Nada Manipulating Emotions--All Important Theme!!

[Guest guest]

Dear WTO,

I had a major lightbulb moment this morning that I want to share. This might

get a little long so please bear with me--I know it will be useful to me, and

hopefully it will ring true with some of you as well. What prompted it was me

taking a glimpse at the subject line of one of my nada's emails. I do this from

time to time before I delete them. My email account does NOT have an

auto-delete option, only an auto-junk mail. So whenever I see a notification

that my junk mail has messages, it always could be nada. Almost always I delete

without looking. But sometimes I have an instinct that there's a lesson to be

learned.

I don't remember if I posted about this or not, but recently I had a relative

who was very ill. I ignored the desperate nada messages trying to manipulate it

as a way to force me into contact with her. (Nada was not the one ill!!) I did

though send flowers to the hospital to the beloved relative. Well, a few weeks

later, I see that nada has sent a subject headline with another elderly

relative's name--this one, nada knows, is the one to whom I am closest. Or at

least was during childhood. Nada thinks that with threats of another relative

dying, she can force me into reading her message and maybe contacting her--or if

not contacting her, she can at least get a response of some kind (such as

flowers in the hospital last time).

I realized then that manipulating my emotions is nada's primary m/o, and that it

is the method she has used to torture me emotionally, my entire life. I can't

believe that so many years in, there are still new things to learn about her

cruel behaviors. The thing is, my nada could perceive correctly EVERY emotion I

ever felt. She may have psychotic breaks when it comes to other facts--but what

emotions *I was feeling, that she had down cold. And, not once. I know this

may sound crazy. But not ONCE. Ever. Did she let such an emotion pass by.

She used every one--most appallingly, my affection for others--to further one of

her theme goals.

For those of you newbies, I would highly encourage you to find your nada's

'theme goals'. I believe that every borderline has them. It centers around the

things most important to your nada (/fada). And nadas will use their KO to try

and get projected with these themes, usually in opposite directions, sometimes

in opposite directions at once. My nada was obsessed with being attractive to

the opposite sex, being socially 'popular' and also the queen of her own family

social scene, she was also a child molester and sexually annorexic though I

won't go into that too much as it's ugly and triggering, and she also was

plagued with the idea that she was 'ridiculous', a court jester not to be taken

seriously. Being black sheep, I was the constant dumping ground for her terrors

so it was her lifelong theme to try and cast me as disgustingly ugly, esp. to

the opposite sex, desperate for popularity or attention, an 'outcast' from my

family, and also a ridiculous person who could never succeed and should be

simply dismissed. Oh I also forgot 'mean and hateful'--nada was a cruel evil

witch and so she tried to force me into being mean and viscious. (A phrase used

often). Now, keep in mind, that nadas are not linear thinkers, and they think

in extremes, so if I was ever split good, she would also try to project onto me

these things, in OPPOSITE. Sometimes both at once. Also, in front of people

she wanted to prove herself to, she would sometimes try to 'compliment' me in

these areas, to try and deny what she was doing in private or convince herself

that she was 'good' in front of others. So it could be really confusing unless

you really understand bpd m/o.

But today's insight is about the emotions. What I never understood until today,

is that my nada used my emotions to try and harm me in all of these ways. It

was insisidious. So despicable. As a young child or infant--if I was hungry or

needed something from her, she cast it into one of those themes. (Shemeful,

ridiculous, mean and hateful). When I expressed affection to my father, even as

young as age THREE--it was shameful, dirty and sexual. When I expressed

affection for my school friends, or hurt at something they had done, she cast it

as me being 'deperate' and unpopular, or ugly. When I started having

boyfriends--man, that was the worst. She had a field day with those emotions.

These are just examples. She used every emotion. EVERY one. Never was I free

to just feel. Every emotion I felt, even when I tried to hide them, was

hijacked for nada for her evil purposes: to harm me, out of her compulsion, so

SHE wouldn't have to feel it. I wonder at times if my nada also had elements of

psychopathy. She enjoyed harming me. It gave her satisfaction (though of

course she denied that as if the world would end.)

Of all the harm my nada did, this constant manipulation and exploitation of

sincere and innocent emotion I find to be the most despicable. It really is the

main reason I am not willing to be in contact with her now. I know that no

'medium chill' technique will work with her. No matter what I say, or do, she

will pick up on SOME emotion--and try to 'cast' it among her themes. And to

this day, being her biological child, I have not yet found a way to resist that

result. Just LOOKING at that email has caused me to lose a 24 hour work span

just after the holiday, to have not one but two trauma nightmares last

night...And to post this crazy-long diatribe, for which I am most grateful if

anyone read the whole thing

--Charlie

[Guest guest]

Very articulate...

Well said...

[Guest guest]

Interesting. I just don't see the different between bpd and aspd. I think

you're spot on.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Janice Hall janicehalldesigns@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> Very articulate...

>

> Well said...

>

>

[Guest guest]

(((((Charlie)))))

Its uncanny how similar your descriptions are RE the toxic relationship dynamic

you have with your nada, to the toxic relationship dynamic I had with my nada.

Yes, it did seem that my nada had sub-text to the abuse she inflicted; I think

my nada's core theme was revenge.

I tend to agree, I think there is an element of real cruelty or sadistic

pleasure in inflicting pain on one's own child, by using the child's emotions

manipulatively against them. I agree that such casual, relentless cruelty is

very much along the lines of psychopathy.

The kind of staggeringly incomprehensible and relentless psychological torture

that you have described coming from a parent will do major psychological damage

to a kid. Children have no way of comprehending that what's done to them by

their own parent is wrong, insane, and unconscionable, unless the child receives

outside validation from another adult authority figure. A child will simply

accept parental abuse as " normal " and as deserved, most of the time,

particularly if they are told repeatedly that " Yes, you deserve this. "

(REading that your nada made you even as a very small child feel ashamed/dirty

for expressing normal, innocent, daughterly affection for your father, breaks my

heart. That truly shines a huge arc-light on the nature and depth of your

nada's mental illness, her cognitive distortion, and her own sick inner

thoughts. )

Like you, as an adult it got to a point for me that contact with my nada made me

ill. Your reaction was torturous nightmares, I got physically ill. That was

one of the major factors in my decision to go total No Contact, after

experiencing Meniere's Disease-like episodes twice, both times after reluctantly

speaking with my nada.

I know its just a fantasy, but I wish that there was some system in place

providing parental overview or supervision, or a board of appeals specifically

for children. Or lawyers for children, civil rights, human rights for children.

We should not have been subjected to chronic, ongoing psychological torture by

our own mentally ill mothers. No child should. If an adult had been basically

imprisoned and subjected to psychological torture and even physical assault and

battery as I was/we were (including sexual abuse) there would be no question

about bringing charges and having a public trial for the perpetrator. No such

avenue for seeking justice is available to children; children are still

considered chattel of their parents with no adult-level human rights or legal

rights of their own to bring suit, seek a " divorce " and be awarded financial

support to pay for alternative (rational, sane, empathetic, relatively mentally

healthy) care-giver arrangements.

The fact that we are still alive, and neither of us is in a rubber room

somewhere drooling on a straight-jacket, is a tribute to the basic human will to

survive, our own innate resilience and inner strength of character.

We are stronger than we think.

-Annie

>

> Dear WTO,

>

> I had a major lightbulb moment this morning that I want to share. This might

get a little long so please bear with me--I know it will be useful to me, and

hopefully it will ring true with some of you as well. What prompted it was me

taking a glimpse at the subject line of one of my nada's emails. I do this from

time to time before I delete them. My email account does NOT have an

auto-delete option, only an auto-junk mail. So whenever I see a notification

that my junk mail has messages, it always could be nada. Almost always I delete

without looking. But sometimes I have an instinct that there's a lesson to be

learned....

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much Annie (& others for the thumbs up). Annie, it's amazing that

my experience resonates with you because your experience was so actively

violent, at times, whereas mine was not (not after I was of speaking age,

anyways). It really validates me to comprehend that I have had a similar

reaction to physical raging. Speaking of rage, I was finally able to access

some of mine today. It used to be that I was either petulant or numb to my

nada's abuse. Today I was finally able to feel anger at the idea of her

manipulating the tender heart of twelve year old and 8 year old me.

I just find it so despicable that she used my emotions this way AGAIN and again.

I am trying to think of a specific example from childhood, which is difficult

because so much of my childhood is buried trauma-memory (again, even though not

violently physical! it was still traumatic enough to trigger my

trauma-response). I can only think of specific examples from older ages. Once

when I was about 18, I was gushing about a young man with whom I was pleasantly

infatuated, and she looked at me with her psychopath glint and said, sternly and

shamingly, 'Charlie. He is not DATING you.' This only makes sense understood

against a lifetime of her themes--otherwise an observer, hearing the

conversation, could claim she was trying to protect me from getting hurt. No

doubt nada would also use that defense if challenged. Her abuse was almost

always 'masked' this way, so that an outsider, and nada herself could be

convinced of an alternate 'interpretation'.

But that's not the best example at all. It was so much more severe than that.

When I started developing as a young pre-teen, I felt extreme humiliation about

it (no doubt because she cast me as 'dirty' for it), and she told relatives and

even strangers things that I BEGGED her not to tell them. She, rubbed it IN,

using my discomfort to help her feel that *I was the 'disgusting' one, not her.

As a child, I fully accepted her implication that my body and my development was

completely disgusting.

Once as a young adult I remember telling her I felt 'depressed'. 'Yes we KNOW

you are depressed, Charlie', she said, smirking, with a MOCKING tone, a derisive

and shaming tone, indicating at once that I was a ridiculous court jester not to

be taken seriously, 'desperate' just for attention and approval but deserving

only to be mocked and ignored--in other words, the way SHE deserves to be

treated when she tries to get attention with three year old emotional outbursts.

If I think of any more really good ones I'll post them. Thanks again for the

input!

> >

> > Dear WTO,

> >

> > I had a major lightbulb moment this morning that I want to share. This

might get a little long so please bear with me--I know it will be useful to me,

and hopefully it will ring true with some of you as well. What prompted it was

me taking a glimpse at the subject line of one of my nada's emails. I do this

from time to time before I delete them. My email account does NOT have an

auto-delete option, only an auto-junk mail. So whenever I see a notification

that my junk mail has messages, it always could be nada. Almost always I delete

without looking. But sometimes I have an instinct that there's a lesson to be

learned....

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Charlie ,

I read the whole thing and hear you loud and clear! You were able to articulate

the most psychologically damaging part of a nada's Witch phase. While my

physical wounds have , for the most part, healed it is the emotional damage and

the utter distruction of my self -esteem that are so hard to over come even

after decades of NC and therapy. Looking back, I sometimes wonder what the child

I was could have become if she had been loved and encouraged. Don't get me

wrong, I like who I am and I am very proud of my work in the fields of education

and social justice. Yet, as a child, I believed I had no talents. My plays were

put on by small local groups but all I recalled was the pain of nada never

coming to see one. She skipped my awards ceremony and while other students were

cheered, I walked across the stage and received my academic accolades to stony

dead silence. The list of emotional abandonments goes! These events illustrate

the fact that I did have talent but could not recognize it in myself. All I

could hear were nada's insults. The trouble of getting nada out of my life was

nothing as compared to getting that woman out of my head!

Beth

Nada Manipulating Emotions--All Important Theme!!

Dear WTO,

I had a major lightbulb moment this morning that I want to share. This might

get a little long so please bear with me--I know it will be useful to me, and

hopefully it will ring true with some of you as well. What prompted it was me

taking a glimpse at the subject line of one of my nada's emails. I do this from

time to time before I delete them. My email account does NOT have an auto-delete

option, only an auto-junk mail. So whenever I see a notification that my junk

mail has messages, it always could be nada. Almost always I delete without

looking. But sometimes I have an instinct that there's a lesson to be learned.

I don't remember if I posted about this or not, but recently I had a relative

who was very ill. I ignored the desperate nada messages trying to manipulate it

as a way to force me into contact with her. (Nada was not the one ill!!) I did

though send flowers to the hospital to the beloved relative. Well, a few weeks

later, I see that nada has sent a subject headline with another elderly

relative's name--this one, nada knows, is the one to whom I am closest. Or at

least was during childhood. Nada thinks that with threats of another relative

dying, she can force me into reading her message and maybe contacting her--or if

not contacting her, she can at least get a response of some kind (such as

flowers in the hospital last time).

I realized then that manipulating my emotions is nada's primary m/o, and that

it is the method she has used to torture me emotionally, my entire life. I can't

believe that so many years in, there are still new things to learn about her

cruel behaviors. The thing is, my nada could perceive correctly EVERY emotion I

ever felt. She may have psychotic breaks when it comes to other facts--but what

emotions *I was feeling, that she had down cold. And, not once. I know this may

sound crazy. But not ONCE. Ever. Did she let such an emotion pass by. She used

every one--most appallingly, my affection for others--to further one of her

theme goals.

For those of you newbies, I would highly encourage you to find your nada's

'theme goals'. I believe that every borderline has them. It centers around the

things most important to your nada (/fada). And nadas will use their KO to try

and get projected with these themes, usually in opposite directions, sometimes

in opposite directions at once. My nada was obsessed with being attractive to

the opposite sex, being socially 'popular' and also the queen of her own family

social scene, she was also a child molester and sexually annorexic though I

won't go into that too much as it's ugly and triggering, and she also was

plagued with the idea that she was 'ridiculous', a court jester not to be taken

seriously. Being black sheep, I was the constant dumping ground for her terrors

so it was her lifelong theme to try and cast me as disgustingly ugly, esp. to

the opposite sex, desperate for popularity or attention, an 'outcast' from my

family, and also a ridiculous person who could never succeed and should be

simply dismissed. Oh I also forgot 'mean and hateful'--nada was a cruel evil

witch and so she tried to force me into being mean and viscious. (A phrase used

often). Now, keep in mind, that nadas are not linear thinkers, and they think in

extremes, so if I was ever split good, she would also try to project onto me

these things, in OPPOSITE. Sometimes both at once. Also, in front of people she

wanted to prove herself to, she would sometimes try to 'compliment' me in these

areas, to try and deny what she was doing in private or convince herself that

she was 'good' in front of others. So it could be really confusing unless you

really understand bpd m/o.

But today's insight is about the emotions. What I never understood until

today, is that my nada used my emotions to try and harm me in all of these ways.

It was insisidious. So despicable. As a young child or infant--if I was hungry

or needed something from her, she cast it into one of those themes. (Shemeful,

ridiculous, mean and hateful). When I expressed affection to my father, even as

young as age THREE--it was shameful, dirty and sexual. When I expressed

affection for my school friends, or hurt at something they had done, she cast it

as me being 'deperate' and unpopular, or ugly. When I started having

boyfriends--man, that was the worst. She had a field day with those emotions.

These are just examples. She used every emotion. EVERY one. Never was I free

to just feel. Every emotion I felt, even when I tried to hide them, was hijacked

for nada for her evil purposes: to harm me, out of her compulsion, so SHE

wouldn't have to feel it. I wonder at times if my nada also had elements of

psychopathy. She enjoyed harming me. It gave her satisfaction (though of course

she denied that as if the world would end.)

Of all the harm my nada did, this constant manipulation and exploitation of

sincere and innocent emotion I find to be the most despicable. It really is the

main reason I am not willing to be in contact with her now. I know that no

'medium chill' technique will work with her. No matter what I say, or do, she

will pick up on SOME emotion--and try to 'cast' it among her themes. And to this

day, being her biological child, I have not yet found a way to resist that

result. Just LOOKING at that email has caused me to lose a 24 hour work span

just after the holiday, to have not one but two trauma nightmares last

night...And to post this crazy-long diatribe, for which I am most grateful if

anyone read the whole thing

--Charlie

[Guest guest]

Being the newest member of the group, I'd like to chime in on all of these

posts...

Our stories are all so incredibly similar. I just can't quite grasp this.

I couldn't have ever imagined anyone having lived with what I have lived

with.

Nada began calling me a slut and a c--nt when I was somewhere around 14.

She'd wait for me to come home from being out with friends and throw me up

against the wall shrieking these names at me. Finally, when I was 18, I

was met at the front door by her holding a knife in her hand while telling

me I needed to get the f--k out of her house or she would kill me. That

really should have been the last time she ever saw me, but you all

understand why I continued to try to find some way to have a normal, loving

relationship with this monster. If it hadn't been for my grandparents and

nada's siblings, I'm not sure what would have happened to me. Thank God

they were normal....which is why it stings so much that I was eventually

rejected by them. My husband thinks they distanced themselves from me due

to the fact being close to me kept them close to her. And nobody wanted

nada in their lives. Or me, for that matter. But they accept my brother

with open arms. Maybe if he were female it would be different. Maybe

that's it.

Another incredible point is the fact I have a brain tumor. Not malignant

but a life or death problem none the less. I was diagnosed when I was 25.

I have had two unsuccessful surgeries. When I was 32 I was told it was

hopeless as I watched my then two year old crawling around the kitchen

floor under my feet. I have been on experimental drugs and any other kind

of treatment that comes up for the past twenty years. I was never expected

to live this long. I refused to let this thing take my life as I had a

daughter who needed me and I had a job to do in being the kind of mother to

her that I wish I had. That said, I'm doing fine. I have gone on to

achieve success in business and did things in my life I might not have

otherwise accomplished...ran the Big Sur Marathon, became a competitive

tennis player, learned to snow ski (together with my daughter) and have

been around to watch my gorgeous daughter grow into an incredible woman.

Has nada ever asked how I'm doing? Does she care? Uh, no. You see, this

doesn't impact her at all. That is, unless, I drop dead and there is

nobody to pay her rent and her bills. Only then, will she give what I have

lived with all these years a second thought.

So in spite of the hurt, pain and damage nada has caused, I guess I won.

It's still a battle with her and the baggage I drag along is a real pain

in the ass, but to have overcome the challenges I have faced, to have

survived having been raised and terrorized by a monster...

to ever give in and allow her to ruin my life would have made all the work

I've done a waste of time. I will never, ever let this monster win. There

was a time she had such an incredible hold over me and we had a sick

co-dependent relationship. No more. And I feel more empowered than ever

before having joined this group and reading all of your stories and

challenges with your own situations. I'm getting stronger just by knowing

there are others out there experiencing and working through the same thing

I live with.

The only real peace I will ever know is when she's gone. When that day

comes, the tears I will shed will not be for her death but for the mother I

never had.

[Guest guest]

Well said !! Congratulations on your triumph (in more ways then one).

>

> Being the newest member of the group, I'd like to chime in on all of these

> posts...

>

> Our stories are all so incredibly similar. I just can't quite grasp this.

> I couldn't have ever imagined anyone having lived with what I have lived

> with.

>

> Nada began calling me a slut and a c--nt when I was somewhere around 14.

> She'd wait for me to come home from being out with friends and throw me up

> against the wall shrieking these names at me. Finally, when I was 18, I

> was met at the front door by her holding a knife in her hand while telling

> me I needed to get the f--k out of her house or she would kill me. That

> really should have been the last time she ever saw me, but you all

> understand why I continued to try to find some way to have a normal, loving

> relationship with this monster. If it hadn't been for my grandparents and

> nada's siblings, I'm not sure what would have happened to me. Thank God

> they were normal....which is why it stings so much that I was eventually

> rejected by them. My husband thinks they distanced themselves from me due

> to the fact being close to me kept them close to her. And nobody wanted

> nada in their lives. Or me, for that matter. But they accept my brother

> with open arms. Maybe if he were female it would be different. Maybe

> that's it.

>

> Another incredible point is the fact I have a brain tumor. Not malignant

> but a life or death problem none the less. I was diagnosed when I was 25.

> I have had two unsuccessful surgeries. When I was 32 I was told it was

> hopeless as I watched my then two year old crawling around the kitchen

> floor under my feet. I have been on experimental drugs and any other kind

> of treatment that comes up for the past twenty years. I was never expected

> to live this long. I refused to let this thing take my life as I had a

> daughter who needed me and I had a job to do in being the kind of mother to

> her that I wish I had. That said, I'm doing fine. I have gone on to

> achieve success in business and did things in my life I might not have

> otherwise accomplished...ran the Big Sur Marathon, became a competitive

> tennis player, learned to snow ski (together with my daughter) and have

> been around to watch my gorgeous daughter grow into an incredible woman.

>

> Has nada ever asked how I'm doing? Does she care? Uh, no. You see, this

> doesn't impact her at all. That is, unless, I drop dead and there is

> nobody to pay her rent and her bills. Only then, will she give what I have

> lived with all these years a second thought.

>

> So in spite of the hurt, pain and damage nada has caused, I guess I won.

> It's still a battle with her and the baggage I drag along is a real pain

> in the ass, but to have overcome the challenges I have faced, to have

> survived having been raised and terrorized by a monster...

> to ever give in and allow her to ruin my life would have made all the work

> I've done a waste of time. I will never, ever let this monster win. There

> was a time she had such an incredible hold over me and we had a sick

> co-dependent relationship. No more. And I feel more empowered than ever

> before having joined this group and reading all of your stories and

> challenges with your own situations. I'm getting stronger just by knowing

> there are others out there experiencing and working through the same thing

> I live with.

>

> The only real peace I will ever know is when she's gone. When that day

> comes, the tears I will shed will not be for her death but for the mother I

> never had.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

From what I've read, the main difference between those with bpd and those with

narcissistic pd or antisocial pd, is that the person with bpd runs " hot " with

volatile, wildly fluctuating emotions, whereas the npd person and the aspd

person tend to run " cold " . Their " affect " or emotional temperature is more

controlled.

So if a person with bpd is triggered into feeling rage at you, she will tend to

unleash the rage immediately, " in the heat of the moment. " Whereas if someone

with narcissistic pd or antisocial pd feels enraged with you, she will be able

to sit back, think about it in a cool and calm manner, and bide her time until

the right moment presents itself for her to " get you back " in a satisfyingly

appropriate way. For npds and aspds, revenge is a dish best served cold. So to

speak.

-Annie

>

> Interesting. I just don't see the different between bpd and aspd. I think

> you're spot on.

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds familiar...

[Guest guest]

Antisocials have a lack of empathy. So not really controlled emotions. More a

lack of emotions. Narcissists are simply just worried about themselves. Both did

not have their egos nurtured enough to be emotionally present for anyone but

themselves. Personally I have encountered two antisocial folks and they do

things that " typical humans " are simply incapable of fathoming.