toward our nada; it seemed that Sister was no longer taking what nada said to her personally. She'd talk back to nada, but not in an angry, hurt way, just sort of the way a very professional, no-nonsense nurse talks to a balky patient. My Sister and I have quite different personalities, interests, lifestyles and professional careers, and my Sister had had a somewhat different relationship with our nada for our whole lives, than I did. Although Sister had been both emotionally and physically abused by our nada, as I had, and pretty severely abused, yet somehow they were emotionally closer to each other than nada had ever been with me. I was impressed, kind of envious (sibling rivalry?) and at the same time intensely grateful that Sister actually wanted to remain in contact with our nada. I hope that you will find whatever path works best for you, and helps you heal, whether your path includes contact with your nada or not. -Annie > > I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year. > > > > I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter > how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault. > > > > I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother > has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for > trying to help her now in her decline. > > > > Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last > year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life believing > my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif and > runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security. > > > > Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what your > believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in > reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more than > ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had > break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing > with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I > protected her from my father and brother most all my life. > > > > How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a > disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a > need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and > emotional health issues? > > > > All shares would be so appreciated right now.. > > > > Twyla > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Dear Twyla, My heart goes out to you and I long to hug and comfort you. It does feel rotten and surreal when you realize that your " relationship " with your mother and your family of origin has basically been lies, smoke, mirrors, and mist. The shame and anger one feels with ones self is part of returning (first entering?) normal. What does one do with these emotions? The short answer is to let them go. Start with forgiveness. Forgive the child you were. You were helpless and did not know the actions and behaviors you witnessed were not normal. Forgive those who were also unwitting victims of abuse. Next, act from a place of love. Love and protect yourself. Love and protect your children. Love and protect your spouse. Vow to be the last person the dysfunction caused by BPD is to affect. If this means going no contact, so be it. It takes strength but you already have it within you. Do whatever it takes to make your home a place of serenity and safety. This is the scared nest from which you will operate and to while you will return for rest. Let your home be filled with love. Reach out and KEEP ON reaching out until you find a means to cope with the pain. You do not have to be alone or hide the family secret anymore. This step is very difficult for those of us who have spent our lives protecting others. Reaching out helps us to develop method of coping. On line " contact " with other KO's is a gentle step to take. Others find therapy, meditation groups, yoga, and even long distance running to be effective coping tools. Personally, I find hiking in near a local vernal pool to helpful as well as hours spent in my gardens. As Muir wrote, " Nature's peace will flow into you as sunlight flows into trees. " Help others. This is another tricky step. It involves moving past your own pain and developing empathy for others. BPD is a very self absorbed mental state that rarely shows compassion. If one has been raised in such a world trusting others can be a slippery slope. Some people select to be fund raisers for organizations that support battered children. Others write about BPD in an attempt to remove the stigma. Many of us try to support each other on the on-line boards. Take baby steps and do what feels like the " most right " action. Finally, LOVE. Healthy, loving relationships are the opposite of BPD! If loving humans feels scary (it can be frightening for those who have had " normal " families) start with smaller commitments. Nurture your house plants. Order seed catalogues (many come out in January) then plan and plant a garden this Spring. Adopt a pet from the local shelter or rescue group. Volunteer with schools, churches, community service groups, or elderly care programs. Surround yourself with people who laugh, love, and are unafraid to live their lives. Reward yourself for surviving and moving past dysfunction. Celebrate the fact that you have lived! Rejoice and weep no more! It does get better, MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Thank you ALL for your replies. Thank you Rico and Beth. The support you have given here is what I need to read and hear again and again. So easy to blame oneself.to say I missed something in my interpretation, that mom is elderly...the list goes on. One thing I am now able to do is NOT reach for the phone. I tried this NC last year but it ended in less than 3 weeks and I was so full of anger when I reached mom that I was a wreck..still trying to get her to " see " ..how she hurt me ...to fix all and get that fast resolution I always strive for. It did not teach her much except that I would always come back. Now I am trying to take this one day at a time, many, many thoughts come forward and I check myself often to make sure I have not mis-read or over-generalized anything. I have trained mom to let myself be treated this way because I was her emotional car- taker and always felt so sorry for the way my father and grandma treated her. They are long dead..she behaves in the manner that she was treated and has CHOSEN to continue. I cannot do this anymore. I just take the days as they come. I am angry at moments then sad, so sad..then at peace then the cycle repeats. My DH does not understand fully and is so sick of seeing me hurt over years that he says just " be done with her already, I do not want to see you hurt anymore. " He also naively thinks I can just shut the door on my feelings..maybe...not all at once. Christmas is fast approaching and I will have to pass another milestone... I have been quietly reading all you guys for over a year...I am grateful for another Loop member's reference to this group as I have fortified and educated myself a fair bit but the real test is here now. I need time and isolation. Finally I have given this to myself. Thank you all for your shares as we would be alone with our deepest hurts without them. Twyla. From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Rico and Beth Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 09:41 AM To: WTOAdultChildren1 Subject: Re: What Do You Do? Dear Twyla, My heart goes out to you and I long to hug and comfort you. It does feel rotten and surreal when you realize that your " relationship " with your mother and your family of origin has basically been lies, smoke, mirrors, and mist. The shame and anger one feels with ones self is part of returning (first entering?) normal. What does one do with these emotions? The short answer is to let them go. Start with forgiveness. Forgive the child you were. You were helpless and did not know the actions and behaviors you witnessed were not normal. Forgive those who were also unwitting victims of abuse. Next, act from a place of love. Love and protect yourself. Love and protect your children. Love and protect your spouse. Vow to be the last person the dysfunction caused by BPD is to affect. If this means going no contact, so be it. It takes strength but you already have it within you. Do whatever it takes to make your home a place of serenity and safety. This is the scared nest from which you will operate and to while you will return for rest. Let your home be filled with love. Reach out and KEEP ON reaching out until you find a means to cope with the pain. You do not have to be alone or hide the family secret anymore. This step is very difficult for those of us who have spent our lives protecting others. Reaching out helps us to develop method of coping. On line " contact " with other KO's is a gentle step to take. Others find therapy, meditation groups, yoga, and even long distance running to be effective coping tools. Personally, I find hiking in near a local vernal pool to helpful as well as hours spent in my gardens. As Muir wrote, " Nature's peace will flow into you as sunlight flows into trees. " Help others. This is another tricky step. It involves moving past your own pain and developing empathy for others. BPD is a very self absorbed mental state that rarely shows compassion. If one has been raised in such a world trusting others can be a slippery slope. Some people select to be fund raisers for organizations that support battered children. Others write about BPD in an attempt to remove the stigma. Many of us try to support each other on the on-line boards. Take baby steps and do what feels like the " most right " action. Finally, LOVE. Healthy, loving relationships are the opposite of BPD! If loving humans feels scary (it can be frightening for those who have had " normal " families) start with smaller commitments. Nurture your house plants. Order seed catalogues (many come out in January) then plan and plant a garden this Spring. Adopt a pet from the local shelter or rescue group. Volunteer with schools, churches, community service groups, or elderly care programs. Surround yourself with people who laugh, love, and are unafraid to live their lives. Reward yourself for surviving and moving past dysfunction. Celebrate the fact that you have lived! Rejoice and weep no more! It does get better, MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Part of the problem, I will speak for myself, is that I am addicted to the drama and the bad love of nut jobs. It is hard to cope with " just me " the emptiness and not trying to help and fix. It gets easier bit that's why it's hard for us to just close that door. > Thank you ALL for your replies. Thank you Rico and Beth. > > The support you have given here is what I need to read and hear again and > again. So easy to blame oneself.to say I missed something in my > interpretation, that mom is elderly...the list goes on. One thing I am now > able to do is NOT reach for the phone. I tried this NC last year but it > ended in less than 3 weeks and I was so full of anger when I reached mom > that I was a wreck..still trying to get her to " see " ..how she hurt me ...to > fix all and get that fast resolution I always strive for. It did not teach > her much except that I would always come back. > > Now I am trying to take this one day at a time, many, many thoughts come > forward and I check myself often to make sure I have not mis-read or > over-generalized anything. I have trained mom to let myself be treated this > way because I was her emotional car- taker and always felt so sorry for the > way my father and grandma treated her. They are long dead..she behaves in > the manner that she was treated and has CHOSEN to continue. I cannot do > this anymore. > > I just take the days as they come. I am angry at moments then sad, so > sad..then at peace then the cycle repeats. My DH does not understand fully > and is so sick of seeing me hurt over years that he says just " be done with > her already, I do not want to see you hurt anymore. " He also naively thinks > I can just shut the door on my feelings..maybe...not all at once. > > Christmas is fast approaching and I will have to pass another milestone... > > I have been quietly reading all you guys for over a year...I am grateful for > another Loop member's reference to this group as I have fortified and > educated myself a fair bit but the real test is here now. > > I need time and isolation. Finally I have given this to myself. > > Thank you all for your shares as we would be alone with our deepest hurts > without them. > > Twyla. > > From: WTOAdultChildren1 > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Rico and Beth > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 09:41 AM > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Subject: Re: What Do You Do? > > Dear Twyla, > > My heart goes out to you and I long to hug and comfort you. It does feel > rotten and surreal when you realize that your " relationship " with your > mother and your family of origin has basically been lies, smoke, mirrors, > and mist. The shame and anger one feels with ones self is part of returning > (first entering?) normal. What does one do with these emotions? The short > answer is to let them go. > > Start with forgiveness. Forgive the child you were. You were helpless and > did not know the actions and behaviors you witnessed were not normal. > Forgive those who were also unwitting victims of abuse. > > Next, act from a place of love. Love and protect yourself. Love and protect > your children. Love and protect your spouse. Vow to be the last person the > dysfunction caused by BPD is to affect. If this means going no contact, so > be it. It takes strength but you already have it within you. Do whatever it > takes to make your home a place of serenity and safety. This is the scared > nest from which you will operate and to while you will return for rest. Let > your home be filled with love. > > Reach out and KEEP ON reaching out until you find a means to cope with the > pain. You do not have to be alone or hide the family secret anymore. This > step is very difficult for those of us who have spent our lives protecting > others. Reaching out helps us to develop method of coping. On line " contact " > with other KO's is a gentle step to take. Others find therapy, meditation > groups, yoga, and even long distance running to be effective coping tools. > Personally, I find hiking in near a local vernal pool to helpful as well as > hours spent in my gardens. As Muir wrote, " Nature's peace will flow into you > as sunlight flows into trees. " > > Help others. This is another tricky step. It involves moving past your own > pain and developing empathy for others. BPD is a very self absorbed mental > state that rarely shows compassion. If one has been raised in such a world > trusting others can be a slippery slope. Some people select to be fund > raisers for organizations that support battered children. Others write about > BPD in an attempt to remove the stigma. Many of us try to support each other > on the on-line boards. Take baby steps and do what feels like the " most > right " action. > > Finally, LOVE. Healthy, loving relationships are the opposite of BPD! If > loving humans feels scary (it can be frightening for those who have had > " normal " families) start with smaller commitments. Nurture your house > plants. Order seed catalogues (many come out in January) then plan and plant > a garden this Spring. Adopt a pet from the local shelter or rescue group. > Volunteer with schools, churches, community service groups, or elderly care > programs. Surround yourself with people who laugh, love, and are unafraid to > live their lives. Reward yourself for surviving and moving past dysfunction. > Celebrate the fact that you have lived! Rejoice and weep no more! > > It does get better, > > MB > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Hi Millicent, I have run-on re-occurring thoughts and questions about the validity of my present actions of NC because of fact she is my MOTHER and she is elderly (she has my siblings to take care of her 800 miles away from us here)…….so guilt is playing. It is hard for me to close the door because of this. I was addicted to drama for sure…it was what I was taught. My DH never experienced this (until he met the earlier me…ha ha, sad but true) so it must be easy for him to rationalize this is not a good thing for me and ask why I still ponder. I know he is frustrated with me but even HE bought into her for years. Now, no longer. Some of it certainly is because I had such devotion to her AND the mother figure. I wanted/want a family of origin soooooo badly but not any longer if my mental and physical health are affected. My health, as for most of us with these types of loved ones, has taken a good beating for years in the way of poor emotional habits that set my life’s negative attitude which has been becoming more and more positive. It just took such a long time for me to see all this, or perhaps to ADMIT it to myself. It is my turn to start to live. All the best to ALL here….. Twyla From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of millicentkunstler@... Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 06:40 AM To: WTOAdultChildren1 Subject: Re: What Do You Do? Part of the problem, I will speak for myself, is that I am addicted to the drama and the bad love of nut jobs. It is hard to cope with " just me " the emptiness and not trying to help and fix. It gets easier bit that's why it's hard for us to just close that door. On Nov 21, 2012, at 11:22 PM, " Twyla " resultsmayvary6@... > wrote: > Thank you ALL for your replies. Thank you Rico and Beth. > > The support you have given here is what I need to read and hear again and > again. So easy to blame oneself.to say I missed something in my > interpretation, that mom is elderly...the list goes on. One thing I am now > able to do is NOT reach for the phone. I tried this NC last year but it > ended in less than 3 weeks and I was so full of anger when I reached mom > that I was a wreck..still trying to get her to " see " ..how she hurt me ...to > fix all and get that fast resolution I always strive for. It did not teach > her much except that I would always come back. > > Now I am trying to take this one day at a time, many, many thoughts come > forward and I check myself often to make sure I have not mis-read or > over-generalized anything. I have trained mom to let myself be treated this > way because I was her emotional car- taker and always felt so sorry for the > way my father and grandma treated her. They are long dead..she behaves in > the manner that she was treated and has CHOSEN to continue. I cannot do > this anymore. > > I just take the days as they come. I am angry at moments then sad, so > sad..then at peace then the cycle repeats. My DH does not understand fully > and is so sick of seeing me hurt over years that he says just " be done with > her already, I do not want to see you hurt anymore. " He also naively thinks > I can just shut the door on my feelings..maybe...not all at once. > > Christmas is fast approaching and I will have to pass another milestone... > > I have been quietly reading all you guys for over a year...I am grateful for > another Loop member's reference to this group as I have fortified and > educated myself a fair bit but the real test is here now. > > I need time and isolation. Finally I have given this to myself. > > Thank you all for your shares as we would be alone with our deepest hurts > without them. > > Twyla. > > From: WTOAdultChildren1 > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Rico and Beth > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 09:41 AM > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Subject: Re: What Do You Do? > > Dear Twyla, > > My heart goes out to you and I long to hug and comfort you. It does feel > rotten and surreal when you realize that your " relationship " with your > mother and your family of origin has basically been lies, smoke, mirrors, > and mist. The shame and anger one feels with ones self is part of returning > (first entering?) normal. What does one do with these emotions? The short > answer is to let them go. > > Start with forgiveness. Forgive the child you were. You were helpless and > did not know the actions and behaviors you witnessed were not normal. > Forgive those who were also unwitting victims of abuse. > > Next, act from a place of love. Love and protect yourself. Love and protect > your children. Love and protect your spouse. Vow to be the last person the > dysfunction caused by BPD is to affect. If this means going no contact, so > be it. It takes strength but you already have it within you. Do whatever it > takes to make your home a place of serenity and safety. This is the scared > nest from which you will operate and to while you will return for rest. Let > your home be filled with love. > > Reach out and KEEP ON reaching out until you find a means to cope with the > pain. You do not have to be alone or hide the family secret anymore. This > step is very difficult for those of us who have spent our lives protecting > others. Reaching out helps us to develop method of coping. On line " contact " > with other KO's is a gentle step to take. Others find therapy, meditation > groups, yoga, and even long distance running to be effective coping tools. > Personally, I find hiking in near a local vernal pool to helpful as well as > hours spent in my gardens. As Muir wrote, " Nature's peace will flow into you > as sunlight flows into trees. " > > Help others. This is another tricky step. It involves moving past your own > pain and developing empathy for others. BPD is a very self absorbed mental > state that rarely shows compassion. If one has been raised in such a world > trusting others can be a slippery slope. Some people select to be fund > raisers for organizations that support battered children. Others write about > BPD in an attempt to remove the stigma. Many of us try to support each other > on the on-line boards. Take baby steps and do what feels like the " most > right " action. > > Finally, LOVE. Healthy, loving relationships are the opposite of BPD! If > loving humans feels scary (it can be frightening for those who have had > " normal " families) start with smaller commitments. Nurture your house > plants. Order seed catalogues (many come out in January) then plan and plant > a garden this Spring. Adopt a pet from the local shelter or rescue group. > Volunteer with schools, churches, community service groups, or elderly care > programs. Surround yourself with people who laugh, love, and are unafraid to > live their lives. Reward yourself for surviving and moving past dysfunction. > Celebrate the fact that you have lived! Rejoice and weep no more! > > It does get better, > > MB > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Twyla, I imagine all of us can feel your pain on this. But being a mother is more than carrying, giving birth and torturing a child. It is loving, supporting, encouraging, being there for the child. Mental abuse I feel trumps the mother card. A mother doesn't have to give birth to a child as long as she (or even he!) can be kind and supportive to that child and bring the child up to feel worthwhile. If you had a mother who was obsessive and controlling and diminishing, that is a type of " MOTHER " too. The kind that shares our genetics but that mother is the worst enemy of the child. You can put down the guilt if you really put your mind to it. I appreciate that you also have experienced the addictive quality of the ups and down and shifts in the powergame that many of us have experienced with our nutjobs. My opinion comes from my experience. I don't know you or your mother. But I feel if you were abused by your mother then you owe her nothing. Mother, like thanksgiving and christmas are things blown up by hype and the human need to control others. A mother is a friend who plays that supportive but older position. If the mother abuses, she's not a mother and therefore I'm not sensitive to the " but she's my mother after all " argument. She forfeited that if she was anything like mine was. > ** > > > Hi Millicent, > > I have run-on re-occurring thoughts and questions about the validity of my > present actions of NC because of fact she is my MOTHER and she is elderly > (she has my siblings to take care of her 800 miles away from us here)…….so > guilt is playing. It is hard for me to close the door because of this. I > was addicted to drama for sure…it was what I was taught. My DH never > experienced this (until he met the earlier me…ha ha, sad but true) so it > must be easy for him to rationalize this is not a good thing for me and ask > why I still ponder. I know he is frustrated with me but even HE bought into > her for years. Now, no longer. > > Some of it certainly is because I had such devotion to her AND the mother > figure. I wanted/want a family of origin soooooo badly but not any longer > if my mental and physical health are affected. My health, as for most of us > with these types of loved ones, has taken a good beating for years in the > way of poor emotional habits that set my life’s negative attitude which has > been becoming more and more positive. > > It just took such a long time for me to see all this, or perhaps to ADMIT > it to myself. > > It is my turn to start to live. > > All the best to ALL here….. > > Twyla > > From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto: > WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of > millicentkunstler@... > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 06:40 AM > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Subject: Re: What Do You Do? > > Part of the problem, I will speak for myself, is that I am addicted to the > drama and the bad love of nut jobs. It is hard to cope with " just me " the > emptiness and not trying to help and fix. It gets easier bit that's why > it's hard for us to just close that door. > > On Nov 21, 2012, at 11:22 PM, " Twyla " resultsmayvary6@... resultsmayvary6%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Thank you ALL for your replies. Thank you Rico and Beth. > > > > The support you have given here is what I need to read and hear again and > > again. So easy to blame oneself.to say I missed something in my > > interpretation, that mom is elderly...the list goes on. One thing I am > now > > able to do is NOT reach for the phone. I tried this NC last year but it > > ended in less than 3 weeks and I was so full of anger when I reached mom > > that I was a wreck..still trying to get her to " see " ..how she hurt me > ...to > > fix all and get that fast resolution I always strive for. It did not > teach > > her much except that I would always come back. > > > > Now I am trying to take this one day at a time, many, many thoughts come > > forward and I check myself often to make sure I have not mis-read or > > over-generalized anything. I have trained mom to let myself be treated > this > > way because I was her emotional car- taker and always felt so sorry for > the > > way my father and grandma treated her. They are long dead..she behaves in > > the manner that she was treated and has CHOSEN to continue. I cannot do > > this anymore. > > > > I just take the days as they come. I am angry at moments then sad, so > > sad..then at peace then the cycle repeats. My DH does not understand > fully > > and is so sick of seeing me hurt over years that he says just " be done > with > > her already, I do not want to see you hurt anymore. " He also naively > thinks > > I can just shut the door on my feelings..maybe...not all at once. > > > > Christmas is fast approaching and I will have to pass another > milestone... > > > > I have been quietly reading all you guys for over a year...I am grateful > for > > another Loop member's reference to this group as I have fortified and > > educated myself a fair bit but the real test is here now. > > > > I need time and isolation. Finally I have given this to myself. > > > > Thank you all for your shares as we would be alone with our deepest hurts > > without them. > > > > Twyla. > > > > From: WTOAdultChildren1 WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Rico and Beth > > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 09:41 AM > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: What Do You Do? > > > > Dear Twyla, > > > > My heart goes out to you and I long to hug and comfort you. It does feel > > rotten and surreal when you realize that your " relationship " with your > > mother and your family of origin has basically been lies, smoke, mirrors, > > and mist. The shame and anger one feels with ones self is part of > returning > > (first entering?) normal. What does one do with these emotions? The short > > answer is to let them go. > > > > Start with forgiveness. Forgive the child you were. You were helpless and > > did not know the actions and behaviors you witnessed were not normal. > > Forgive those who were also unwitting victims of abuse. > > > > Next, act from a place of love. Love and protect yourself. Love and > protect > > your children. Love and protect your spouse. Vow to be the last person > the > > dysfunction caused by BPD is to affect. If this means going no contact, > so > > be it. It takes strength but you already have it within you. Do whatever > it > > takes to make your home a place of serenity and safety. This is the > scared > > nest from which you will operate and to while you will return for rest. > Let > > your home be filled with love. > > > > Reach out and KEEP ON reaching out until you find a means to cope with > the > > pain. You do not have to be alone or hide the family secret anymore. This > > step is very difficult for those of us who have spent our lives > protecting > > others. Reaching out helps us to develop method of coping. On line > " contact " > > with other KO's is a gentle step to take. Others find therapy, meditation > > groups, yoga, and even long distance running to be effective coping > tools. > > Personally, I find hiking in near a local vernal pool to helpful as well > as > > hours spent in my gardens. As Muir wrote, " Nature's peace will flow into > you > > as sunlight flows into trees. " > > > > Help others. This is another tricky step. It involves moving past your > own > > pain and developing empathy for others. BPD is a very self absorbed > mental > > state that rarely shows compassion. If one has been raised in such a > world > > trusting others can be a slippery slope. Some people select to be fund > > raisers for organizations that support battered children. Others write > about > > BPD in an attempt to remove the stigma. Many of us try to support each > other > > on the on-line boards. Take baby steps and do what feels like the " most > > right " action. > > > > Finally, LOVE. Healthy, loving relationships are the opposite of BPD! If > > loving humans feels scary (it can be frightening for those who have had > > " normal " families) start with smaller commitments. Nurture your house > > plants. Order seed catalogues (many come out in January) then plan and > plant > > a garden this Spring. Adopt a pet from the local shelter or rescue group. > > Volunteer with schools, churches, community service groups, or elderly > care > > programs. Surround yourself with people who laugh, love, and are > unafraid to > > live their lives. Reward yourself for surviving and moving past > dysfunction. > > Celebrate the fact that you have lived! Rejoice and weep no more! > > > > It does get better, > > > > MB > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Hey Twlya, What you just shared took the thoughts right out of my head. I am currently as we speak, dealing with the realization that the mother I thought had NEVER existed. I was always parenting her, and never seemed good enough, no matter how successful I have become. I feel you on every thing you speak of, including the " grief " process of someone who is still here with us in the present. I am in therapy and suffer from panic attacks due to this. I have been told that the key to this is that we as KO a nada, must just realize that any decision we make in life, as long as we can put our head on the pillow at night, we are halfway there. > > I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year. > > > > I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter > how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault. > > > > I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother > has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for > trying to help her now in her decline. > > > > Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last > year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life believing > my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif and > runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security. > > > > Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what your > believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in > reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more than > ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had > break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing > with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I > protected her from my father and brother most all my life. > > > > How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a > disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a > need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and > emotional health issues? > > > > All shares would be so appreciated right now.. > > > > Twyla > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Hi DCNY, I have suffered with panic attacks and Agoraphobia all my life..just I was high functioning. I am much better this last 5 yrs. with interludes of great realizations that have set me back BUT moved me forward in understanding WHY I had so much emotional disturbance all my life. It is not just Mom.Dad and paternal Gramma started it all..waaay back. They controlled my mother who lost her Mom at 12 yrs. my Dad was violent towards my brother who in turn was violent to me. Mom watched and never did a thing...I vowed I would be there for her.and have been all my life...Mom hung up on me for the last time one month today and I warned her over and over..not to continue this and her bad treatment of me. the story is long of how she has behaved so poorly and controlled. She has not called since neither have I...that is how much she has ever fought for me despite all the support I have shown because I felt sorry for her... Tonight DH & I were at our neighbor's whose daughter had her first baby 3 months back. The neighbor invited us to see the baby. I am in depression right now as I saw my neighbor friend holding her grandbaby with such love.and pictures all over the walls of her daughter. Not even a chance with me... I know I was in FOG....I know I cannot compare.. I just hurt but the pain is not constant now. Thanks for sharing... One day at a time. Twyla From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of dcny@... Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 08:15 PM To: WTOAdultChildren1 Subject: Re: What Do You Do? Hey Twlya, What you just shared took the thoughts right out of my head. I am currently as we speak, dealing with the realization that the mother I thought had NEVER existed. I was always parenting her, and never seemed good enough, no matter how successful I have become. I feel you on every thing you speak of, including the " grief " process of someone who is still here with us in the present. I am in therapy and suffer from panic attacks due to this. I have been told that the key to this is that we as KO a nada, must just realize that any decision we make in life, as long as we can put our head on the pillow at night, we are halfway there. > > I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year. > > > > I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter > how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault. > > > > I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother > has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for > trying to help her now in her decline. > > > > Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last > year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life believing > my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif and > runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security. > > > > Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what your > believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in > reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more than > ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had > break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing > with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I > protected her from my father and brother most all my life. > > > > How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a > disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a > need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and > emotional health issues? > > > > All shares would be so appreciated right now.. > > > > Twyla > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Dear Twyla, You are singing my song tonight! When I broke away from Nada and the dysfunctional FOO I swore to be the last link in the long chain of family dysfunction. The Chain of pain, sorrow, and mental illness would be broken forever because I refuse to be a part of it. When I married, we did not have children. I was too afraid and hurt at first. When I finally came to know my own strenght and worth and felt ready to be a mother, my husband felt too old to become a father! I could understand his angst as his father died when my husband was just ten years old. He wasn't going to repeat his past either! Now, as I approach 50 and my friends are all becoming grandparents. I'm going through " grandbaby envy. " I was never a real daughter. I was never a mother. I will never be a grandmother. I feel like I have missed every chance to know family love. Add that FOO has not spoken to me since they learned that nada left everything to the ASPCA and I am feeling as if the only family I did have has totally rejected me. While my ration brain says, " Hey these people were never close to you and just proved they were gold -diggers " my heart still screams, " Love me, please love me! " I want to toss a tantrum and cry, " Why can I be part of a family? " but what I really mean is " Gee, look at everyone else seeming to be surrounded by love and lots of people. Why aren't I? This is so cosmically unfair. Why am I still different after all these years and all this work to be as normal as possible? What kind of Karma is this? " Thank you for listening to me whine. MB Re: What Do You Do? Hey Twlya, What you just shared took the thoughts right out of my head. I am currently as we speak, dealing with the realization that the mother I thought had NEVER existed. I was always parenting her, and never seemed good enough, no matter how successful I have become. I feel you on every thing you speak of, including the " grief " process of someone who is still here with us in the present. I am in therapy and suffer from panic attacks due to this. I have been told that the key to this is that we as KO a nada, must just realize that any decision we make in life, as long as we can put our head on the pillow at night, we are halfway there. > > I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year. > > > > I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter > how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault. > > > > I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother > has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for > trying to help her now in her decline. > > > > Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last > year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life believing > my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif and > runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security. > > > > Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what your > believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in > reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more than > ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had > break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing > with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I > protected her from my father and brother most all my life. > > > > How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a > disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a > need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and > emotional health issues? > > > > All shares would be so appreciated right now.. > > > > Twyla > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 Dear MB, It is not a bother to listen or read. No worries please. How long have you been NC? Thank you for your email. I have a long reply in " save " ....I just cannot finish it right now. No energy. Twyla From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Rico and Beth Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 09:36 PM To: WTOAdultChildren1 Subject: Re: Re: What Do You Do? Dear Twyla, You are singing my song tonight! When I broke away from Nada and the dysfunctional FOO I swore to be the last link in the long chain of family dysfunction. The Chain of pain, sorrow, and mental illness would be broken forever because I refuse to be a part of it. When I married, we did not have children. I was too afraid and hurt at first. When I finally came to know my own strenght and worth and felt ready to be a mother, my husband felt too old to become a father! I could understand his angst as his father died when my husband was just ten years old. He wasn't going to repeat his past either! Now, as I approach 50 and my friends are all becoming grandparents. I'm going through " grandbaby envy. " I was never a real daughter. I was never a mother. I will never be a grandmother. I feel like I have missed every chance to know family love. Add that FOO has not spoken to me since they learned that nada left everything to the ASPCA and I am feeling as if the only family I did have has totally rejected me. While my ration brain says, " Hey these people were never close to you and just proved they were gold -diggers " my heart still screams, " Love me, please love me! " I want to toss a tantrum and cry, " Why can I be part of a family? " but what I really mean is " Gee, look at everyone else seeming to be surrounded by love and lots of people. Why aren't I? This is so cosmically unfair. Why am I still different after all these years and all this work to be as normal as possible? What kind of Karma is this? " Thank you for listening to me whine. MB Re: What Do You Do? Hey Twlya, What you just shared took the thoughts right out of my head. I am currently as we speak, dealing with the realization that the mother I thought had NEVER existed. I was always parenting her, and never seemed good enough, no matter how successful I have become. I feel you on every thing you speak of, including the " grief " process of someone who is still here with us in the present. I am in therapy and suffer from panic attacks due to this. I have been told that the key to this is that we as KO a nada, must just realize that any decision we make in life, as long as we can put our head on the pillow at night, we are halfway there. > > I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year. > > > > I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter > how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault. > > > > I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother > has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for > trying to help her now in her decline. > > > > Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last > year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life believing > my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif and > runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security. > > > > Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what your > believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in > reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more than > ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had > break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing > with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I > protected her from my father and brother most all my life. > > > > How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a > disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a > need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and > emotional health issues? > > > > All shares would be so appreciated right now.. > > > > Twyla > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 Feeling rejected is a painful place to be... I have been seeking approval from Nada's sisters my whole life. I spent much of my younger years with her sisters, who were in some way like sisters to me as we were all so close in age. After knowing what they know...after seeing what they have seen...after looking the other way while Nada inflicted her rage and abuse on both my brother and me, who are they to judge? And yet, I look to them for approval. Approval that will never come. I support Nada, financially, but it's not good enough. I have had no contact with Nada since moving to the west coast, for obvious reasons. And I am judged harshly for that. At what point do you stop looking for the approval/acceptance that will never come? At what point do you establish boundaries that allow you to live life in as much peace as possible? There has to come a point when the approval of others no longer matters....so long as you are living in a state of self-approval. With the latest drama of my Nada, my shrink asked me... " What can you live with? " That's the question you ask yourself, and remain resolute in the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 Hi Twyla, Fada walked out when I was 12. When he magiaclly reappeared six years later, I had to set strick boundaries. The relationship goes from medium Chill to NC depending on his stability and willingness to keep up with his medications and therapy. At 17 I left nada's home to to put myself through college. I began to set boundaries with nada. Nada never respected them and was highly abusive creating problems whenever and were ever she could including having the IRS audit my financial aid twice! From the early 1990's until she died (a seizure lead to a fall which lead to hypothermia) this August we were NC for the protection of myself and my husband. I look forward to your long reply when your energy returns. MB Dear MB, It is not a bother to listen or read. No worries please. How long have you been NC? Thank you for your email. I have a long reply in " save " ....I just cannot finish it right now. No energy. Twyla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 I gave up on getting my aunts' approval when I realized beyond a shadow of a doubt that they also didn't care about me. It hurt but that was that. On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Janice Hall janicehalldesigns@...>wrote: > ** > > > Feeling rejected is a painful place to be... > > I have been seeking approval from Nada's sisters my whole life. I spent > much of my younger years with her sisters, who were in some way like > sisters to me as we were all so close in age. > > After knowing what they know...after seeing what they have seen...after > looking the other way while Nada inflicted her rage and abuse on both my > brother and me, who are they to judge? > And yet, I look to them for approval. Approval that will never come. I > support Nada, financially, > but it's not good enough. I have had no contact with Nada since moving to > the west coast, for obvious reasons. And I am judged harshly for that. > > At what point do you stop looking for the approval/acceptance that will > never come? > At what point do you establish boundaries that allow you to live life in as > much peace as possible? There has to come a point when the approval of > others no longer matters....so long as you are living in a state of > self-approval. > > With the latest drama of my Nada, my shrink asked me... " What can you live > with? " > > That's the question you ask yourself, and remain resolute in the answer. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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