Guest guest Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Hi Everyone, ....Haven't posted here in quite some time. Hope that we all have as 'great' holidays as possible. I'm celebrating with a whopping does of guilt. Nada thinks that I'm abandoning my life and coming home to take care of her in January. She is very sad that I'm not there for Xmas. I offered to go. But she will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket. I'm supposed to sell my condo, quit school....And I'm not 'allowed' to look for a job or make plans for my future. I'm in my 50s and have been widowed - suiddenly and very traumatically - almost seven years ago. To complicate matters, nada now has an at-home aide, who I think is well on her way to becoming a surrogate daughter in ways that I just cannot. So, I think that I am also on my was to being disinherited. When nada phones, she is weirder and sadder and more guilt-rendering than ever. She wants to know what I'm doing and how I plan to spend my day. Then there is silence. I had offered to come 'home' to nada for XMas, but as I said, she will only allow me to if I get a one-way plane ticket and give up my life. I know that everything I'm writing is ludicrous. But it's really getting to me over the holidays. I can't wait for the holidays to end. Nada is also upset that I may get an unemployment benefits extension! She whines that she NEEDS me (as an object). Ironically, if when I offered to 'visit' she says " WHAT WOULD I DO WITH YOU? " Although nada was really ill a few months ago, she is getting stronger.. A few weeks ago, she was able to punch the social worker. It's so hard having a nada. It's so hard trying to rebuild one's life with a nada. Thanks for listening! Group Hug, - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 ((((())))) Its not easy to let go of the inappropriate and misplaced guilt that a mentally ill, abusive parent lays on her child, but it is possible. Here's one idea for you to try: instead of using the word " guilt " for what you are feeling, try using the word " pity. " You can pity or feel sorry for your nada because she IS a miserable, unhappy person, but you can pity her without feeling *responsible for causing her misery, or for curing her misery.* Guilt is appropriate and healthy to feel when we have done something wrong; you have done nothing wrong, so your feelings of guilt are inappropriate. Give the burden of inappropriate, misplaced guilt back to your nada; its her responsibility to carry it. We as adults are responsible for our own feelings, our own happiness or lack of it. Its not OK to shift that job over to another person to manage for us; its particularly not OK to burden one's child with that job. That's being abusive. Using your own child like that is wrong, whether its placing your child in the role of your " mommy " , your servant, your substitute spouse, your source of income, your only friend, or using your child to gratify your sexual needs... its ALL wrong. Me personally, as an adult I used to hope fervently to myself that my mother might get married again after dad died, or that she might hire a live-in companion or care-giver to be with her 24/7. I wished this most fervently after I did choose to stay with her for 2 months at one point to act as her full-time care-giver pre-and post-operation (her first major surgery.) That was the longest 2 months of my life. I felt completely drained and sick, sucked dry like an empty insect husk after the spider is done with it. Nothing I did was ever done right, or done enough, or done fast enough, etc. I believe I became clinically, even dangerously depressed by the end of that 2 months; it took another 2 months of being back home in my regular job before I started to feel like " me " again. After that experience, I knew that there was no possible way I could act as nada's permanent care-giver should she need nursing care. I could contribute monetarily toward getting her nursing care, but I could not provide it personally. So, good for you for having the courage to protect yourself from more abuse. There is nothing morally or ethically wrong with withdrawing yourself from an abusive person or situation, it doesn't make you a bad person or a bad daughter to simply remove yourself out of reach of another emotional or physical blow. I hope that helps. -Annie > > Hi Everyone, > > ...Haven't posted here in quite some time. Hope that we all have as 'great' holidays as possible. > > I'm celebrating with a whopping does of guilt. > > Nada thinks that I'm abandoning my life and coming home to take care of her in January. > > She is very sad that I'm not there for Xmas. > > I offered to go. But she will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket. > > I'm supposed to sell my condo, quit school....And I'm not 'allowed' to look for a job or make > plans for my future. > > I'm in my 50s and have been widowed - suiddenly and very traumatically - almost seven years ago. > > To complicate matters, nada now has an at-home aide, who I think is well on her way to becoming a > surrogate daughter in ways that I just cannot. > > So, I think that I am also on my was to being disinherited. > > When nada phones, she is weirder and sadder and more guilt-rendering than ever. > She wants to know what I'm doing and how I plan to spend my day. Then there is silence. > > I had offered to come 'home' to nada for XMas, but as I said, she will only allow me to if I get a one-way > plane ticket and give up my life. > > I know that everything I'm writing is ludicrous. But it's really getting to me over the holidays. I can't wait for > the holidays to end. > > Nada is also upset that I may get an unemployment benefits extension! > > She whines that she NEEDS me (as an object). > > Ironically, if when I offered to 'visit' she says " WHAT WOULD I DO WITH YOU? " > > Although nada was really ill a few months ago, she is getting stronger.. > > A few weeks ago, she was able to punch the social worker. > > It's so hard having a nada. It's so hard trying to rebuild one's life with a nada. > > Thanks for listening! > > Group Hug, > - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Hi Annie, Thanks for helping me with this.  You are amazing!   T Namaste! - ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Guilt for Xmas  ((((())))) Its not easy to let go of the inappropriate and misplaced guilt that a mentally ill, abusive parent lays on her child, but it is possible. Here's one idea for you to try: instead of using the word " guilt " for what you are feeling, try using the word " pity. " You can pity or feel sorry for your nada because she IS a miserable, unhappy person, but you can pity her without feeling *responsible for causing her misery, or for curing her misery.* Guilt is appropriate and healthy to feel when we have done something wrong; you have done nothing wrong, so your feelings of guilt are inappropriate. Give the burden of inappropriate, misplaced guilt back to your nada; its her responsibility to carry it. We as adults are responsible for our own feelings, our own happiness or lack of it. Its not OK to shift that job over to another person to manage for us; its particularly not OK to burden one's child with that job. That's being abusive. Using your own child like that is wrong, whether its placing your child in the role of your " mommy " , your servant, your substitute spouse, your source of income, your only friend, or using your child to gratify your sexual needs... its ALL wrong. Me personally, as an adult I used to hope fervently to myself that my mother might get married again after dad died, or that she might hire a live-in companion or care-giver to be with her 24/7. I wished this most fervently after I did choose to stay with her for 2 months at one point to act as her full-time care-giver pre-and post-operation (her first major surgery.) That was the longest 2 months of my life. I felt completely drained and sick, sucked dry like an empty insect husk after the spider is done with it. Nothing I did was ever done right, or done enough, or done fast enough, etc. I believe I became clinically, even dangerously depressed by the end of that 2 months; it took another 2 months of being back home in my regular job before I started to feel like " me " again. After that experience, I knew that there was no possible way I could act as nada's permanent care-giver should she need nursing care. I could contribute monetarily toward getting her nursing care, but I could not provide it personally. So, good for you for having the courage to protect yourself from more abuse. There is nothing morally or ethically wrong with withdrawing yourself from an abusive person or situation, it doesn't make you a bad person or a bad daughter to simply remove yourself out of reach of another emotional or physical blow. I hope that helps. -Annie > > Hi Everyone, > > ...Haven't posted here in quite some time.  Hope that we all have as 'great' holidays as possible. > > I'm celebrating with a whopping does of guilt.  > > Nada thinks that I'm abandoning my life and coming home to take care of her in January. > > She is very sad that I'm not there for Xmas.  > > I offered to go. But she will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket. > > I'm supposed to sell my condo, quit school....And I'm not 'allowed' to look for a job or make > plans for my future.  > > I'm in my 50s and have been widowed - suiddenly and very traumatically - almost seven years ago. > > To complicate matters, nada now has an at-home aide, who I think is well on her way to becoming a > surrogate daughter in ways that I just cannot. > > So, I think that I am also on my was to being disinherited. > > When nada phones, she is weirder and sadder and more guilt-rendering than ever. > She wants to know what I'm doing and how I plan to spend my day.  Then there is silence. > > I had offered to come 'home' to nada for XMas, but as I said, she will only allow me to if I get a one-way > plane ticket and give up my life. > > I know that everything I'm writing is ludicrous.  But it's really getting to me over the holidays.  I can't wait for > the holidays to end. > > Nada is also upset that I may get an unemployment benefits extension! > > She whines that she NEEDS me (as an object). > > Ironically, if when I offered to 'visit' she says " WHAT WOULD I DO WITH YOU? " > > Although nada was really ill a few months ago, she is getting stronger.. > > A few weeks ago, she was able to punch the social worker. > > It's so hard having a nada.  It's so hard trying to rebuild one's life with a nada. > > Thanks for listening! > > Group Hug, > - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Pity is a far better word. Be strong and know you are worth more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Hi Sherry, Annie and Everyone, I've been 'processing' what Annie said all night (guilt is inappropriate response to BPD behavior and that pity is appropriate).  This is really brilliant! In addition, I think that there may be three steps to 'recovery' from 'inappropriate guilt'... Guilt, Pity......and eventually Compassion. I think that Pity is a bridge to Compassion. I'm not there yet..... Group Hugs & Namaste! - ________________________________ To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 7:23 AM Subject: Re: Guilt for Xmas  Pity is a far better word.  Be strong and know you are worth more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Looks like many of us will be having less than the wonderful Christmas songs warble about. I won't be visiting my nada this year since she's decided to hate me full time, not just part time and has disowned me quite thoroughly. In one sense I'm relieved to be off that crazy emotional roller coaster. But like you, there is that scent of guilt in the air. Self doubt that maybe there's something I could or should be doing. I just can't figure out what it is so I'm trying to ignore it. In your message what caught my eye was the part: " Ironically, if when I offered to 'visit' she says " WHAT WOULD I DO WITH YOU? " You could turn it around: whether you come to see her for 5 days or 5 years, what would she do with you? Same thing. Her question makes no sense actually. If she is strong enough to attack a social worker, then she doesn't actually " need " you there to help her. Need is usually related to buying food, taking a shower, getting to doctor appointments (my nada actually needs help with these things). But our nadas can find or hire others to do these things for them. They simply want us there to control and dump on. That's not our job. I do hope you find some bits of joy this season. We had snow the other day and it was so beautiful. I sat and stared at the pure white flakes floating down. I'll grab whatever bits of peace I can find and cling tightly. You too. You're not alone in this weirdness. Hugs. > > Hi Everyone, > > ...Haven't posted here in quite some time. Hope that we all have as 'great' holidays as possible. > > I'm celebrating with a whopping does of guilt. > > Nada thinks that I'm abandoning my life and coming home to take care of her in January. > > She is very sad that I'm not there for Xmas. > > I offered to go. But she will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket. > > I'm supposed to sell my condo, quit school....And I'm not 'allowed' to look for a job or make > plans for my future. > > I'm in my 50s and have been widowed - suiddenly and very traumatically - almost seven years ago. > > To complicate matters, nada now has an at-home aide, who I think is well on her way to becoming a > surrogate daughter in ways that I just cannot. > > So, I think that I am also on my was to being disinherited. > > When nada phones, she is weirder and sadder and more guilt-rendering than ever. > She wants to know what I'm doing and how I plan to spend my day. Then there is silence. > > I had offered to come 'home' to nada for XMas, but as I said, she will only allow me to if I get a one-way > plane ticket and give up my life. > > I know that everything I'm writing is ludicrous. But it's really getting to me over the holidays. I can't wait for > the holidays to end. > > Nada is also upset that I may get an unemployment benefits extension! > > She whines that she NEEDS me (as an object). > > Ironically, if when I offered to 'visit' she says " WHAT WOULD I DO WITH YOU? " > > Although nada was really ill a few months ago, she is getting stronger.. > > A few weeks ago, she was able to punch the social worker. > > It's so hard having a nada. It's so hard trying to rebuild one's life with a nada. > > Thanks for listening! > > Group Hug, > - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 I am a new member and already can relate to alot of the comments. I have an elderly mother who presents a wonderful face to the world, but attacks me with critism about how I look out of the blue. I am attractive and in good shape. Is it that she needs to project her self-hate that she can't own onto me? How do you respond. This has been gong on for years. If I say " stop it " she replies " Don't ger nasty. My dad recently passed away and he validated her MI by saying to me " she is two people " Like a witch > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > ...Haven't posted here in quite some time. Hope that we all have as 'great' holidays as possible. > > > > I'm celebrating with a whopping does of guilt. > > > > Nada thinks that I'm abandoning my life and coming home to take care of her in January. > > > > She is very sad that I'm not there for Xmas. > > > > I offered to go. But she will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket. > > > > I'm supposed to sell my condo, quit school....And I'm not 'allowed' to look for a job or make > > plans for my future. > > > > I'm in my 50s and have been widowed - suiddenly and very traumatically - almost seven years ago. > > > > To complicate matters, nada now has an at-home aide, who I think is well on her way to becoming a > > surrogate daughter in ways that I just cannot. > > > > So, I think that I am also on my was to being disinherited. > > > > When nada phones, she is weirder and sadder and more guilt-rendering than ever. > > She wants to know what I'm doing and how I plan to spend my day. Then there is silence. > > > > I had offered to come 'home' to nada for XMas, but as I said, she will only allow me to if I get a one-way > > plane ticket and give up my life. > > > > I know that everything I'm writing is ludicrous. But it's really getting to me over the holidays. I can't wait for > > the holidays to end. > > > > Nada is also upset that I may get an unemployment benefits extension! > > > > She whines that she NEEDS me (as an object). > > > > Ironically, if when I offered to 'visit' she says " WHAT WOULD I DO WITH YOU? " > > > > Although nada was really ill a few months ago, she is getting stronger.. > > > > A few weeks ago, she was able to punch the social worker. > > > > It's so hard having a nada. It's so hard trying to rebuild one's life with a nada. > > > > Thanks for listening! > > > > Group Hug, > > - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Hi Irene and Everyone, Yes, the holidays are so weird. Nada can punch the social worker, but she has a hard time going down stairs and has the social worker who she punched buy her groceries! I'm glad that you're enjoying the pretty snow and finding joy this holiday season. I'll be happy when the holidays are over. I tell myself that, even in more 'normal' families, the holidays still can be stressful. Instead, I just try to do things I enjoy but I don't really like being alone....Anyway, happy holidays! - > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > ...Haven't posted here in quite some time. Hope that we all have as 'great' holidays as possible. > > > > I'm celebrating with a whopping does of guilt. > > > > Nada thinks that I'm abandoning my life and coming home to take care of her in January. > > > > She is very sad that I'm not there for Xmas. > > > > I offered to go. But she will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket. > > > > I'm supposed to sell my condo, quit school....And I'm not 'allowed' to look for a job or make > > plans for my future. > > > > I'm in my 50s and have been widowed - suiddenly and very traumatically - almost seven years ago. > > > > To complicate matters, nada now has an at-home aide, who I think is well on her way to becoming a > > surrogate daughter in ways that I just cannot. > > > > So, I think that I am also on my was to being disinherited. > > > > When nada phones, she is weirder and sadder and more guilt-rendering than ever. > > She wants to know what I'm doing and how I plan to spend my day. Then there is silence. > > > > I had offered to come 'home' to nada for XMas, but as I said, she will only allow me to if I get a one-way > > plane ticket and give up my life. > > > > I know that everything I'm writing is ludicrous. But it's really getting to me over the holidays. I can't wait for > > the holidays to end. > > > > Nada is also upset that I may get an unemployment benefits extension! > > > > She whines that she NEEDS me (as an object). > > > > Ironically, if when I offered to 'visit' she says " WHAT WOULD I DO WITH YOU? " > > > > Although nada was really ill a few months ago, she is getting stronger.. > > > > A few weeks ago, she was able to punch the social worker. > > > > It's so hard having a nada. It's so hard trying to rebuild one's life with a nada. > > > > Thanks for listening! > > > > Group Hug, > > - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Hi Ilene, It's hard to imagine, but she is actually jealous of you.  Also she does not see you as an individual, but as part of herself. If my nada would see me now, she would rant that I'm too thin (I'm healthy), and she would not like the color of my hair (henna) and would want me to get a haircut (don't want).  And she would not like the way I dress (healthy for a person relatively in shape).  And she would disapprove of what I eat (no red meat)... As she said the last time I saw her 14 years ago when she tried to ruin my marriage by trying to turn my late husband against me... LASAGNA WITH MEEEEEAT!  (As in " what's wrong with you for not eating lasagna with meat??? How dare you??? " ) I would not be allowed to go to the gym.  I would have to do everything that she wants, which would never be good enough.  I would not be able to take a shower when needed after working out - (but I would never be allowed to work out).... And nothing I would or could do would ever be good enough. And then she would start raging and screaming that I have not been physically a part of her life for 14 years, and she would turn into a witch, like 'Blanche Dubois' from the classic film, Streetcar Named Desire (or something like that).....And she would say, kind of like Blanche, who said, " I'VE ALWAYS RELIED ON THE KINDNESS OF STRANGERS " (which is her situation today, except for her reliance on my mentally handicapped brother who has given up his little bit of independence to be her guardian / keeper / over-seer while she sleeps.  Nada says....Blanche-style..... " FROM STRANGERS - KINDNESS.....FROM MY OWN FLESH AND BLOOD NOTHING!!!!!!! About an hour ago, she phoned and got really upset and whined when I talked about finding someone to date and rebuilding my life...She started crying and almost screaming  " YOU'RE NOT COMING HOME??????? "  I used my rendition of the medium-chill technique to blow her off....I just said yes....OMG....If I hadn't she would explode and disown / disinherit me right then and there...... So, other people are allowed to have a life, to rebuild their life, are supported by somewhat normal parents / family.  And we have these sick people who are incapable of seeing anyone as existing as separate individuals. They think that b/c they birthed us that they own our flesh and blood - which they suck out of us. Am so sick of her today.  I just wish that I could never talk to her again. I feel like disappearing off the face of the earth - as far as she is concerned - maybe I should just join some live-in meditation retreat.  I'm losing unemployment, don't have a job, have job prospects, lost my husband - and am only ALLOWED to be her servant.  If she were a normal 'mother' it would be nurturing to be a part of family.  But this is FOO in the worst terms. So, Ilene, this is their disease....It has nothing to do with us.  Jealous of their own flesh and blood which they deny healthy independence, separation, individuation and ultimately life.  For me, it's a continuous, rude awakening and a wake-up call to FLEE! Group Hugs, Namaste & As Happy Holidays as Possible! - ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Guilt for Xmas  I am a new member and already can relate to alot of the comments. I have an elderly mother who presents a wonderful face to the world, but attacks me with critism about how I look out of the blue. I am attractive and in good shape. Is it that she needs to project her self-hate that she can't own onto me? How do you respond. This has been gong on for years. If I say " stop it " she replies " Don't ger nasty. My dad recently passed away and he validated her MI by saying to me " she is two people " Like a witch > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > ...Haven't posted here in quite some time.  Hope that we all have as 'great' holidays as possible. > > > > I'm celebrating with a whopping does of guilt.  > > > > Nada thinks that I'm abandoning my life and coming home to take care of her in January. > > > > She is very sad that I'm not there for Xmas.  > > > > I offered to go. But she will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket. > > > > I'm supposed to sell my condo, quit school....And I'm not 'allowed' to look for a job or make > > plans for my future.  > > > > I'm in my 50s and have been widowed - suiddenly and very traumatically - almost seven years ago. > > > > To complicate matters, nada now has an at-home aide, who I think is well on her way to becoming a > > surrogate daughter in ways that I just cannot. > > > > So, I think that I am also on my was to being disinherited. > > > > When nada phones, she is weirder and sadder and more guilt-rendering than ever. > > She wants to know what I'm doing and how I plan to spend my day.  Then there is silence. > > > > I had offered to come 'home' to nada for XMas, but as I said, she will only allow me to if I get a one-way > > plane ticket and give up my life. > > > > I know that everything I'm writing is ludicrous.  But it's really getting to me over the holidays.  I can't wait for > > the holidays to end. > > > > Nada is also upset that I may get an unemployment benefits extension! > > > > She whines that she NEEDS me (as an object). > > > > Ironically, if when I offered to 'visit' she says " WHAT WOULD I DO WITH YOU? " > > > > Although nada was really ill a few months ago, she is getting stronger.. > > > > A few weeks ago, she was able to punch the social worker. > > > > It's so hard having a nada.  It's so hard trying to rebuild one's life with a nada. > > > > Thanks for listening! > > > > Group Hug, > > - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 My mother ruined every Christmas for years, finding a way to pack her bags and drive three hours home. One Christmas, her car was blocked in between two cars and rather than ask others to move their vehicles, she waited two days until the family took a walk to take a taxi to the bus station. We arrived home and she was gone. That was the last straw and the last Christmas Day spent with her. We drove to her place post-Christmas last year and are planning the same this year to spend the day. I phoned today to wish her a Merry Christmas and after so many ruined celebrations, I still felt a twinge of guilt. What helped was finally setting a boundary and giving myself permission to have a fun day without anxiety over what might set her off. > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > ...Haven't posted here in quite some time.  Hope that we all have as 'great' holidays as possible. > > > > I'm celebrating with a whopping does of guilt.  > > > > Nada thinks that I'm abandoning my life and coming home to take care of her in January. > > > > She is very sad that I'm not there for Xmas.  > > > > I offered to go. But she will only allow me to visit her if I buy a one-way plane ticket. > > > > I'm supposed to sell my condo, quit school....And I'm not 'allowed' to look for a job or make > > plans for my future.  > > > > I'm in my 50s and have been widowed - suiddenly and very traumatically - almost seven years ago. > > > > To complicate matters, nada now has an at-home aide, who I think is well on her way to becoming a > > surrogate daughter in ways that I just cannot. > > > > So, I think that I am also on my was to being disinherited. > > > > When nada phones, she is weirder and sadder and more guilt-rendering than ever. > > She wants to know what I'm doing and how I plan to spend my day.  Then there is silence. > > > > I had offered to come 'home' to nada for XMas, but as I said, she will only allow me to if I get a one-way > > plane ticket and give up my life. > > > > I know that everything I'm writing is ludicrous.  But it's really getting to me over the holidays.  I can't wait for > > the holidays to end. > > > > Nada is also upset that I may get an unemployment benefits extension! > > > > She whines that she NEEDS me (as an object). > > > > Ironically, if when I offered to 'visit' she says " WHAT WOULD I DO WITH YOU? " > > > > Although nada was really ill a few months ago, she is getting stronger.. > > > > A few weeks ago, she was able to punch the social worker. > > > > It's so hard having a nada.  It's so hard trying to rebuild one's life with a nada. > > > > Thanks for listening! > > > > Group Hug, > > - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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