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I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year.

I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter

how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault.

I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother

has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for

trying to help her now in her decline.

Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last

year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life believing

my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif and

runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security.

Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what your

believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in

reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more than

ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had

break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing

with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I

protected her from my father and brother most all my life.

How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a

disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a

need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and

emotional health issues?

All shares would be so appreciated right now..

Twyla

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Twyla

This is so sad. Realizing the truth is the hard part. You can get through this.

> I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year.

>

> I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter

> how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault.

>

> I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother

> has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for

> trying to help her now in her decline.

>

> Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last

> year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life believing

> my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif and

> runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security.

>

> Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what your

> believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in

> reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more than

> ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had

> break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing

> with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I

> protected her from my father and brother most all my life.

>

> How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a

> disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a

> need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and

> emotional health issues?

>

> All shares would be so appreciated right now..

>

> Twyla

>

>

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Twyla,

I don't have any answers for you, because I am exactly where you are right

now.

Thank you for posting this, it helps me to not feel so alone.

Take care,

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of

millicentkunstler@...

Sent: November-21-12 8:14 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: What Do You Do?

Twyla

This is so sad. Realizing the truth is the hard part. You can get through

this.

On Nov 21, 2012, at 2:03 AM, " Twyla " resultsmayvary6@...

> wrote:

> I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year.

>

> I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter

> how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault.

>

> I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother

> has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for

> trying to help her now in her decline.

>

> Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last

> year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life

believing

> my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif

and

> runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security.

>

> Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what

your

> believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in

> reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more

than

> ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had

> break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing

> with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I

> protected her from my father and brother most all my life.

>

> How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a

> disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a

> need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and

> emotional health issues?

>

> All shares would be so appreciated right now..

>

> Twyla

>

>

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Share on other sites

My younger Sister was able to achieve that state of mind, that I think of as

" compassionate detachment. " I was not able to achieve it. I just couldn't

take nada anymore and badly needed to get away from her for the sake of my own

mental and physical health, and I cut contact.

But Sister had decided to go into therapy. Her therapist was able to help

Sister with her dilemma: Sister felt she wanted to and felt she needed to

remain in contact with our nada, but contact with our nada was making Sister

increasingly depressed. (It scared me how depressed Sister was becoming.)

So, somehow, Sister was able to make a big " paradigm shift " in her mental

landscape. Sister decided that in her heart, our mother had died, and Sister

mourned for our mother's death as though it was mother's physical death. She

then decided that this elderly, mentally ill person was one of her " clients. "

Sister is able to be very helpful and yet maintain a professional emotional

distance with her clients, so, that's how she chose to redefine her relationship

with our nada.

Being human, of course Sister was not able to achieve a complete, total

emotional break from our nada. Sister told me that the ugly, hateful things

nada said to Sister still hurt, but radically less than before. The two times I

visited Sister and nada together after going No Contact, I observed that my

Sister's demeanor had become just kind of practical and supervisory toward our

nada; it seemed that Sister was no longer taking what nada said to her

personally. She'd talk back to nada, but not in an angry, hurt way, just sort

of the way a very professional, no-nonsense nurse talks to a balky patient.

My Sister and I have quite different personalities, interests, lifestyles and

professional careers, and my Sister had had a somewhat different relationship

with our nada for our whole lives, than I did. Although Sister had been both

emotionally and physically abused by our nada, as I had, and pretty severely

abused, yet somehow they were emotionally closer to each other than nada had

ever been with me.

I was impressed, kind of envious (sibling rivalry?) and at the same time

intensely grateful that Sister actually wanted to remain in contact with our

nada.

I hope that you will find whatever path works best for you, and helps you heal,

whether your path includes contact with your nada or not.

-Annie

>

> I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year.

>

>

>

> I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter

> how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault.

>

>

>

> I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother

> has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for

> trying to help her now in her decline.

>

>

>

> Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last

> year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life believing

> my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif and

> runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security.

>

>

>

> Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what your

> believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in

> reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more than

> ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had

> break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing

> with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I

> protected her from my father and brother most all my life.

>

>

>

> How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a

> disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a

> need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and

> emotional health issues?

>

>

>

> All shares would be so appreciated right now..

>

>

>

> Twyla

>

>

>

>

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Dear Twyla,

My heart goes out to you and I long to hug and comfort you. It does feel rotten

and surreal when you realize that your " relationship " with your mother and your

family of origin has basically been lies, smoke, mirrors, and mist. The shame

and anger one feels with ones self is part of returning (first entering?)

normal. What does one do with these emotions? The short answer is to let them

go.

Start with forgiveness. Forgive the child you were. You were helpless and did

not know the actions and behaviors you witnessed were not normal. Forgive those

who were also unwitting victims of abuse.

Next, act from a place of love. Love and protect yourself. Love and protect your

children. Love and protect your spouse. Vow to be the last person the

dysfunction caused by BPD is to affect. If this means going no contact, so be

it. It takes strength but you already have it within you. Do whatever it takes

to make your home a place of serenity and safety. This is the scared nest from

which you will operate and to while you will return for rest. Let your home be

filled with love.

Reach out and KEEP ON reaching out until you find a means to cope with the pain.

You do not have to be alone or hide the family secret anymore. This step is very

difficult for those of us who have spent our lives protecting others. Reaching

out helps us to develop method of coping. On line " contact " with other KO's is

a gentle step to take. Others find therapy, meditation groups, yoga, and even

long distance running to be effective coping tools. Personally, I find hiking in

near a local vernal pool to helpful as well as hours spent in my gardens. As

Muir wrote, " Nature's peace will flow into you as sunlight flows into trees. "

Help others. This is another tricky step. It involves moving past your own pain

and developing empathy for others. BPD is a very self absorbed mental state that

rarely shows compassion. If one has been raised in such a world trusting others

can be a slippery slope. Some people select to be fund raisers for organizations

that support battered children. Others write about BPD in an attempt to remove

the stigma. Many of us try to support each other on the on-line boards. Take

baby steps and do what feels like the " most right " action.

Finally, LOVE. Healthy, loving relationships are the opposite of BPD! If loving

humans feels scary (it can be frightening for those who have had " normal "

families) start with smaller commitments. Nurture your house plants. Order seed

catalogues (many come out in January) then plan and plant a garden this Spring.

Adopt a pet from the local shelter or rescue group. Volunteer with schools,

churches, community service groups, or elderly care programs. Surround yourself

with people who laugh, love, and are unafraid to live their lives. Reward

yourself for surviving and moving past dysfunction. Celebrate the fact that you

have lived! Rejoice and weep no more!

It does get better,

MB

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Thank you ALL for your replies. Thank you Rico and Beth.

The support you have given here is what I need to read and hear again and

again. So easy to blame oneself.to say I missed something in my

interpretation, that mom is elderly...the list goes on. One thing I am now

able to do is NOT reach for the phone. I tried this NC last year but it

ended in less than 3 weeks and I was so full of anger when I reached mom

that I was a wreck..still trying to get her to " see " ..how she hurt me ...to

fix all and get that fast resolution I always strive for. It did not teach

her much except that I would always come back.

Now I am trying to take this one day at a time, many, many thoughts come

forward and I check myself often to make sure I have not mis-read or

over-generalized anything. I have trained mom to let myself be treated this

way because I was her emotional car- taker and always felt so sorry for the

way my father and grandma treated her. They are long dead..she behaves in

the manner that she was treated and has CHOSEN to continue. I cannot do

this anymore.

I just take the days as they come. I am angry at moments then sad, so

sad..then at peace then the cycle repeats. My DH does not understand fully

and is so sick of seeing me hurt over years that he says just " be done with

her already, I do not want to see you hurt anymore. " He also naively thinks

I can just shut the door on my feelings..maybe...not all at once.

Christmas is fast approaching and I will have to pass another milestone...

I have been quietly reading all you guys for over a year...I am grateful for

another Loop member's reference to this group as I have fortified and

educated myself a fair bit but the real test is here now.

I need time and isolation. Finally I have given this to myself.

Thank you all for your shares as we would be alone with our deepest hurts

without them.

Twyla.

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Rico and Beth

Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 09:41 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: What Do You Do?

Dear Twyla,

My heart goes out to you and I long to hug and comfort you. It does feel

rotten and surreal when you realize that your " relationship " with your

mother and your family of origin has basically been lies, smoke, mirrors,

and mist. The shame and anger one feels with ones self is part of returning

(first entering?) normal. What does one do with these emotions? The short

answer is to let them go.

Start with forgiveness. Forgive the child you were. You were helpless and

did not know the actions and behaviors you witnessed were not normal.

Forgive those who were also unwitting victims of abuse.

Next, act from a place of love. Love and protect yourself. Love and protect

your children. Love and protect your spouse. Vow to be the last person the

dysfunction caused by BPD is to affect. If this means going no contact, so

be it. It takes strength but you already have it within you. Do whatever it

takes to make your home a place of serenity and safety. This is the scared

nest from which you will operate and to while you will return for rest. Let

your home be filled with love.

Reach out and KEEP ON reaching out until you find a means to cope with the

pain. You do not have to be alone or hide the family secret anymore. This

step is very difficult for those of us who have spent our lives protecting

others. Reaching out helps us to develop method of coping. On line " contact "

with other KO's is a gentle step to take. Others find therapy, meditation

groups, yoga, and even long distance running to be effective coping tools.

Personally, I find hiking in near a local vernal pool to helpful as well as

hours spent in my gardens. As Muir wrote, " Nature's peace will flow into you

as sunlight flows into trees. "

Help others. This is another tricky step. It involves moving past your own

pain and developing empathy for others. BPD is a very self absorbed mental

state that rarely shows compassion. If one has been raised in such a world

trusting others can be a slippery slope. Some people select to be fund

raisers for organizations that support battered children. Others write about

BPD in an attempt to remove the stigma. Many of us try to support each other

on the on-line boards. Take baby steps and do what feels like the " most

right " action.

Finally, LOVE. Healthy, loving relationships are the opposite of BPD! If

loving humans feels scary (it can be frightening for those who have had

" normal " families) start with smaller commitments. Nurture your house

plants. Order seed catalogues (many come out in January) then plan and plant

a garden this Spring. Adopt a pet from the local shelter or rescue group.

Volunteer with schools, churches, community service groups, or elderly care

programs. Surround yourself with people who laugh, love, and are unafraid to

live their lives. Reward yourself for surviving and moving past dysfunction.

Celebrate the fact that you have lived! Rejoice and weep no more!

It does get better,

MB

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Share on other sites

Part of the problem, I will speak for myself, is that I am addicted to the drama

and the bad love of nut jobs. It is hard to cope with " just me " the emptiness

and not trying to help and fix. It gets easier bit that's why it's hard for us

to just close that door.

> Thank you ALL for your replies. Thank you Rico and Beth.

>

> The support you have given here is what I need to read and hear again and

> again. So easy to blame oneself.to say I missed something in my

> interpretation, that mom is elderly...the list goes on. One thing I am now

> able to do is NOT reach for the phone. I tried this NC last year but it

> ended in less than 3 weeks and I was so full of anger when I reached mom

> that I was a wreck..still trying to get her to " see " ..how she hurt me ...to

> fix all and get that fast resolution I always strive for. It did not teach

> her much except that I would always come back.

>

> Now I am trying to take this one day at a time, many, many thoughts come

> forward and I check myself often to make sure I have not mis-read or

> over-generalized anything. I have trained mom to let myself be treated this

> way because I was her emotional car- taker and always felt so sorry for the

> way my father and grandma treated her. They are long dead..she behaves in

> the manner that she was treated and has CHOSEN to continue. I cannot do

> this anymore.

>

> I just take the days as they come. I am angry at moments then sad, so

> sad..then at peace then the cycle repeats. My DH does not understand fully

> and is so sick of seeing me hurt over years that he says just " be done with

> her already, I do not want to see you hurt anymore. " He also naively thinks

> I can just shut the door on my feelings..maybe...not all at once.

>

> Christmas is fast approaching and I will have to pass another milestone...

>

> I have been quietly reading all you guys for over a year...I am grateful for

> another Loop member's reference to this group as I have fortified and

> educated myself a fair bit but the real test is here now.

>

> I need time and isolation. Finally I have given this to myself.

>

> Thank you all for your shares as we would be alone with our deepest hurts

> without them.

>

> Twyla.

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Rico and Beth

> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 09:41 AM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Subject: Re: What Do You Do?

>

> Dear Twyla,

>

> My heart goes out to you and I long to hug and comfort you. It does feel

> rotten and surreal when you realize that your " relationship " with your

> mother and your family of origin has basically been lies, smoke, mirrors,

> and mist. The shame and anger one feels with ones self is part of returning

> (first entering?) normal. What does one do with these emotions? The short

> answer is to let them go.

>

> Start with forgiveness. Forgive the child you were. You were helpless and

> did not know the actions and behaviors you witnessed were not normal.

> Forgive those who were also unwitting victims of abuse.

>

> Next, act from a place of love. Love and protect yourself. Love and protect

> your children. Love and protect your spouse. Vow to be the last person the

> dysfunction caused by BPD is to affect. If this means going no contact, so

> be it. It takes strength but you already have it within you. Do whatever it

> takes to make your home a place of serenity and safety. This is the scared

> nest from which you will operate and to while you will return for rest. Let

> your home be filled with love.

>

> Reach out and KEEP ON reaching out until you find a means to cope with the

> pain. You do not have to be alone or hide the family secret anymore. This

> step is very difficult for those of us who have spent our lives protecting

> others. Reaching out helps us to develop method of coping. On line " contact "

> with other KO's is a gentle step to take. Others find therapy, meditation

> groups, yoga, and even long distance running to be effective coping tools.

> Personally, I find hiking in near a local vernal pool to helpful as well as

> hours spent in my gardens. As Muir wrote, " Nature's peace will flow into you

> as sunlight flows into trees. "

>

> Help others. This is another tricky step. It involves moving past your own

> pain and developing empathy for others. BPD is a very self absorbed mental

> state that rarely shows compassion. If one has been raised in such a world

> trusting others can be a slippery slope. Some people select to be fund

> raisers for organizations that support battered children. Others write about

> BPD in an attempt to remove the stigma. Many of us try to support each other

> on the on-line boards. Take baby steps and do what feels like the " most

> right " action.

>

> Finally, LOVE. Healthy, loving relationships are the opposite of BPD! If

> loving humans feels scary (it can be frightening for those who have had

> " normal " families) start with smaller commitments. Nurture your house

> plants. Order seed catalogues (many come out in January) then plan and plant

> a garden this Spring. Adopt a pet from the local shelter or rescue group.

> Volunteer with schools, churches, community service groups, or elderly care

> programs. Surround yourself with people who laugh, love, and are unafraid to

> live their lives. Reward yourself for surviving and moving past dysfunction.

> Celebrate the fact that you have lived! Rejoice and weep no more!

>

> It does get better,

>

> MB

>

>

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Share on other sites

Hi Millicent,

I have run-on re-occurring thoughts and questions about the validity of my

present actions of NC because of fact she is my MOTHER and she is elderly (she

has my siblings to take care of her 800 miles away from us here)…….so guilt

is playing. It is hard for me to close the door because of this. I was

addicted to drama for sure…it was what I was taught. My DH never experienced

this (until he met the earlier me…ha ha, sad but true) so it must be easy for

him to rationalize this is not a good thing for me and ask why I still ponder. I

know he is frustrated with me but even HE bought into her for years. Now, no

longer.

Some of it certainly is because I had such devotion to her AND the mother

figure. I wanted/want a family of origin soooooo badly but not any longer if my

mental and physical health are affected. My health, as for most of us with

these types of loved ones, has taken a good beating for years in the way of

poor emotional habits that set my life’s negative attitude which has been

becoming more and more positive.

It just took such a long time for me to see all this, or perhaps to ADMIT it to

myself.

It is my turn to start to live.

All the best to ALL here…..

Twyla

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of

millicentkunstler@...

Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 06:40 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: What Do You Do?

Part of the problem, I will speak for myself, is that I am addicted to the drama

and the bad love of nut jobs. It is hard to cope with " just me " the emptiness

and not trying to help and fix. It gets easier bit that's why it's hard for us

to just close that door.

On Nov 21, 2012, at 11:22 PM, " Twyla " resultsmayvary6@...

> wrote:

> Thank you ALL for your replies. Thank you Rico and Beth.

>

> The support you have given here is what I need to read and hear again and

> again. So easy to blame oneself.to say I missed something in my

> interpretation, that mom is elderly...the list goes on. One thing I am now

> able to do is NOT reach for the phone. I tried this NC last year but it

> ended in less than 3 weeks and I was so full of anger when I reached mom

> that I was a wreck..still trying to get her to " see " ..how she hurt me ...to

> fix all and get that fast resolution I always strive for. It did not teach

> her much except that I would always come back.

>

> Now I am trying to take this one day at a time, many, many thoughts come

> forward and I check myself often to make sure I have not mis-read or

> over-generalized anything. I have trained mom to let myself be treated this

> way because I was her emotional car- taker and always felt so sorry for the

> way my father and grandma treated her. They are long dead..she behaves in

> the manner that she was treated and has CHOSEN to continue. I cannot do

> this anymore.

>

> I just take the days as they come. I am angry at moments then sad, so

> sad..then at peace then the cycle repeats. My DH does not understand fully

> and is so sick of seeing me hurt over years that he says just " be done with

> her already, I do not want to see you hurt anymore. " He also naively thinks

> I can just shut the door on my feelings..maybe...not all at once.

>

> Christmas is fast approaching and I will have to pass another milestone...

>

> I have been quietly reading all you guys for over a year...I am grateful for

> another Loop member's reference to this group as I have fortified and

> educated myself a fair bit but the real test is here now.

>

> I need time and isolation. Finally I have given this to myself.

>

> Thank you all for your shares as we would be alone with our deepest hurts

> without them.

>

> Twyla.

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1

] On Behalf Of Rico and Beth

> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 09:41 AM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Subject: Re: What Do You Do?

>

> Dear Twyla,

>

> My heart goes out to you and I long to hug and comfort you. It does feel

> rotten and surreal when you realize that your " relationship " with your

> mother and your family of origin has basically been lies, smoke, mirrors,

> and mist. The shame and anger one feels with ones self is part of returning

> (first entering?) normal. What does one do with these emotions? The short

> answer is to let them go.

>

> Start with forgiveness. Forgive the child you were. You were helpless and

> did not know the actions and behaviors you witnessed were not normal.

> Forgive those who were also unwitting victims of abuse.

>

> Next, act from a place of love. Love and protect yourself. Love and protect

> your children. Love and protect your spouse. Vow to be the last person the

> dysfunction caused by BPD is to affect. If this means going no contact, so

> be it. It takes strength but you already have it within you. Do whatever it

> takes to make your home a place of serenity and safety. This is the scared

> nest from which you will operate and to while you will return for rest. Let

> your home be filled with love.

>

> Reach out and KEEP ON reaching out until you find a means to cope with the

> pain. You do not have to be alone or hide the family secret anymore. This

> step is very difficult for those of us who have spent our lives protecting

> others. Reaching out helps us to develop method of coping. On line " contact "

> with other KO's is a gentle step to take. Others find therapy, meditation

> groups, yoga, and even long distance running to be effective coping tools.

> Personally, I find hiking in near a local vernal pool to helpful as well as

> hours spent in my gardens. As Muir wrote, " Nature's peace will flow into you

> as sunlight flows into trees. "

>

> Help others. This is another tricky step. It involves moving past your own

> pain and developing empathy for others. BPD is a very self absorbed mental

> state that rarely shows compassion. If one has been raised in such a world

> trusting others can be a slippery slope. Some people select to be fund

> raisers for organizations that support battered children. Others write about

> BPD in an attempt to remove the stigma. Many of us try to support each other

> on the on-line boards. Take baby steps and do what feels like the " most

> right " action.

>

> Finally, LOVE. Healthy, loving relationships are the opposite of BPD! If

> loving humans feels scary (it can be frightening for those who have had

> " normal " families) start with smaller commitments. Nurture your house

> plants. Order seed catalogues (many come out in January) then plan and plant

> a garden this Spring. Adopt a pet from the local shelter or rescue group.

> Volunteer with schools, churches, community service groups, or elderly care

> programs. Surround yourself with people who laugh, love, and are unafraid to

> live their lives. Reward yourself for surviving and moving past dysfunction.

> Celebrate the fact that you have lived! Rejoice and weep no more!

>

> It does get better,

>

> MB

>

>

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Share on other sites

Twyla,

I imagine all of us can feel your pain on this. But being a mother is more

than carrying, giving birth and torturing a child. It is loving,

supporting, encouraging, being there for the child. Mental abuse I feel

trumps the mother card. A mother doesn't have to give birth to a child as

long as she (or even he!) can be kind and supportive to that child and

bring the child up to feel worthwhile.

If you had a mother who was obsessive and controlling and diminishing, that

is a type of " MOTHER " too. The kind that shares our genetics but that

mother is the worst enemy of the child.

You can put down the guilt if you really put your mind to it. I appreciate

that you also have experienced the addictive quality of the ups and down

and shifts in the powergame that many of us have experienced with our

nutjobs.

My opinion comes from my experience. I don't know you or your mother. But I

feel if you were abused by your mother then you owe her nothing. Mother,

like thanksgiving and christmas are things blown up by hype and the human

need to control others. A mother is a friend who plays that supportive but

older position. If the mother abuses, she's not a mother and therefore I'm

not sensitive to the " but she's my mother after all " argument. She

forfeited that if she was anything like mine was.

> **

>

>

> Hi Millicent,

>

> I have run-on re-occurring thoughts and questions about the validity of my

> present actions of NC because of fact she is my MOTHER and she is elderly

> (she has my siblings to take care of her 800 miles away from us here)…….so

> guilt is playing. It is hard for me to close the door because of this. I

> was addicted to drama for sure…it was what I was taught. My DH never

> experienced this (until he met the earlier me…ha ha, sad but true) so it

> must be easy for him to rationalize this is not a good thing for me and ask

> why I still ponder. I know he is frustrated with me but even HE bought into

> her for years. Now, no longer.

>

> Some of it certainly is because I had such devotion to her AND the mother

> figure. I wanted/want a family of origin soooooo badly but not any longer

> if my mental and physical health are affected. My health, as for most of us

> with these types of loved ones, has taken a good beating for years in the

> way of poor emotional habits that set my life’s negative attitude which has

> been becoming more and more positive.

>

> It just took such a long time for me to see all this, or perhaps to ADMIT

> it to myself.

>

> It is my turn to start to live.

>

> All the best to ALL here…..

>

> Twyla

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:

> WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of

> millicentkunstler@...

> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 06:40 AM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Subject: Re: What Do You Do?

>

> Part of the problem, I will speak for myself, is that I am addicted to the

> drama and the bad love of nut jobs. It is hard to cope with " just me " the

> emptiness and not trying to help and fix. It gets easier bit that's why

> it's hard for us to just close that door.

>

> On Nov 21, 2012, at 11:22 PM, " Twyla " resultsmayvary6@...

resultsmayvary6%40gmail.com> > wrote:

>

> > Thank you ALL for your replies. Thank you Rico and Beth.

> >

> > The support you have given here is what I need to read and hear again and

> > again. So easy to blame oneself.to say I missed something in my

> > interpretation, that mom is elderly...the list goes on. One thing I am

> now

> > able to do is NOT reach for the phone. I tried this NC last year but it

> > ended in less than 3 weeks and I was so full of anger when I reached mom

> > that I was a wreck..still trying to get her to " see " ..how she hurt me

> ...to

> > fix all and get that fast resolution I always strive for. It did not

> teach

> > her much except that I would always come back.

> >

> > Now I am trying to take this one day at a time, many, many thoughts come

> > forward and I check myself often to make sure I have not mis-read or

> > over-generalized anything. I have trained mom to let myself be treated

> this

> > way because I was her emotional car- taker and always felt so sorry for

> the

> > way my father and grandma treated her. They are long dead..she behaves in

> > the manner that she was treated and has CHOSEN to continue. I cannot do

> > this anymore.

> >

> > I just take the days as they come. I am angry at moments then sad, so

> > sad..then at peace then the cycle repeats. My DH does not understand

> fully

> > and is so sick of seeing me hurt over years that he says just " be done

> with

> > her already, I do not want to see you hurt anymore. " He also naively

> thinks

> > I can just shut the door on my feelings..maybe...not all at once.

> >

> > Christmas is fast approaching and I will have to pass another

> milestone...

> >

> > I have been quietly reading all you guys for over a year...I am grateful

> for

> > another Loop member's reference to this group as I have fortified and

> > educated myself a fair bit but the real test is here now.

> >

> > I need time and isolation. Finally I have given this to myself.

> >

> > Thank you all for your shares as we would be alone with our deepest hurts

> > without them.

> >

> > Twyla.

> >

> > From: WTOAdultChildren1

WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1

WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Rico and Beth

> > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 09:41 AM

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: Re: What Do You Do?

> >

> > Dear Twyla,

> >

> > My heart goes out to you and I long to hug and comfort you. It does feel

> > rotten and surreal when you realize that your " relationship " with your

> > mother and your family of origin has basically been lies, smoke, mirrors,

> > and mist. The shame and anger one feels with ones self is part of

> returning

> > (first entering?) normal. What does one do with these emotions? The short

> > answer is to let them go.

> >

> > Start with forgiveness. Forgive the child you were. You were helpless and

> > did not know the actions and behaviors you witnessed were not normal.

> > Forgive those who were also unwitting victims of abuse.

> >

> > Next, act from a place of love. Love and protect yourself. Love and

> protect

> > your children. Love and protect your spouse. Vow to be the last person

> the

> > dysfunction caused by BPD is to affect. If this means going no contact,

> so

> > be it. It takes strength but you already have it within you. Do whatever

> it

> > takes to make your home a place of serenity and safety. This is the

> scared

> > nest from which you will operate and to while you will return for rest.

> Let

> > your home be filled with love.

> >

> > Reach out and KEEP ON reaching out until you find a means to cope with

> the

> > pain. You do not have to be alone or hide the family secret anymore. This

> > step is very difficult for those of us who have spent our lives

> protecting

> > others. Reaching out helps us to develop method of coping. On line

> " contact "

> > with other KO's is a gentle step to take. Others find therapy, meditation

> > groups, yoga, and even long distance running to be effective coping

> tools.

> > Personally, I find hiking in near a local vernal pool to helpful as well

> as

> > hours spent in my gardens. As Muir wrote, " Nature's peace will flow into

> you

> > as sunlight flows into trees. "

> >

> > Help others. This is another tricky step. It involves moving past your

> own

> > pain and developing empathy for others. BPD is a very self absorbed

> mental

> > state that rarely shows compassion. If one has been raised in such a

> world

> > trusting others can be a slippery slope. Some people select to be fund

> > raisers for organizations that support battered children. Others write

> about

> > BPD in an attempt to remove the stigma. Many of us try to support each

> other

> > on the on-line boards. Take baby steps and do what feels like the " most

> > right " action.

> >

> > Finally, LOVE. Healthy, loving relationships are the opposite of BPD! If

> > loving humans feels scary (it can be frightening for those who have had

> > " normal " families) start with smaller commitments. Nurture your house

> > plants. Order seed catalogues (many come out in January) then plan and

> plant

> > a garden this Spring. Adopt a pet from the local shelter or rescue group.

> > Volunteer with schools, churches, community service groups, or elderly

> care

> > programs. Surround yourself with people who laugh, love, and are

> unafraid to

> > live their lives. Reward yourself for surviving and moving past

> dysfunction.

> > Celebrate the fact that you have lived! Rejoice and weep no more!

> >

> > It does get better,

> >

> > MB

> >

> >

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Hey Twlya,

What you just shared took the thoughts right out of my head. I am currently as

we speak, dealing with the realization that the mother I thought had NEVER

existed.

I was always parenting her, and never seemed good enough, no matter how

successful I have become. I feel you on every thing you speak of, including the

" grief " process of someone who is still here with us in the present. I am in

therapy and suffer from panic attacks due to this. I have been told that the key

to this is that we as KO a nada, must just realize that any decision we make in

life, as long as we can put our head on the pillow at night, we are halfway

there.

>

> I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year.

>

>

>

> I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter

> how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault.

>

>

>

> I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother

> has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for

> trying to help her now in her decline.

>

>

>

> Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last

> year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life believing

> my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif and

> runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security.

>

>

>

> Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what your

> believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in

> reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more than

> ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had

> break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing

> with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I

> protected her from my father and brother most all my life.

>

>

>

> How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a

> disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a

> need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and

> emotional health issues?

>

>

>

> All shares would be so appreciated right now..

>

>

>

> Twyla

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Hi DCNY,

I have suffered with panic attacks and Agoraphobia all my life..just I was

high functioning. I am much better this last 5 yrs. with interludes of

great realizations that have set me back BUT moved me forward in

understanding WHY I had so much emotional disturbance all my life. It is

not just Mom.Dad and paternal Gramma started it all..waaay back. They

controlled my mother who lost her Mom at 12 yrs. my Dad was violent towards

my brother who in turn was violent to me. Mom watched and never did a

thing...I vowed I would be there for her.and have been all my life...Mom

hung up on me for the last time one month today and I warned her over and

over..not to continue this and her bad treatment of me. the story is long of

how she has behaved so poorly and controlled.

She has not called since neither have I...that is how much she has ever

fought for me despite all the support I have shown because I felt sorry for

her...

Tonight DH & I were at our neighbor's whose daughter had her first baby 3

months back. The neighbor invited us to see the baby.

I am in depression right now as I saw my neighbor friend holding her

grandbaby with such love.and pictures all over the walls of her daughter.

Not even a chance with me...

I know I was in FOG....I know I cannot compare..

I just hurt but the pain is not constant now.

Thanks for sharing...

One day at a time.

Twyla

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of dcny@...

Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 08:15 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: What Do You Do?

Hey Twlya,

What you just shared took the thoughts right out of my head. I am currently

as we speak, dealing with the realization that the mother I thought had

NEVER existed.

I was always parenting her, and never seemed good enough, no matter how

successful I have become. I feel you on every thing you speak of, including

the " grief " process of someone who is still here with us in the present. I

am in therapy and suffer from panic attacks due to this. I have been told

that the key to this is that we as KO a nada, must just realize that any

decision we make in life, as long as we can put our head on the pillow at

night, we are halfway there.

>

> I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year.

>

>

>

> I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter

> how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault.

>

>

>

> I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother

> has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for

> trying to help her now in her decline.

>

>

>

> Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last

> year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life

believing

> my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif

and

> runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security.

>

>

>

> Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what

your

> believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in

> reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more

than

> ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had

> break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing

> with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I

> protected her from my father and brother most all my life.

>

>

>

> How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a

> disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a

> need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and

> emotional health issues?

>

>

>

> All shares would be so appreciated right now..

>

>

>

> Twyla

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Twyla,

You are singing my song tonight!

When I broke away from Nada and the dysfunctional FOO I swore to be the last

link in the long chain of family dysfunction. The Chain of pain, sorrow, and

mental illness would be broken forever because I refuse to be a part of it.

When I married, we did not have children. I was too afraid and hurt at first.

When I finally came to know my own strenght and worth and felt ready to be a

mother, my husband felt too old to become a father! I could understand his angst

as his father died when my husband was just ten years old. He wasn't going to

repeat his past either!

Now, as I approach 50 and my friends are all becoming grandparents. I'm going

through " grandbaby envy. "

I was never a real daughter. I was never a mother. I will never be a

grandmother. I feel like I have missed every chance to know family love.

Add that FOO has not spoken to me since they learned that nada left everything

to the ASPCA and I am feeling as if the only family I did have has totally

rejected me. While my ration brain says, " Hey these people were never close to

you and just proved they were gold -diggers " my heart still screams, " Love me,

please love me! "

I want to toss a tantrum and cry, " Why can I be part of a family? " but what I

really mean is " Gee, look at everyone else seeming to be surrounded by love and

lots of people. Why aren't I? This is so cosmically unfair. Why am I still

different after all these years and all this work to be as normal as possible?

What kind of Karma is this? "

Thank you for listening to me whine.

MB

Re: What Do You Do?

Hey Twlya,

What you just shared took the thoughts right out of my head. I am currently

as we speak, dealing with the realization that the mother I thought had

NEVER existed.

I was always parenting her, and never seemed good enough, no matter how

successful I have become. I feel you on every thing you speak of, including

the " grief " process of someone who is still here with us in the present. I

am in therapy and suffer from panic attacks due to this. I have been told

that the key to this is that we as KO a nada, must just realize that any

decision we make in life, as long as we can put our head on the pillow at

night, we are halfway there.

>

> I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year.

>

>

>

> I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter

> how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault.

>

>

>

> I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother

> has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for

> trying to help her now in her decline.

>

>

>

> Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last

> year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life

believing

> my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif

and

> runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security.

>

>

>

> Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what

your

> believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in

> reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more

than

> ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had

> break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing

> with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I

> protected her from my father and brother most all my life.

>

>

>

> How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a

> disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a

> need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and

> emotional health issues?

>

>

>

> All shares would be so appreciated right now..

>

>

>

> Twyla

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear MB,

It is not a bother to listen or read. No worries please.

How long have you been NC?

Thank you for your email. I have a long reply in " save " ....I just cannot

finish it right now. No energy.

Twyla

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Rico and Beth

Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 09:36 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Re: What Do You Do?

Dear Twyla,

You are singing my song tonight!

When I broke away from Nada and the dysfunctional FOO I swore to be the last

link in the long chain of family dysfunction. The Chain of pain, sorrow, and

mental illness would be broken forever because I refuse to be a part of it.

When I married, we did not have children. I was too afraid and hurt at

first. When I finally came to know my own strenght and worth and felt ready

to be a mother, my husband felt too old to become a father! I could

understand his angst as his father died when my husband was just ten years

old. He wasn't going to repeat his past either!

Now, as I approach 50 and my friends are all becoming grandparents. I'm

going through " grandbaby envy. "

I was never a real daughter. I was never a mother. I will never be a

grandmother. I feel like I have missed every chance to know family love.

Add that FOO has not spoken to me since they learned that nada left

everything to the ASPCA and I am feeling as if the only family I did have

has totally rejected me. While my ration brain says, " Hey these people were

never close to you and just proved they were gold -diggers " my heart still

screams, " Love me, please love me! "

I want to toss a tantrum and cry, " Why can I be part of a family? " but what

I really mean is " Gee, look at everyone else seeming to be surrounded by

love and lots of people. Why aren't I? This is so cosmically unfair. Why am

I still different after all these years and all this work to be as normal as

possible? What kind of Karma is this? "

Thank you for listening to me whine.

MB

Re: What Do You Do?

Hey Twlya,

What you just shared took the thoughts right out of my head. I am currently

as we speak, dealing with the realization that the mother I thought had

NEVER existed.

I was always parenting her, and never seemed good enough, no matter how

successful I have become. I feel you on every thing you speak of, including

the " grief " process of someone who is still here with us in the present. I

am in therapy and suffer from panic attacks due to this. I have been told

that the key to this is that we as KO a nada, must just realize that any

decision we make in life, as long as we can put our head on the pillow at

night, we are halfway there.

>

> I have posted here before with a long Nada story..last year.

>

>

>

> I have come to realize that my mother will never be there for me no matter

> how much love or caring I give, I will always be at fault.

>

>

>

> I have gone NC for the first real time now for the last month. My mother

> has never fought for me. She is 86 now. I have been blamed yet again for

> trying to help her now in her decline.

>

>

>

> Presently I am full of such bad feelings after seeing through the FOG last

> year, then this year for certain that I have lived my entire life

believing

> my mother was someone other than who she is. My mother is a Hermit-Waif

and

> runs and hides every time she feels a threat to her security.

>

>

>

> Please tell me, how do you deal with knowing you cannot go back to what

your

> believed and hoped for an entire lifetime?.......there is no point in

> reconnecting to Nada as there is no substance, only deflection now more

than

> ever since I called her game too often in the past year when I had

> break-through in understanding for the first time that I was not dealing

> with a rational mature adult..I was the mother, she was my child. I

> protected her from my father and brother most all my life.

>

>

>

> How do you deal with a death that has not even happened yet in reality..a

> disconnect that has to happen to keep your sanity AND your integrity AND a

> need to break a pattern in the FOO that has caused life-long hurt and

> emotional health issues?

>

>

>

> All shares would be so appreciated right now..

>

>

>

> Twyla

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Feeling rejected is a painful place to be...

I have been seeking approval from Nada's sisters my whole life. I spent

much of my younger years with her sisters, who were in some way like

sisters to me as we were all so close in age.

After knowing what they know...after seeing what they have seen...after

looking the other way while Nada inflicted her rage and abuse on both my

brother and me, who are they to judge?

And yet, I look to them for approval. Approval that will never come. I

support Nada, financially,

but it's not good enough. I have had no contact with Nada since moving to

the west coast, for obvious reasons. And I am judged harshly for that.

At what point do you stop looking for the approval/acceptance that will

never come?

At what point do you establish boundaries that allow you to live life in as

much peace as possible? There has to come a point when the approval of

others no longer matters....so long as you are living in a state of

self-approval.

With the latest drama of my Nada, my shrink asked me... " What can you live

with? "

That's the question you ask yourself, and remain resolute in the answer.

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Hi Twyla,

Fada walked out when I was 12. When he magiaclly reappeared six years later, I

had to set strick boundaries. The relationship goes from medium Chill to NC

depending on his stability and willingness to keep up with his medications and

therapy.

At 17 I left nada's home to to put myself through college. I began to set

boundaries with nada. Nada never respected them and was highly abusive creating

problems whenever and were ever she could including having the IRS audit my

financial aid twice! From the early 1990's until she died (a seizure lead to a

fall which lead to hypothermia) this August we were NC for the protection of

myself and my husband.

I look forward to your long reply when your energy returns.

MB

Dear MB,

It is not a bother to listen or read. No worries please.

How long have you been NC?

Thank you for your email. I have a long reply in " save " ....I just cannot

finish it right now. No energy.

Twyla

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I gave up on getting my aunts' approval when I realized beyond a shadow of

a doubt that they also didn't care about me. It hurt but that was that.

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Janice Hall janicehalldesigns@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> Feeling rejected is a painful place to be...

>

> I have been seeking approval from Nada's sisters my whole life. I spent

> much of my younger years with her sisters, who were in some way like

> sisters to me as we were all so close in age.

>

> After knowing what they know...after seeing what they have seen...after

> looking the other way while Nada inflicted her rage and abuse on both my

> brother and me, who are they to judge?

> And yet, I look to them for approval. Approval that will never come. I

> support Nada, financially,

> but it's not good enough. I have had no contact with Nada since moving to

> the west coast, for obvious reasons. And I am judged harshly for that.

>

> At what point do you stop looking for the approval/acceptance that will

> never come?

> At what point do you establish boundaries that allow you to live life in as

> much peace as possible? There has to come a point when the approval of

> others no longer matters....so long as you are living in a state of

> self-approval.

>

> With the latest drama of my Nada, my shrink asked me... " What can you live

> with? "

>

> That's the question you ask yourself, and remain resolute in the answer.

>

>

>

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