Re: Really tired last few days while using HC gel in the AM

January 24, 2008

I thin you need more HC in your two morning time blocks with the earliest

being the most HC. Do you use cream for both those doses? I got that same

fatigue you describe until I got high enough. My temps now are averaging

98.4 with no thyroid supplementation, which even surprises me.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I increased my dose of Armour by 1/8 grain two nights ago (temps have

not budged even 1/10 - I think that the 4 dose schedule is definitely

an improvement for my adrenals) and " stress-dosed " by using HC gel in

the AM (assuming that I'm absorbing it better than the oral) and

before bed instead of my usual which is just using it at bed-time.

I've had some pretty serious 2-3PM dips over the past two days like I

haven't had since before I even started on Armour and HC - like the

good old days when I would be falling asleep at my desk at 2:30 or so

and get up to eat that snack of M & Ms, a bag of pretzels and a Mountain

Dew. I'm wondering whether I'm just that tired (I've slept poorly the

last two night in particular, and not well for months), or that I'm

not getting enough HC from the gel in the morning. Any ideas? I guess

that I can test it by taking the oral HC tomorrow in the AM and see if

I dip again tomorrow.

.

January 25, 2008

Switched back to cream from gel for last night's dose and slept from

11PM to 5:45 which was a slight improvement, but not what I was

hoping. I need to be able to sleep until 7AM. I took the oral for my

AM dose instead of cream or gel to see if I fade as hard as I have

been all week taking the gel in the AM. So far so good, but it's

early. Val and Cheri have said it to me a dozen times at least and I

believe that I don't have enough cortisol in me, but with temps

steady, BPs good, and blood sugar good, I don't know where to go from

40mg. Val's friend who is on 60-80mg/day might feel good that way,

but I want my adrenals to come back on-line some day and I don't want

to risk making that less likely unless I absolutely need to. I'm kind

of like Sol that way - show me something objective that indicates that

I need to be on more other than a buzzy head and a stomach ache. I

guess that the other thing that I need to try is to back that last

dose down to 8PM instead of bed-time and see if I still wake up at

5AM. Worst case is that I'll wake up at 2 or 3AM and need to take

more and eat a snack and lay there for a while afterward which is no

worse than waking up at 5:30 and laying there until the alarm goes off

at 7AM just as I'm ready to fall back to sleep.

>

> ,

>

> The cream, oinment and so on definately doesn't work as well for me.

Today

> is my 3rd day using it and I have felt worse than usual. However,

the first

> day when I started having low cortisol symptoms, I started adding

more cream

> until I felt better. So I've actually been using almost twice the

amount of

> HC with the cream that I have been taking orally. The weird thing is

that

> like you, my temps are steady the last 3 days. 98.3, 98.5, 98.4.

They have

> been averaging anywhere from 98.6-99.4. Very weird. I'm not on

thyroid yet,

> so it isn't related to that unless my body is producing on it's own in a

> wacky way. It will be interesting to see what happens when I start

taking it

> orally again tomorrow.

>

> Cherie

January 25, 2008

there is one more thing you could try to not raise the dose but

get better coverage at night. You could try a small PRED dose at

bedtime. It comes in 1MG doses so that would be equal to 4mg HC so you

could tailor it to your needs easily. Pred lasts abotu 8-12 hours.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

January 25, 2008

One of my docs suggested that I might not be getting enough cortisol

because my intestines are in a perpetual state of inflammation and are

soaking up the cortisol from the HC before it makes it into my blood

stream. He even suggested doubling my dose of HC on weekends to help

heal and reduce that inflammation so that for the rest of the week

they're better able to pass along the cortisol to the rest of my body

where it needs to go. I doubt that Val would agree with that

suggestion and I haven't done it, but it is an interesting theory that

squares with what you are thinking.

>

> Yep, I've been rubbing it in anywhere I can see blood vessels. I

even tried

> my neck to see if that would work better. Who knows. Whenever I've

had to

> take prednisone in the past, my body really likes it. I don't get

all moody

> or anything. I just felt great. Now whenever I had to wean down that was

> another story. The odd thing to me is how many people have digestive

> problems taking HC, but I don't. In fact, my stomach has been very

not happy

> with the cream as opposed to the pills. I wonder if it has a topical

effect

> on my guts as I'm digesting it that is helpful to me with Chrons

disease.

>

> Cherie

January 25, 2008

Most people need to be on a high dose for a long time to shut down the

pituitary permanently. I was reading a report last week where the person was

on 100 mg Prednisone (which is what, something like 300-500 mg

hydrocortisone?) for a year and was shut down but in 3 months off came back

to normal.

You can always try 5 mg increments because if you are getting too much you

would start to get symptoms. I think when you get some gut issues addresses

you will need less to because your liver and overall body can process it

better.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I'm kind of like Sol that way - show me something objective that

indicates that I need to be on more other than a buzzy head and a stomach

ache. I

guess that the other thing that I need to try is to back that last

.

January 25, 2008

Sorry Sol, I know that some of you have had it harder than me and for

much longer. My mother is a little older than you and she (and her

mother before she died) has lousy sleeping patterns similar to yours.

Of course I am absolutely convinced that she, my grandmother, my two

sisters and her brother (my uncle) all have thyroid issues inherited

through that side of the family so I've become much less surprised at

all of the similarities. I could live with the 6 1/2 hours of sleep

and being tired all of the time if my adrenals were healing, but

that's the part that bothers me - removing stress and getting adequate

sleep are supposed to be the two most important things for healing and

we're not getting #2 (working on #1).

> > Switched back to cream from gel for last night's dose and slept from

> > 11PM to 5:45 which was a slight improvement, but not what I was

> > hoping.

>

January 25, 2008

6 times/day, ugh. Another alarm to set. I was thinking more of

compressing it to 4 doses to see if I'm like Cheri and Jim and that

the bed-time dose is what is interfering with my sleep. I did go back

to pills for my AM dose today and, despite getting the same amount of

sleep last night as the previous two nights, I was much more awake

through the day and didn't dip between 2 and 3. I don't think that

the gel was working well for me at all. I've been thinking about

prednisolone for a while now and even Val who doesn't like it much

thinks that it might be the thing. Dunno. I wish that this wasn't so

much of a guessing game.

> > 12.5mg at 7:30AM

> 10mg at 11:30AM.

> 7.5mg at 3:30.

> 5mg at 6:30 - 7PM and

> 5mg of the gel before bed.

>

> , since it's not recommended you increase your HC, how about

> playing around with your current dose? When your first dose is too

> high, it lowers your ACTH for the day, making you much more dependent

> on external supplmentation, and doesn't give your own adrenals a

> chance. So instead of 5x/day dosing, how about trying 6x/day, at

> shorter intervals. Might also give you better coverage so you won't

> feel so low. I reduced DH's first dose and it seems to be helping

> him sleep. I had him at 5, 4, 3, 1 (syringe notches) and moved him

> to 4, 4, 3, 1. One notch could be counted as 2.5 mg.

>

> How about:

> 10 at 7:30

> 10 at 10:30

> 7.5 at 1:30

> 5 at 4:30

> 5 at 7:30

> 2.5 at bed

>

> Barb

>

January 25, 2008

Ditto. I think that is why doctors tend to just give us a " one size fits

all " because the complexity of our individual cases is too much for them to

deal with.

Heck, it is too much for US to deal with, lol.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I wish that this wasn't so much of a guessing game.

.

January 26, 2008

I felt better on the pills too, although GI was lousy yesterday and

didn't sleep well - pretty normal for me these days.

Cheri would say that my intestinal inflammation is b/c I am toxic and

I agree. I have been eating all of the wrong things for my whole

life, especially if I can put any faith in the ALCAT food sensitivity

report that I finally got a copy of yesterday. I have 8 fillings that

probably need to go some day, and I'm exposed to all of the same bad

stuff in air and water that we all are (trying to do small things like

not using toothpaste w/fluoride anymore). I think that most of it is

food and being hypo for a long, long time, and T4 therapy for last 5

years making it worse.

>

> Well, I was able to dose with pills again today and can definately

tell a

> difference. I don't feel good by any means, but definately better

than with

> the cream. Now i just need to lay in a good supply of HC so I don't

run out!

>

> BTW, , do you know what causes your intestinal inflammation?

>

January 26, 2008

's Powersmile has no fluoride.

A shower filter and faucet filter help with the chlorine and a lot of other

contaminants. You can get Hepa air purifiers just for the bedroom since we

spend the most hours there and the important time...sleeping (or trying too,

lol).

Sorry to hear the pills cause so much GI upset and the cream is not strong

enough.