I gave you life so I can take it away

[Guest guest]

I was just remembering how Nada used to threaten that all the time. It still

haunts me. Se thinks that having given birth to me gave her the right to

threaten to kill me. Further, she thought it was a funny joke and would repeat

it all the time. *** shudder***

[Guest guest]

I heard this one all the time as well. There are two events that haunt me most.

The time that I came closest to death was the day she beat me with a hammer.

IShe had ordered me to install instulation in the crawl space beneath the farm

house. When I bulked at the spiders and broken glass in the space, WHAMMO! I

completed that job with broken ribs and a dislovated shoulder that never healed

correctly. The second even gave me nightmares and flashbacks for years. I don't

recall what set nada off but she locked me in a room with no light, heat,

clothing, food or water. There was one very small and high window that I could

not reach and was frightend that if I did get out people would think I was crazy

for running around with no clothing.

Looking back now that I understand BPD I can see how very sick nada was. When

she was in Witch Phase, which was almost every evening, my life really was in

danger. It's hard not to hate that part of her even if she was mentally ill.

That leads me to another odd ball question. What happens to the mentally ill

after they die? I've heard countless sermons on how physical suffering ends in

heaven. What about mental illness? Is it cured too? Nada had turned her back on

religion and later on God too. She did some good things in her life but the best

I can eek out of my heart is thinking that maybe she is in Purgatory with a lot

of work to do. Any thoughts?

MB

[Guest guest]

Don't know about the afterlife. In this life though I know Nada suffers

immensely. Earlier this week My brother and I discussed at length whether we

could come up with any positive traits or good things Nada had done in her life.

We came up with hardworking and punctual, with no good tasks ever completed.

Really sad. Our Nada in her bad moments was not as extreme as yours- but she had

no good moments either. So it's hard to say which is more painful- I think

probably equally so overall. In so sorry you went through that MB. What a

horrible story. I am so glad you are finding peace and validation here.

>

> I heard this one all the time as well. There are two events that haunt me

most. The time that I came closest to death was the day she beat me with a

hammer. IShe had ordered me to install instulation in the crawl space beneath

the farm house. When I bulked at the spiders and broken glass in the space,

WHAMMO! I completed that job with broken ribs and a dislovated shoulder that

never healed correctly. The second even gave me nightmares and flashbacks for

years. I don't recall what set nada off but she locked me in a room with no

light, heat, clothing, food or water. There was one very small and high window

that I could not reach and was frightend that if I did get out people would

think I was crazy for running around with no clothing.

>

> Looking back now that I understand BPD I can see how very sick nada was. When

she was in Witch Phase, which was almost every evening, my life really was in

danger. It's hard not to hate that part of her even if she was mentally ill.

>

> That leads me to another odd ball question. What happens to the mentally ill

after they die? I've heard countless sermons on how physical suffering ends in

heaven. What about mental illness? Is it cured too? Nada had turned her back on

religion and later on God too. She did some good things in her life but the best

I can eek out of my heart is thinking that maybe she is in Purgatory with a lot

of work to do. Any thoughts?

>

> MB

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

((((( Beth)))))

I'm so sorry, MB. Your pd mother was unfortunately way over into the criminal

child abuse end of the spectrum.

Assaulting you with a hammer, injuring you so badly and then not get you the

medical attention you needed was criminal child abuse, assault and battery.

Your nada must have been aware that she would have been arrested if the truth

came out, so she kept you from seeing a doctor. That level of self-interest,

child mistreatment and neglect screams " psychopathy " to me: an even more serious

and dangerous/potentially deadly situation for a vulnerable, helpless, trusting

child to be in.

Truly, you should have been rescued and removed from her " care " for your own

safety. Locking you up naked to perhaps starve or die of dehydration is also

extremely indicative that your mother was way too mentally ill to have been

raising a child alone and unsupervised. I'm so sorry. No child should have to

endure such treatment. You are lucky to even be alive, really.

I wish that there was some kind of system in place to supervise or monitor

parents, particularly if there is no spouse, no other adult, no extended family

that is involved with the child or cares about the child's welfare. A child has

no chance against a severely mentally ill parent who can trigger into such

violent aggression and harsh punishment toward them; no chance at all.

Just so you know, there is a separate Group at WTO for those who wish to discuss

having a bpd loved one from a Christian perspective. Since this particular

Group is supporting KOs of many different religious faiths, including agnostics

and atheists, religious discussions in the past have tended to wind up causing

friction; the discussions can so easily morph into debates in which various

members feel the need to defend, explain or argue about their differing

religious or philosophical beliefs.

Religious discussions seem to fare better here when members just state what has

worked or is working for them, in their own situation, and avoid promoting their

own religious beliefs as the only way, the best way, or the right way to

believe, and carefully avoid disparaging the beliefs of others.

-Annie

>

> I heard this one all the time as well. There are two events that haunt me

most. The time that I came closest to death was the day she beat me with a

hammer. IShe had ordered me to install instulation in the crawl space beneath

the farm house. When I bulked at the spiders and broken glass in the space,

WHAMMO! I completed that job with broken ribs and a dislovated shoulder that

never healed correctly. The second even gave me nightmares and flashbacks for

years. I don't recall what set nada off but she locked me in a room with no

light, heat, clothing, food or water. There was one very small and high window

that I could not reach and was frightend that if I did get out people would

think I was crazy for running around with no clothing.

>

> Looking back now that I understand BPD I can see how very sick nada was. When

she was in Witch Phase, which was almost every evening, my life really was in

danger. It's hard not to hate that part of her even if she was mentally ill.

>

> That leads me to another odd ball question. What happens to the mentally ill

after they die? I've heard countless sermons on how physical suffering ends in

heaven. What about mental illness? Is it cured too? Nada had turned her back on

religion and later on God too. She did some good things in her life but the best

I can eek out of my heart is thinking that maybe she is in Purgatory with a lot

of work to do. Any thoughts?

>

> MB

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks you MDG. I'm glad you have a brother to turn to. For what it is worth, my

nada was punctual and hard working as well. She was driven by her fears of

falling back into a past of poverty and abuse. At times I feel very sorry for

her. I know her past drove her crazy but just knowing she was mentally ill does

not wipe out all that happened.

MB

Re: " I gave you life so I can take it away "

Don't know about the afterlife. In this life though I know Nada suffers

immensely. Earlier this week My brother and I discussed at length whether we

could come up with any positive traits or good things Nada had done in her life.

We came up with hardworking and punctual, with no good tasks ever completed.

Really sad. Our Nada in her bad moments was not as extreme as yours- but she had

no good moments either. So it's hard to say which is more painful- I think

probably equally so overall. In so sorry you went through that MB. What a

horrible story. I am so glad you are finding peace and validation here.

>

> I heard this one all the time as well. There are two events that haunt me

most. The time that I came closest to death was the day she beat me with a

hammer. IShe had ordered me to install instulation in the crawl space beneath

the farm house. When I bulked at the spiders and broken glass in the space,

WHAMMO! I completed that job with broken ribs and a dislovated shoulder that

never healed correctly. The second even gave me nightmares and flashbacks for

years. I don't recall what set nada off but she locked me in a room with no

light, heat, clothing, food or water. There was one very small and high window

that I could not reach and was frightend that if I did get out people would

think I was crazy for running around with no clothing.

>

> Looking back now that I understand BPD I can see how very sick nada was.

When she was in Witch Phase, which was almost every evening, my life really was

in danger. It's hard not to hate that part of her even if she was mentally ill.

>

> That leads me to another odd ball question. What happens to the mentally ill

after they die? I've heard countless sermons on how physical suffering ends in

heaven. What about mental illness? Is it cured too? Nada had turned her back on

religion and later on God too. She did some good things in her life but the best

I can eek out of my heart is thinking that maybe she is in Purgatory with a lot

of work to do. Any thoughts?

>

> MB

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, I'm speechless...my Nada has said those exact same words to me.

Exact. Do Nadas have a handbook?

When we lived in the same city, Nada would tell me she was going to come to

my house while I was sleeping. She'd bring a can of gasoline and a match

and watch from the driveway while I screamed being burned to death.

Now that I'm living on the other side of the country that isn't an option

for her. Recently she told me I should kill myself. She suggested I slice

my jugular as I would " bleed out in three minutes " . She did, however, ask

me to call her right after I sliced my jugular so she could listen to me

gurgle my last breath.

Needless to say, I didn't do it...

[Guest guest]

Jeepers Creepers! Nada's can say the menaest things! Warm hugs to you Janice and

thank you for NOT taking your nada's advice.

Hollywood has never made a horror film as sick as a nada's mind!

MB

[Guest guest]

The film(s) should be made....

[Guest guest]

Wow. Thank you all for sharing. I was told/threatened with this on a regular

basis from 9 to 18. After I had moved she would threaten to come and do

physical harm. It wasn't until I moved to the other side of the country that

she stopped saying it. I thought she had grown out of it, I now realize be a

previous post on this thread it was due to the impracticality of her flying

3,000 miles to do it.

To this day female aggression is scarier than male aggression in my mind. And in

reading these posts it has helped me to see why I don't get a long with certain

type of women or authority.

Thank you for helping me on my journey of peace!

Blessings to all of you!

MyReality

>

> I was just remembering how Nada used to threaten that all the time. It still

haunts me. Se thinks that having given birth to me gave her the right to

threaten to kill me. Further, she thought it was a funny joke and would repeat

it all the time. *** shudder***

>

[Guest guest]

Beth,

I am truly thankful that you are still with us to share and be a testimony for

overcoming!

I am speechless to what you had to endure. You are here for an amazing purpose.

Wishing you joy, love, peace and blessings.

MyReality

>

> I heard this one all the time as well. There are two events that haunt me

most. The time that I came closest to death was the day she beat me with a

hammer. IShe had ordered me to install instulation in the crawl space beneath

the farm house. When I bulked at the spiders and broken glass in the space,

WHAMMO! I completed that job with broken ribs and a dislovated shoulder that

never healed correctly. The second even gave me nightmares and flashbacks for

years. I don't recall what set nada off but she locked me in a room with no

light, heat, clothing, food or water. There was one very small and high window

that I could not reach and was frightend that if I did get out people would

think I was crazy for running around with no clothing.

>

> Looking back now that I understand BPD I can see how very sick nada was. When

she was in Witch Phase, which was almost every evening, my life really was in

danger. It's hard not to hate that part of her even if she was mentally ill.

>

> That leads me to another odd ball question. What happens to the mentally ill

after they die? I've heard countless sermons on how physical suffering ends in

heaven. What about mental illness? Is it cured too? Nada had turned her back on

religion and later on God too. She did some good things in her life but the best

I can eek out of my heart is thinking that maybe she is in Purgatory with a lot

of work to do. Any thoughts?

>

> MB

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

They say the meanest things and the insults are so familiar. I heard that one,

only I think Nada said something, like " I brought you in and I can take you

out " .

There are still more cute sayings I remember from time to time. Not too long

ago, another one of her favorites came to me...during her meltdowns she would

scream, " You are like a bad dream-GO AWAY! "

The older I get the more disgusted I am by her actions. I would never say that

to a child, or anyone actually. Over the holiday, I imagine she glommed onto a

friends family and told them how horrible I am to her. Mm-hm. She has not, and

will never admit that she has done anything wrong. Always the innocent Nada.

>

> Jeepers Creepers! Nada's can say the menaest things! Warm hugs to you Janice

and thank you for NOT taking your nada's advice.

>

> Hollywood has never made a horror film as sick as a nada's mind!

>

> MB

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I hear you loud and clear...

The things Nada has said to me over the years...well, nobody should ever

have to hear what I've heard much less from your Mother.

Nadas rage and have zero impulse control. They go for the shock value. At

some level, they know what they're doing/saying is wrong but, in the heat

of the moment, they don't care.

[Guest guest]

These are some scary stories! I'm so sorry to all of you! My Nada was more of

the obliquely threatening than explicitly murderous variety. She just thought

this phrase was a funny thing to say but she didnt have any intention of

actually killing me, or if she dis she never acted on it. Nutty...

>

> The film(s) should be made....

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My Reality,

You wrote, " To this day female aggression is scarier than male aggression in my

mind. And in reading these posts it has helped me to see why I don't get a long

with certain type of women or authority. "

I deeply admire your honesty. for I too feel this way.

Thank you for your compassionate in regard to my past.

May you also find joy, love, peace and blessings,

MB

Re: " I gave you life so I can take it away "

Wow. Thank you all for sharing. I was told/threatened with this on a regular

basis from 9 to 18. After I had moved she would threaten to come and do physical

harm. It wasn't until I moved to the other side of the country that she stopped

saying it. I thought she had grown out of it, I now realize be a previous post

on this thread it was due to the impracticality of her flying 3,000 miles to do

it.

To this day female aggression is scarier than male aggression in my mind. And

in reading these posts it has helped me to see why I don't get a long with

certain type of women or authority.

Thank you for helping me on my journey of peace!

Blessings to all of you!

MyReality

>

> I was just remembering how Nada used to threaten that all the time. It still

haunts me. Se thinks that having given birth to me gave her the right to

threaten to kill me. Further, she thought it was a funny joke and would repeat

it all the time. *** shudder***

>

[Guest guest]

WOW, MB! That is horrific! I can't imagine treating my children that way.

One is so like nada it scares me that he'll have BPD and I still would never

harm him. I'm so sorry you have to deal with those memories. Sometimes I

feel guilty going NC when my nada did nothing physically harmful to me like

that - but if you got away alive you should be very thankful! L

Warning: I'm a Christian. . . From what I understand of the Bible there is

no way to know how God deals with mental illness. If He chooses to give

them a pass because of their child-like mental illness it would seem unfair

to the rest of us. However, my nada is very religious in the sense that she

reads her Bible and acts like she and God are tight but yet she still turns

on people and treats them so horribly that you can't imagine she really

" gets " the whole " love one another " thing. It has been very difficult for

me to understand how she could live in both worlds and I honestly thought

she was demon-possessed for a while. They talk about it all the time in the

Bible, why not? All I can do is remember that God is just and will do the

right thing and I'm glad I'm not the judge!

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Thank you very much for your reply. You have me giggling as the number of time

when I've pondered, " Is nada demon possessed? " is far higher than I care to

admit!

Beth

WOW, MB! That is horrific! I can't imagine treating my children that way.

One is so like nada it scares me that he'll have BPD and I still would never

harm him. I'm so sorry you have to deal with those memories. Sometimes I

feel guilty going NC when my nada did nothing physically harmful to me like

that - but if you got away alive you should be very thankful! L

Warning: I'm a Christian. . . From what I understand of the Bible there is

no way to know how God deals with mental illness. If He chooses to give

them a pass because of their child-like mental illness it would seem unfair

to the rest of us. However, my nada is very religious in the sense that she

reads her Bible and acts like she and God are tight but yet she still turns

on people and treats them so horribly that you can't imagine she really

" gets " the whole " love one another " thing. It has been very difficult for

me to understand how she could live in both worlds and I honestly thought

she was demon-possessed for a while. They talk about it all the time in the

Bible, why not? All I can do is remember that God is just and will do the

right thing and I'm glad I'm not the judge!

[Guest guest]

So I am NOT the only one who has wondered about possession as it relates to my

nada! The rages make me wonder.

I posted that question on the WTOChristian group page a few days back and got

the feeling I was the only one who even dared to ask it.

Sandy

Sent from my iPhone

> Dear ,

>

> Thank you very much for your reply. You have me giggling as the number of time

when I've pondered, " Is nada demon possessed? " is far higher than I care to

admit!

>

> Beth

>

> WOW, MB! That is horrific! I can't imagine treating my children that way.

> One is so like nada it scares me that he'll have BPD and I still would never

> harm him. I'm so sorry you have to deal with those memories. Sometimes I

> feel guilty going NC when my nada did nothing physically harmful to me like

> that - but if you got away alive you should be very thankful! L

>

> Warning: I'm a Christian. . . From what I understand of the Bible there is

> no way to know how God deals with mental illness. If He chooses to give

> them a pass because of their child-like mental illness it would seem unfair

> to the rest of us. However, my nada is very religious in the sense that she

> reads her Bible and acts like she and God are tight but yet she still turns

> on people and treats them so horribly that you can't imagine she really

> " gets " the whole " love one another " thing. It has been very difficult for

> me to understand how she could live in both worlds and I honestly thought

> she was demon-possessed for a while. They talk about it all the time in the

> Bible, why not? All I can do is remember that God is just and will do the

> right thing and I'm glad I'm not the judge!

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My feeling is nadas are possessed by narcissism...

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Sondra bpddaughter@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> So I am NOT the only one who has wondered about possession as it relates

> to my nada! The rages make me wonder.

> I posted that question on the WTOChristian group page a few days back and

> got the feeling I was the only one who even dared to ask it.

>

> Sandy

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

> On Nov 25, 2012, at 12:31 PM, " Rico and Beth " rama@...>

> wrote:

>

> > Dear ,

> >

> > Thank you very much for your reply. You have me giggling as the number

> of time when I've pondered, " Is nada demon possessed? " is far higher than I

> care to admit!

> >

> > Beth

> >

> > WOW, MB! That is horrific! I can't imagine treating my children that

> way.

> > One is so like nada it scares me that he'll have BPD and I still would

> never

> > harm him. I'm so sorry you have to deal with those memories. Sometimes I

> > feel guilty going NC when my nada did nothing physically harmful to me

> like

> > that - but if you got away alive you should be very thankful! L

> >

> > Warning: I'm a Christian. . . From what I understand of the Bible there

> is

> > no way to know how God deals with mental illness. If He chooses to give

> > them a pass because of their child-like mental illness it would seem

> unfair

> > to the rest of us. However, my nada is very religious in the sense that

> she

> > reads her Bible and acts like she and God are tight but yet she still

> turns

> > on people and treats them so horribly that you can't imagine she really

> > " gets " the whole " love one another " thing. It has been very difficult

> for

> > me to understand how she could live in both worlds and I honestly

> thought

> > she was demon-possessed for a while. They talk about it all the time in

> the

> > Bible, why not? All I can do is remember that God is just and will do

> the

> > right thing and I'm glad I'm not the judge!

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, possessed by narcissism, or worse.

I've read some of what Dr. Hare has written about psychopathy; a whole

section of his diagnostic tool called the " Hare psychopathy checklist " is

basically a list of NARCISSISTIC PD TRAITS (!!)

So, in a way, it seems to me that narcissistic pd could be thought of as

" sub-criminal psychopathy " (... " psychopathy lite " ?)

From my own personal point of view, my own opinion, if anything on this earth

could be considered Evil or Demonic, it would be psychopathy.

Psychopaths do not have the capacity to experience affective empathy or

compassion for others, they have no conscience or sense of right vs wrong, and

they have no remorse when confronted with the horrific things they do. They

look human but are in essence human predators; like cannibals or vampires. They

view other people merely as potential prey, the way a cat views a mouse: it

provides entertainment as its slowly tortured to death trying to escape, then

its a snack. Disturbingly, according to Dr. Hare, if psychopaths do undergo

psychotherapy (this is from studies of psychopaths in forensic populations:

incarcerated criminals) the therapy not only does NOT cure or heal them, it

instead teaches them how to be better predators.

And, unfortunately, yes: personality disorders are genuine mental illnesses:

Axis II mental disorders according to the DSM-IV. In order for a formal

diagnosis of bpd to be arrived at, the " general criteria " for personality

disorder must be met, in addition to at least 5 out of the 9 *specific* criteria

for bpd.

The general pd criteria are:

" An enduring pattern of psychological experience and behavior that differs

prominently from cultural expectations, as shown in two or more of:

*cognition (i.e. perceiving and interpreting the self, other people or events);

*affect (i.e. the range, intensity, lability, and appropriateness of emotional

response);

*interpersonal functioning / impulse control.

The pattern must appear inflexible and pervasive across a wide range of

situations, and lead to clinically significant distress or impairment in

important areas of functioning.

The pattern must be stable and long-lasting, have started as early as at least

adolescence or early adulthood.

The pattern must not be better accounted for as a manifestation of another

mental disorder, or to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g.

drug or medication) or a general medical condition (e.g. head trauma). "

*****

That's pretty damned serious. What are people even thinking, leaving children

to be raised by someone who is showing the same kinds of disordered thinking &

behaviors as a HEROIN ADDICT, A COKE HEAD, A CHRONIC DRUNK, or a HEAD TRAUMA

PATIENT?!

To me, that's as irresponsible and unconscionable as leaving a child to be

raised by a pedophile/child sexual predator; the child has no chance of avoiding

abuse, neglect and/or trauma in either case.

-Annie

>

> My feeling is nadas are possessed by narcissism...

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Annie...

I'm learning more and more about who and what my mother is through this

group. Not only is the group enlightening, it's informative.

[Guest guest]

Oh wow, I used to think that too!

Funny thing is Nada would always tell me *I* was the one possessed. Even as

young as 3/4 years old I remember her telling me I needed to repent and break

the demonic " stronghold. " I would pray and cry as a little kid, thinking I was

for sure going to hell.

When I was split white, she'd say I did a good job, she couldn't sense the

demons anymore. Then a couple days later I was black again and I must have cast

the demon out wrong so seven more came in.

I had some very horrible nightmares as a little kid.

> So I am NOT the only one who has wondered about possession as it relates to my

nada! The rages make me wonder.

> I posted that question on the WTOChristian group page a few days back and got

the feeling I was the only one who even dared to ask it.

>

> Sandy

>

>

[Guest guest]

It breaks my heart to think of your nada smashing you with a hammer. It's

unthinkable and I'm so glad you somehow survived. Sadly nadas seem to get away

with this more often than not. Although I never had a hammer or broken bones

because of my nada, I don't doubt there's nada's out there as horrific as yours

was.

The nada night rages were true in my childhood also. After us children were in

bed, when it was time for nada to go to bed she would instead thunder up the

stairs screaming and complaining about how rotten we were and sometimes bust

into our rooms, flick on the lights and start going batshit crazy. I had a lot

of anxiety lying in my bed always and PTSD around thumping and loud noises.

>

> I was just remembering how Nada used to threaten that all the time. It still

haunts me. Se thinks that having given birth to me gave her the right to

threaten to kill me. Further, she thought it was a funny joke and would repeat

it all the time. *** shudder***

>

[Guest guest]

Hellfire:

Thanks for reminding me. Nada used to do that to us too, and the worst was the

fear of " what exactly will she do " ? Once, it was trashing my room, emptying

every game, every toy, etc. and threatening me with the worst beating ever if I

didn't get EVERY PIECE to EVERY TOY exactly where it belonged. Spent the whole

day trying to put it back together, under constant fear of her breaking in

again. To this day, I feel bad whenever my kids get a toy with pieces and lose

one, sort of in fear that nada is going to judge me a bad father for not making

sure every toy has every piece. For a while, I didn't want them to get toys

with pieces to avoid those feelings. Still felt bad yesterday when I found out

another toy had a piece missing.

I remember being forced to spend the day in the bathroom once (actually more

than once), including being entitled to dinner, with the condition that I eat it

sitting on the toilet.

Crazy how reading these posts floods back so many bad memories.

> >

> > I was just remembering how Nada used to threaten that all the time. It still

haunts me. Se thinks that having given birth to me gave her the right to

threaten to kill me. Further, she thought it was a funny joke and would repeat

it all the time. *** shudder***

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Similar stuff here too...Nada would throw all of my toys, clothes, whatever she

could find-on my bed so I couldn't sleep until everything was perfectly in

place. This is one of my earliest memories of her bad behavior actually.

> > >

> > > I was just remembering how Nada used to threaten that all the time. It

still haunts me. Se thinks that having given birth to me gave her the right to

threaten to kill me. Further, she thought it was a funny joke and would repeat

it all the time. *** shudder***

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know what you mean. With DD's toys I intentionally separate toy pieces from

the whole to try to overcome the fear of " what will happen if the toy is not

exactly in the shape the manufacturer intended!!!?? " It's pretty crazy and I can

laugh about it when I think consciously, but the memories are very painful. I

really understand.

> > >

> > > I was just remembering how Nada used to threaten that all the time. It

still haunts me. Se thinks that having given birth to me gave her the right to

threaten to kill me. Further, she thought it was a funny joke and would repeat

it all the time. *** shudder***

> > >

> >

>