Re: What Do You Do When You Go NC?

[Guest guest]

Maybe it will help you to read books about overcoming co-dependence, and setting

and maintaining personal boundaries for yourself without guilt? Co-dependency

is when you feel inappropriately responsible for another person's feelings or

well-being. The main problem with co-dependence is that it becomes enabling

behavior: a never-ending dysfunctional dance.

An example is a spouse who is repeatedly battered, repeated leaves, but then

repeatedly returns to the battering spouse because each time, the batterer seems

to be sorry and promises to not do that again, so the cycle repeats:

an explosive, violent rage (and often battery) followed by

apologies/remorse/promises, followed by

a " honeymoon " period, followed by

a buildup of irritation, fault-finding, and tension on the part of the batterer,

followed by

another explosive, violent rage (and often battery.)

You are the only one who can break your cycle of returning for more abuse, of

allowing your nada to be emotionally abusive to you; I hope that reading books

like " Co-dependent No More " or " Boundaries " can help you.

-Annie

>

> Hello Gagne,

>

>

>

> This is what I was upset about yesterday with DH. He is a very good guy,

> thoughtful, considerate etc. but human and no experience with Nada/Fada (his

> parents are both deceased and there was no violence and big trouble in his

> childhood).

>

>

>

> I know he is SO SICK of seeing me hurting...(years) and he now sees FINALLY

> what I see, so his answer is to just LET GO...

>

>

>

> I tell him it is a process, not all or nothing. Mom has been my project for

> most of my life..thank God over the phone mostly, but still.

>

>

>

> He says things to me like this and I feel as you say below, like I once more

> am not supposed to have/feel these feelings! We had a fight due to this

> very issue yesterday, so my FOO still lives on here. He understands but has

> had enough...and was ready to call her and tell her to STAY away for

> good....he has had it.

>

>

>

> I need to see his point also..his life is being hurt also. his best

> intentions are to help stop the pain, but I must feel the pain. He is

> afraid I will keep ruminating the pain..frankly sometimes I do....that is

> why I need places and people like we have here..and other friends who

> understand.

>

>

>

> Thanks so much for sharing...

[Guest guest]

Thanks Annie for all your work and help.

Twyla.

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of anuria67854

Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 03:59 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: What Do You Do When You Go NC?

Maybe it will help you to read books about overcoming co-dependence, and

setting and maintaining personal boundaries for yourself without guilt?

Co-dependency is when you feel inappropriately responsible for another

person's feelings or well-being. The main problem with co-dependence is that

it becomes enabling behavior: a never-ending dysfunctional dance.

An example is a spouse who is repeatedly battered, repeated leaves, but then

repeatedly returns to the battering spouse because each time, the batterer

seems to be sorry and promises to not do that again, so the cycle repeats:

an explosive, violent rage (and often battery) followed by

apologies/remorse/promises, followed by

a " honeymoon " period, followed by

a buildup of irritation, fault-finding, and tension on the part of the

batterer, followed by

another explosive, violent rage (and often battery.)

You are the only one who can break your cycle of returning for more abuse,

of allowing your nada to be emotionally abusive to you; I hope that reading

books like " Co-dependent No More " or " Boundaries " can help you.

-Annie

>

> Hello Gagne,

>

>

>

> This is what I was upset about yesterday with DH. He is a very good guy,

> thoughtful, considerate etc. but human and no experience with Nada/Fada

(his

> parents are both deceased and there was no violence and big trouble in his

> childhood).

>

>

>

> I know he is SO SICK of seeing me hurting...(years) and he now sees

FINALLY

> what I see, so his answer is to just LET GO...

>

>

>

> I tell him it is a process, not all or nothing. Mom has been my project

for

> most of my life..thank God over the phone mostly, but still.

>

>

>

> He says things to me like this and I feel as you say below, like I once

more

> am not supposed to have/feel these feelings! We had a fight due to this

> very issue yesterday, so my FOO still lives on here. He understands but

has

> had enough...and was ready to call her and tell her to STAY away for

> good....he has had it.

>

>

>

> I need to see his point also..his life is being hurt also. his best

> intentions are to help stop the pain, but I must feel the pain. He is

> afraid I will keep ruminating the pain..frankly sometimes I do....that is

> why I need places and people like we have here..and other friends who

> understand.

>

>

>

> Thanks so much for sharing...

[Guest guest]

DH & I went to see Bond " Skyfall " last night.

If any of you have seen it, you learn than Bond is an orphan and his parents

both died when he was young.

" M " tells him that " orphans make the best recruits " ...

This hit home while I was watching the movie...it is true.as even in the

movie, Bond is very fond of M as a mother figure and she of him...( I do not

want to give the story away)

In feeling somewhat an " orphan " ..I can see why I tried so hard all my life

and esp. with Mom..this is natural. Family is important.

But, not all of us can have what we want.and so I need to continue to fill

my loss of FOO by adding appropriate others into my life..and to accept I

did not get the FOO I needed/wanted. I never will have true healthy FOO.

I can only handle this little by little. I do not know how I will feel

tomorrow. I can only do now and sometimes that is too much.

Twyla

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Janice Hall

Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 01:19 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: RE: Re: What Do You Do When You Go NC?

Wow, Twyla...

I could simply sign my name to your post and it could very well be my story.

What I am learning through reading other's posts is a commonality of

behavior/traits of all our Nadas...some being a bit more extreme than

others.

I've spent my entire life thinking there couldn't possibly be anyone in the

world like my Nada and it's scary to learn she's not as unusual as I had

thought.

I've been NC, on and off, for the past thirteen years. It's a hard

position to maintain for a variety of reasons. One being Nada will always

come up with some attention getting scheme to get me out of hiding.

Another being the " abandonment thing " . Whether or not I'm doing the

abandoning or I'm the one being abandoned, the end result feels the same.

Lonely, guilt, etc.

You're right to simply take it one day at a time. I'm guessing that's what

most of us do. My goal is to never have contact with her again, but I'm

certain I will be unable to live up to the personal commitment. So I've

decided that as events present themselves where I'm required to step up and

do what needs to be done, I'll do it. I'll try to maintain some kind of

emotional distance to the situation and when we have whatever resolution we

get, I'll go NC again. This is how I handled Nada's recent stint in jail

for 32 days. While I/we were hopeful that Nada would emerge from this

ordeal as a different person, it didn't take long to see she was the same

old nasty person she's always been. So, back to NC for me.

What's interesting is she knows she blew it.

I have always struggled with the NC thing. After having joined this group

and reading through the different posts, posting my own experiences and

getting the feedback I've received, NC doesn't seem quite as hard to do.

I use to think my Nada was a lost soul. No longer. I now see her as

destructive personality type. Not sure how I feel about calling it a

mental illness, such as bi-polar disorder or schitzophrenia. I'm more

inclined to call it " born bad " , such as Rhoda in " The Bad Seed " . Was Ted

Bundy mentally ill or simply a serial killing psychopath? I have to chew

on this a bit more...

I understand your feeling alienated by your family. I feel the same. I

guess the best place to get the validation we all need is from ourselves.

I'm lucky enough to have a daughter and husband who supports and

understands. That support is invaluable. Sounds like you have a family

that you, too, can count on.

I hope, by sharing my feelings, this somehow helps you work through your

options...

J

[Guest guest]

I've gone nuts with myself over how bad I felt whenever I'd consider going NC,

the alternative being so unpleasant. It give me brain cramps because it seems

so absurd! Yet at some point I need to get out of that cycle or at least take

huge regenerating breaks between iterations.

Once I asked my Nada to respect me and she gave me the silent treatment for six

months! What " deal " could possibly made with a person like that?

It took me another six months to get over her abuse over our last xmass skype

conversation (where I did a bunch of nice things for her) and the even more

abusive letter that followed -- I simply could not even respond to it, it was

just too much.

So, we had no contact until this summer when she asked to coordinate to meet as

she was travelling to visit friends of hers in Europe anyway. My to be high

school graduate son was still studying for his exams the first week of her trip

but showing up for his graduation would have been nice (mind you the last two

time she saw him she found nothing better to do but to emit a screeching scream

of horror at the mere sight of him -- a very normal (even charming and popular

with girls) looking teen, albeit not her image of perfection due to the shoulder

length hair, baskets and t-shirt. (I think she expected him to spend his 16th

summer vacation in a suit and tie).

Also, I was about to be recovered in an Italian hospital for major surgery --

and we hadn't seen each other in two years.

We started driving off to meet her in (expensive) Switzerland (she can't lower

herself to anything less no matter what our expense status may be) when I

stopped my husband saying: " I know what my mother is capable of, let's check

with her hotel before we go any further " . I've been a slow learner but I think

I've finally got it!

Good think I did, there was no reservation for her and they had no clue who she

was. We were spending time and money to drive out there for nothing!

We called her phone numerous times and got no response. We sent e-mail and

still no response, leaving me between worried and having an eery sense of " dejà

vu " .

She was still next door in Switzerland when I was admitted into the hospital for

major surgery. Now I know she doesn't think highly about italian hospitals and

she knows there have been serious budget cuts so she could not have been

thinking it would have been like a risk free leisure cruse!

Still, no sign from her. The thought she might have been crossing her fingers

hoping I'd rot to death alone in an italian hospital did cross my mind. It would

have been nice to have a mom at my side while night nurses bullied their way

into making all of my veins collapse.

It was a long recovery during which we still got no news from her. Once I got

back on my feet (by the way, my surgery was necessary to address stress related

illnesses whose onset began when I was practically living next door to her and

no part of my life was imune to her sabotage) -- hence my " brain cramps " when I

act as if I want more by reconnecting with her -- I decided enough was enough,

and I needed to turn a page here.

So, I did respond to her off the wall xmass letter (which included blaming me

for the Greek economic crisis and the fact it was going to be America's demise

-- since when did I have all of that power!?) and told her about our experience

of her BPD behavior throughout the summer.

I ended my letter with a list of BPD therapists close to her home saying that

" ideally I won't have to talk with you again until you go for at least 52

therapy sessions -- that's six months if you go twice a week " .

I didn't really count on that happening but at least the boundary was set and

the ball was in her camp.

Three months later I get a thick letter in the mail. I let it lay around for a

couple of weeks because I just didn't feel ready to deal with her right there

and then.

I started to write an e-mail saying that I didn't not intend to open it until

she went through with the therapy sessions but the message came back

undeliverable and the skype numbers were all disconnected. I have since

cancelled them from my contact list as well.

I eventually picked it up and started to open it sort of mechanically, already

thinking about the next diatribe...and then I did something I've never done

before! Stopped myself. The glued edge of the envelope is cracked by no more

than 5th of an inch.

I decided I wasn't going to open a letter which was guaranteed to be filled with

ehr venom.

Moreover, I've decided that...when the time comes (and I clean up my office) I

will frame it in a read frame; write on the glass in red glass paint " My Toxic

Mother's Abuse Stops Here! "

and that I will hang it at the center of a wall with all of my diplomas and

certificates (that spit in the face of her chronic defamation criticisms) hung

around it.

I have no intention of ever opening it and it doesn't matter that she doesn't

know I haven't opened it and may be thinking she had the last word -- she did,

she had the LAST word!

It's my trophy!

I've just decided that:

If the letter says she's disowning me and giving everything to my " can't do

anything wrong siblings " ;

I already knew that.

My kids may read it one day when I'm gone and they'll have a first hand idea of

what she was really like.

If it says something nice;

taking 50 years to say it was simply too late, and I'll never know.

It's not hung there yet, but every time I am tempted to break my NC I think of

that image of the red frame with her unopened toxic letter in it, amid my

achievement trophies, and the desire to reconnect to my NADA passes instantly.

She's still on my mind:

- Seeing my brother's facial expressions in my son's face brought tears to me

the other night being that I haven't seen him for over a decade (and it had been

a decade sine I had - - seen him before that) because she's estranged me from

the entire family);

- and all of the gingles about " thanks giving " and " Xmass family time " do bring

up sad feelings and wishes things were different

but they no longer bring up the illusion that contact would fix any of that.

That's what NC is like for me.

C.

>

> Many times throughout the day for the last NC month, I ask myself this.

> " What can I live with? "

>

>

>

> As this NC is still new to me, I waver up and down but this time NEVER too

> far from .. " I can live with the way this is for now " . meaning NC..with no

> defined stop date.

>

>

>

> Anger flares up, rejection, memories flood of verbal and physical abuse and

> abandonment so many times, and of course resentment that I have tried so

> hard to be good to mom, for not. This past year I showered her with new

> wardrobes, shoes, boots, massages, jewelry, a trip to Cuba...blue roses for

> mom's day.daily calls after eye surgery as she was so frightened....this

> help for her is not new.

>

>

>

> Presently, I go day to day. It is all I can do and I cannot afford more

> energy drain for this. I take breaks and put this away for periods as I have

> to survive the other parts of my life. I have a family and DH..and they are

> so tired of all this drama coming into the home and from me trying to fight

> it or get mom to see what she has done.

>

>

>

> Forget it..she is not going to change. I have to... but it is not instant.

> The hurt digs.

>

>

>

> My story is so long and some has been previously posted so I do not know how

> much to repeat.

>

>

>

> Then my thoughts get all fuzzy and I have to slooooow down and AGAIN

> re-think WHY I went NC. It is funny the reasons get lost as I am pulled

> psychologically back into FOG.I keep looking for morsels of rationality of

> WHY I should return to Mom. (Dad was way worse and he is long dead).

>

>

>

> The last stint with my mother was about 6 weeks back. As my older sibs do

> not talk to me or my FAM here 800 miles from them and have never taken an

> interest..I only have mother, so at times when the right trigger comes round

> again on the turn style, I am off into feeling I have no FOO if I let mom

> go. Plus she is elderly.

>

>

>

> I feel at these times like I was hatched or spawned. A bleak nothingness to

> reflect on my beginnings. Sure I was birthed and bottle-fed and clothed.but

> punished severely for little things, mostly not being obedient to the letter

> and not being perfect in what they expected. The 2nd youngest sib beat the

> hell out of me..and he was beat from father very badly. I moved away form

> that city 33 yrs. ago to get away from all them. Yet I just came more clear

> on WHO mom was last year and even still gave her another chance after she

> cursed me for being named in her brother's Will where she was named for tiny

> portion with no executive powers. It was always like this with both mom and

> father...no support, lots of denial, demands, abuse, expectations and hidden

> family secrets. We as kids were not allowed to join extended family....so

> we were cloistered and raised in seclusion with strict religious background

> and FEAR.

>

>

>

> After the Will allocation last year things got worse than ever...the 2 sibs

> who NEVER were much a part of my life and NEVER took part in with my kids..

> (they have no kids of their own) wanted money from me. Same with mom. I

> was gifted, not them. They EXPECTED me to share with them equally even

> after we have no relationship and they have been NC to me for years due to

> earlier FOO abuse and abandonment,

>

>

>

> So, 6 weeks back I asked mom who is living alone and aging to ask my older

> sib if he would co-partner in helping mom in her decline. She was very

> happy as she knows we have not spoken for years..she said she would speak

> with him soon and that she was going to make everything good (she told so

> many lies and character assignations about me to them...not that it matter

> as they love to hear it to further their hatred to me)

>

>

>

> I gave mom one last chance last year this time to STOP her mean behavior and

> hang-ups on the home with me, calling me names, refusing to listen to any

> truth about what was happening (this has happened so many times before) I

> had, had it last year. I had heart pain so bad I was under Dr. Care. She

> did not careless and like usual only talked of her age and health state and

> what I was doing to HER.

>

>

>

> What do I do to her?....I call her on her lies, ask why she prefers to take

> exotic trips and has not seen my kids here since year 2000, why she tells me

> I was the cause of her affair, why whenever I try to heal my past by asking

> questions she says these things they did to us NEVER occurred. She says she

> does not know where I get this form and she could never have done all the

> abuse.

>

>

>

> So to get back to the phone call 6 weeks back..apparently she went off to

> ask sib abut care arrangements between us.

>

>

>

> When I called her the next week.she told me sib said he " would think about

> it " . I was very upset. Like who says things like they " will think about "

> helping their mother and getting support from their sister unless they hold

> such resentment. She said do not worry I will be seeing him next

> week...etc...I will talk further. I said, " you know when you pass they will

> NOT give me any info on you.they will punish me by keeping me out of all

> that happens with you and I want to be included. I want to help you because

> I know they will only do the minimum. " She denied this could ever happen.

>

>

>

> The following week I talked with her......mom is very jealous of any talk of

> my kids (who are very close to me and my talk of wanting grandkids.)

> Anything to do with my FAM here she is snide. Hardly ever talk to her

> grandkids...she says I trained them wrong and they should call her.not HER

> calling them.

>

>

>

> So further into the conversation I asked again if she had spoken to sib.she

> went nuts...telling me I always start problems..and why do I get HER

> involved?(Remember she previously agreed?)

>

>

>

> WFT? This was for her benefit.

>

>

>

> I got angry she was once more raising her voice and putting me down (again)

> for something I did that was good, then she switches to " there you go,

> always yelling at me, I will not take being yelled at.. " ..I asked again,

> what happened with sib.. " .you said you were going to speak with him this

> Thursday " ...she then flatly denied all, saying she never said she would be

> talking to him and that this conversation I had with her never took place!

> Then I WAS yelling at her.in-between she hangs up on me.then leaves the

> phone off the hook for a while until I can get through...

>

>

>

> So I call again..and typical I am told I am a trouble maker, I am so

> selfish, the WORST daughter, and I always upset her and the other sibs do

> not (they barely deal with her and one is an alcoholic that takes and

> freeloads off her and is violent so she caters to him always) so she lies

> and has lied over and over. Then she blurts out " I try not to hurt you and

> that is just me always trying not to hurt you, you brother said NO, he would

> not help you! " ..I asked her why she lied, she would not listen told me again

> she will not put up with me yelling...then hang up.

>

>

>

> I phoned back one more time to tell her One more time if she did this

> hang-up shit again I was gone....she hung up.

>

>

>

> This is just part of the crazy making I have lived with.

>

>

>

> I think I am part crazy for trying so hard.

>

>

>

> This women is mad at me because she asked her son to cooperate with me to

> help HER but he said no and she did not want to admit or tell me so for

> weeks she ran me round in circles with padding then blamed ME for starting

> issues after SHE agreed to initiate originally...then hangs up because I am

> yelling at her. In fact at some point I was trying to get her to stop

> shrieking at me at the top of her lungs...she swears at me whenever she

> wants..but if I try any of that she adds it to the " bad girl " list.

>

>

>

> So mother can have the lame sibs to take care of her. If she dies and I am

> not contacted I have to accept all this. They will udoubtedly try to get

> her to change her Will if she has not already for their favor.

>

>

>

> I am the one who mothered mom since I was in grade school..I have been

> coaching her all my life trying to help her through her abusive marriage and

> her abusive son but when it comes down to me trying to get rational behavior

> from her when I calling her on lies or why she planned to go on a bus trip

> instead of attending DH mother's funeral, or denying my kids and us to visit

> her at her place on her birthday a few years back because she said it would

> be too hard for her..yet my alcoholic gal pal met on internet from Norway is

> coming to stay with mom and him at Christmas and mom will dote. We here are

> NEVER invited.

>

>

>

> Mom only has 2 grandkids and does very little for them ever. She tells me

> " I was there for them when they were born.. " That is true..a long time

> ago..my kids are 26 & 23.

>

>

>

> Sorry for all this long read...maybe some of you can relate.

>

>

>

> I have had it with her....Mother or not.....this is crap. At 86 she has

> more energy than I. she does NOT have dementia...I have seen this pattern

> for years. She will not take responsibility for her actions or

> behavior...and blames the one, me, who has been the kindest to her.

>

>

>

> She believed because she is MOTHER she has rights to abuse....I told her I

> AM DUAGHTER and I have rights to refuse you and your ways.

>

>

>

> She has not called me for this entire time except for her 9pm 2-rings in I

> set up for a safety-call for her.....this is the longest I have NC and she

> is 86 and she is still pulling this b.s. .

>

>

>

> I has a mother in name..I have brothers who are lame and usless..my father

> was mean and violent. When I get down I cannot not imagine living without a

> FOO...BUT I HAVE TO SIT and rationalize WHY. The immediate thoughts of loss

> are devastating.

>

>

>

> Thanks for reading..

>

>

>

> Twyla

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Janice Hall

> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 07:25 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Subject: RE: Re: What Do You Do?

>

>

>

>

>

> Feeling rejected is a painful place to be...

>

> I have been seeking approval from Nada's sisters my whole life. I spent

> much of my younger years with her sisters, who were in some way like

> sisters to me as we were all so close in age.

>

> After knowing what they know...after seeing what they have seen...after

> looking the other way while Nada inflicted her rage and abuse on both my

> brother and me, who are they to judge?

> And yet, I look to them for approval. Approval that will never come. I

> support Nada, financially,

> but it's not good enough. I have had no contact with Nada since moving to

> the west coast, for obvious reasons. And I am judged harshly for that.

>

> At what point do you stop looking for the approval/acceptance that will

> never come?

> At what point do you establish boundaries that allow you to live life in as

> much peace as possible? There has to come a point when the approval of

> others no longer matters....so long as you are living in a state of

> self-approval.

>

> With the latest drama of my Nada, my shrink asked me... " What can you live

> with? "

>

> That's the question you ask yourself, and remain resolute in the answer.

>

>

[Guest guest]

The thing that helped me was realizing that my child hod was not

normala my nadas actions were not normal and people could see it.

That, coupled with the fact that I couldn't handle the abuse any

more, lead me to nc. Good luck as you make this decision. It

will be hard for a few months, but it's the best thing I ever

did.

Steph