RE: Crazy rhythm- failed experiment

[Guest guest]

, , . See message 41180. If you started with 15 mg

first thing, you pretty much suppressed any of your own cortisol

production for the rest of the day, as shown by your miserable night.

Is the urine smell very strong ammonia? Eating too much protein can

cause that. We take B vitamins and it makes the urine bright yellow,

but doesn't smell any worse than usual. But we don't eat excessive

protein.

You said you had chicken and brown rice. Did you not have any fat

like olive oil, butter, nuts, cheese or something else with it to

moderate any glucose rise?

Barb

" jasrich " wrote:

> Well, I think that my little experiment was a pretty clear failure

I appear to need the cortisol during the night and my adrenals

> aren't giving me any which is sort of scary.

>

> I guess that I should resume the bed-time HC. Is the fact that I

> get no cortisol production from my adrenals over-night when they are

> called on to produce the least indicative of them being totally

> suppressed on this dose of 40mg?

>

[Guest guest]

Your urination issues sound like low aldosterone to me. That is when I get

mine.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

Questions:

1. What might have been the cause of all of the urine production? It

had a very strong odor that I have noticed before too.

Thanks,

.

[Guest guest]

Doesn't that suppression at 15 mg depend on the person though? I had a few

days that high and did no cortisol after 8 pm and slept 7 hours which is

huge for me. And I am stage 7 with very little of my own production.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

, , . See message 41180. If you started with 15 mg

first thing, you pretty much suppressed any of your own cortisol

production for the rest of the day, as shown by your miserable night.

Barb

.

[Guest guest]

It's only 1/2 an apple and it's the recipe that Barb and her husband

recomemnded for a fibrous complex carb + high protein food like

nutbutter (can't do peanuts b/c they're goitrogens so we're using

sunflower butter or almond butter)that should digest slowly overnight.

It has actually been working for me pretty well until last night and

I don't think that it had anything to do with what was going on with

me, or very little. The change in HC dose is what crushed me, I'm

pretty sure of that, but I was just wondering whether the other combo

of things and symptoms jumped out at anyone.

I'm back on a five/day dosing schedule of 12.5 - 10 - 7.5 - 5 - 5 with

5 at night. I also have a call into my doc to discuss what Val

recommended the other night - swapping out my last dose for a dose of

Delta. A few people on the Real Thyroid boards have suggested it

several times, but that was another line in the sand that I didn't

want to cross but I might as well. If I could get sleep better under

control I could focus better on my gut.

>

> Oh you have SOME cortiosl production or you wouls be throwing up.

> Uncontrollably. And shaking liek you were going to die. Apple at

> bedtime? UH UH! Too much sugar! Peanut butter would be a better option

> one wihtout added sugar. I find peanut butter toast ona low carb bread

> works very well for me and I have stable glucose all night. If I ate an

> apple at bedtime, or ANY fruit, I owul dhave hypoglycemia by AM.

[Guest guest]

I was just trying to determine whether taking the HC right before bed

was causing my sleep disturbances as they do for Cheri and Jim. Since

we supposedly need so little cortisol from midnight to 6-8AM, I though

that maybe even the 2.5 - 5mg at night was stimulating enough to wake

me at 4AM. I obviously need something to get me through the night

without going so high that it messes up the AM rhythm. I don't think

that I'm at a natural rhythm for me yet. Maybe the Delta with help if

I can get it.

I don't know how to describe the smell - not proteiny, but that was

the last thing that I ate before I went to bed. I notice that I have

to get up to urinate a lot when I eat my MIL's cooking and, until more

recently, I would typically eat it with several large helpings of

white rice. Maybe I was peeing out my dinner of brown rice. Maybe

between the brown rice and the apple later I did get too many carbs?

I do mix in about a tbsp of cocunut oil (extra virgin of course) with

my rice and quinoa meals - or real butter. I usually only have 3 or 4

small spoons of rice with the chicken - maybe a little over a serving.

It's a small bowl. I usually have a few small pieces of pineapple

with it for something sweet (since I cannot eat dessert anymore) and

for the naturally occurring bromelain in pineapple. Does that sound a

like a bad dinner? Should I add more coconut oil? Not eat the rice

at all? I'm also taking 1tsp of cod liver oil around dinner time for

the Omega 3s, D, ALA, etc. Should I take more of that?

Thanks,

>

> > Well, I think that my little experiment was a pretty clear failure

> I appear to need the cortisol during the night and my adrenals

> > aren't giving me any which is sort of scary.

> >

> > I guess that I should resume the bed-time HC. Is the fact that I

> > get no cortisol production from my adrenals over-night when they are

> > called on to produce the least indicative of them being totally

> > suppressed on this dose of 40mg?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Which is why I was trying it - I'm not totally crazy. The night

before last was not a good test b/c it was a miserable night full of

stress. Last night was a perfect test and it failed badly for me so I

know now to go the other way - need a more time-release way of getting

the HC in me.

>

> Doesn't that suppression at 15 mg depend on the person though? I had

a few

> days that high and did no cortisol after 8 pm and slept 7 hours which is

> huge for me. And I am stage 7 with very little of my own production.

>

> Cheri

[Guest guest]

Could you get time released HC prescribed?

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

Which is why I was trying it - I'm not totally crazy. The night

before last was not a good test b/c it was a miserable night full of

stress. Last night was a perfect test and it failed badly for me so I

know now to go the other way - need a more time-release way of getting

the HC in me.

.

[Guest guest]

If your body cannot metabolize protein correctly (common in AF people) it

will produce an ammonia type smell.

How much sea salt are you getting per day?

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I don't know how to describe the smell - not proteiny, but that was

the last thing that I ate before I went to bed. I notice that I have

to get up to urinate a lot when I eat my MIL's cooking and, until more

recently, I would typically eat it with several large helpings of

white rice. Maybe I was peeing out my dinner of brown rice. Maybe

between the brown rice and the apple later I did get too many carbs?

Thanks,

.

[Guest guest]

" jasrich " wrote:

> I though that maybe even the 2.5 - 5mg at night was stimulating

enough to wake me at 4AM.

My personal theory is that you want to keep your daytime coverage low

enough in dose so you don't suppress your night production. 5 mg

kept DH up, but 2.5 didn't. He must be making some of his own

because he goes from 3 p.m. till bedtime dose at 10:30 p.m. He is

doing the 1/2 apple and sunbutter and sleeps pretty well. As long as

you're eating the skin, it's a very slow release carb. Occasionally

gets up, but is able to go back to sleep without eating. Is not

waking with tremors anymore.

> I notice that I have to get up to urinate a lot when I eat my MIL's

cooking and, until more recently, I would typically eat it with

several large helpings of white rice.

Funny, last night I made Spanish rice, something I hadn't made since

we were hypoglycemic, since we seem better. Hamburger, brown rice,

kidney beans, green beans, tomatoes, cheese, onions, chili

powder . . . one of my favorites. But I was very thirsty last night

and consequently, peed a lot too! The conclusion between your

experience and mine is that a too high carb dinner will stress your

adrenals overnight and make you pee more!

>Should I add more coconut oil?

Yes.

>Not eat the rice at all?

Cut that in half. Or take a chromium with dinner.

>I'm also taking 1tsp of cod liver oil around dinner time for

> the Omega 3s, D, ALA, etc. Should I take more of that?

I think that has a daily dose limit you don't want to exceed.

All you can do with the HC dosing is try different dose combinations,

at different intervals. Your body will tell you when you've got it

right. I still think you should try 6x day, but I realize that's a

PITA.

IMHO,

Barb

[Guest guest]

I think that prednisolone in the form of deltacortril or medrol is as

close as we get to TR HC.

>

> Could you get time released HC prescribed?

> Cheri

> -----Original Message-----

>

>

>

> Which is why I was trying it - I'm not totally crazy. The night

> before last was not a good test b/c it was a miserable night full of

> stress. Last night was a perfect test and it failed badly for me so I

> know now to go the other way - need a more time-release way of getting

> the HC in me.

>

>

> .

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At least 1tbsp - maybe somewhat less over the past two days, but not much.

>

> If your body cannot metabolize protein correctly (common in AF

people) it

> will produce an ammonia type smell.

>

> How much sea salt are you getting per day?

>

> Cheri

> -----Original Message-----

>

>

>

>

>

> I don't know how to describe the smell - not proteiny, but that was

> the last thing that I ate before I went to bed. I notice that I have

> to get up to urinate a lot when I eat my MIL's cooking and, until more

> recently, I would typically eat it with several large helpings of

> white rice. Maybe I was peeing out my dinner of brown rice. Maybe

> between the brown rice and the apple later I did get too many carbs?

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

>

> .

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Couple more questions.

I have these 500mg chromium pills that my new doc sold me. You said

that you and DH take 200mg with meals with carbs. Do you think that

the 500 is too much? What is the cut-off for there being enough carbs

in a meal that you should take it? I just had a protein bar with like

20 grams of carbs in it but I don't expect that I should take a chromium?

How much more of the coconut oil? I even eat a tbsp off of the spoon

like it says that you can do but don't want to get carried away.

You said that DH goes from 3PM to 10PM without a dose of HC? On

purpose or do you have him on a customized schedule? Seems like it

would be hard to get 6 doses in if he doesn't take any for that long a

time. And he's taking 2.5mg at bed right?

> > I though that maybe even the 2.5 - 5mg at night was stimulating

> enough to wake me at 4AM.

>

> My personal theory is that you want to keep your daytime coverage low

> enough in dose so you don't suppress your night production. 5 mg

> kept DH up, but 2.5 didn't. He must be making some of his own

> because he goes from 3 p.m. till bedtime dose at 10:30 p.m. He is

> doing the 1/2 apple and sunbutter and sleeps pretty well. As long as

> you're eating the skin, it's a very slow release carb. Occasionally

> gets up, but is able to go back to sleep without eating. Is not

> waking with tremors anymore.

>

> > I notice that I have to get up to urinate a lot when I eat my MIL's

> cooking and, until more recently, I would typically eat it with

> several large helpings of white rice.

>

> Funny, last night I made Spanish rice, something I hadn't made since

> we were hypoglycemic, since we seem better. Hamburger, brown rice,

> kidney beans, green beans, tomatoes, cheese, onions, chili

> powder . . . one of my favorites. But I was very thirsty last night

> and consequently, peed a lot too! The conclusion between your

> experience and mine is that a too high carb dinner will stress your

> adrenals overnight and make you pee more!

>

> >Should I add more coconut oil?

> Yes.

>

> >Not eat the rice at all?

> Cut that in half. Or take a chromium with dinner.

>

> >I'm also taking 1tsp of cod liver oil around dinner time for

> > the Omega 3s, D, ALA, etc. Should I take more of that?

> I think that has a daily dose limit you don't want to exceed.

>

> All you can do with the HC dosing is try different dose combinations,

> at different intervals. Your body will tell you when you've got it

> right. I still think you should try 6x day, but I realize that's a

> PITA.

>

> IMHO,

> Barb

>

[Guest guest]

A lot of beans and onions make me excrete more urine too. I don't know if it

is the carbs since onions don't have much or something in the onions or

beans. Even when I make a soup with just chicken broth, onions and salt I

excrete a lot. I do know that eating a lot of carbs in one day definitely

leads to more urine excretion in AF people.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

Funny, last night I made Spanish rice, something I hadn't made since

we were hypoglycemic, since we seem better. Hamburger, brown rice,

kidney beans, green beans, tomatoes, cheese, onions, chili

powder . . . one of my favorites. But I was very thirsty last night

and consequently, peed a lot too! The conclusion between your

experience and mine is that a too high carb dinner will stress your

adrenals overnight and make you pee more!

IMHO,

Barb

.

[Guest guest]

It seems like all of these vits can cause that - I'm supposed to take

the vit D early in the day also. I had been taking the B vitamins

with breakfast and dinner - supposed to take them 2x/day. Maybe I'll

move the second dose up to lunch time instead. I'll also try to do

that BMAG shot early in the day although it won't be pleasant to do

first thing - it burns and aches.

I did sleep much better last night than the night before after going

back to my 5x/day dose of HC with a bed-time dose of 5mg of cream (not

gel) - 10:30PM to 5AM, but I could not get back to sleep after 5AM as

usual. If I could just figure out a rhythm that would carry me

through the night, other than waking myself up to take HC at like 3AM,

I think that I would have this sleep thing more or less under control.

>

> hi -

> I know that vitamin B (not sure which one) causes serious sleeplessness

> and hunger for me. I always take B vitamins early AM to try to avoid

> the restlessness at night. Hope that helps.

[Guest guest]

Right off of the spoon, or mixed with something?

>

> I would get my 3 tbsp of VCO before 3 pm. Some ppl find VCO too

stimulating to take for dinner. I take 2 tbsp in the morning and one

for lunch.

>

> Pamela