Adrenal Saliva Test Help Needed

[Guest guest]

I just took the Adrenal Stress Saliva test and the results showed that

my cortisol for all 4 points were so high that it was not even on the

graph. My DHEA was also off the charts. Here's the thing...I am

taking DHEA supplements and COrtef and Isocort. My doctor told me to

continue taking it as normal during the test. He says that he can

interpert the test results given the amount of meds I am taking. He

says I am in a very dangerous spot and I need to reduce cortisol. So I

have, and I feel muscle weakness and shakiness. Not sure if my

adrenals are really OK or not now. What do you think? Now I am so

confused. I've been on HC and Isocort for 9 months. My thyroid meds

are messed up now too because my doc took me off Armour and in the

conversion gave me 110mcg too much 4 months ago. I just now found out

that the conversion amount was wrong. I am a mess and totally

discouraged. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Guest guest]

>>My doctor told me to

continue taking it as normal during the test. He says that he can

interpert the test results given the amount of meds I am taking.<<

Well he is better than I am then as I have loo,ed at a coupel hundred of these

tests and I can;t make ANY rhyme or reason out of the ones when people are on

HC. Here is a small group I collected for proof:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QJGbR4DbgqalwDGlLepOufdv-ksMhuehkIwjlMsJCLJdpFUZYOB\

-FLPsxxldZUdMMnFC1IuIhi-qGNKpLkwoyg/salivaOnHc.html

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Thsi doctor sounds leike he si causing you more problems than helping.

You can tell what is goign on a bit with BP taking first sitting then

standing. Ids your BP high? Are you having symptoms of HIGH cortiosl

such as large belly or Puffy face? You can also graph your temps per

www.drrind.com to knwo if you are on enough cortio so you could lower

till temps start fluctuating then raise back up a tad to find your

correct HC dosing. As fo rthe thyroid, what thyroid are you on?

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Thanks, .

I had thought that I had read that you couldn't test cortisol while on

HC, but I was hoping my doctor knew something I didn't.

I was on Armour and a different dr switched me to Levoxyl/Cytomel. I

immediately had hyper syptoms not knowing then that the conversion was

110 mcg over what I was taking in armour. We have reduced it 6 times

now over the last 5 months to where I am on 175 of Levoxyl only. The

reductions have been because of the developement of symptoms that she

says are hyper without ever admitting to the over prescribed amt by

110mcg. She thinks I am still having hyper sympotms which I am not sure

if it is actual hyper or adrenals because I now have some hypo symptoms

reappearing. She thinks I have too much cortisol because of puffiness,

leg swelling, irritablilty, hot flashes and weight gain. These all

started 5 weeks ago. I am so confused I do not know what is hyper or

hypo or adrenals anymore. I thought I use to know...now I can't tell

anymore. The Dr. that gave me the saliva tests thinks that it is all

insulin related and that I may now be pre-diabetic. Kind of a mess I

think now???

[Guest guest]

WELL being a Diabetic myself I can tell you it is not the end of the

world, just another DAMNED hormone to juggle! It is a MAJOR PIA to eat

properly with even pre-Diabetes to prevent damage. I would recommend

gettign a glucose meter, first off, make your own judgement and I cna

help you interpret the readings. This can also help adjust cortils so it

is not too high. The puffiness cna be from HYPO as well as high cortils.

With you not getting any T3 I suspect it is at least pqrt of the

problem. I would try to get updated thyroid labs, then you cna know

where that stands first, then as I said you can do the temp graphign as

you SLOWLY lower HC toill it starts fluctuating then go back up to where

it stops and thta is your correct HC dosing. It takes some time when you

have gotten them all mixed up but it can be sorted out agian.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

The one dr did have me do a home meter test and it varies from 107 to

117 fasting. My other dr had me do the blood test at the lab and it

is normal. So I'm not sure what to think. Both drs told me that the

other method was not reliable???

I will get back to measuring my temps so that I can get the hc

right. I did feel better before I lowered it this last time. She had

me lower it by 7.5mg. I guess its time to find a new dr again and get

labs done and get back on the right thyroid meds.

Thanks for your help and for being here.

[Guest guest]

Home glucose meters are VERY accurate. Diabetics on insulin depoend

onthese for their very lives! SO whatever doc that says they are not

accurate is full of BULL.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

We can't help you on this list when you test while on adrenal support. We

can only help with test results that are from not being on anything for 2

weeks. DHEA, Cortef and Isocort all throw your results off. More than likely

that is why all show high on the tests. You can trust your doctor (which I

would not) OR you can go off all of them for 2 weeks prior to testing and

retest.

My instincts? That your doctor is full of it, gave you bad advice and that

you are really low in cortisol which is why you feel shaky going off. Your

doctor is also messing with your thyroid.

Ask you doctor who s/he can figure out your adrenal levels when even the

tests say that supplementing throws off results? Call Diagnos tech or

wherever you got them done. They will confirm that it will throw off the

results being on supplementation. Then get a new doctor.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I just took the Adrenal Stress Saliva test and the results showed that

my cortisol for all 4 points were so high that it was not even on the

graph. My DHEA was also off the charts. Here's the thing...I am

taking DHEA supplements and COrtef and Isocort. My doctor told me to

continue taking it as normal during the test. He says that he can

interpert the test results given the amount of meds I am taking. He

says I am in a very dangerous spot and I need to reduce cortisol. So I

have, and I feel muscle weakness and shakiness. Not sure if my

adrenals are really OK or not now. What do you think? Now I am so

confused. I've been on HC and Isocort for 9 months. My thyroid meds

are messed up now too because my doc took me off Armour and in the

conversion gave me 110mcg too much 4 months ago. I just now found out

that the conversion amount was wrong. I am a mess and totally

discouraged. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Guest guest]

I think you have low cortisol causing the thyroid not to get into the cells

resulting in hypothyroid symptoms like the weight gain, irritability, leg

swelling, puffiness (which can also be low cortisol). Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I was on Armour and a different dr switched me to Levoxyl/Cytomel. I

immediately had hyper syptoms not knowing then that the conversion was

110 mcg over what I was taking in armour. We have reduced it 6 times

now over the last 5 months to where I am on 175 of Levoxyl only. The

reductions have been because of the developement of symptoms that she

says are hyper without ever admitting to the over prescribed amt by

110mcg. She thinks I am still having hyper sympotms which I am not sure

if it is actual hyper or adrenals because I now have some hypo symptoms

reappearing. She thinks I have too much cortisol because of puffiness,

leg swelling, irritablilty, hot flashes and weight gain. These all

started 5 weeks ago. I am so confused I do not know what is hyper or

hypo or adrenals anymore. I thought I use to know...now I can't tell

anymore. The Dr. that gave me the saliva tests thinks that it is all

insulin related and that I may now be pre-diabetic. Kind of a mess I

think now???

.

[Guest guest]

Quite true Val. In our experience the home meters have been much more accurate

than the

ones used at the doctor's office or the hospital. The last time my daughter was

hospitalized

the meter they were using was downright archaic.

Linn

>

> Home glucose meters are VERY accurate. Diabetics on insulin depoend

> onthese for their very lives! SO whatever doc that says they are not

> accurate is full of BULL.

>

[Guest guest]

>>My average bp is 97/66 and my glucose at home is usually between 100

and 117 fasting. <<

Your BP is not showing high cortisl but I would be concerned with a glucose over

110. What I would suggest is taking a fasting glucose when you first get out of

bed then agian in an hour withotu eating anything. You may be catching your Dawn

rise with the 117's but if you are nbot you should start eating alow carb high

fat and protein diet to help lower it.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Well, a better way to tell if you were on too much cortisol would be to

track temps. The swelling, puffiness, etc. was more than likely thyroid

related (maybe it not getting into the cells and/or getting high in the

blood). Labs showing " hyper " is because docs don't understand the thyroid

adrenal connection. I know people with TSH at zero who are still hypo. Your

doctor needs to know how to read everything properly, understand RT3, high

T3 from low cortisol and cellular resistance, and the role of adrenals with

thyroid...and it sounds like she doesn't.

I still think you need more HC. I didn't start to feel better until I got to

30-35 mg and I went completely off the Isocort.

Only taking a 10 mg, 10 mg HC is not a good rhythm. You should space doses

3-4 hours apart and you do still need it at least 3 times a day because your

baseline was extremely low. Check the ramping schedule in the files.

The other thing is Isocort is an adrenal glandular so it has more in it than

just cortisol. That is why I would go to only HC, especially before bed if

you do take any.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I was still having lots of symptoms and added the HC in June 2007. I

had been on 20mg HC and 5 Isocort until about 2 weeks ago when she

had me reduce to 2 Isocort and keeping HC at 20. I felt good on the

original dose, but because of the swelling, puffiness, hot flashes,

and anxiousness she said it was too much cortisol. Plus my thyroid

labs showed hyper so they weren't hypo symptoms according to her.I

now take 10mg HC with 2 Isocort in am and then 10mg at noon. I use

to also take 1 Isocort before bed and she had me cut that out.

Thanks again!

[Guest guest]

Well, a better way to tell if you were on too much cortisol would be to

track temps. The swelling, puffiness, etc. was more than likely thyroid

related (maybe it not getting into the cells and/or getting high in the

blood). Labs showing " hyper " is because docs don't understand the thyroid

adrenal connection. I know people with TSH at zero who are still hypo. Your

doctor needs to know how to read everything properly, understand RT3, high

T3 from low cortisol and cellular resistance, and the role of adrenals with

thyroid...and it sounds like she doesn't.

I still think you need more HC. I didn't start to feel better until I got to

30-35 mg and I went completely off the Isocort.

Only taking a 10 mg, 10 mg HC is not a good rhythm. You should space doses

3-4 hours apart and you do still need it at least 3 times a day because your

baseline was extremely low. Check the ramping schedule in the files.

The other thing is Isocort is an adrenal glandular so it has more in it than

just cortisol. That is why I would go to only HC, especially before bed if

you do take any.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I was still having lots of symptoms and added the HC in June 2007. I

had been on 20mg HC and 5 Isocort until about 2 weeks ago when she

had me reduce to 2 Isocort and keeping HC at 20. I felt good on the

original dose, but because of the swelling, puffiness, hot flashes,

and anxiousness she said it was too much cortisol. Plus my thyroid

labs showed hyper so they weren't hypo symptoms according to her.I

now take 10mg HC with 2 Isocort in am and then 10mg at noon. I use

to also take 1 Isocort before bed and she had me cut that out.

Thanks again!

[Guest guest]

You can test while taking HC, but it requires that you put the HC in a capsule

to be

swallowed, so that it doesn't affect the saliva. It won't give you a perfect

picture, as testing

without it would, but some people use it as a gauge.

Linn

>

> I haven't heard of them before, but Val has been trying for some time to

> find a way to make sense out of tests taken while on HC and hasn't had any

> luck. From everything I've gathered you can tell pretty easily if you are on

> the correct dose by graphing your temps and doing the blood pressure thing.

> Plus it doesn't cost anything! Otherwise, the only reason i see to retest

> would be to see how much if any your adrenal glands have healed and how they

> produce on their own without supplementation. And there is no way to do that

> without going off of all HC and adreanl support supplements. :-)

>

> Cherie

>

[Guest guest]

>>You can test while taking HC, but it requires that you put the HC in a capsule

to be

swallowed, so that it doesn't affect the saliva. It won't give you a perfect

picture, as testing

without it would, but some people use it as a gauge. <<

So says Dr who is not a doctor but a PHD, BUT honestly I have not seen

this work either. My last saliva labs, which I am questioning anywasy as they

were 12 days old when they got them, btu my AM saliva came in at 1.. Now if that

was true (oit was before ANY HC that day) would I not be exhausted in the

mornings? Then my noon came in at 31... after 5MG HC taken three four hours

before the saliva draw. Now how can you tell ANYTHING from that?

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

>>You can test while taking HC, but it requires that you put the HC in a capsule

to be

swallowed, so that it doesn't affect the saliva. It won't give you a perfect

picture, as testing

without it would, but some people use it as a gauge. <<

So says Dr who is not a doctor but a PHD, BUT honestly I have not seen

this work either. My last saliva labs, which I am questioning anywasy as they

were 12 days old when they got them, btu my AM saliva came in at 1.. Now if that

was true (oit was before ANY HC that day) would I not be exhausted in the

mornings? Then my noon came in at 31... after 5MG HC taken three four hours

before the saliva draw. Now how can you tell ANYTHING from that?

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

It will still affect saliva though in all doses after the morning reading

because the morning dose will get into the cells in 30 minutes maximum and

al the saliva readings after that will show the prior capsule doses. It will

also affect the first reading if you have been on it 2 weeks prior because

it impacts the communication link from the pituitary to the adrenals via the

HPA. That is why we say get a baseline done before going on cortisol which

includes glandulars.

That said, I have been on glandulars and HC on my saliva tests (but when my

blood showed low I was on nothing) because I can't go off without risking an

ian crisis. I still showed super low and stage 7 so I guess when you

are so bad it will still show stage 7, lol. I must not be producing nearly

anything for it to still show stage 7 with supplementation, though when I

increased my dose the last one showed stage 5. So the cortisol must be

doing something.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

You can test while taking HC, but it requires that you put the HC in a

capsule to be

swallowed, so that it doesn't affect the saliva. It won't give you a

perfect picture, as testing

without it would, but some people use it as a gauge.

Linn

.

[Guest guest]

I will get back to tracking me temps again. My doc was counting the

isocort towards my total HC amount. Is that right? So she said I was

on 32.5 mg of HC which was made up of 20mg cortef and 5 pellets of

Isocort. So does that mean I was already at the 30-35 mg range of HC?

Since I am only on 2 isocort now, can I just stop it completly now and

add cortef instead. I did feel better also when I was doing the

bedtime hc dose. I will start that back up again. Thanks for your

thoughts...it does help so much. I feel better already as things are

starting to make so much more sense now.

>

> Well, a better way to tell if you were on too much cortisol would be

to

> track temps. The swelling, puffiness, etc. was more than likely

thyroid

> related (maybe it not getting into the cells and/or getting high in

the

> blood). Labs showing " hyper " is because docs don't understand the

thyroid

> adrenal connection. I know people with TSH at zero who are still hypo.

Your

> doctor needs to know how to read everything properly, understand RT3,

high

> T3 from low cortisol and cellular resistance, and the role of adrenals

with

> thyroid...and it sounds like she doesn't.

>

> I still think you need more HC. I didn't start to feel better until I

got to

> 30-35 mg and I went completely off the Isocort.

>

> Only taking a 10 mg, 10 mg HC is not a good rhythm. You should space

doses

> 3-4 hours apart and you do still need it at least 3 times a day

because your

> baseline was extremely low. Check the ramping schedule in the files.

>

> The other thing is Isocort is an adrenal glandular so it has more in

it than

> just cortisol. That is why I would go to only HC, especially before

bed if

> you do take any.

>

> Cheri

>

>

[Guest guest]

Isocort is said to have 2.45mg cortisol in it, but we only have the

manufacturers word on that and with people going directly from 8 pellets

Isocirt to 20mg HC I have seen thyroid dumps regularly as the HC is MUCH

strogner, so I would not count 5 pellets as 12.5mg HC.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Yes, she is counting right, however, 5 mg of HC is stronger than 5 mg of

Isocort so keep that in mind. If you do a combo you might be more like 27.5

mg of cortisol when you are taking 32.5 mg combo.

I was on 35 mg Isocort and still no where near enough. When I went to 25 mg

HC cream I was getting better results than 35 mg Isocort. on 35 mg of HC

cream compared to 35 mg of Isocort there was a HUGE difference.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I will get back to tracking me temps again. My doc was counting the

isocort towards my total HC amount. Is that right? So she said I was

on 32.5 mg of HC which was made up of 20mg cortef and 5 pellets of

Isocort. So does that mean I was already at the 30-35 mg range of HC?

Since I am only on 2 isocort now, can I just stop it completly now and

add cortef instead. I did feel better also when I was doing the

bedtime hc dose. I will start that back up again. Thanks for your

thoughts...it does help so much. I feel better already as things are

starting to make so much more sense now.

.