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To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

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Posted
Posted

I am soooooooooo angry at my Nada mother (still NC and no attempt from her

to call me) at this Christmas dilemma of whether to send Greetings or not. I

have never missed a year all my life.

I feel she does not deserve anything after all the treatment over the years

and of late. She has not even tried to call me directly.

Why do I have to feel this debate and internal conflict? I know why. I am

feeling more and more indifferent to mother as the weeks go on. I do not

like most of the person I have seen she is.

So who benefits if I sent some kind of greeting to her? She will never

forgive me for the almost 2 month NC that is in place. She will never trust

me again nor I her. At best I do not know much she lied to me through the

years.

If I do send something..a card.it has to be generic and no LOVE, just my

name. My kids do NOT want their names on this, nor DH..so sad when you

think RATIONALLY about it...but it appears I am the only rational being in

this insanity.

Then what, if I send a card? She is used to very nice gifts from me and

beautiful MERRY CHRSITMAS MOM cards.

She always benefitted the most from our relationship.and now still that

would be again.even if I just sent a card.

I do not want her to call me over the Holidays and upset me if I send

something.even if she sounds nice....HOW do I know what is true now?

What a dilemma..I need to think very long on this. I want to make the

correct choice FOR ME and MY FAMILY.

I will be in some trouble either way and she is hoping I will let all the

past just wash away like previous. That is her ploy until it all starts

again.

I do have my moments...actually I was not good on Friday all day, I was in

tears all over again.. but I was once more tied back into the FOG of what I

used to believe about her. No matter how far I have healed with this, it

comes around again.and will for as long as it takes. I cannot erase yeeeears

in 2 months. But I do not want to waste more time yet..

I go back into the FOG because I feel sorry for her. It comes like a cloud

and I feel great compassion all over again for someone who is not well

mentally. I do not want to hurt her at those times.

In debate with myself.

Twyla

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Posted
Posted

woh, I am where you are! It is so hard but don't send the card. Feel

compassion from a distance. When we make overtures to them I think it's

worse for them. A clean break is better. But this is so very hard.

> **

>

>

> I am soooooooooo angry at my Nada mother (still NC and no attempt from her

> to call me) at this Christmas dilemma of whether to send Greetings or not.

> I

> have never missed a year all my life.

>

> I feel she does not deserve anything after all the treatment over the years

> and of late. She has not even tried to call me directly.

>

> Why do I have to feel this debate and internal conflict? I know why. I am

> feeling more and more indifferent to mother as the weeks go on. I do not

> like most of the person I have seen she is.

>

> So who benefits if I sent some kind of greeting to her? She will never

> forgive me for the almost 2 month NC that is in place. She will never trust

> me again nor I her. At best I do not know much she lied to me through the

> years.

>

> If I do send something..a card.it has to be generic and no LOVE, just my

> name. My kids do NOT want their names on this, nor DH..so sad when you

> think RATIONALLY about it...but it appears I am the only rational being in

> this insanity.

>

> Then what, if I send a card? She is used to very nice gifts from me and

> beautiful MERRY CHRSITMAS MOM cards.

>

> She always benefitted the most from our relationship.and now still that

> would be again.even if I just sent a card.

>

> I do not want her to call me over the Holidays and upset me if I send

> something.even if she sounds nice....HOW do I know what is true now?

>

> What a dilemma..I need to think very long on this. I want to make the

> correct choice FOR ME and MY FAMILY.

>

> I will be in some trouble either way and she is hoping I will let all the

> past just wash away like previous. That is her ploy until it all starts

> again.

>

> I do have my moments...actually I was not good on Friday all day, I was in

> tears all over again.. but I was once more tied back into the FOG of what I

> used to believe about her. No matter how far I have healed with this, it

> comes around again.and will for as long as it takes. I cannot erase

> yeeeears

> in 2 months. But I do not want to waste more time yet..

>

> I go back into the FOG because I feel sorry for her. It comes like a cloud

> and I feel great compassion all over again for someone who is not well

> mentally. I do not want to hurt her at those times.

>

> In debate with myself.

>

> Twyla

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Thank you for your thoughts.

I started writing a draft just in case...but with each line I typed I could

hear her rebuttal......or lie....or denial......so I stopped. I cannot even

finish the draft tonight...maybe never.

I hear what you say...and I hear it from my family and close friends...still

not sure what I will ultimately do. This is all still new for me. I am just

fine then I slip.....

Too bad FOO cannot see the love/feeling that goes into trying to give/help

these impossible people. The damage they do is so vast and life- long...we

will never have another Mother...but to what end do I take this? She is so

much just a shell of a mother. I have been slowly letting all my feelings

come up of her and also from a spiritual perspective. Perhaps it would do

her more good in some important way to have to tough out her losses here to

take wherever she is going after she transitions from this life. Somewhere

my mother still has the power of choice....maybe not as clearly as we might

like, but, I believe it is still there. She chooses to act from her long

developed habits of defense and fear pushing away the sincere love I held so

long for her.

My son says that I still feel this way because I am still wanting

" something " from her. He is right. It is called HOPE.

I have to continue to be as realistic as possible to avoid MORE pain. I

have had enough...yet I still question myself.

Twyla

Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

woh, I am where you are! It is so hard but don't send the card. Feel

compassion from a distance. When we make overtures to them I think it's

worse for them. A clean break is better. But this is so very hard.

> **

>

>

> I am soooooooooo angry at my Nada mother (still NC and no attempt from

> her to call me) at this Christmas dilemma of whether to send Greetings or

not.

> I

> have never missed a year all my life.

>

> I feel she does not deserve anything after all the treatment over the

> years and of late. She has not even tried to call me directly.

>

> Why do I have to feel this debate and internal conflict? I know why. I

> am feeling more and more indifferent to mother as the weeks go on. I

> do not like most of the person I have seen she is.

>

> So who benefits if I sent some kind of greeting to her? She will never

> forgive me for the almost 2 month NC that is in place. She will never

> trust me again nor I her. At best I do not know much she lied to me

> through the years.

>

> If I do send something..a card.it has to be generic and no LOVE, just

> my name. My kids do NOT want their names on this, nor DH..so sad when

> you think RATIONALLY about it...but it appears I am the only rational

> being in this insanity.

>

> Then what, if I send a card? She is used to very nice gifts from me

> and beautiful MERRY CHRSITMAS MOM cards.

>

> She always benefitted the most from our relationship.and now still

> that would be again.even if I just sent a card.

>

> I do not want her to call me over the Holidays and upset me if I send

> something.even if she sounds nice....HOW do I know what is true now?

>

> What a dilemma..I need to think very long on this. I want to make the

> correct choice FOR ME and MY FAMILY.

>

> I will be in some trouble either way and she is hoping I will let all

> the past just wash away like previous. That is her ploy until it all

> starts again.

>

> I do have my moments...actually I was not good on Friday all day, I

> was in tears all over again.. but I was once more tied back into the

> FOG of what I used to believe about her. No matter how far I have

> healed with this, it comes around again.and will for as long as it

> takes. I cannot erase yeeeears in 2 months. But I do not want to waste

> more time yet..

>

> I go back into the FOG because I feel sorry for her. It comes like a

> cloud and I feel great compassion all over again for someone who is

> not well mentally. I do not want to hurt her at those times.

>

> In debate with myself.

>

> Twyla

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Its just very hard and very lose lose. They just can't love us the way we

need and deserve. Very sad.

> **

>

>

> Thank you for your thoughts.

>

> I started writing a draft just in case...but with each line I typed I could

> hear her rebuttal......or lie....or denial......so I stopped. I cannot even

> finish the draft tonight...maybe never.

>

> I hear what you say...and I hear it from my family and close

> friends...still

> not sure what I will ultimately do. This is all still new for me. I am just

> fine then I slip.....

>

> Too bad FOO cannot see the love/feeling that goes into trying to give/help

> these impossible people. The damage they do is so vast and life- long...we

> will never have another Mother...but to what end do I take this? She is so

> much just a shell of a mother. I have been slowly letting all my feelings

> come up of her and also from a spiritual perspective. Perhaps it would do

> her more good in some important way to have to tough out her losses here to

> take wherever she is going after she transitions from this life. Somewhere

> my mother still has the power of choice....maybe not as clearly as we might

> like, but, I believe it is still there. She chooses to act from her long

> developed habits of defense and fear pushing away the sincere love I held

> so

> long for her.

>

> My son says that I still feel this way because I am still wanting

> " something " from her. He is right. It is called HOPE.

>

> I have to continue to be as realistic as possible to avoid MORE pain. I

> have had enough...yet I still question myself.

>

> Twyla

>

> Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

>

> woh, I am where you are! It is so hard but don't send the card. Feel

> compassion from a distance. When we make overtures to them I think it's

> worse for them. A clean break is better. But this is so very hard.

>

>

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > I am soooooooooo angry at my Nada mother (still NC and no attempt from

> > her to call me) at this Christmas dilemma of whether to send Greetings or

> not.

> > I

> > have never missed a year all my life.

> >

> > I feel she does not deserve anything after all the treatment over the

> > years and of late. She has not even tried to call me directly.

> >

> > Why do I have to feel this debate and internal conflict? I know why. I

> > am feeling more and more indifferent to mother as the weeks go on. I

> > do not like most of the person I have seen she is.

> >

> > So who benefits if I sent some kind of greeting to her? She will never

> > forgive me for the almost 2 month NC that is in place. She will never

> > trust me again nor I her. At best I do not know much she lied to me

> > through the years.

> >

> > If I do send something..a card.it has to be generic and no LOVE, just

> > my name. My kids do NOT want their names on this, nor DH..so sad when

> > you think RATIONALLY about it...but it appears I am the only rational

> > being in this insanity.

> >

> > Then what, if I send a card? She is used to very nice gifts from me

> > and beautiful MERRY CHRSITMAS MOM cards.

> >

> > She always benefitted the most from our relationship.and now still

> > that would be again.even if I just sent a card.

> >

> > I do not want her to call me over the Holidays and upset me if I send

> > something.even if she sounds nice....HOW do I know what is true now?

> >

> > What a dilemma..I need to think very long on this. I want to make the

> > correct choice FOR ME and MY FAMILY.

> >

> > I will be in some trouble either way and she is hoping I will let all

> > the past just wash away like previous. That is her ploy until it all

> > starts again.

> >

> > I do have my moments...actually I was not good on Friday all day, I

> > was in tears all over again.. but I was once more tied back into the

> > FOG of what I used to believe about her. No matter how far I have

> > healed with this, it comes around again.and will for as long as it

> > takes. I cannot erase yeeeears in 2 months. But I do not want to waste

> > more time yet..

> >

> > I go back into the FOG because I feel sorry for her. It comes like a

> > cloud and I feel great compassion all over again for someone who is

> > not well mentally. I do not want to hurt her at those times.

> >

> > In debate with myself.

> >

> > Twyla

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Hi Twyla,

In my attempt to honor my kids' right to have a " grand-mother " (however little

of it she is able to be, having abandoned on and off them as well) I always

insisted they write a thank you card if they got a card for xmass or their

birthday from her event though they got those inconsistently making it crystal

clear that she outright forgot them and was indifferent to how they were doing.

By the way she justified that by saying " far from the eyes far from the heart "

too bad we had been saying " distance make the heart grow fonder " the whole time!

I reminded them one last time when they turned 18 and then left it up to them.

Right now it seems they can't seem to be able to get themselves to go to the

trouble, due to her inconsistence and I say, " so be it; that's out of my hands

now " .

But as far as your debate over sending her a card - without meaning to diminish

the monumental effort it take to go NC for two months -- when you really think

about it, given the scale of things, two months is not much. I realize this is

a very sad thing to say but you seem to have a sense of what's coming if you

break NC.

Honore your take on your past experiences, be honest with yourself about what is

good for you and what is wishful thinking about a fairy tail relationship and be

clear about the message you wanted to get across by going NC in the first place.

Were you giving her a slight slap on the fingers and will that be enough for her

to " get it " or were you trying to achieve something else starting with creating

a peaceful space for you to hear, feel yourself think and grow freely, and so

much more......................

Breaking the routine by not sending the xmass card will reinforce what you were

trying to achieve in the first place and all the more so because it will be the

first time you've change your pattern of behavior in this season.

Think about it if anything is going to change it will be because you've taken

the lead on changing things and your behavior right now is the only thing you

can control.

I used to feel guilty / sad just thinking about it. Now I'm just taking care of

myself and that's a more nurturant xmass present than my nada could ever make

me.

What I hate about being in a relationship with my nada as much as going NC is

that either way, it deprives me of what I consider my right to care. I've always

enjoyed doing things for her, I needed to express that love to her. The problem

is what SHE did with that.

Sometimes when I am in the kind of dilema you seem to be in, I find that

doubling my effort to reinforce my relationships with others, who are fully able

to be on the receiving end without turning it into an opportunity for abuse or

drama, makes my pleasing them impressively therapeutical.

I tell myself " feel the love " .... " and don't forget self-love " .

C.

>

> I am soooooooooo angry at my Nada mother (still NC and no attempt from her

> to call me) at this Christmas dilemma of whether to send Greetings or not. I

> have never missed a year all my life.

>

>

>

> I feel she does not deserve anything after all the treatment over the years

> and of late. She has not even tried to call me directly.

>

>

>

> Why do I have to feel this debate and internal conflict? I know why. I am

> feeling more and more indifferent to mother as the weeks go on. I do not

> like most of the person I have seen she is.

>

> So who benefits if I sent some kind of greeting to her? She will never

> forgive me for the almost 2 month NC that is in place. She will never trust

> me again nor I her. At best I do not know much she lied to me through the

> years.

>

>

>

> If I do send something..a card.it has to be generic and no LOVE, just my

> name. My kids do NOT want their names on this, nor DH..so sad when you

> think RATIONALLY about it...but it appears I am the only rational being in

> this insanity.

>

>

>

> Then what, if I send a card? She is used to very nice gifts from me and

> beautiful MERRY CHRSITMAS MOM cards.

>

>

>

> She always benefitted the most from our relationship.and now still that

> would be again.even if I just sent a card.

>

>

>

> I do not want her to call me over the Holidays and upset me if I send

> something.even if she sounds nice....HOW do I know what is true now?

>

>

>

> What a dilemma..I need to think very long on this. I want to make the

> correct choice FOR ME and MY FAMILY.

>

>

>

> I will be in some trouble either way and she is hoping I will let all the

> past just wash away like previous. That is her ploy until it all starts

> again.

>

>

>

> I do have my moments...actually I was not good on Friday all day, I was in

> tears all over again.. but I was once more tied back into the FOG of what I

> used to believe about her. No matter how far I have healed with this, it

> comes around again.and will for as long as it takes. I cannot erase yeeeears

> in 2 months. But I do not want to waste more time yet..

>

>

>

> I go back into the FOG because I feel sorry for her. It comes like a cloud

> and I feel great compassion all over again for someone who is not well

> mentally. I do not want to hurt her at those times.

>

>

>

> In debate with myself.

>

>

>

>

>

> Twyla

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Nadas are not very good at taking even a little of their own medicine, but

sometimes you have to give them what they have been wishing for " distance " for

your own sake.

There is always the " hope " that the resulting silence will resonate in their

minds with INSIGHT about the consequences of their own behavior. But the face

is that we hope that because, as non-BPD person, that's what we do. We think

about what impact our actions may have had on others (however, inadvertently)

and use that in our attempt to re-examine situations, evaluate whether we might

have brought something on AND attempt to remedie the issue.

The fact is, however that it doesn't quite work that way in the BPD' head.

For me the best place to put my hopes in is in myself and making sure I don't

perpetuate the infernal cycles both with those I love and in my own head.

C.

>

> I am soooooooooo angry at my Nada mother (still NC and no attempt from her

> to call me) at this Christmas dilemma of whether to send Greetings or not. I

> have never missed a year all my life.

>

>

>

> I feel she does not deserve anything after all the treatment over the years

> and of late. She has not even tried to call me directly.

>

>

>

> Why do I have to feel this debate and internal conflict? I know why. I am

> feeling more and more indifferent to mother as the weeks go on. I do not

> like most of the person I have seen she is.

>

> So who benefits if I sent some kind of greeting to her? She will never

> forgive me for the almost 2 month NC that is in place. She will never trust

> me again nor I her. At best I do not know much she lied to me through the

> years.

>

>

>

> If I do send something..a card.it has to be generic and no LOVE, just my

> name. My kids do NOT want their names on this, nor DH..so sad when you

> think RATIONALLY about it...but it appears I am the only rational being in

> this insanity.

>

>

>

> Then what, if I send a card? She is used to very nice gifts from me and

> beautiful MERRY CHRSITMAS MOM cards.

>

>

>

> She always benefitted the most from our relationship.and now still that

> would be again.even if I just sent a card.

>

>

>

> I do not want her to call me over the Holidays and upset me if I send

> something.even if she sounds nice....HOW do I know what is true now?

>

>

>

> What a dilemma..I need to think very long on this. I want to make the

> correct choice FOR ME and MY FAMILY.

>

>

>

> I will be in some trouble either way and she is hoping I will let all the

> past just wash away like previous. That is her ploy until it all starts

> again.

>

>

>

> I do have my moments...actually I was not good on Friday all day, I was in

> tears all over again.. but I was once more tied back into the FOG of what I

> used to believe about her. No matter how far I have healed with this, it

> comes around again.and will for as long as it takes. I cannot erase yeeeears

> in 2 months. But I do not want to waste more time yet..

>

>

>

> I go back into the FOG because I feel sorry for her. It comes like a cloud

> and I feel great compassion all over again for someone who is not well

> mentally. I do not want to hurt her at those times.

>

>

>

> In debate with myself.

>

>

>

>

>

> Twyla

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

P.S. Twyla,

I guess what I'm trying to say is: " don't torture yourself that's the job od

nada's ...and they've all done overtime already anyway " ;)

You've got supportive kids around you who seem to be quite in tune with what you

are going through. Make sure you are able to be PRESENT for them in the kind of

season that can create wonderful and fun family memories for all of you to

cherish for years to come. Hope on that wonderful train, let your hair lose and

enjoy the right with them.

C.

> >

> > I am soooooooooo angry at my Nada mother (still NC and no attempt from her

> > to call me) at this Christmas dilemma of whether to send Greetings or not. I

> > have never missed a year all my life.

> >

> >

> >

> > I feel she does not deserve anything after all the treatment over the years

> > and of late. She has not even tried to call me directly.

> >

> >

> >

> > Why do I have to feel this debate and internal conflict? I know why. I am

> > feeling more and more indifferent to mother as the weeks go on. I do not

> > like most of the person I have seen she is.

> >

> > So who benefits if I sent some kind of greeting to her? She will never

> > forgive me for the almost 2 month NC that is in place. She will never trust

> > me again nor I her. At best I do not know much she lied to me through the

> > years.

> >

> >

> >

> > If I do send something..a card.it has to be generic and no LOVE, just my

> > name. My kids do NOT want their names on this, nor DH..so sad when you

> > think RATIONALLY about it...but it appears I am the only rational being in

> > this insanity.

> >

> >

> >

> > Then what, if I send a card? She is used to very nice gifts from me and

> > beautiful MERRY CHRSITMAS MOM cards.

> >

> >

> >

> > She always benefitted the most from our relationship.and now still that

> > would be again.even if I just sent a card.

> >

> >

> >

> > I do not want her to call me over the Holidays and upset me if I send

> > something.even if she sounds nice....HOW do I know what is true now?

> >

> >

> >

> > What a dilemma..I need to think very long on this. I want to make the

> > correct choice FOR ME and MY FAMILY.

> >

> >

> >

> > I will be in some trouble either way and she is hoping I will let all the

> > past just wash away like previous. That is her ploy until it all starts

> > again.

> >

> >

> >

> > I do have my moments...actually I was not good on Friday all day, I was in

> > tears all over again.. but I was once more tied back into the FOG of what I

> > used to believe about her. No matter how far I have healed with this, it

> > comes around again.and will for as long as it takes. I cannot erase yeeeears

> > in 2 months. But I do not want to waste more time yet..

> >

> >

> >

> > I go back into the FOG because I feel sorry for her. It comes like a cloud

> > and I feel great compassion all over again for someone who is not well

> > mentally. I do not want to hurt her at those times.

> >

> >

> >

> > In debate with myself.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Twyla

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

P.S. Twyla, Ooops, gone to " spelling school " and come back,

>

> I guess what I'm trying to say is: " don't torture yourself; that's the job of

nada's ...and they've all done overtime already, anyway " ;)

>

> You've got supportive kids around you who seem to be quite in tune with what

you are going through. Make sure you are able to be PRESENT for them in the

kind of season that can create wonderful and fun family memories for all of you

to cherish for years to come. Hop on that wonderful train, let your hair lose

and enjoy the ride with them.

(...hopefully that reads a little better, sorry about that folks ...zest took

over.)

C.

>

> > >

> > > I am soooooooooo angry at my Nada mother (still NC and no attempt from her

> > > to call me) at this Christmas dilemma of whether to send Greetings or not.

I

> > > have never missed a year all my life.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I feel she does not deserve anything after all the treatment over the

years

> > > and of late. She has not even tried to call me directly.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Why do I have to feel this debate and internal conflict? I know why. I

am

> > > feeling more and more indifferent to mother as the weeks go on. I do not

> > > like most of the person I have seen she is.

> > >

> > > So who benefits if I sent some kind of greeting to her? She will never

> > > forgive me for the almost 2 month NC that is in place. She will never

trust

> > > me again nor I her. At best I do not know much she lied to me through the

> > > years.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > If I do send something..a card.it has to be generic and no LOVE, just my

> > > name. My kids do NOT want their names on this, nor DH..so sad when you

> > > think RATIONALLY about it...but it appears I am the only rational being in

> > > this insanity.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Then what, if I send a card? She is used to very nice gifts from me and

> > > beautiful MERRY CHRSITMAS MOM cards.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > She always benefitted the most from our relationship.and now still that

> > > would be again.even if I just sent a card.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I do not want her to call me over the Holidays and upset me if I send

> > > something.even if she sounds nice....HOW do I know what is true now?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > What a dilemma..I need to think very long on this. I want to make the

> > > correct choice FOR ME and MY FAMILY.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I will be in some trouble either way and she is hoping I will let all the

> > > past just wash away like previous. That is her ploy until it all starts

> > > again.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I do have my moments...actually I was not good on Friday all day, I was in

> > > tears all over again.. but I was once more tied back into the FOG of what

I

> > > used to believe about her. No matter how far I have healed with this, it

> > > comes around again.and will for as long as it takes. I cannot erase

yeeeears

> > > in 2 months. But I do not want to waste more time yet..

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I go back into the FOG because I feel sorry for her. It comes like a

cloud

> > > and I feel great compassion all over again for someone who is not well

> > > mentally. I do not want to hurt her at those times.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In debate with myself.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Twyla

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

Hi Twyla,

I wanted to tell you what happened the first year I missed Christmas, in case it

helps. I sent a plausible explanation to them why I couldn't make it, I sent

gifts to the entire immediate family, and I sent emails on the day of. They

well knew my address at this time. I received no cards, no gifts, and no

acknowledgement of the gifts from either parent. Narcissist father sent a merry

xmas email in RETURN to mine. After dozens of years of exchanging dozens of

gifts, I suddenly just didn't seem to *exist, because I wasn't there in person

to receive their abuse.

So I would say to keep in mind that whatever you do for Christmas for them, it

is for you and you alone. They will not acknowledge it, unless they see in that

acknowledgement a way to manipulate you that pleases them.

--Charlie

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > I am soooooooooo angry at my Nada mother (still NC and no attempt from

> > her to call me) at this Christmas dilemma of whether to send Greetings or

> not.

> > I

> > have never missed a year all my life.

> >

> > I feel she does not deserve anything after all the treatment over the

> > years and of late. She has not even tried to call me directly.

> >

> > Why do I have to feel this debate and internal conflict? I know why. I

> > am feeling more and more indifferent to mother as the weeks go on. I

> > do not like most of the person I have seen she is.

> >

> > So who benefits if I sent some kind of greeting to her? She will never

> > forgive me for the almost 2 month NC that is in place. She will never

> > trust me again nor I her. At best I do not know much she lied to me

> > through the years.

> >

> > If I do send something..a card.it has to be generic and no LOVE, just

> > my name. My kids do NOT want their names on this, nor DH..so sad when

> > you think RATIONALLY about it...but it appears I am the only rational

> > being in this insanity.

> >

> > Then what, if I send a card? She is used to very nice gifts from me

> > and beautiful MERRY CHRSITMAS MOM cards.

> >

> > She always benefitted the most from our relationship.and now still

> > that would be again.even if I just sent a card.

> >

> > I do not want her to call me over the Holidays and upset me if I send

> > something.even if she sounds nice....HOW do I know what is true now?

> >

> > What a dilemma..I need to think very long on this. I want to make the

> > correct choice FOR ME and MY FAMILY.

> >

> > I will be in some trouble either way and she is hoping I will let all

> > the past just wash away like previous. That is her ploy until it all

> > starts again.

> >

> > I do have my moments...actually I was not good on Friday all day, I

> > was in tears all over again.. but I was once more tied back into the

> > FOG of what I used to believe about her. No matter how far I have

> > healed with this, it comes around again.and will for as long as it

> > takes. I cannot erase yeeeears in 2 months. But I do not want to waste

> > more time yet..

> >

> > I go back into the FOG because I feel sorry for her. It comes like a

> > cloud and I feel great compassion all over again for someone who is

> > not well mentally. I do not want to hurt her at those times.

> >

> > In debate with myself.

> >

> > Twyla

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

I am going thru some of the same issues but have decided to remain NC thru

the holidays and it does come with feelings of guilt but the other choice is

to open the door again and have contact.

The sad thing about the BPD dilemma is that we always seem to be choosing

among the best of two bad options so it is hard to feel " good " about any

choice. The choice for me to be NC is not a happy one but a Survival tool.

Contact with Nada leads to abuse and drain. NC has some guilt involved but

also peace on a daily basis and NOT walking on eggshells.

I think part of being an adult is making the difficult decisions to do what

is best over what may feel good in the moment. If you send a card or gift

in the moment it may alleviate your guilt but it will surely end up

increasing your pain in the long run. Nadas will never think of your best

interest so you have to do that for yourself. If it is in your best

interest to resume contact then okay but if you know it is detrimental to

your well being then remaining NC is the best choice. Doubt will creep in

but like the other poster has said it helps to reflect on why you had to

take the extreme measure of NC to begin with. We also have to remember

that NC is not entered into lightly. We usually have spent years of

pleading with our BPD loved one to stop the abuse. And more years trying to

cope with the abuse thru setting boundaries, low contact, etc. all to no

avail. NC is usually always the last stop on a long road of abuse.

Try not to agonize too much over the holidays they will be over with before

you know it. Consider how much you owe yourself a nice, peaceful holiday.

Nadas won't die without a present for one year. And who knows maybe this NC

will wake her up to treat you differently in the future.

Tracey

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Posted
Posted

Hi Cactusetpapillon...

I want to thank you for your thoughts and your time to write all this.

Everything you say makes sense...so far I am on target.

Twyla

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of cactusetpapillon

Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 01:49 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

Nadas are not very good at taking even a little of their own medicine, but

sometimes you have to give them what they have been wishing for " distance "

for your own sake.

There is always the " hope " that the resulting silence will resonate in their

minds with INSIGHT about the consequences of their own behavior. But the

face is that we hope that because, as non-BPD person, that's what we do. We

think about what impact our actions may have had on others (however,

inadvertently) and use that in our attempt to re-examine situations,

evaluate whether we might have brought something on AND attempt to remedie

the issue.

The fact is, however that it doesn't quite work that way in the BPD' head.

For me the best place to put my hopes in is in myself and making sure I

don't perpetuate the infernal cycles both with those I love and in my own

head.

C.

>

> I am soooooooooo angry at my Nada mother (still NC and no attempt from her

> to call me) at this Christmas dilemma of whether to send Greetings or not.

I

> have never missed a year all my life.

>

>

>

> I feel she does not deserve anything after all the treatment over the

years

> and of late. She has not even tried to call me directly.

>

>

>

> Why do I have to feel this debate and internal conflict? I know why. I am

> feeling more and more indifferent to mother as the weeks go on. I do not

> like most of the person I have seen she is.

>

> So who benefits if I sent some kind of greeting to her? She will never

> forgive me for the almost 2 month NC that is in place. She will never

trust

> me again nor I her. At best I do not know much she lied to me through the

> years.

>

>

>

> If I do send something..a card.it has to be generic and no LOVE, just my

> name. My kids do NOT want their names on this, nor DH..so sad when you

> think RATIONALLY about it...but it appears I am the only rational being in

> this insanity.

>

>

>

> Then what, if I send a card? She is used to very nice gifts from me and

> beautiful MERRY CHRSITMAS MOM cards.

>

>

>

> She always benefitted the most from our relationship.and now still that

> would be again.even if I just sent a card.

>

>

>

> I do not want her to call me over the Holidays and upset me if I send

> something.even if she sounds nice....HOW do I know what is true now?

>

>

>

> What a dilemma..I need to think very long on this. I want to make the

> correct choice FOR ME and MY FAMILY.

>

>

>

> I will be in some trouble either way and she is hoping I will let all the

> past just wash away like previous. That is her ploy until it all starts

> again.

>

>

>

> I do have my moments...actually I was not good on Friday all day, I was in

> tears all over again.. but I was once more tied back into the FOG of what

I

> used to believe about her. No matter how far I have healed with this, it

> comes around again.and will for as long as it takes. I cannot erase

yeeeears

> in 2 months. But I do not want to waste more time yet..

>

>

>

> I go back into the FOG because I feel sorry for her. It comes like a cloud

> and I feel great compassion all over again for someone who is not well

> mentally. I do not want to hurt her at those times.

>

>

>

> In debate with myself.

>

>

>

>

>

> Twyla

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Charlotte,

Wow...still hard to wrap my head around all this...need more time...still

floating in and out of foggy periods.

Thanks for this info.I am so sorry this kind of hurt happened to you.

My Great Aunt just called me...I started to get in touch with her about 1.5

yrs. ago. My mother was not in favor of it..I wanted genealogy information.

I was discouraged to call on the premise that my Aunt was too busy with her

elderly DH. I called anyways. I even went to see her this summer. My

mother was FURIOUS.

Now my Aunt has asked me to visit her in January of 2013. I have my ticket.

She has known my mom for 70 yrs...(this is Great Aunt on my father's side).

She knows all about my abusive father. Apparently many people knew at that

time we were growing up. My father kept us all hidden from other relatives

so I never got to play with cousins etc. My Aunt says we have lots to talk

of when I come. SHE ALSO ADVISED NO CALL to mom...and as I said they have

been friends for years..she said mom's behavior is totally out of line.and

to STOP gift sending, money sending...

I feel so good as this is another member of extended family that is ACTUALLY

supportive. She has told me to call her anytime (she lives about 400 miles

from me).

I believe I can trust her. Her own life has been filled with health

disasters but she always thinks positive. She has one leg as she is an

amputee and her daughter was just in intensive care. Her DH is in care

home. She is also 86 as is mother. She told me tonight to take care of me

first! She feels mom is playing head games with me.

Thanks for everyone's shares here...

Twyla

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of charlottehoneychurch

Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 12:34 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

Hi Twyla,

I wanted to tell you what happened the first year I missed Christmas, in

case it helps. I sent a plausible explanation to them why I couldn't make

it, I sent gifts to the entire immediate family, and I sent emails on the

day of. They well knew my address at this time. I received no cards, no

gifts, and no acknowledgement of the gifts from either parent. Narcissist

father sent a merry xmas email in RETURN to mine. After dozens of years of

exchanging dozens of gifts, I suddenly just didn't seem to *exist, because I

wasn't there in person to receive their abuse.

So I would say to keep in mind that whatever you do for Christmas for them,

it is for you and you alone. They will not acknowledge it, unless they see

in that acknowledgement a way to manipulate you that pleases them.

--Charlie

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > I am soooooooooo angry at my Nada mother (still NC and no attempt from

> > her to call me) at this Christmas dilemma of whether to send Greetings

or

> not.

> > I

> > have never missed a year all my life.

> >

> > I feel she does not deserve anything after all the treatment over the

> > years and of late. She has not even tried to call me directly.

> >

> > Why do I have to feel this debate and internal conflict? I know why. I

> > am feeling more and more indifferent to mother as the weeks go on. I

> > do not like most of the person I have seen she is.

> >

> > So who benefits if I sent some kind of greeting to her? She will never

> > forgive me for the almost 2 month NC that is in place. She will never

> > trust me again nor I her. At best I do not know much she lied to me

> > through the years.

> >

> > If I do send something..a card.it has to be generic and no LOVE, just

> > my name. My kids do NOT want their names on this, nor DH..so sad when

> > you think RATIONALLY about it...but it appears I am the only rational

> > being in this insanity.

> >

> > Then what, if I send a card? She is used to very nice gifts from me

> > and beautiful MERRY CHRSITMAS MOM cards.

> >

> > She always benefitted the most from our relationship.and now still

> > that would be again.even if I just sent a card.

> >

> > I do not want her to call me over the Holidays and upset me if I send

> > something.even if she sounds nice....HOW do I know what is true now?

> >

> > What a dilemma..I need to think very long on this. I want to make the

> > correct choice FOR ME and MY FAMILY.

> >

> > I will be in some trouble either way and she is hoping I will let all

> > the past just wash away like previous. That is her ploy until it all

> > starts again.

> >

> > I do have my moments...actually I was not good on Friday all day, I

> > was in tears all over again.. but I was once more tied back into the

> > FOG of what I used to believe about her. No matter how far I have

> > healed with this, it comes around again.and will for as long as it

> > takes. I cannot erase yeeeears in 2 months. But I do not want to waste

> > more time yet..

> >

> > I go back into the FOG because I feel sorry for her. It comes like a

> > cloud and I feel great compassion all over again for someone who is

> > not well mentally. I do not want to hurt her at those times.

> >

> > In debate with myself.

> >

> > Twyla

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Tracey, thank you for sharing with me.

Twyla

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Tracey

Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 03:33 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

I am going thru some of the same issues but have decided to remain NC thru

the holidays and it does come with feelings of guilt but the other choice is

to open the door again and have contact.

The sad thing about the BPD dilemma is that we always seem to be choosing

among the best of two bad options so it is hard to feel " good " about any

choice. The choice for me to be NC is not a happy one but a Survival tool.

Contact with Nada leads to abuse and drain. NC has some guilt involved but

also peace on a daily basis and NOT walking on eggshells.

I think part of being an adult is making the difficult decisions to do what

is best over what may feel good in the moment. If you send a card or gift

in the moment it may alleviate your guilt but it will surely end up

increasing your pain in the long run. Nadas will never think of your best

interest so you have to do that for yourself. If it is in your best

interest to resume contact then okay but if you know it is detrimental to

your well being then remaining NC is the best choice. Doubt will creep in

but like the other poster has said it helps to reflect on why you had to

take the extreme measure of NC to begin with. We also have to remember

that NC is not entered into lightly. We usually have spent years of

pleading with our BPD loved one to stop the abuse. And more years trying to

cope with the abuse thru setting boundaries, low contact, etc. all to no

avail. NC is usually always the last stop on a long road of abuse.

Try not to agonize too much over the holidays they will be over with before

you know it. Consider how much you owe yourself a nice, peaceful holiday.

Nadas won't die without a present for one year. And who knows maybe this NC

will wake her up to treat you differently in the future.

Tracey

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Posted
Posted

I kept a few of your comments so I can comment.

Looking back now I see my nada did the same thing. She complained constantly

about my biological father, how evil he was, how he did this and that. She left

him when I was an infant so I have no real memories of him. But her poison

effectively kept me from searching for him.

Other family members like her sisters: she told me horror stories about them as

well. I did get to meet one aunt and I thought she was delightful but nada kept

spewing her poison and so I never followed up on a relationship with her either.

They seem to enjoy isolating us from real people, whether it's their neighbors

or our family. She was the only consistent presence in my life. That's sad. Only

recently have I been in touch with a couple of cousins and I like them. But my

aunts are gone now.

Like you, I've been struggling with the whole Christmas card thing. My nada

dumped us a couple weeks ago. She was quite nasty about it, even called the

police the next day to accuse us of stealing some jewelry. At first I felt

relieved about the blow up. I felt free. Then the doubts came in: should I at

least send a card? I don't want to be nasty like her. Like you I laid in bed at

night trying to decide what I would say in the card but couldn't decide. Finally

several things hit me: if I write, it may open up a door again for her to be in

touch. Do I want to be emotionally abused again? I reread the transcript of the

message she left us when she told us to never call or come over ever again. It

was really rude and nasty. Plus she then called the police to report us with her

belief that we would be taken to jail.

The real deciding factor for me was I only wanted to send her a card because I

felt sorry for her being elderly and alone. But then I remembered that a few

months ago her doctor did test her for Alzheimers and she passed with flying

colors. So all her " poor me " behavior is just games. She's not helpless at all.

I was just feeling sorry for a person who wants to play with me like a cat and

mouse.

So I am not going to send a card. The only contact I will ever have with her

again is if an authority calls me and tells me she's been in a car crash or had

a stroke or whatever. Then I'll step in reluctantly, do what I must and back out

again.

I don't know if this helps or not because each family is different. I know you

want to be a nice person but are you willing to open yourself up for more of the

same treatment? Do you deserve that kind of treatment? I very much doubt it. No

one does. Please take care.

> >

> > Thank you for your thoughts.

> >

> > I started writing a draft just in case...but with each line I typed I

> could

> > hear her rebuttal......or lie....or denial......so I stopped. I cannot

> even

> > finish the draft tonight...maybe never.

> >

> > I hear what you say...and I hear it from my family and close

> friends...still

> > not sure what I will ultimately do. This is all still new for me. I am

> just

> > fine then I slip.....

> > Twyla

> >

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Posted
Posted

Hi Irene,

My day off work today and I vow NOT to repeat the melancholy weekend I had

last week due to mother. I slipped down into analyzing too much and got so

confused and depressed. I was ill for days after. We are not even speaking

and the residue can infect me this badly. I also see more every few days as

the fogginess clears out.

I am anxious to see my Great Aunt..she will be able to fill in some

background for me. I am contacting my cousin now and intend to spread out

further to meet the remaining more distant members of my extended family.

Mom was so against this, with more ridiculous reasons why I should not..

I am antsy at present. I have a card here for mom..generic, not like the

typical ones I would buy for her. I need to control my anxiety so I am

pacing each hour of this day and weekend as it will be the time I would have

to send the card to make it there on time. So far, I have no urge to send.

What would I write in it?.....I can only write what I feel is sincere..

So I will continue to let my thoughts in gently, taking care of myself all

weekend as this decision keeps spinning round and round. If I do not send a

card, it will escalate things on mom's side; she will hate me even more. If

I send, there is no guarantee it will make things better.

As many of you have guided me here on this Loop, DO IT FOR ME if I am going

to send.

So far, the doing for me is to take care of ME. Somehow I am sure mom is

doing fine, blaming me for being " such a rotten daughter...so selfish.

always thinking of myself and never considering her feelings and her age. "

....then I get told.. " I am such a wonderful daughter, so thoughtful and kind

with the biggest heart.. " ..and back and forth it goes when it suits her

perceptions.

Oh well, not right now Mom. You do enough for yourself to make sure you are

ALWAYS ok.

Twyla

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of IreneM

Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:16 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

I kept a few of your comments so I can comment.

Looking back now I see my nada did the same thing. She complained constantly

about my biological father, how evil he was, how he did this and that. She

left him when I was an infant so I have no real memories of him. But her

poison effectively kept me from searching for him.

Other family members like her sisters: she told me horror stories about them

as well. I did get to meet one aunt and I thought she was delightful but

nada kept spewing her poison and so I never followed up on a relationship

with her either.

They seem to enjoy isolating us from real people, whether it's their

neighbors or our family. She was the only consistent presence in my life.

That's sad. Only recently have I been in touch with a couple of cousins and

I like them. But my aunts are gone now.

Like you, I've been struggling with the whole Christmas card thing. My nada

dumped us a couple weeks ago. She was quite nasty about it, even called the

police the next day to accuse us of stealing some jewelry. At first I felt

relieved about the blow up. I felt free. Then the doubts came in: should I

at least send a card? I don't want to be nasty like her. Like you I laid in

bed at night trying to decide what I would say in the card but couldn't

decide. Finally several things hit me: if I write, it may open up a door

again for her to be in touch. Do I want to be emotionally abused again? I

reread the transcript of the message she left us when she told us to never

call or come over ever again. It was really rude and nasty. Plus she then

called the police to report us with her belief that we would be taken to

jail.

The real deciding factor for me was I only wanted to send her a card because

I felt sorry for her being elderly and alone. But then I remembered that a

few months ago her doctor did test her for Alzheimers and she passed with

flying colors. So all her " poor me " behavior is just games. She's not

helpless at all. I was just feeling sorry for a person who wants to play

with me like a cat and mouse.

So I am not going to send a card. The only contact I will ever have with her

again is if an authority calls me and tells me she's been in a car crash or

had a stroke or whatever. Then I'll step in reluctantly, do what I must and

back out again.

I don't know if this helps or not because each family is different. I know

you want to be a nice person but are you willing to open yourself up for

more of the same treatment? Do you deserve that kind of treatment? I very

much doubt it. No one does. Please take care.

> >

> > Thank you for your thoughts.

> >

> > I started writing a draft just in case...but with each line I typed I

> could

> > hear her rebuttal......or lie....or denial......so I stopped. I cannot

> even

> > finish the draft tonight...maybe never.

> >

> > I hear what you say...and I hear it from my family and close

> friends...still

> > not sure what I will ultimately do. This is all still new for me. I am

> just

> > fine then I slip.....

> > Twyla

> >

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Posted
Posted

Well, I did go ahead and mail a Christmas Card - just a generic one, signed

without " love " , and included the kids school pictures.

I am in a different situation in that my kids are younger, and my parents

did give them xmas gifts, even though she wasn't talking to me. My parents

go south for the winter, but they live next door to us April-November in

jointly owned property..so going completely NC isn't an option unless we

break financial ties with them.

So I sent the card and photos, not knowing what to expect. I got an email

the other day thanking me for the photos and then a bunch of random

conversation about shows they are watching, the weather, and a " take care "

at the end.

Pretending like NOTHING had happened, no word about the fight, or how she

told me I was selfish and she hated me. No acknowledgement that she chose to

give me the silent treatment for close to 6 months.

So I sent a polite reply with some more conversation about their TV shows.

Then yesterday I get 2 emails with rambling about more stuff she's sending

in the mail to the kids - movies, junk food etc etc..

She is a compulsive shopper and now here we go again.I sent that card

because I felt like I should and what it became was some open invitation for

it to start all over again.

For her, going back to " normal " is going back to her getting her way.

Instead of saying, no don't send the kids anything, I have said

nothing..'cause that will start her tantrums all over again.

Yes, I'm walking on eggshells all over again.

And yes, there is the part of me that still desires contact with her.

Uuuggghhhh, I was feeling stronger, a better sense of " self " . And then I

sent that stupid Christmas card.

Obviously I still need a LOT of work.

So really think twice about sending Christmas greetings.

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Twyla

Sent: December-14-12 1:44 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: RE: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

Hi Irene,

My day off work today and I vow NOT to repeat the melancholy weekend I had

last week due to mother. I slipped down into analyzing too much and got so

confused and depressed. I was ill for days after. We are not even speaking

and the residue can infect me this badly. I also see more every few days as

the fogginess clears out.

I am anxious to see my Great Aunt..she will be able to fill in some

background for me. I am contacting my cousin now and intend to spread out

further to meet the remaining more distant members of my extended family.

Mom was so against this, with more ridiculous reasons why I should not..

I am antsy at present. I have a card here for mom..generic, not like the

typical ones I would buy for her. I need to control my anxiety so I am

pacing each hour of this day and weekend as it will be the time I would have

to send the card to make it there on time. So far, I have no urge to send.

What would I write in it?.....I can only write what I feel is sincere..

So I will continue to let my thoughts in gently, taking care of myself all

weekend as this decision keeps spinning round and round. If I do not send a

card, it will escalate things on mom's side; she will hate me even more. If

I send, there is no guarantee it will make things better.

As many of you have guided me here on this Loop, DO IT FOR ME if I am going

to send.

So far, the doing for me is to take care of ME. Somehow I am sure mom is

doing fine, blaming me for being " such a rotten daughter...so selfish.

always thinking of myself and never considering her feelings and her age. "

....then I get told.. " I am such a wonderful daughter, so thoughtful and kind

with the biggest heart.. " ..and back and forth it goes when it suits her

perceptions.

Oh well, not right now Mom. You do enough for yourself to make sure you are

ALWAYS ok.

Twyla

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1

] On Behalf Of IreneM

Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:16 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

I kept a few of your comments so I can comment.

Looking back now I see my nada did the same thing. She complained constantly

about my biological father, how evil he was, how he did this and that. She

left him when I was an infant so I have no real memories of him. But her

poison effectively kept me from searching for him.

Other family members like her sisters: she told me horror stories about them

as well. I did get to meet one aunt and I thought she was delightful but

nada kept spewing her poison and so I never followed up on a relationship

with her either.

They seem to enjoy isolating us from real people, whether it's their

neighbors or our family. She was the only consistent presence in my life.

That's sad. Only recently have I been in touch with a couple of cousins and

I like them. But my aunts are gone now.

Like you, I've been struggling with the whole Christmas card thing. My nada

dumped us a couple weeks ago. She was quite nasty about it, even called the

police the next day to accuse us of stealing some jewelry. At first I felt

relieved about the blow up. I felt free. Then the doubts came in: should I

at least send a card? I don't want to be nasty like her. Like you I laid in

bed at night trying to decide what I would say in the card but couldn't

decide. Finally several things hit me: if I write, it may open up a door

again for her to be in touch. Do I want to be emotionally abused again? I

reread the transcript of the message she left us when she told us to never

call or come over ever again. It was really rude and nasty. Plus she then

called the police to report us with her belief that we would be taken to

jail.

The real deciding factor for me was I only wanted to send her a card because

I felt sorry for her being elderly and alone. But then I remembered that a

few months ago her doctor did test her for Alzheimers and she passed with

flying colors. So all her " poor me " behavior is just games. She's not

helpless at all. I was just feeling sorry for a person who wants to play

with me like a cat and mouse.

So I am not going to send a card. The only contact I will ever have with her

again is if an authority calls me and tells me she's been in a car crash or

had a stroke or whatever. Then I'll step in reluctantly, do what I must and

back out again.

I don't know if this helps or not because each family is different. I know

you want to be a nice person but are you willing to open yourself up for

more of the same treatment? Do you deserve that kind of treatment? I very

much doubt it. No one does. Please take care.

> >

> > Thank you for your thoughts.

> >

> > I started writing a draft just in case...but with each line I typed I

> could

> > hear her rebuttal......or lie....or denial......so I stopped. I cannot

> even

> > finish the draft tonight...maybe never.

> >

> > I hear what you say...and I hear it from my family and close

> friends...still

> > not sure what I will ultimately do. This is all still new for me. I am

> just

> > fine then I slip.....

> > Twyla

> >

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Posted
Posted

My Uncle who left me in his Will (Nada brother) would not speak to mom for

the last 3 years of his life. She tried and tried chasing him. Phone calls

and notes to him. He often left the phone off the hook..when he came out to

her/his home city (he came to check on the grave site of where his wife is

buried) he started to stay at my cousins and told her not to tell mom he was

in town.

My mother (and father when he was living) I believe were after Uncle's

money. He felt it and told my cousin over and over. She chases whom she

thinks she can gain from...(since my NC, not a call to me, she expects me to

call of course even though she hangs up on me and did the last time we

spoke).

Mom flatly denied all this..but when he was dying last year and my FOO came

to know I was named joint Power of Attorney with cousin, Nada hit the

roof..and was calling me every day to see about his condition. It is my

belief now she was so scared I might be the beneficiary (joint) with my

cousin. She was correct in the end.

As he was dying, mom was so mad at him as to why he had all this money and

never did anything with it...she would repeat this over and over..like it

was hers or something. She told me " when he finally dies I hope they

cremate him and flush his ashes down the toilet " . Later I reminded her of

this comment (as I did other things) and she flatly denied ever saying the

last part regarding the flushing. This is what I dealt with. Lies and

distortions and expectations...and comfortable distancing for her. She has

only seen my kids, her grandchildren about 15 times, (the oldest is 26) most

of those where because we drove to see them. She is a 2 hr. flight

away..and has gone to her best and only friend's granddaughter wedding but

never wants to come here. Never came to my son's college grad that she

promised. Never invites me there...so I go very seldom (every 2-3 yrs) and

stay only 2-3 days. Last time were there she was mad again at another lie I

exposed her on and she started to dial the police telling me I was an

abuser...she almost got through to them..Nada hates when the spotlight of

truth is shone on her.

What a nutjob.

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of IreneM

Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:16 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

I kept a few of your comments so I can comment.

Looking back now I see my nada did the same thing. She complained constantly

about my biological father, how evil he was, how he did this and that. She

left him when I was an infant so I have no real memories of him. But her

poison effectively kept me from searching for him.

Other family members like her sisters: she told me horror stories about them

as well. I did get to meet one aunt and I thought she was delightful but

nada kept spewing her poison and so I never followed up on a relationship

with her either.

They seem to enjoy isolating us from real people, whether it's their

neighbors or our family. She was the only consistent presence in my life.

That's sad. Only recently have I been in touch with a couple of cousins and

I like them. But my aunts are gone now.

Like you, I've been struggling with the whole Christmas card thing. My nada

dumped us a couple weeks ago. She was quite nasty about it, even called the

police the next day to accuse us of stealing some jewelry. At first I felt

relieved about the blow up. I felt free. Then the doubts came in: should I

at least send a card? I don't want to be nasty like her. Like you I laid in

bed at night trying to decide what I would say in the card but couldn't

decide. Finally several things hit me: if I write, it may open up a door

again for her to be in touch. Do I want to be emotionally abused again? I

reread the transcript of the message she left us when she told us to never

call or come over ever again. It was really rude and nasty. Plus she then

called the police to report us with her belief that we would be taken to

jail.

The real deciding factor for me was I only wanted to send her a card because

I felt sorry for her being elderly and alone. But then I remembered that a

few months ago her doctor did test her for Alzheimers and she passed with

flying colors. So all her " poor me " behavior is just games. She's not

helpless at all. I was just feeling sorry for a person who wants to play

with me like a cat and mouse.

So I am not going to send a card. The only contact I will ever have with her

again is if an authority calls me and tells me she's been in a car crash or

had a stroke or whatever. Then I'll step in reluctantly, do what I must and

back out again.

I don't know if this helps or not because each family is different. I know

you want to be a nice person but are you willing to open yourself up for

more of the same treatment? Do you deserve that kind of treatment? I very

much doubt it. No one does. Please take care.

> >

> > Thank you for your thoughts.

> >

> > I started writing a draft just in case...but with each line I typed I

> could

> > hear her rebuttal......or lie....or denial......so I stopped. I cannot

> even

> > finish the draft tonight...maybe never.

> >

> > I hear what you say...and I hear it from my family and close

> friends...still

> > not sure what I will ultimately do. This is all still new for me. I am

> just

> > fine then I slip.....

> > Twyla

> >

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Posted
Posted

Thanks ...I am really trying to watch my Nada thoughts.period. She has

taken so much of my time and esp. lately....she is not worth it but this

processing in my head must happen for me to find my way. I need to focus on

the good I can find.

I have been praying to my higher power to make this decision end ASAP one

way or another.

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Gagne

Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 12:05 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: RE: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

Well, I did go ahead and mail a Christmas Card - just a generic one, signed

without " love " , and included the kids school pictures.

I am in a different situation in that my kids are younger, and my parents

did give them xmas gifts, even though she wasn't talking to me. My parents

go south for the winter, but they live next door to us April-November in

jointly owned property..so going completely NC isn't an option unless we

break financial ties with them.

So I sent the card and photos, not knowing what to expect. I got an email

the other day thanking me for the photos and then a bunch of random

conversation about shows they are watching, the weather, and a " take care "

at the end.

Pretending like NOTHING had happened, no word about the fight, or how she

told me I was selfish and she hated me. No acknowledgement that she chose to

give me the silent treatment for close to 6 months.

So I sent a polite reply with some more conversation about their TV shows.

Then yesterday I get 2 emails with rambling about more stuff she's sending

in the mail to the kids - movies, junk food etc etc..

She is a compulsive shopper and now here we go again.I sent that card

because I felt like I should and what it became was some open invitation for

it to start all over again.

For her, going back to " normal " is going back to her getting her way.

Instead of saying, no don't send the kids anything, I have said

nothing..'cause that will start her tantrums all over again.

Yes, I'm walking on eggshells all over again.

And yes, there is the part of me that still desires contact with her.

Uuuggghhhh, I was feeling stronger, a better sense of " self " . And then I

sent that stupid Christmas card.

Obviously I still need a LOT of work.

So really think twice about sending Christmas greetings.

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1

] On Behalf Of Twyla

Sent: December-14-12 1:44 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: RE: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

Hi Irene,

My day off work today and I vow NOT to repeat the melancholy weekend I had

last week due to mother. I slipped down into analyzing too much and got so

confused and depressed. I was ill for days after. We are not even speaking

and the residue can infect me this badly. I also see more every few days as

the fogginess clears out.

I am anxious to see my Great Aunt..she will be able to fill in some

background for me. I am contacting my cousin now and intend to spread out

further to meet the remaining more distant members of my extended family.

Mom was so against this, with more ridiculous reasons why I should not..

I am antsy at present. I have a card here for mom..generic, not like the

typical ones I would buy for her. I need to control my anxiety so I am

pacing each hour of this day and weekend as it will be the time I would have

to send the card to make it there on time. So far, I have no urge to send.

What would I write in it?.....I can only write what I feel is sincere..

So I will continue to let my thoughts in gently, taking care of myself all

weekend as this decision keeps spinning round and round. If I do not send a

card, it will escalate things on mom's side; she will hate me even more. If

I send, there is no guarantee it will make things better.

As many of you have guided me here on this Loop, DO IT FOR ME if I am going

to send.

So far, the doing for me is to take care of ME. Somehow I am sure mom is

doing fine, blaming me for being " such a rotten daughter...so selfish.

always thinking of myself and never considering her feelings and her age. "

....then I get told.. " I am such a wonderful daughter, so thoughtful and kind

with the biggest heart.. " ..and back and forth it goes when it suits her

perceptions.

Oh well, not right now Mom. You do enough for yourself to make sure you are

ALWAYS ok.

Twyla

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1

] On Behalf Of IreneM

Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:16 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

I kept a few of your comments so I can comment.

Looking back now I see my nada did the same thing. She complained constantly

about my biological father, how evil he was, how he did this and that. She

left him when I was an infant so I have no real memories of him. But her

poison effectively kept me from searching for him.

Other family members like her sisters: she told me horror stories about them

as well. I did get to meet one aunt and I thought she was delightful but

nada kept spewing her poison and so I never followed up on a relationship

with her either.

They seem to enjoy isolating us from real people, whether it's their

neighbors or our family. She was the only consistent presence in my life.

That's sad. Only recently have I been in touch with a couple of cousins and

I like them. But my aunts are gone now.

Like you, I've been struggling with the whole Christmas card thing. My nada

dumped us a couple weeks ago. She was quite nasty about it, even called the

police the next day to accuse us of stealing some jewelry. At first I felt

relieved about the blow up. I felt free. Then the doubts came in: should I

at least send a card? I don't want to be nasty like her. Like you I laid in

bed at night trying to decide what I would say in the card but couldn't

decide. Finally several things hit me: if I write, it may open up a door

again for her to be in touch. Do I want to be emotionally abused again? I

reread the transcript of the message she left us when she told us to never

call or come over ever again. It was really rude and nasty. Plus she then

called the police to report us with her belief that we would be taken to

jail.

The real deciding factor for me was I only wanted to send her a card because

I felt sorry for her being elderly and alone. But then I remembered that a

few months ago her doctor did test her for Alzheimers and she passed with

flying colors. So all her " poor me " behavior is just games. She's not

helpless at all. I was just feeling sorry for a person who wants to play

with me like a cat and mouse.

So I am not going to send a card. The only contact I will ever have with her

again is if an authority calls me and tells me she's been in a car crash or

had a stroke or whatever. Then I'll step in reluctantly, do what I must and

back out again.

I don't know if this helps or not because each family is different. I know

you want to be a nice person but are you willing to open yourself up for

more of the same treatment? Do you deserve that kind of treatment? I very

much doubt it. No one does. Please take care.

> >

> > Thank you for your thoughts.

> >

> > I started writing a draft just in case...but with each line I typed I

> could

> > hear her rebuttal......or lie....or denial......so I stopped. I cannot

> even

> > finish the draft tonight...maybe never.

> >

> > I hear what you say...and I hear it from my family and close

> friends...still

> > not sure what I will ultimately do. This is all still new for me. I am

> just

> > fine then I slip.....

> > Twyla

> >

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Posted
Posted

I'm sorry you're having such a terrible time. Even when we are not in contact

with them, they seem to reach out and grab us emotionally anyway. And they don't

even care one bit that we're struggling with all this FOG. They would probably

delight in knowing they are still in control even when not present. My nada

brags about how she could control me by using guilt.

Hang onto that card, try not to give in to the fear that she'll hate you even

more and bad mouth you to everyone. Then when Christmas is over and the card

still sits there, perhaps you'll have a little bit of happiness knowing you got

to make the decision on your own. You didn't send a card out of fear. You just

didn't send a card because you had nothing to say to her that would warm her

stone cold heart. We usually send cards or notes to people to encourage them or

share joy and love. She wants none of that.

Have fun with your aunt and cousin.

I love what you said at the end: Oh well, not right now Mom. You do enough

for yourself to make sure you are ALWAYS ok.

>

I had to smile when I read that. A good reminder to us all that BPD's are always

looking out for themselves.

>

> Hi Irene,

>

>

>

> My day off work today and I vow NOT to repeat the melancholy weekend I had

> last week due to mother. I slipped down into analyzing too much and got so

> confused and depressed. I was ill for days after. We are not even speaking

> and the residue can infect me this badly. I also see more every few days as

> the fogginess clears out.

>

>

>

> I am anxious to see my Great Aunt..she will be able to fill in some

> background for me. I am contacting my cousin now and intend to spread out

> further to meet the remaining more distant members of my extended family.

> Mom was so against this, with more ridiculous reasons why I should not..

>

>

>

> I am antsy at present. I have a card here for mom..generic, not like the

> typical ones I would buy for her. I need to control my anxiety so I am

> pacing each hour of this day and weekend as it will be the time I would have

> to send the card to make it there on time. So far, I have no urge to send.

> What would I write in it?.....I can only write what I feel is sincere..

>

>

>

> So I will continue to let my thoughts in gently, taking care of myself all

> weekend as this decision keeps spinning round and round. If I do not send a

> card, it will escalate things on mom's side; she will hate me even more. If

> I send, there is no guarantee it will make things better.

>

>

>

> As many of you have guided me here on this Loop, DO IT FOR ME if I am going

> to send.

>

>

>

> So far, the doing for me is to take care of ME. Somehow I am sure mom is

> doing fine, blaming me for being " such a rotten daughter...so selfish.

> always thinking of myself and never considering her feelings and her age. "

> ...then I get told.. " I am such a wonderful daughter, so thoughtful and kind

> with the biggest heart.. " ..and back and forth it goes when it suits her

> perceptions.

>

>

>

> Oh well, not right now Mom. You do enough for yourself to make sure you are

> ALWAYS ok.

>

>

>

> Twyla

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Posted
Posted

Irene...(hugs)

Thanks

No card sent at this point.

If it does not feel good then I would not be honoring myself. It does not

feel good.

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of ireneo55

Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 02:28 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

I'm sorry you're having such a terrible time. Even when we are not in

contact with them, they seem to reach out and grab us emotionally anyway.

And they don't even care one bit that we're struggling with all this FOG.

They would probably delight in knowing they are still in control even when

not present. My nada brags about how she could control me by using guilt.

Hang onto that card, try not to give in to the fear that she'll hate you

even more and bad mouth you to everyone. Then when Christmas is over and the

card still sits there, perhaps you'll have a little bit of happiness knowing

you got to make the decision on your own. You didn't send a card out of

fear. You just didn't send a card because you had nothing to say to her that

would warm her stone cold heart. We usually send cards or notes to people to

encourage them or share joy and love. She wants none of that.

Have fun with your aunt and cousin.

I love what you said at the end: Oh well, not right now Mom. You do enough

for yourself to make sure you are ALWAYS ok.

>

I had to smile when I read that. A good reminder to us all that BPD's are

always looking out for themselves.

>

> Hi Irene,

>

>

>

> My day off work today and I vow NOT to repeat the melancholy weekend I had

> last week due to mother. I slipped down into analyzing too much and got so

> confused and depressed. I was ill for days after. We are not even speaking

> and the residue can infect me this badly. I also see more every few days

as

> the fogginess clears out.

>

>

>

> I am anxious to see my Great Aunt..she will be able to fill in some

> background for me. I am contacting my cousin now and intend to spread out

> further to meet the remaining more distant members of my extended family.

> Mom was so against this, with more ridiculous reasons why I should not..

>

>

>

> I am antsy at present. I have a card here for mom..generic, not like the

> typical ones I would buy for her. I need to control my anxiety so I am

> pacing each hour of this day and weekend as it will be the time I would

have

> to send the card to make it there on time. So far, I have no urge to send.

> What would I write in it?.....I can only write what I feel is sincere..

>

>

>

> So I will continue to let my thoughts in gently, taking care of myself all

> weekend as this decision keeps spinning round and round. If I do not send

a

> card, it will escalate things on mom's side; she will hate me even more.

If

> I send, there is no guarantee it will make things better.

>

>

>

> As many of you have guided me here on this Loop, DO IT FOR ME if I am

going

> to send.

>

>

>

> So far, the doing for me is to take care of ME. Somehow I am sure mom is

> doing fine, blaming me for being " such a rotten daughter...so selfish.

> always thinking of myself and never considering her feelings and her age. "

> ...then I get told.. " I am such a wonderful daughter, so thoughtful and

kind

> with the biggest heart.. " ..and back and forth it goes when it suits her

> perceptions.

>

>

>

> Oh well, not right now Mom. You do enough for yourself to make sure you

are

> ALWAYS ok.

>

>

>

> Twyla

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Posted
Posted

Irene,

>>Hang onto that card, try not to give in to the fear that she'll hate you

even more and bad mouth you to everyone. Then when Christmas is over and the

card still sits there, perhaps you'll have a little bit of happiness knowing

you got to make the decision on your own. You didn't send a card out of

fear. You just didn't send a card because you had nothing to say to her that

would warm her stone cold heart.>>

I use some of your share above because it is so true. I WILL be in even

more " trouble " than ever, whatever that could possibly mean now. This

milestone of Christmas with NC will very definitely cause permanent change

for better or worse..but at least there will finally be SOME change. The old

pattern cannot continue because I am not playing the same game. I sincerely

hope I am not playing ANY game.

I think mother IS playing a game of attrition with me but the stakes are

very high, but perhaps she will learn how to better mother HERSELF than

always having access to me. Perhaps she will find more comfort in feeling

she has won something and feel better about herself somehow. Perhaps she

will be better able to take care of herself on her own without me. I do not

know what she is feeling for sure, I can only assume. I DO know most of what

I am feeling and I do not want to continue in the old illusion.

In any case, I feel steady taking ONLY one day at a time right now.

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of ireneo55

Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 02:28 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

I'm sorry you're having such a terrible time. Even when we are not in

contact with them, they seem to reach out and grab us emotionally anyway.

And they don't even care one bit that we're struggling with all this FOG.

They would probably delight in knowing they are still in control even when

not present. My nada brags about how she could control me by using guilt.

Hang onto that card, try not to give in to the fear that she'll hate you

even more and bad mouth you to everyone. Then when Christmas is over and the

card still sits there, perhaps you'll have a little bit of happiness knowing

you got to make the decision on your own. You didn't send a card out of

fear. You just didn't send a card because you had nothing to say to her that

would warm her stone cold heart. We usually send cards or notes to people to

encourage them or share joy and love. She wants none of that.

Have fun with your aunt and cousin.

I love what you said at the end: Oh well, not right now Mom. You do enough

for yourself to make sure you are ALWAYS ok.

>

I had to smile when I read that. A good reminder to us all that BPD's are

always looking out for themselves.

>

> Hi Irene,

>

>

>

> My day off work today and I vow NOT to repeat the melancholy weekend I had

> last week due to mother. I slipped down into analyzing too much and got so

> confused and depressed. I was ill for days after. We are not even speaking

> and the residue can infect me this badly. I also see more every few days

as

> the fogginess clears out.

>

>

>

> I am anxious to see my Great Aunt..she will be able to fill in some

> background for me. I am contacting my cousin now and intend to spread out

> further to meet the remaining more distant members of my extended family.

> Mom was so against this, with more ridiculous reasons why I should not..

>

>

>

> I am antsy at present. I have a card here for mom..generic, not like the

> typical ones I would buy for her. I need to control my anxiety so I am

> pacing each hour of this day and weekend as it will be the time I would

have

> to send the card to make it there on time. So far, I have no urge to send.

> What would I write in it?.....I can only write what I feel is sincere..

>

>

>

> So I will continue to let my thoughts in gently, taking care of myself all

> weekend as this decision keeps spinning round and round. If I do not send

a

> card, it will escalate things on mom's side; she will hate me even more.

If

> I send, there is no guarantee it will make things better.

>

>

>

> As many of you have guided me here on this Loop, DO IT FOR ME if I am

going

> to send.

>

>

>

> So far, the doing for me is to take care of ME. Somehow I am sure mom is

> doing fine, blaming me for being " such a rotten daughter...so selfish.

> always thinking of myself and never considering her feelings and her age. "

> ...then I get told.. " I am such a wonderful daughter, so thoughtful and

kind

> with the biggest heart.. " ..and back and forth it goes when it suits her

> perceptions.

>

>

>

> Oh well, not right now Mom. You do enough for yourself to make sure you

are

> ALWAYS ok.

>

>

>

> Twyla

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Posted
Posted

Twyla, (and apologies to Irene if this feels like your chain is being hijacked,

I understand where you are coming from on the Xmas card and hope this post can

help you too)

I know what you mean, I still think in terms of " being in trouble " and I know

nada does too with her Nada, and my Nada is in her 60s! We are so brainwashed

into believing that if we were just " better " , more obedient, worked harder to

meet her needs, etc. that we'd finally be worthy and Nada would love us like a

normal mother. Healing can't even begin until we see that we are slaves to this

mentality and that Nada is a slave to her illness. No matter what we do we will

never get the validation we are looking for from Nada. She's just not capable of

it. So in trouble, not in trouble, it doesn't matter- no matter how hard we try

to be " good " it will never be good enough for Nada. We have to find our

validation elsewhere, an then make a choice about whether or not we want Nada in

our lives at all with full awareness that she has no ability to meet our needs,

regardless of whether or not she perceives us to be " in trouble " .

Nadas don't " learn " . They're not capable of it, with only very rare exception.

As long as you pin your hopes if fulfillment to Nada getting what you are trying

to do and learning better, you will never be safe or happy. Nadas live in

service to their illnesses: you didn't cause that and there is nothing you can

do to save her. You can only protect yourself by believing you sre worthy of

protcetion no matter what Nada or snyone else might think, and then carrying

through and protecting yourself with the objective of staying safe (not of

somehow inspiring Nada to change, because she never will, she does not

understand and does not want to understand, she does not want to overcome her

limitations or stop hurting you, she cannot process any information that might

be ego dystonic to her self conception as a perfect being. There is nothing you

can do about that- you didn't cause it and you can't help her. It is sad but all

you can do is protect you and the next generation.)

I'm so sorry you are experiencing this. I could not be more empathetic. It is

really sad that we suffer with Nadas, but truly healing to have the opportunity

to share here.

Regards,

Mdg2101

> >

> > Hi Irene,

> >

> >

> >

> > My day off work today and I vow NOT to repeat the melancholy weekend I had

> > last week due to mother. I slipped down into analyzing too much and got so

> > confused and depressed. I was ill for days after. We are not even speaking

> > and the residue can infect me this badly. I also see more every few days

> as

> > the fogginess clears out.

> >

> >

> >

> > I am anxious to see my Great Aunt..she will be able to fill in some

> > background for me. I am contacting my cousin now and intend to spread out

> > further to meet the remaining more distant members of my extended family.

> > Mom was so against this, with more ridiculous reasons why I should not..

> >

> >

> >

> > I am antsy at present. I have a card here for mom..generic, not like the

> > typical ones I would buy for her. I need to control my anxiety so I am

> > pacing each hour of this day and weekend as it will be the time I would

> have

> > to send the card to make it there on time. So far, I have no urge to send.

> > What would I write in it?.....I can only write what I feel is sincere..

> >

> >

> >

> > So I will continue to let my thoughts in gently, taking care of myself all

> > weekend as this decision keeps spinning round and round. If I do not send

> a

> > card, it will escalate things on mom's side; she will hate me even more.

> If

> > I send, there is no guarantee it will make things better.

> >

> >

> >

> > As many of you have guided me here on this Loop, DO IT FOR ME if I am

> going

> > to send.

> >

> >

> >

> > So far, the doing for me is to take care of ME. Somehow I am sure mom is

> > doing fine, blaming me for being " such a rotten daughter...so selfish.

> > always thinking of myself and never considering her feelings and her age. "

> > ...then I get told.. " I am such a wonderful daughter, so thoughtful and

> kind

> > with the biggest heart.. " ..and back and forth it goes when it suits her

> > perceptions.

> >

> >

> >

> > Oh well, not right now Mom. You do enough for yourself to make sure you

> are

> > ALWAYS ok.

> >

> >

> >

> > Twyla

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

This is great !!!!!!

> Twyla, (and apologies to Irene if this feels like your chain is being

hijacked, I understand where you are coming from on the Xmas card and hope this

post can help you too)

>

> I know what you mean, I still think in terms of " being in trouble " and I know

nada does too with her Nada, and my Nada is in her 60s! We are so brainwashed

into believing that if we were just " better " , more obedient, worked harder to

meet her needs, etc. that we'd finally be worthy and Nada would love us like a

normal mother. Healing can't even begin until we see that we are slaves to this

mentality and that Nada is a slave to her illness. No matter what we do we will

never get the validation we are looking for from Nada. She's just not capable of

it. So in trouble, not in trouble, it doesn't matter- no matter how hard we try

to be " good " it will never be good enough for Nada. We have to find our

validation elsewhere, an then make a choice about whether or not we want Nada in

our lives at all with full awareness that she has no ability to meet our needs,

regardless of whether or not she perceives us to be " in trouble " .

>

> Nadas don't " learn " . They're not capable of it, with only very rare exception.

As long as you pin your hopes if fulfillment to Nada getting what you are trying

to do and learning better, you will never be safe or happy. Nadas live in

service to their illnesses: you didn't cause that and there is nothing you can

do to save her. You can only protect yourself by believing you sre worthy of

protcetion no matter what Nada or snyone else might think, and then carrying

through and protecting yourself with the objective of staying safe (not of

somehow inspiring Nada to change, because she never will, she does not

understand and does not want to understand, she does not want to overcome her

limitations or stop hurting you, she cannot process any information that might

be ego dystonic to her self conception as a perfect being. There is nothing you

can do about that- you didn't cause it and you can't help her. It is sad but all

you can do is protect you and the next generation.)

>

> I'm so sorry you are experiencing this. I could not be more empathetic. It is

really sad that we suffer with Nadas, but truly healing to have the opportunity

to share here.

>

> Regards,

> Mdg2101

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi Irene,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > My day off work today and I vow NOT to repeat the melancholy weekend I had

> > > last week due to mother. I slipped down into analyzing too much and got so

> > > confused and depressed. I was ill for days after. We are not even speaking

> > > and the residue can infect me this badly. I also see more every few days

> > as

> > > the fogginess clears out.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I am anxious to see my Great Aunt..she will be able to fill in some

> > > background for me. I am contacting my cousin now and intend to spread out

> > > further to meet the remaining more distant members of my extended family.

> > > Mom was so against this, with more ridiculous reasons why I should not..

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I am antsy at present. I have a card here for mom..generic, not like the

> > > typical ones I would buy for her. I need to control my anxiety so I am

> > > pacing each hour of this day and weekend as it will be the time I would

> > have

> > > to send the card to make it there on time. So far, I have no urge to send.

> > > What would I write in it?.....I can only write what I feel is sincere..

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > So I will continue to let my thoughts in gently, taking care of myself all

> > > weekend as this decision keeps spinning round and round. If I do not send

> > a

> > > card, it will escalate things on mom's side; she will hate me even more.

> > If

> > > I send, there is no guarantee it will make things better.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > As many of you have guided me here on this Loop, DO IT FOR ME if I am

> > going

> > > to send.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > So far, the doing for me is to take care of ME. Somehow I am sure mom is

> > > doing fine, blaming me for being " such a rotten daughter...so selfish.

> > > always thinking of myself and never considering her feelings and her age. "

> > > ...then I get told.. " I am such a wonderful daughter, so thoughtful and

> > kind

> > > with the biggest heart.. " ..and back and forth it goes when it suits her

> > > perceptions.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Oh well, not right now Mom. You do enough for yourself to make sure you

> > are

> > > ALWAYS ok.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Twyla

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

mdg,

Again thank you for your thoughts.

I agree.

I must practice much more to find more peace.

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of mdg2101

Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 09:19 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: To Send Xmas Greeting to Nada or NOT?

Twyla, (and apologies to Irene if this feels like your chain is being

hijacked, I understand where you are coming from on the Xmas card and hope

this post can help you too)

I know what you mean, I still think in terms of " being in trouble " and I

know nada does too with her Nada, and my Nada is in her 60s! We are so

brainwashed into believing that if we were just " better " , more obedient,

worked harder to meet her needs, etc. that we'd finally be worthy and Nada

would love us like a normal mother. Healing can't even begin until we see

that we are slaves to this mentality and that Nada is a slave to her

illness. No matter what we do we will never get the validation we are

looking for from Nada. She's just not capable of it. So in trouble, not in

trouble, it doesn't matter- no matter how hard we try to be " good " it will

never be good enough for Nada. We have to find our validation elsewhere, an

then make a choice about whether or not we want Nada in our lives at all

with full awareness that she has no ability to meet our needs, regardless of

whether or not she perceives us to be " in trouble " .

Nadas don't " learn " . They're not capable of it, with only very rare

exception. As long as you pin your hopes if fulfillment to Nada getting what

you are trying to do and learning better, you will never be safe or happy.

Nadas live in service to their illnesses: you didn't cause that and there is

nothing you can do to save her. You can only protect yourself by believing

you sre worthy of protcetion no matter what Nada or snyone else might think,

and then carrying through and protecting yourself with the objective of

staying safe (not of somehow inspiring Nada to change, because she never

will, she does not understand and does not want to understand, she does not

want to overcome her limitations or stop hurting you, she cannot process any

information that might be ego dystonic to her self conception as a perfect

being. There is nothing you can do about that- you didn't cause it and you

can't help her. It is sad but all you can do is protect you and the next

generation.)

I'm so sorry you are experiencing this. I could not be more empathetic. It

is really sad that we suffer with Nadas, but truly healing to have the

opportunity to share here.

Regards,

Mdg2101

> >

> > Hi Irene,

> >

> >

> >

> > My day off work today and I vow NOT to repeat the melancholy weekend I

had

> > last week due to mother. I slipped down into analyzing too much and got

so

> > confused and depressed. I was ill for days after. We are not even

speaking

> > and the residue can infect me this badly. I also see more every few days

> as

> > the fogginess clears out.

> >

> >

> >

> > I am anxious to see my Great Aunt..she will be able to fill in some

> > background for me. I am contacting my cousin now and intend to spread

out

> > further to meet the remaining more distant members of my extended

family.

> > Mom was so against this, with more ridiculous reasons why I should not..

> >

> >

> >

> > I am antsy at present. I have a card here for mom..generic, not like the

> > typical ones I would buy for her. I need to control my anxiety so I am

> > pacing each hour of this day and weekend as it will be the time I would

> have

> > to send the card to make it there on time. So far, I have no urge to

send.

> > What would I write in it?.....I can only write what I feel is sincere..

> >

> >

> >

> > So I will continue to let my thoughts in gently, taking care of myself

all

> > weekend as this decision keeps spinning round and round. If I do not

send

> a

> > card, it will escalate things on mom's side; she will hate me even more.

> If

> > I send, there is no guarantee it will make things better.

> >

> >

> >

> > As many of you have guided me here on this Loop, DO IT FOR ME if I am

> going

> > to send.

> >

> >

> >

> > So far, the doing for me is to take care of ME. Somehow I am sure mom is

> > doing fine, blaming me for being " such a rotten daughter...so selfish.

> > always thinking of myself and never considering her feelings and her

age. "

> > ...then I get told.. " I am such a wonderful daughter, so thoughtful and

> kind

> > with the biggest heart.. " ..and back and forth it goes when it suits her

> > perceptions.

> >

> >

> >

> > Oh well, not right now Mom. You do enough for yourself to make sure you

> are

> > ALWAYS ok.

> >

> >

> >

> > Twyla

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Oh dear no. I don't feel " hijacked " at all. I appreciate and learn from all of

you so every response is important to me. And it gives me comfort knowing I'm

not the only one struggling with these very same issues.

>

> Twyla, (and apologies to Irene if this feels like your chain is being

hijacked, I understand where you are coming from on the Xmas card and hope this

post can help you too)

>

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