Advice: give journal of nada's behavior to her doctor?

[Guest guest]

I've been struggling with this for some time. A couple years ago I started a

journal of nada's behavior, things I thought were just not quite right. I don't

mean her usual cold, mean, critical BPD behavior but new things showing

confusion, paranoia, etc. I wanted to write them down for my sake because I

figured I was biased and only thought the worst of her behavior, that maybe I

was exaggerating these things in my mind.

Then the past year or so I wanted to share my observations with her doctor but

was afraid to because if they showed her, nada would explode emotionally. It

would defeat the purpose. When she visits her doctor, she's quite lucid and

happy-go-lucky. But in her daily life she has shown less ability to do the daily

things we need to do like cook, pay bills, understand her mail. She even talks

about getting confused/lost in her own home. Considering her failing health

(weight loss, weakness, cognitive slips) I thought her doctors should know.

Now that she's made it clear how much she detests us, accused us of lying and

stealing from her for years and she never wants to see us again, I'm strongly

inclined to share this journal with her doctor. I have nothing to lose and it

may help them in making decisions for her care.

I'm trying to be objective, not use this as a weapon to discredit her but I

still worry about her living without assistance. I didn't enjoy being her

whipping boy but I could feel good about helping her. So should I share the

journal or not?

[Guest guest]

Irene,

Am I remembering right that you've been in contact with the

nurse at her doctor's office about your concerns? If so, it

makes sense to me to call the office and ask if it would be

helpful if you shared the journal.

At 10:45 AM 12/05/2012 IreneM wrote:

>I've been struggling with this for some time. A couple years

>ago I started a journal of nada's behavior, things I thought

>were just not quite right. I don't mean her usual cold, mean,

>critical BPD behavior but new things showing confusion,

>paranoia, etc. I wanted to write them down for my sake because

>I figured I was biased and only thought the worst of her

>behavior, that maybe I was exaggerating these things in my mind.

>

>Then the past year or so I wanted to share my observations with

>her doctor but was afraid to because if they showed her, nada

>would explode emotionally. It would defeat the purpose. When

>she visits her doctor, she's quite lucid and happy-go-lucky.

>But in her daily life she has shown less ability to do the

>daily things we need to do like cook, pay bills, understand her

>mail. She even talks about getting confused/lost in her own

>home. Considering her failing health (weight loss, weakness,

>cognitive slips) I thought her doctors should know.

>

>Now that she's made it clear how much she detests us, accused

>us of lying and stealing from her for years and she never wants

>to see us again, I'm strongly inclined to share this journal

>with her doctor. I have nothing to lose and it may help them in

>making decisions for her care.

>

>I'm trying to be objective, not use this as a weapon to

>discredit her but I still worry about her living without

>assistance. I didn't enjoy being her whipping boy but I could

>feel good about helping her. So should I share the journal or

>not?

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

The thing is, that as long as your nada can pull her act together and appear

lucid for her doctor, she will still be considered competent to make her own

decisions and able to care for herself properly.

My nada was able to appear quite lucid and even charming for her doctors for

quite a long time after her memory loss, paranoia and hallucinating first

started. She even went to see a psychiatrist for an evaluation at her own

sister's (our aunt's) urging (after nada started talking about getting a gun)

but at that time the most that the psychiatrist would say was that possibly nada

had early signs of dementia; he gave her some mood-stabilizing med, and an

anti-psychotic med, which nada (apparently) did not take.

However, if you are at a point that you are afraid for your nada's *safety,*

then perhaps it is time to arrange for a consultation with your nada's doctor

and tell him about *RECENT specific behaviors your nada is engaging in that are

potentially DANGEROUS* such as:

Has she forgotten more than a couple times to off the oven or the stove burners?

Has she caused a car accident (either as a driver, rider, or as a pedestrian?)

Does she forget to lock her doors?

Has she started hiding or burying important documents/money and then forgetting

where she hid them?

Has she gotten lost while outside, needing police or others' help to return

home?

Has she become belligerent with others (has she provoked yelling matches with

strangers or neighbors, threatened violence, taken a swing at someone, etc.?)

-or-

Has she become overly-friendly with strangers? (My nada began handing out money

to strange men and attempting to pick up small children from their front stoop

and take them into her home without their mother's knowledge!)

Has she recently acquired a gun & ammo?

etc.

Even if your nada's doctor doesn't feel that she is at the point of being

incompetent to care for herself, he will be aware that when your nada is at home

she is beginning to engage in potentially dangerous behaviors that could harm

herself or others.

That is what doctors are trying to determine; has their patient reached a point

where he or she is a *danger* to herself or to others?

I hope that helps.

-Annie

>

> I've been struggling with this for some time. A couple years ago I started a

journal of nada's behavior, things I thought were just not quite right. I don't

mean her usual cold, mean, critical BPD behavior but new things showing

confusion, paranoia, etc. I wanted to write them down for my sake because I

figured I was biased and only thought the worst of her behavior, that maybe I

was exaggerating these things in my mind.

>

> Then the past year or so I wanted to share my observations with her doctor but

was afraid to because if they showed her, nada would explode emotionally. It

would defeat the purpose. When she visits her doctor, she's quite lucid and

happy-go-lucky. But in her daily life she has shown less ability to do the daily

things we need to do like cook, pay bills, understand her mail. She even talks

about getting confused/lost in her own home. Considering her failing health

(weight loss, weakness, cognitive slips) I thought her doctors should know.

>

> Now that she's made it clear how much she detests us, accused us of lying and

stealing from her for years and she never wants to see us again, I'm strongly

inclined to share this journal with her doctor. I have nothing to lose and it

may help them in making decisions for her care.

>

> I'm trying to be objective, not use this as a weapon to discredit her but I

still worry about her living without assistance. I didn't enjoy being her

whipping boy but I could feel good about helping her. So should I share the

journal or not?

>

[Guest guest]

First: thank you Katrina for the input. Yes, I have spoken with nada's nurse a

couple of times. I think it would be polite to ask her if she even wants the

information before I dump it on her.

Annie: interesting list. When we contacted Adult Protection Services, those were

similar questions they asked. There has to be a clear danger to herself or

others before they'll act. I guess I want to share the info with the doctor so

they can see the changes taking place. Not that nada needs to be put in a home

but she does need some in-home help to get things done like pay bills, go

shopping. Going over your list I come up with interesting answers.

Nada doesn't really cook any more because she can't follow the directions. Even

a TV dinner befuddles her. She will boil eggs for her dog but she cooks them by

boiling till they explode. Quite well done.

She hasn't driven much since my Dad died. But shortly before he died she drove

the car through a plate glass window at the hardware store. She also said she's

stopped people to help her roll up the windows in the car. Attention getting?

Maybe.

She hides stuff all the time and forgets where it is. Even when I was there she

would hide her purse moment to moment (while my back was turned or I was in the

bathroom) and then get upset because she couldn't find things. All this paranoia

is why things are missing (even scissors and doggie brushes) and has led her to

accuse us.

She's had yelling matches with one of the neighbors who borrowed money (over

$1000) and then nada claims she didn't pay it all back. There's no way to know

exactly what happened. All I've seen is the painful letter the woman wrote to

nada explaining that she did return it all. But it got ugly for awhile.

She does hand out money randomly to people: $50 to her lawn man for helping her

open her back door; $50 to a waitress, she has given large gifts in the past to

her nurse and doctor ($50 - 100 gift cards) at Christmas. Since that's

considered a no-no, I'm not sure what they do with them. She tried that with one

doctor who explained that she wasn't allowed to accept gifts and nada blew up.

She hasn't bought a gun yet but she really, really wants to. Then I would be

afraid.

Strange behavior: meeting us in her home with nothing but a bra and pants on

saying she was too hot. Inviting my husband to crawl under the blankets with her

in the hospital room.

The list goes on. Nothing extremely dangerous but certainly not quite normal. I

was hoping they could simply get a better feel for her slide down the slippery

slope before it's too late.

>

> The thing is, that as long as your nada can pull her act together and appear

lucid for her doctor, she will still be considered competent to make her own

decisions and able to care for herself properly.

>

> My nada was able to appear quite lucid and even charming for her doctors for

quite a long time after her memory loss, paranoia and hallucinating first

started. She even went to see a psychiatrist for an evaluation at her own

sister's (our aunt's) urging (after nada started talking about getting a gun)

but at that time the most that the psychiatrist would say was that possibly nada

had early signs of dementia; he gave her some mood-stabilizing med, and an

anti-psychotic med, which nada (apparently) did not take.

>

> However, if you are at a point that you are afraid for your nada's *safety,*

then perhaps it is time to arrange for a consultation with your nada's doctor

and tell him about *RECENT specific behaviors your nada is engaging in that are

potentially DANGEROUS* such as:

>

> Has she forgotten more than a couple times to off the oven or the stove

burners?

> Has she caused a car accident (either as a driver, rider, or as a pedestrian?)

> Does she forget to lock her doors?

> Has she started hiding or burying important documents/money and then

forgetting where she hid them?

> Has she gotten lost while outside, needing police or others' help to return

home?

> Has she become belligerent with others (has she provoked yelling matches with

strangers or neighbors, threatened violence, taken a swing at someone, etc.?)

-or-

> Has she become overly-friendly with strangers? (My nada began handing out

money to strange men and attempting to pick up small children from their front

stoop and take them into her home without their mother's knowledge!)

> Has she recently acquired a gun & ammo?

> etc.

>

> Even if your nada's doctor doesn't feel that she is at the point of being

incompetent to care for herself, he will be aware that when your nada is at home

she is beginning to engage in potentially dangerous behaviors that could harm

herself or others.

>

> That is what doctors are trying to determine; has their patient reached a

point where he or she is a *danger* to herself or to others?

>

> I hope that helps.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If your nada's doctor is open to having a consultation with you about your

nada's increasingly odd, semi-dangerous behaviors, if it doesn't violate some

medical ethics rule or other that he must observe, then I personally think it

wouldn't hurt to have that consultation.

Even if there is nothing that can be done for your nada legally at this point

(because she's still presenting as lucid enough and competent enough to make her

own decisions when she's in his office) it sounds like lucidity is slipping away

from her pretty rapidly.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that your nada will consider the idea of

having a part time care-giver come in to her home to help her do chores and

things, or that she will consider moving into an assisted living residence

before she gets to the point of being a real danger to herself and to others.

(My own fear for my nada was that she would accidentally set her apartment

complex on fire and injure or kill herself or other people that way; Sister told

me that our nada still liked to cook and would sometimes just wander off,

distracted, and leave the burners on. Sister would come over to check up on

nada and find the stove on or the burners on. Gah!)

Best wishes to you; I can relate to how stressful and upsetting all this

" skating near the thin ice " kind of behavior from your nada must be for you.

-Annie

>

> First: thank you Katrina for the input. Yes, I have spoken with nada's nurse a

couple of times. I think it would be polite to ask her if she even wants the

information before I dump it on her.

>

> Annie: interesting list. When we contacted Adult Protection Services, those

were similar questions they asked. There has to be a clear danger to herself or

others before they'll act. I guess I want to share the info with the doctor so

they can see the changes taking place. Not that nada needs to be put in a home

but she does need some in-home help to get things done like pay bills, go

shopping. Going over your list I come up with interesting answers.

>

> Nada doesn't really cook any more because she can't follow the directions.

Even a TV dinner befuddles her. She will boil eggs for her dog but she cooks

them by boiling till they explode. Quite well done.

>

> She hasn't driven much since my Dad died. But shortly before he died she drove

the car through a plate glass window at the hardware store. She also said she's

stopped people to help her roll up the windows in the car. Attention getting?

Maybe.

>

> She hides stuff all the time and forgets where it is. Even when I was there

she would hide her purse moment to moment (while my back was turned or I was in

the bathroom) and then get upset because she couldn't find things. All this

paranoia is why things are missing (even scissors and doggie brushes) and has

led her to accuse us.

>

> She's had yelling matches with one of the neighbors who borrowed money (over

$1000) and then nada claims she didn't pay it all back. There's no way to know

exactly what happened. All I've seen is the painful letter the woman wrote to

nada explaining that she did return it all. But it got ugly for awhile.

>

> She does hand out money randomly to people: $50 to her lawn man for helping

her open her back door; $50 to a waitress, she has given large gifts in the past

to her nurse and doctor ($50 - 100 gift cards) at Christmas. Since that's

considered a no-no, I'm not sure what they do with them. She tried that with one

doctor who explained that she wasn't allowed to accept gifts and nada blew up.

>

> She hasn't bought a gun yet but she really, really wants to. Then I would be

afraid.

>

> Strange behavior: meeting us in her home with nothing but a bra and pants on

saying she was too hot. Inviting my husband to crawl under the blankets with her

in the hospital room.

>

> The list goes on. Nothing extremely dangerous but certainly not quite normal.

I was hoping they could simply get a better feel for her slide down the slippery

slope before it's too late.

[Guest guest]

This sounds awful. I feel bad for you being in this situation. I hope her

animals are safe.

On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 11:10 PM, anuria67854 anuria-67854@...>wrote:

> **

>

>

> If your nada's doctor is open to having a consultation with you about your

> nada's increasingly odd, semi-dangerous behaviors, if it doesn't violate

> some medical ethics rule or other that he must observe, then I personally

> think it wouldn't hurt to have that consultation.

>

> Even if there is nothing that can be done for your nada legally at this

> point (because she's still presenting as lucid enough and competent enough

> to make her own decisions when she's in his office) it sounds like lucidity

> is slipping away from her pretty rapidly.

>

> I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that your nada will consider the idea

> of having a part time care-giver come in to her home to help her do chores

> and things, or that she will consider moving into an assisted living

> residence before she gets to the point of being a real danger to herself

> and to others. (My own fear for my nada was that she would accidentally set

> her apartment complex on fire and injure or kill herself or other people

> that way; Sister told me that our nada still liked to cook and would

> sometimes just wander off, distracted, and leave the burners on. Sister

> would come over to check up on nada and find the stove on or the burners

> on. Gah!)

>

> Best wishes to you; I can relate to how stressful and upsetting all this

> " skating near the thin ice " kind of behavior from your nada must be for you.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > First: thank you Katrina for the input. Yes, I have spoken with nada's

> nurse a couple of times. I think it would be polite to ask her if she even

> wants the information before I dump it on her.

> >

> > Annie: interesting list. When we contacted Adult Protection Services,

> those were similar questions they asked. There has to be a clear danger to

> herself or others before they'll act. I guess I want to share the info with

> the doctor so they can see the changes taking place. Not that nada needs to

> be put in a home but she does need some in-home help to get things done

> like pay bills, go shopping. Going over your list I come up with

> interesting answers.

> >

> > Nada doesn't really cook any more because she can't follow the

> directions. Even a TV dinner befuddles her. She will boil eggs for her dog

> but she cooks them by boiling till they explode. Quite well done.

> >

> > She hasn't driven much since my Dad died. But shortly before he died she

> drove the car through a plate glass window at the hardware store. She also

> said she's stopped people to help her roll up the windows in the car.

> Attention getting? Maybe.

> >

> > She hides stuff all the time and forgets where it is. Even when I was

> there she would hide her purse moment to moment (while my back was turned

> or I was in the bathroom) and then get upset because she couldn't find

> things. All this paranoia is why things are missing (even scissors and

> doggie brushes) and has led her to accuse us.

> >

> > She's had yelling matches with one of the neighbors who borrowed money

> (over $1000) and then nada claims she didn't pay it all back. There's no

> way to know exactly what happened. All I've seen is the painful letter the

> woman wrote to nada explaining that she did return it all. But it got ugly

> for awhile.

> >

> > She does hand out money randomly to people: $50 to her lawn man for

> helping her open her back door; $50 to a waitress, she has given large

> gifts in the past to her nurse and doctor ($50 - 100 gift cards) at

> Christmas. Since that's considered a no-no, I'm not sure what they do with

> them. She tried that with one doctor who explained that she wasn't allowed

> to accept gifts and nada blew up.

> >

> > She hasn't bought a gun yet but she really, really wants to. Then I

> would be afraid.

> >

> > Strange behavior: meeting us in her home with nothing but a bra and

> pants on saying she was too hot. Inviting my husband to crawl under the

> blankets with her in the hospital room.

> >

> > The list goes on. Nothing extremely dangerous but certainly not quite

> normal. I was hoping they could simply get a better feel for her slide down

> the slippery slope before it's too late.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This may come across as terrible but I do wonder how her little dog is doing.

Before I would visit twice a week and call a minimum of twice a week. But now

that there's no contact, I wonder how the dog gets her special dietary needs met

and if nada does have a stroke or dies, how long will it be before someone finds

her? How will the dog survive? Poor little thing.

>

> This sounds awful. I feel bad for you being in this situation. I hope her

> animals are safe.

>