For those whose bpd mother also has narcissistic pd traits

[Guest guest]

For you newer members who may not have read this yet, here is the link to an

article called " The Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers. " Its a list of 20

traits and behaviors common to those with npd. My nada had most of them.

https://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

Here is an excerpt:

Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers

1. Everything she does is deniable. There is always a facile excuse or an

explanation. Cruelties are couched in loving terms. Aggressive and hostile acts

are paraded as thoughtfulness. Selfish manipulations are presented as gifts.

Criticism and slander is slyly disguised as concern. She only wants what is best

for you. She only wants to help you.

She rarely says right out that she thinks you're inadequate. Instead, any time

that you tell her you've done something good, she counters with something your

sibling did that was better or she simply ignores you or she hears you out

without saying anything, then in a short time does something cruel to you so you

understand not to get above yourself. She will carefully separate cause (your

joy in your accomplishment) from effect (refusing to let you borrow the car to

go to the awards ceremony) by enough time that someone who didn't live through

her abuse would never believe the connection.

Many of her putdowns are simply by comparison. She'll talk about how wonderful

someone else is or what a wonderful job they did on something you've also done

or how highly she thinks of them. The contrast is left up to you. She has let

you know that you're no good without saying a word. She'll spoil your pleasure

in something by simply congratulating you for it in an angry, envious voice that

conveys how unhappy she is, again, completely deniably. It is impossible to

confront someone over their tone of voice, their demeanor or they way they look

at you, but once your narcissistic mother has you trained, she can promise

terrible punishment without a word. As a result, you're always afraid, always in

the wrong, and can never exactly put your finger on why.

Because her abusiveness is part of a lifelong campaign of control and because

she is careful to rationalize her abuse, it is extremely difficult to explain to

other people what is so bad about her. She's also careful about when and how she

engages in her abuses. She's very secretive, a characteristic of almost all

abusers ( " Don't wash our dirty laundry in public! " ) and will punish you for

telling anyone else what she's done. The times and locations of her worst abuses

are carefully chosen so that no one who might intervene will hear or see her bad

behavior, and she will seem like a completely different person in public. She'll

slam you to other people, but will always embed her devaluing nuggets of snide

gossip in protestations of concern, love and understanding ( " I feel so sorry for

poor . She always seems to have such a hard time, but I just don't know

what I can do for her! " ) As a consequence the children of narcissists

universally report that no one believes them ( " I have to tell you that she

always talks about YOU in the most caring way!). Unfortunately therapists, given

the deniable actions of the narcissist and eager to defend a fellow parent, will

often jump to the narcissist's defense as well, reinforcing your sense of

isolation and helplessness ( " I'm sure she didn't mean it like that! " )

*****

Its not uncommon for someone who has bpd to have a co-morbidity of another

personality disorder or mental illness (co-morbid=two together, or more than one

at the same time) or have some traits of other pds without sufficient frequency

or intensity to qualify as a true co-morbidity.

My nada was (I believe) both a " Queen " and a " Witch " sub-type of bpd (based on

the book " Understanding The Borderline Mother " ). A " Queen " has borderline pd +

narcissistic pd, and a " Witch " has borderline pd + antisocial pd.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

I trimmed your message a bit but kept the parts that speak to me the most. Today

is Thanksgiving and I'd rather run away. It was going to be nice when we planned

things a couple of weeks ago. Daughter and her husband were going to his

family's house because it's his Dad's last Thanksgiving. Perfectly

understandable. Our son and his family wanted to come over and fix a simple

dinner and just hang out. Then we were going to take some goodies to nada this

afternoon.

BOOM! Daughter invites herself and family over but then our son gets upset

because her husband is a douche bag and is hard to be around (where's Ann

Landers when you need her? LOL). Plus daughter and one of her sons are very

sick. I asked her if it was a good idea to come over while she's sick; perhaps

she should ask son/brother and his wife if they're OK with their kids being

around the germs? Trying to be tactful here. That blew up in my face. She writes

and says, fine, we'll stay home. Then she adds (on facebook) that it looks like

her germs aren't welcome at our house. I had also mentioned that she might ask

how her inlaws feel about being exposed since the Dad is extremely compromised

from the cancer. Whatever.

Then yesterday nada tells me, " Don't worry about coming over. I'm going to just

settle in and eat a sandwich. You enjoy spending time with your family. I'm not

really family; I don't know what I am but you have a good time. " Obvious martyr

mentality and manipulation. The fact is she hates kids and we will have kids and

talkative adults. She gets downright rude if a family sits near us in a

restaurant. If we're at a store and several people are talking to each other and

not focused on her, she gets angry. I know what would happen if she came to our

house. She would pout, she would get one of her headaches and insist on being

taken home. Do I really want to deal with this? No!

Instead I sit here and gripe and moan to you all. Anyway, she'll tell the

neighbors that she spent the day at home alone. They'll feel sorry for her. She

won't mention the fact that she told us not to come over. As usual I'll be the

bad guy.

I know what I'm asking Santa for Christmas and it isn't very nice.

Oh yeah: one last thing. On the phone yesterday she said she had been working

on the puzzle in the patio, came into the house and just froze. She had this

horrible feeling that something terrible was going to happen to her. And that it

was going to be something I did to her. She said she couldn't move and just

stood there and shook. Another one of her famous premonitions I guess.

>

> For you newer members who may not have read this yet, here is the link to an

article called " The Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers. " Its a list of 20

traits and behaviors common to those with npd. My nada had most of them.

>

> https://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

>

> Here is an excerpt:

>

> Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers

>

> 1. Everything she does is deniable. There is always a facile excuse or an

explanation.

>

She rarely says right out that she thinks you're inadequate.

>

> Many of her putdowns are simply by comparison. She'll talk about how wonderful

someone else is or what a wonderful job they did on something you've also done

or how highly she thinks of them. It is impossible to confront someone over

their tone of voice, their demeanor or they way they look at you, but once your

narcissistic mother has you trained, she can promise terrible punishment without

a word. As a result, you're always afraid, always in the wrong, and can never

exactly put your finger on why.

>

> Because her abusiveness is part of a lifelong campaign of control and because

she is careful to rationalize her abuse, it is extremely difficult to explain to

other people what is so bad about her. She's also careful about when and how she

engages in her abuses. She'll slam you to other people, but will always embed

her devaluing nuggets of snide gossip in protestations of concern, love and

understanding

>

[Guest guest]

Oh god, the kicker at the end, trying to go waifish and make you feel guilty for

something you haven't even done just because she FEELs it. You should respond,

" that reminds me of a dream I had the other night, where you kept drilling a

hole in my head while I slept and tried to steal my soul. Do you think our

dreams are related? "