need some info for a friend

October 15, 2000

Hi all! A girlfriend has asked me to help her in getting some information

together. Let me give you some background.......

She and her husband have been married for about 7 years and have a 26 month

old little girl who'm she still breastfeeds and cosleeps with. About a month

ago the husband basically came home and told her he was not happy with this

'life' (goes to show--appearances say they have it all and were happy, even

to her!) and hadn't been for some time, that he loved the little girl but it

was probably a mistake for him to have children and didn't think he ever

wanted to have anymore(she does want more).....Well, needless to say this has

blown my friend away!! She was totally taken off guard. They are going to

counseling but she just doesn't feel very hopeful since his actions are not

changing and he's not giving her any indication that he's moving out of this.

She certainly doesn't want to think about divorce but the husband is an

attorney and she just doesn't want to be caught off guard in the event that

he decides that is the only way to go. She's asked me if I could possibly

help her in gathering any information that would help out in her case (she

hasn't seen a lawyer yet but plans to soon, just in case). She's been

breastfeeding and cosleeping (minus the dad in the bed) with the little one

since birth and has NEVER been away from her for more than a couple hours.

She's quite concerned about how/what any visitation rights would do to the

little girl---she's never been away for a night let alone a weekend. Not to

mention that, although the guy is a good/decent guy, he's not been the

" active " type of father. He's only ever stayed(parented) with the little

girl a couple times while my friend has gone to do an errand, has never

changed a diaper, or given a bath. Of course my friend is worried about the

implications of any divorce should it happen that way so she's wondering if

there's any books, or even legislation that would protect her since it's not

like the little girl is an infant.....I don't know, anyone know how I can

help her out here? She in no way wants to keep the daughter from him, just

doesn't want to be told that she has to suddenly turn over her little girl to

someone who has not been much involved. She just knows that the little girl

would not be ready for any of this.

I'm sorry this is so long and I'm really hoping some of you might have some

resources that I can pass along to her. She hates having to even think like

this, but like I said, her husband is an attorney so she feels she should

have some ducks in a row just in case.

Thank-you very much for any info you all might have.

Fawn

October 15, 2000

Hello,

I don't have any legal information or anything, except to say that

most courts still favor the mother, though she can ask around

where she is because a few counties are different (and each

situation is different, of course). They always look at " the best

interest of the child. " As a family therapist, I must say that

perhaps the husband feels left out. My husband is extremely

involved but he needs his time too. Perhaps he has a differing view

on parenting and did not realize quite how much time the child

would take, even going into the toddler years. Marriage is about

coming to compromises sometimes. I am sure your friend has love

for them both but the husband is perhaps not feeling like it right

now. Why would he want to have more children if only one child

leaves him feeling left out?

> Hi all! A girlfriend has asked me to help her in getting some

> information together. Let me give you some background....... She and

> her husband have been married for about 7 years and have a 26 month

> old little girl who'm she still breastfeeds and cosleeps with.

Carla Zorko, carladee@...

Adam Dean Zorko (DOB: 5-9-00)

http://home.earthlink.net/~gzorko

October 16, 2000

In a message dated 10/16/00 8:28:13 AM Central Daylight Time,

tcramer@... writes:

<< While I can understand why your friend is panicking (who would want to face

an attorney in court?), I also think that her first line of action should be

to put herself in her husband's shoes and try damn hard to work it out with

him.

--She is working " damn hard " to work it out, as I said , just doesn't wanna

be caught off guard should he walk in the door tomorrow asking for a divorce!

She does love him and tells me how they've both always talked (in the past)

about how 'other people' get divorces, not them......

If you look at it from his point of view, can you blame him for how he

feels? For the past 2 years, he's been playing 2nd fiddle to the daughter

and he probably feels like he *doesn't* have a wife so there's no point in

sticking around. After all, if he can't sleep in his own bed with his wife

now, what will happen if they have more kids? At that point, if he doesn't

already, he'll be reduced to feeling like a sperm donor and wallet.

--Ok, now this seems a bit nasty. You do not know my friend or her husband

or any of the ways she's tried to get him involved with this child. He

CHOOSES not to sleep in the bed with them, or do much else with the child

than sit and watch tv as she plays nearby, so on and so on. Again, I feel he

is a decent guy and good husband, just lacks the get up and go when it comes

to the active parenting. My friend has said for awhile that maybe when the

little girl was a bit older, more responsive to him, that he'd be involved

more, but is still waiting....

Does she still love her husband? Does she

enjoy being married to him in any way, shape or form?

--Yes, yes, yes!! Remember, he is the one who came home and blew her away

with all this!!

Is she prepared to have her daughter grow up shuttling back and forth between

the two of them?

Is she prepared for the drastic change in lifestyle that divorce will bring

(I'm assuming that her husband's career allows her to be a SAHM, which will

end and she'll have to work & put her daughter in daycare)?

--Of course she doesn't want any of this!! Who does??? Her point is that

she just better be prepared in the event that it does happen, who can blame

her for that?

visitation rights are going to be something that she (and her daughter) have

to get used to.

--and they would, she just doesn't want it to be a sudden drastic thing

tramatizing everyone involved!

It sounds like she thinks that the dad shouldn't have any time alone with

his daughter because of his lack of involvement to date and I personally

think she needs to adjust her attitude. This guy is the father and

regardless of how his parenting has been in the past, he has just as much

right to the child as she. Quite frankly, the more I think about it, it

sounds like she already sees the father as sperm donor/wallet rather than

any kind of equal partner. Maybe he's better moving on and letting some

other chump take his place.

--again, what's with the nastiness??

She would love nothing more than to see her husband more involved with

their child. She'd love him to take some initiative and offer to help out or

take the little one for an outing or whatever--fact is--he doesn't.....

It's a shame that we had to go through hell to get to where we are, and it

sounds like your friend might have to do the same. It is worth it if they

make it -- but first she's going to have to decide exactly what is important

to her.

--Having gone through something similar, I know I don't have to tell you she

IS going through hell and high water to save this marriage but she can't do

it alone!

--Thanks for your comments but I really asked for any type of

information, websites, documents, legislation that I could pass on to her to

offer some hope that her *baby* wouldn't be ripped from her breast or bed to

go suddenly to stay with a man (however honorable, and wonderful) she barely

knows.......>>

Fawn

October 16, 2000

After reading some of the comments on the situation with my girlfriend I feel

like it's necessary to clarify a few things. Although I may have made the

impression that the ONLY thing this guy is bothered or unhappy with is having

a child and the fact that he doesn't think he wants anymore--it's not really

the case. I'm just trying to give a quick overview of this relationship as

it relates to the issue of having a breastfeeding/cosleeping child should

this situation end in a divorce. WHICH MY FRIEND DOES NOT WANT!!

It is a horribly difficult situation and I know we all have differing

*personal* thoughts on it. I don't know or feel the need to give each and

every detail. The husband says he's not really happy, they are going to

counseling, the child/parenting issue is only one (of which my friend has

dealt with for 2 years and accepts) aspect of the marriage.

What she needs here is some encouragement, information. Maybe I shouldn't

have brought it here but like I've said before I feel you all are very

supportive and knowledgeable on many subjects. She's heard me talk time and

again about this 'list' and wondered if anyone would have any type of

help/info for her should this end in court.

Thanks!

Fawn

October 16, 2000

Hi Fawn,

My suggestions and comments are only based on the info you've given here, so

take 'em with a grain of salt.

While I can understand why your friend is panicking (who would want to face

an attorney in court?), I also think that her first line of action should be

to put herself in her husband's shoes and try damn hard to work it out with

him.

If you look at it from his point of view, can you blame him for how he

feels? For the past 2 years, he's been playing 2nd fiddle to the daughter

and he probably feels like he *doesn't* have a wife so there's no point in

sticking around. After all, if he can't sleep in his own bed with his wife

now, what will happen if they have more kids? At that point, if he doesn't

already, he'll be reduced to feeling like a sperm donor and wallet.

Before she looks for legal advice (which could very well put the husband on

the defensive by making him assume that she's ok with divorce), she should

decide what's important to her. Does she still love her husband? Does she

enjoy being married to him in any way, shape or form? Is she prepared to

have her daughter grow up shuttling back and forth between the two of them?

Is she prepared for the drastic change in lifestyle that divorce will bring

(I'm assuming that her husband's career allows her to be a SAHM, which will

end and she'll have to work & put her daughter in daycare)?

If she does go to see a lawyer, she's probably going to hear that she will

most assuredly get full-custody of her daughter, but the visitation rights

are going to be something that she (and her daughter) have to get used to.

It sounds like she thinks that the dad shouldn't have any time alone with

his daughter because of his lack of involvement to date and I personally

think she needs to adjust her attitude. This guy is the father and

regardless of how his parenting has been in the past, he has just as much

right to the child as she. Quite frankly, the more I think about it, it

sounds like she already sees the father as sperm donor/wallet rather than

any kind of equal partner. Maybe he's better moving on and letting some

other chump take his place.

I do know from experience that it's all too easy for children to take their

toll on a marriage. Several years ago, DH and I separated -- actually, I

walked out because he was so far gone from our marriage that a co-worker set

him up on a blind date with one of her friends! Fortunately, during the

month I was gone, he realized that our marriage *was* important to him and

he did a lot of groveling. I came back and we WORKED to improve things we

didn't like. It's very important to both of us to raise our childen in an

intact family and we've found that we have to put our relationship first. If

we're not happy together, no one's happy. As a result, you'd think we're

newlyweds -- we *enjoy* being together, laugh like 2 little kids and can't

imagine a life without each other. We think it makes us much better parents.

It's a shame that we had to go through hell to get to where we are, and it

sounds like your friend might have to do the same. It is worth it if they

make it -- but first she's going to have to decide exactly what is important

to her.

October 16, 2000

I would have to agree with you on this subject .

Re: need some info for a friendHi Fawn,My suggestions and comments are only based on the info you've given here, sotake 'em with a grain of salt.While I can understand why your friend is panicking (who would want to facean attorney in court?), I also think that her first line of action should beto put herself in her husband's shoes and try damn hard to work it out withhim.If you look at it from his point of view, can you blame him for how hefeels? For the past 2 years, he's been playing 2nd fiddle to the daughterand he probably feels like he *doesn't* have a wife so there's no point insticking around. After all, if he can't sleep in his own bed with his wifenow, what will happen if they have more kids? At that point, if he doesn'talready, he'll be reduced to feeling like a sperm donor and wallet.Before she looks for legal advice (which could very well put the husband onthe defensive by making him assume that she's ok with divorce), she shoulddecide what's important to her. Does she still love her husband? Does sheenjoy being married to him in any way, shape or form? Is she prepared tohave her daughter grow up shuttling back and forth between the two of them?Is she prepared for the drastic change in lifestyle that divorce will bring(I'm assuming that her husband's career allows her to be a SAHM, which willend and she'll have to work & put her daughter in daycare)?If she does go to see a lawyer, she's probably going to hear that she willmost assuredly get full-custody of her daughter, but the visitation rightsare going to be something that she (and her daughter) have to get used to.It sounds like she thinks that the dad shouldn't have any time alone withhis daughter because of his lack of involvement to date and I personallythink she needs to adjust her attitude. This guy is the father andregardless of how his parenting has been in the past, he has just as muchright to the child as she. Quite frankly, the more I think about it, itsounds like she already sees the father as sperm donor/wallet rather thanany kind of equal partner. Maybe he's better moving on and letting someother chump take his place.I do know from experience that it's all too easy for children to take theirtoll on a marriage. Several years ago, DH and I separated -- actually, Iwalked out because he was so far gone from our marriage that a co-worker sethim up on a blind date with one of her friends! Fortunately, during themonth I was gone, he realized that our marriage *was* important to him andhe did a lot of groveling. I came back and we WORKED to improve things wedidn't like. It's very important to both of us to raise our childen in anintact family and we've found that we have to put our relationship first. Ifwe're not happy together, no one's happy. As a result, you'd think we'renewlyweds -- we *enjoy* being together, laugh like 2 little kids and can'timagine a life without each other. We think it makes us much better parents.It's a shame that we had to go through hell to get to where we are, and itsounds like your friend might have to do the same. It is worth it if theymake it -- but first she's going to have to decide exactly what is importantto her.-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>Dial 1-800-555-TELL -- You Won't Believe Your Ears!For more details, click here:>Give'>http://click.egroups.com/1/9537/0/_/410002/_/971702766/-------------------------------------------------------------------- -_- >Give the Gift of Life Breastfeed!http://www.lactivist.com

October 16, 2000

Fawn,

I don't have any websites or documents to help, but I know of a situation

where the father was not allowed to keep the baby overnight because of

breastfeeding. And their " baby " was out of infancy. The " baby " is over two

years old, and so I would guess she isn't still nursing every two hours,

right? So daddy could keep her for a while during the day and then get her

back to mommy in time for " nums " ? I will talk to my friend and see if I can

find any documentation on their case.

Krista

Re: Re: need some info for a friend

In a message dated 10/16/00 8:28:13 AM Central Daylight Time,

tcramer@... writes:

<< While I can understand why your friend is panicking (who would want to

face

an attorney in court?), I also think that her first line of action should

be

to put herself in her husband's shoes and try damn hard to work it out with

him.

--She is working " damn hard " to work it out, as I said , just doesn't wanna

be caught off guard should he walk in the door tomorrow asking for a

divorce!