Question

[Guest guest]

I'd rather not get this. But it would be nice to post the URL so that folks who want this may subscribe and get them daily.

in SeattleDS 1/5/01Dr Welker

----- Original Message -----

From: Debbie Nuckolls

Would you all be interested in me posting a daily motivation I get every morning, It has to do with staying focused and positive, etc.. I don't want to over step my new boundaries, so feel free to let me know, ~Debs

Debbie NuckollsTo Each Day, A new beginning.....)Visit us at: www.glorykidd.comDebbie@...

[Guest guest]

Not a problem I withdrew the offer as a courtesy to another member and there is no URL as they come from a business friend of mine from another state and are just to encourage to face self and goals and usually not weight related. It was just something kind I was offering. I didn't mean to cause trouble. Deb.

Re: Question

I'd rather not get this. But it would be nice to post the URL so that folks who want this may subscribe and get them daily.

in SeattleDS 1/5/01Dr Welker

----- Original Message -----

From: Debbie Nuckolls

Would you all be interested in me posting a daily motivation I get every morning, It has to do with staying focused and positive, etc.. I don't want to over step my new boundaries, so feel free to let me know, ~Debs

Debbie NuckollsTo Each Day, A new beginning.....)Visit us at: www.glorykidd.comDebbie@...

[Guest guest]

Deb, No trouble. You might just include one each time you post.

I'm just overwhelmed by the near 400 posts daily that reach my computer. Some are professional lists that I need to read.. but I've eliminated all the fun daily lists due to the sheer volume.. and recall others mentioning their concerns at the list volume in the past.

I interpret your offer as kindness. Please don't misunderstand my desire to not have these sent to the whole 1000+ membership daily.

in SeattleDS 1/5/01Dr Welker

Re: Question

I'd rather not get this. But it would be nice to post the URL so that folks who want this may subscribe and get them daily.

in SeattleDS 1/5/01Dr Welker

----- Original Message -----

From: Debbie Nuckolls

Would you all be interested in me posting a daily motivation I get every morning, It has to do with staying focused and positive, etc.. I don't want to over step my new boundaries, so feel free to let me know, ~Debs

Debbie NuckollsTo Each Day, A new beginning.....)Visit us at: www.glorykidd.comDebbie@...

[Guest guest]

Thanks ~ Hugs, Deb.

Re: Question

I'd rather not get this. But it would be nice to post the URL so that folks who want this may subscribe and get them daily.

in SeattleDS 1/5/01Dr Welker

----- Original Message -----

From: Debbie Nuckolls

Would you all be interested in me posting a daily motivation I get every morning, It has to do with staying focused and positive, etc.. I don't want to over step my new boundaries, so feel free to let me know, ~Debs

Debbie NuckollsTo Each Day, A new beginning.....)Visit us at: www.glorykidd.comDebbie@...

[Guest guest]

Dennis:

I think it would be wise to have something that would let the doctor

or other's know what is wrong with you. I always make sure that Fred

has in his wallet a note telling what he has, along with a list of

his dr's number's and what meds his on. You never know when it would

be needed and it's always better to be safe then sorry.

Take Care

Vera

[Guest guest]

Dorothy

Homeopathic remedies, not homemade remedies. Homeopathic remedies are

available at good health food stores, or through alternative health care

practioners.

I totally understand about the car. I think I'd make the same choice as

you. I just forgot about it as my cars are soooo old they don't have

those new fangle things. Best of luck on your trip.

Lee

Mom to Red, Ada & Angel Lily

________________________________________________________________

The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!

Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!

Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks a BUNCH for the "Hope your trip goes well" We really need a vacation and we really need to see Family.

Your idea about the heavy syrup isn't Strange at all. I think I actually heard that once. I'm quite willing to try anything. We've been on many trips and every time she doesn't fair well. One trip (Before we knew about Mito) She lost 10 lbs. It didn't dawn on me that she has problems with Fasting until she was like 3 and even then, it didn't dawn on me that when she vomitted she wasn't getting the nutrients. I've spent her whole life thinking she was "normal" It wasn't until this last bout of "stomach sickness" and she couldn't go 5 hours before she was in the hospital for IV Fluids, that I realized that was the "problem"

Thanks for the advice.

Love,

Dorothy

Mom of three youngest with Possible Mito

[Guest guest]

,

Home made remedies... Just might work for . I will look into some of them. Do you have any off hand?

I am not sure what 's "motion sickness" problem is. It only occurs on VERY long trips. She can take an 8 hour trip but she cannot take a longer trip. I've never really tried to place her in the front (air bags...) not sure I am willing to risk... possible death for motion sickness relief. I think I would rather end up in the hospital for IV fluids LOL Thanks for the input. If you have any suggestions.. Let me know.

Thanks for your post,

Love, Dorothy

Mom to Kristi, Kaci and

Wife to

[Guest guest]

Barb, I'm in the same boat with ya ! I'm only able to swallow

liquids at this point (esophagus not working correctly and

everything else is too painful or won't go down). When I was in the

hospital recently they started me on BOOST. I got progressively

sicker. Come to find out, I was allergic to the Soy which is found

in almost every supplemental drink. Also, keep in mind that BOOST

has approximately 23grams of sugar and ENSURE has about 18grams of

sugar. For a person with GI problems that's not good ! Sugar is

toxic to the body. I realize they need to add sugar to make their

products tasty and for people to want to buy them but it's not good

to have that much sugar. Soy is also a known allergen which has

proven lately to contribute to dementia.

I did happen to find a product called Naturade that has neither of

these. They use pea, rice and potato proteins instead.

All Natural Vegetable Protein, Soy Free

From: Naturade

2 lb

List Price: $30.99

Our Price: $24.79

---------------------------------------------------------------------

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You Save: $6.20 (20%) Quantity:

Read reviews on All Natural Vegetable Protein, Soy Free

Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours

Email All Natural Vegetable Protein, Soy Free to a friend

Description:

Contains absolutely no animal products or sugar. This protein

formula is derived from 100% plant sources. An ideal supplement to

low carbohydrate diets, Vegetable Protein Powder is enriched with

methionine and lysine (essential Amino Acids) to compensate for the

most common deficiencies in a vegetarian diet. Mixes instantly with

any liquid. Because of its pleasant natural flavor, Naturade's

Vegetable protein can be mixed with any food, soups or added to

baking recipes. An ideal supplement for those people who have

eliminated meat and milk products from their diets.

Ingredients:

Ingredients: Protein Blend (Pea Protein Isolate, Rice Protein,

Potato Protein Hydrolysate, Spirulina) Tricalcium Phosphate, Fiber

Blend (Rice Bran, Corn Bran, Apple Fiber, Oat Fiber, Pea Fiber),

Natural Flavors, Reishi and Shiitake Mushroom Extract, Enzyme Blend

(Papain and Bromelain), DL-Methionine, L-Lysine Hydrochloride and

Cyanocobalamin.

Recommended Use:

Drinks and smoothies - Stir or shake 1/3 cup (28.4 g) into 8 oz of

your favorite juice or beverage. For a delicious smoothie, add it to

crushed ice and fruit in a blender. Food Preparation - Use in

cooking to add protein to sauces, soups, stews and casseroles or to

cereals, pancakes and muffins. Vanilla flavor has little taste so

you can add it to most foods.

HOPE THIS HELPS !

bug

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone knows if bipolar,might be associated with mito? My

other questions is,Can someone tell me about gastro motility? If you can help

any, thanks so much.

[Guest guest]

Many of you have been NC and then resumed contact and it would seem that it

does not really do any good for the KO because of the ammunition it gives

the pwBPD (like Tracey mentioned). I am recently NC and have not made a

decision on whether it will be permanent or not as only time will tell

regarding health and FOO issues that might drag me back in. However,

because my nada is a Queen (NPD) BPD person I fear that if I resume contact

I will be constantly nagged and bombarded by guilt and zingers because I

didn't speak to nada and fada and took their only precious grandchildren

away from them. It fuels my desire not to resume contact EVER because it

would seem that it never works out for the best for the KO and just piles on

more abuse. However, from reading a lot of posts here and on

www.BPDfamily.com it would seem that some people drift in and out of NC over

many years - what does that look like?

Looking back do any of you that resumed contact regret it? In the cases

where you did resume contact how did they handle it, or was there a lot of

verbal abuse for your " transgression " against them?

jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@...

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I have been in and out of NC over most of my adult life with Nada. Sometimes

for long periods (5 years) sometimes for 4 weeks and then sometimes for 6 months

and everything in between. This is easier fo rme because she moved away when I

was 18 and hasn't lived in the same state as me since then (I am 46). If she

were living nearby It would be much harder to do NC.

Anyway, I went back to contact again for a variety of reasons. Nada would call

with her fake apology/guilt trip and I would give in or Nada would claim to be

sick or when my father passed etc.

Even though I am NC now, I know I will have contact again because I am an only

child and Nada is getting older (67) and alcholic so her health will eventually

be affected. Our family, what is left, wants nothing to do with her. So, I am

sure eventually I will have to get back in to the mix.

Everytime I do have contact again I regret it because nothing ever changes. It

is a predictable cycle. Nada will be nice for a short while but then she will

get nasty over something i said or did and then bring up everything I " put her

thru " and what a horrible daughter I am becuase I had NC for the last (fill in

the blank) years or months. She never ever takes responsiblity for her

behaviors causing me to go NC. She just blames me totally. Then the battles

start and eventually I am NC again. It is a vicious cycle that will continue as

I don't see her ever changing.

So, being in and out of NC is common for many affected with a BPD parent plus

mine is alcholic so I have a double whammy!

I take the whole NC thing one day at a time. I don't make any hard and fast

rules for how long etc. becuase I don't know. It will be based on life

circumstances, her health etc. for when and how much contact I will have in the

future. I just enjoy the peace I have right now.

Tracey

[Guest guest]

Spot on...

[Guest guest]

--

This is a complicated question. I'll tell you how it went for me.

I went into and out of NC with my parents (Nada and enabling Dad) starting

when I was 17 and left for college in another state. I went back for short

periods of time at some periods in my life, only to be driven away again

and again by Nada's raging. For example, I went home for my first summer at

college, but after a truly marathon rage session, I vowed that I would get

work at school and spend the summers there during college instead of coming

home, and that's what I did. Then after I left school and got work I would

go home for holidays sometimes, and sometimes would host Nada at my place.

Although I avoided her as much as possible I never really " separated " from

her and continued to be dogged by her criticisms and rages throughout my

life. I had never heard of a true NC -- no one, including my various

therapists who helped me with my recurring depression and panic attacks,

ever said to me, " Perhaps you should try not talking to or associating

with your Nada; she has a very bad psychological effect on you. Maybe you

could find somewhere else to go for the Holidays, and you don't HAVE to

talk to her if you don't want to, no matter what she says. "

In 2007, my Dad passed away and my brother and my Nada started lobbying me

to " come home " to the home state and stay with Nada in her house. My

brother said that Nada was driving him and his family crazy; Nada said how

desperately alone she was and how badly she wanted me " home. " I had always

been upset that my relationship with Nada was so crappy and always thought

there must be something I could do or say that would improve things, or

that time would cause the two of us to grow closer. I had the idea upon

moving back that Dad's death would force Nada to change, to start acting

like a real mother, so we could at last be a real family. I knew NOTHING

-- nothing at all -- about personality disorders and how they affect people

who have them, and those who have to live with those who have them. I

didn't realize how difficult they were to change, how resistant the

sufferers were to getting the help they needed. I always thought that

since therapy helped me so much, if I could just get Nada to go to therapy,

she would feel relief and would benefit from it and would improve. I

simply did not understand what I was dealing with.

Last year things fell apart for good, I finally stumbled across some

information on BPD and what it does, and I now understand that there is

nothing I can do to " fix " my Nada and our family. I can't make her get

therapy, and even if I could it wouldn't help her unless SHE wanted it to.

So now I'm on my way to what will be essentially a permanent, true NC. I

will be moving out of Nada's house in a few weeks, and there will be no

discussions, no phone calls, no letters, no email, and certainly no visits

by me to " home " (ha!) or her to my place in my other state. Perhaps after

I've recovered from the trauma of being under her roof again (going on five

seemingly endless years!) I'll be able to engage in a " medium chill "

relationship, but perhaps not, and I'm not going to beat myself up if I

decide to keep the NC at maximum level.

For me, the " going home " process was necessary for me to finally, at long

last, understand the true shape of my relationship with my Nada, and the

futility of the path I was taking with our relationship. The constant

" boomeranging " in and out of contact with her over the years eventually led

me to hunt far and wide until I found the truth. In that sense it was an

important and required step, that I keep bouncing back until I settled in

my own mind the question of " What did I do wrong? What could I do

differently? " That question ate me up over the years. I didn't realize, or

perhaps just didn't want to admit, the limits of my own power to repair my

broken mother-daughter relationship. It took a lot of time and a lot of

help for me to start to learn to let go.

Now, this might not be necessary for everyone. I've known people who cut

themselves cleanly away from abusive parents at age eighteen and never

looked back, and I am envious of their strength and inner compass, their

ability to simply let go and move on. Until last year I never had that

strength or surety, and I'm glad to finally have it. But there's a part of

me that will always mourn how long it took me to figure out how hopeless

the situation with Nada was, how utterly impossible it was to ever make her

happy and content. Happiness and contentment are not things that you can

give someone else if they have none of those qualities inside of themselves

to begin with. I wish someone had told me, when I was younger, that my

mother had an intractable mental illness that was driving her crazy

behavior, and that that was what was going on, even if she could not admit

that.

If I could rewrite my own history, I would go back to my college-age self

and say:

" I want you to stop believing that she's going to change, to improve. I

want you to stop thinking that there's anything YOU can do to make her

better. You can't. Escape is your only option. You left her behind; that's

good. Now you need to stay away and build a life without her. It's not your

fault -- you were a good kid, an excellent kid in fact, one that any sane

mother would have been terrifically proud of. She's just not capable of

being a better mother, and she won't get help, particularly if you keep

returning to contact with her and putting up with her demands that you

accept the emotional abuse that is so damaging to your mental and spiritual

health. It's hard to realize that you are essentially orphaned when your

mother's physical body is still walking around on the Earth, but that's

what you are -- an emotional orphan. You can survive and you can thrive,

but you can't do it while you are tied to this miserable, suffering,

stubborn, prideful woman who knows she is messed up but refuses to seek

help or admit that she has problems. IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT, and you CAN'T

FIX IT, and it won't go away on its own, either. Get out, stay out, and

avoid the FOG. Go on, move forward, don't look back, live a good life, and

God bless. "

So to answer your question about relenting on NC: You need to figure out

what exactly it is you're after and what price you are willing to pay to

get it. Exactly how toxic is your Nada to you? Some are more so, some are

less, and some Adult Children are better able to cope with their Nada's

behavior than others. How bad is she to you, and how good is your

resilience, and also your outside support system? If you resume contact,

you may feel better about being a " good daughter " and you may feel like you

are meeting society's expectations for how adult children should relate to

their parents. But your Nada will definitely find ways to make you pay for

going NC in the first place. Nadas can be very, very vindictive, and their

blindness to their own behavior leads them to see themselves as pure

victims of ungrateful children; she's not going to let go of her victim

status, ever. Yes, you will probably get verbally abused in subtle and

not-so-subtle ways as she makes you pay for " deliberately hurting her for

no reason. " Can you tolerate that? SHOULD you tolerate that? Are the

benefits you will get from tolerating that worth the cost? You'll have to

figure those things out for yourself.

And I don't know your situation, but breaking free of a Nada seems to be a

lot like dropping any other harmful addiction -- you generally have to try

and fail a few times before you can make the decision to stay away from

what you know is bad for you. If you are still in the process of coming to

grips with how unlikely it is that your Nada will ever change, will ever

learn to be kind and decent and gentle and loving with you, then you may

not be ready yourself for a permanent NC. If you have to keep bouncing

back until you finally can feel that a permanent NC is the right thing FOR

YOU to do, that's okay. You need to settle the question of your

relationship to your Nada in your own way and time.

Dig into your own mind and heart and ask yourself the hard questions: Why

do I want to do this? What am I hoping for? How reasonable are those hopes?

What will I change about my approach next time if my hopes don't come to

pass? What is my ultimate goal here?

" Know Thyself " is critically important when you have a personality

disordered parent. Figure out what YOU value and why. Figure out what you

want, and what you are willing to pay or suffer to get what you want.

Remind yourself that you can't control other people, only yourself, and

base your hopes and expectations only on what YOU will do, not on what you

want others to do. Judge carefully what risks you may be taking, and then

make a choice and act on it. Don't beat yourself up if it doesn't work out

-- you always have the opportunity to choose differently in the future,

until your last day.

Best of luck, and I hope you find the path that works for you.

-- Jen H.

On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Renslow jwjrenslow@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

>

>

> Many of you have been NC and then resumed contact and it would seem that it

> does not really do any good for the KO because of the ammunition it gives

> the pwBPD (like Tracey mentioned). I am recently NC and have not made a

> decision on whether it will be permanent or not as only time will tell

> regarding health and FOO issues that might drag me back in. However,

> because my nada is a Queen (NPD) BPD person I fear that if I resume contact

> I will be constantly nagged and bombarded by guilt and zingers because I

> didn't speak to nada and fada and took their only precious grandchildren

> away from them. It fuels my desire not to resume contact EVER because it

> would seem that it never works out for the best for the KO and just piles

> on

> more abuse. However, from reading a lot of posts here and on

> www.BPDfamily.com it would seem that some people drift in and out of NC

> over

> many years - what does that look like?

>

> Looking back do any of you that resumed contact regret it? In the cases

> where you did resume contact how did they handle it, or was there a lot of

> verbal abuse for your " transgression " against them?

>

>

>

> jwjrenslow@...> jwjrenslow@...

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Janice --

> To answer your question, we had to get nada out of jail. Remaining NC and

> allowing a 74 year old sit in jail is unacceptable.

>

Why is it unacceptable,and to who? If she committed a crime, she can sit in

jail and learn her lesson. I assume they aren't starving, freezing, or

torturing her in there; why shouldn't she just stay put? Why do you have

to rescue her?

Is it that you'll feel guilty for letting her deal with the consequences of

her own actions, or is it that you can't stand what you think will be the

public shame, people pointing fingers at you and going " You let your

elderly mother stay in jail instead of working your butt off to get her

out! SHAME on you! " They don't know you, they don't know your Nada -- you

can safely ignore them.

-- Jen H.

[Guest guest]

Hi Janice,

My Nada also does things that have landed her in jail and guess what....I

did not bail her out. Nada's need to accept that there are consequences

for their bad behaviors just like there is for everyone else on the planet.

My Nada is 67 years old and her drunk, belligerent behavior got her tossed

out of her last home with a restraining order against her. She was in

jail overnight and I did not bail her out she got out on her own. One of

the problems my Nada has is that she never had to deal with consequences

everyone always bailed her out . Now that most of her " enablers " are

either dead or done with her she still expects that from me but I told her

forget it I am not YOUR mother and I am not going to pick up where she left

off. If you want to act like a drunk raging lunatic or steal or whatever

and get arrested you will sit in jail because I won't bail you out.

Nada hated jail and ranted and raved how I, her daughter, could leave her

in jail. Yet she could not see that her ugly, drunk, raging behavior is

what landed her there. Nope, it was once again my fault for leaving her

there. Yes it is sad they are in jail but how sad is it that an elderly

woman is doing things to be thrown in a jail? I no longer see it as my

responsibility to rescue Nada when she gets herself into these messes and

dramas. She got herself in it and she can get herself out.

Tracey

[Guest guest]

,

I'm stunned at how similar your story is to mine. My mother isn't an

alcoholic but a prescription drug junkie. With attitude for days and a

mouth like a sailor. She doesn't recognize rules or boundaries...does

whatever and says whaterver she wants to whoever she wants. I can't

believe someone hasn't beaten her to death with a baseball bat. She lives

in the deep South and the racial slurs that fly out of her mouth is

shocking. Shocking.

She comes from a very solid family full of successful overachievers. But

my mom was " the beauty queen " and lived off of her looks for most of her

life. Men tripped over their tongues to get near her, marry her and

divorce her as she is a raging lunatic. I'm sure she feels she was the

prettiest one in jail. There is no end to her entitlement.

You're right...I needed to get her out because I didn't want to be judged

for not doing so. Afterall, she's a 74 year old woman and " for better or

worse, she's your mother " . I've spent most of my life worrying about what

people think/say about me. Wish I knew how to adopt an F-You attitude.

Nada was on probation violation for some traffic stuff which was the reason

she was locked up for 32 days. 30 days miniumum and two more days for us

to navigate getting her sprung as all of us involved live on the other side

of the country. She hated it there but, that said, loved the attention.

I'm wondering how long before she has a return trip...just for the

attention again. I swear, " As God is My Witness " (Scarlett O'Hara

line), if it happens again I won't be dropping a penny to get her out.

That's a promise...

[Guest guest]

On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Janice Hall janicehalldesigns@...>wrote:

> **

>

> Wish I knew how to adopt an F-You attitude.

>

An " FU " attitude isn't what's needed -- it's a polite, gentle, " Please mind

your own business " attitude (MYOB.) People who don't know your mother

aren't entitled to give you advice on how to cope with her, that's all.

Firmly but quietly rebuff them and do what you need to do. If you adopt

an " FU " attitude they'll come away more convinced that you're the bad guy.

You want to be calm and centered, not angrily defensive, when you

encounter folks who may try to shame you into doing what THEY think needs

to be done, not what YOU think needs to be done.

-- Jen H.

[Guest guest]

I hear you...

It's not really an F-You attitude as that's not who I am...

I really need to pay attention to what I write in this group as the message

received is not always how it would be heard in person. I was actually

being a bit sarcastic.

MYOB is more ladylike...

)))

[Guest guest]

I appreciate all your responses!

Thank you, Jen! I cannot begin to imagine moving back in with my nada and

living 5 years without being a basket case. It is very strong and healthy

of you to have found the source of the problem and worked through the path

to escape all the while living in the same house as her!

I will contemplate all the questions you asked about the whys and hows of

NC. If it were only me I would run away screaming and never look back (I

too never heard NC was okay until this last summer). However, with 3

children that keep asking when they get to see nada again it makes it

difficult. I have very few flying monkeys to deal with so it is just a

matter of FOG and the possibility of health issues with my nada and enDad

that would bring me back into the mix. When I first went NC I thought it

would be for just a few weeks, but certainly no more than a few months.

However, now that it has been over a month my head is clearing and I'm

realizing that I don't like being around her even when she is being nice.

She has become so self-absorbed that she just grates on me and I literally

just tolerate her presence. She knew this and pointed it out all the time

and I seriously thought there must be something wrong with me for not only

having no love for my mother but not even liking her either. I was SO

relieved to realize that I would love her and like her if she were not BPD,

if she could be anything other than a Queen/Waif mix that sucked me dry of

any happiness. I lived out of state for 10 years to get away from nada and

only moved back last year and since my move back I dove into a deep

depression and hated life (there is nothing wrong with my life). To realize

that she was the cause of it and that I have joy and peace and love my life

since I kicked her out of it makes it sound like an amazingly stupid idea to

go back into contact - but as I'm sure most of you can attest to - she has

always had control and I'm always in fear that she'll find her way back in

and I won't have the strength to stop it. I am very thankful for this group

that continues to give me strength and hope that I can keep her away and

continue to be happy.

[Guest guest]

Hi Janice,

When you combine addiction with BPD and throw in some NPD for good measure

what you come out with a lot of the time is a sociopath. Someone who can

be charming, and manipulative to get what they want when they want but lacks

empathy and feels the world owes them something. Rules don't apply to them

they are better than the rest of us and don't have to follow rules or social

graces. They can do what they want and to hell with everyone else.

My Nada always had an enormous sense of entitlement. She was spoiled as a

child and allowed to get her way at every turn. As an adult she capitalized

off of her looks and used and abused most everyone in her path till they

left. She never held a job for long as she could not take orders or get

along with anyone. She lived off others and thought nothing of going in to

a store and stealing what she could not afford to buy. She would get

parking tickets or moving violations and rip them up and throw them out the

window. She has no regard for laws, police etc. none of it ever scared

her.

Right now she is driving around with no car insurance and borrowing peter to

pay paul but she doesn't care. She drinks her way thru it all and makes sure

she looks good doing it. She never misses a haircut or a nice outfit. She

never skimps on herself. I am sure she is still stealing things from stores.

I think she definitely has traits of anti-social personality (deviant)

behaviors. She will laughingly say she has a criminal mind, and she does.

Make no mistake about it she will emotionally, and financially bankrupt you

and when she is done will walk away and not even look back. She can be

heartless, I have seen and experienced it myself.

I have to keep very strict boundaries with her because she takes kindness

for weakness and she will go in for the kill! So staying as far away

location wise is the only option for me. As for the NC, I have gone in and

out of that over the years. She is truly a nightmare to deal with and shows

no signs of slowing down with age.

Tracey

[Guest guest]

" After all she's your mother " is a sentiment it sounds like people use to

keep the messed up situations going. It's easier to not rock the boat. No

it isn't!

MYOB is very important for people to grasp. People who are going to judge

are going to either way. I realized I am terrified of disapproval because

deep down I DISAPROVE of myself so I couldn't stand anyone heaping onto

that. That's going to change ASAP. I approve of myself from now on and if

anyone doesn't, too bad.

On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Renslow jwjrenslow@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

>

>

> I appreciate all your responses!

>

> Thank you, Jen! I cannot begin to imagine moving back in with my nada and

> living 5 years without being a basket case. It is very strong and healthy

> of you to have found the source of the problem and worked through the path

> to escape all the while living in the same house as her!

>

> I will contemplate all the questions you asked about the whys and hows of

> NC. If it were only me I would run away screaming and never look back (I

> too never heard NC was okay until this last summer). However, with 3

> children that keep asking when they get to see nada again it makes it

> difficult. I have very few flying monkeys to deal with so it is just a

> matter of FOG and the possibility of health issues with my nada and enDad

> that would bring me back into the mix. When I first went NC I thought it

> would be for just a few weeks, but certainly no more than a few months.

> However, now that it has been over a month my head is clearing and I'm

> realizing that I don't like being around her even when she is being nice.

> She has become so self-absorbed that she just grates on me and I literally

> just tolerate her presence. She knew this and pointed it out all the time

> and I seriously thought there must be something wrong with me for not only

> having no love for my mother but not even liking her either. I was SO

> relieved to realize that I would love her and like her if she were not BPD,

> if she could be anything other than a Queen/Waif mix that sucked me dry of

> any happiness. I lived out of state for 10 years to get away from nada and

> only moved back last year and since my move back I dove into a deep

> depression and hated life (there is nothing wrong with my life). To realize

> that she was the cause of it and that I have joy and peace and love my life

> since I kicked her out of it makes it sound like an amazingly stupid idea

> to

> go back into contact - but as I'm sure most of you can attest to - she has

> always had control and I'm always in fear that she'll find her way back in

> and I won't have the strength to stop it. I am very thankful for this group

> that continues to give me strength and hope that I can keep her away and

> continue to be happy.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I cannot count how many times I have heard the,,,, " After all she is your

mother " . Always said from those who didn't want to deal with whatever drama or

crisis Nada has gotten herself into so of course, they wanted to guilt me into

doing it (whatever it is) usually cleaning up the mess!

Nadas sister used to say this to me because she didn't want Nada showing up on

her door step. So to keep a safe distance it was easier to dump the problem on

me and guilt me into doing something based on the fact that after all I was her

daughter.

After awile I got sick of it and My response was, Yes she is my mother but that

does not mean I have to tolerate abuse or clean up after her mess. She is an

adult and responsible for herself. She got herself into it and will just have

to get herself out.

Boy they didn't like that and cut contact with Nada totally as they realized I

was no longer going to be guilted into rescuing or cleaning up after Nada and

they surely didn't want to be stuck with her so that was the end of what little

family she had left.

[Guest guest]

I like your attitude. I'm so tired of that phrase: After all, she's your

mother. " As if we should forgive or tolerate anything and everything she dishes

out. Would we be expected to tolerate that kind of treatment from a friend, a

boss, a different family member? Of course not. But there seems to be some holy

halo given to all moms no matter who they are. Ick.

Yes, people should MYOB unless they've walked a mile in your shoes/lived a year

with your nada.

I understand the self disapproval and judgement. My counselor pointed it out to

me. I had these neat questions to ask her and she pointed out that they sounded

more like I was judging myself as weak or " over-reacting " instead of being a

worthy human being with feelings. I used quotes on the over-reacting because

that's the very word I used.

I'm proud of you that you can be who you are with your own opinions and

reactions and not feel forced to defend them. Keep up the good work.

>

> " After all she's your mother " is a sentiment it sounds like people use to

> keep the messed up situations going. It's easier to not rock the boat. No

> it isn't!

>

> MYOB is very important for people to grasp. People who are going to judge

> are going to either way. I realized I am terrified of disapproval because

> deep down I DISAPROVE of myself so I couldn't stand anyone heaping onto

> that. That's going to change ASAP. I approve of myself from now on and if

> anyone doesn't, too bad.

>

[Guest guest]

,

What you just wrote describes my mother to a T. No kidding.

I've been reading through so many stories and posts, but from what you have

described, you and I have identical experiences. I just shared your post

with my husband and he asked if I had written what you shared and signed my

name to it. That's how close to came to my life. Unbelievable.

I'm curious...how has life worked out for you at this point? Although you

have to be as tormented as I, have you been able to turn the torment into

something productive?

I am really glad to have " met " you...

Janice