Re: question regarding cytomel and symptoms

[Guest guest]

How is your ferritin? I think you are on adrenal support, but low coritsol or

low iron can both cause these I think. Feeling worse instead of better after

starting thyroid meds is classic sign of either low iron or low cortisol.

It seems you are spreading it out enough to not cause problems, but you may have

to consider dosing even more frequently, like 5 times a day.

I don't think it's okay to have your pulse going up to 120.

Kathleen

>

> Hey Group,

>

> I have a couple of questions regarding cytomel.

>

> First, when I take it, for about 1/2 hour afterwards I feel a bit hyper but

> then it subsides. My pules even jumps up to around 120. I am just checking

> in to see if this is an ok thing to happen.

>

> Second, I know that everyone on here says to give it time to work, but I

> began feeling worse about a week ago after I bumped up my dose from 30 mcg

> per day (split up into 10,10, 5, 5) to 35 mcg per day (split up into

> 10,10,10,5). I actually began to feel worse after I started taking cytomel

> a few weeks ago, but now it hasn't gotten more exagerated. As with the

> first question, for my peace of mine, I'm just checking in to make sure that

> I'm still on the right track, or if I should reevaluate things and head in a

> different direction. Also, my short term memory has gotten worse since

> beginning the HC and cytomel, so I can't remember if I asked this question

> recently - If I have, I apologize.

>

> Thanks for any info provided.

>

> Regards,

> --

> Mike

>

[Guest guest]

>First, when I take it, for about 1/2 hour afterwards I feel a bit hyper but

>then it subsides. My pules even jumps up to around 120. I am just checking

>in to see if this is an ok thing to happen.

What happens to your temperature at that time?? T3 generally builds

and reduces slower that that so I am suspecting cortisol issues with

the dose of T3 using it up faster than you can produce it and

adrenalaline getting produced as a result. This surge of adrenaline

then produces the fast pulse just after the T3 dose. If this is the

case you may see a DROP in temperaure.

>

>Second, I know that everyone on here says to give it time to work, but I

>began feeling worse about a week ago after I bumped up my dose from 30 mcg

>per day (split up into 10,10, 5, 5) to 35 mcg per day (split up into

>10,10,10,5).

Have you done the " 3 times a day and average them " temperature test,

it sounds like cortisol to me unless you have low ferritin.

>I actually began to feel worse after I started taking cytomel

>a few weeks ago, but now it hasn't gotten more exagerated. As with the

>first question, for my peace of mine, I'm just checking in to make sure that

>I'm still on the right track, or if I should reevaluate things and head in a

>different direction. Also, my short term memory has gotten worse since

>beginning the HC and cytomel, so I can't remember if I asked this question

>recently - If I have, I apologize.

What dose and timing of HC are you on, my gut feeling is that it's not

enough!

Nick

--

for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

www.thyroid-rt3.com

[Guest guest]

Mike,

If I may butt in here... You said the DP is worse when you take more HC. I was

reluctant to raise my HC, too, because I would get even more spaced out and feel

" out of it " , which made the DP much worse, and feel super jacked. Val told me

that what was happening was that, due to the feedback with the HPA axis, when I

took more HC, my own body made less, making me going even lower in HC than I was

previously and thus creating even worse low cortisol symptoms. She said the way

to stop that was to take more.

After a few days of being on more, she was right -- the bad effects from taking

more HC went away and all the good ones kicked in. No adrenaline rush = no

anxiety = no DP. But I was also taking 5htp to get my serotonin up which is

badly depleted with stress and being sick is certainly stressful! Then the DP

causes more stress.

The other thing is that you might want to play around with the dosing of HC.

Again, maybe try calling Val to see. I've seen dosing recs for 30 and I don't

think it's what you're doing. Just a thought.

Nick is right that sometimes you just have to change one thing at a time and

see.

BTW, my face gets really puffy from being hypo. I don't know about the acne,

though. I get keratosis pilarsis when I'm hypo but that's not acne per se.

Is your doc giving you anything for the DP? I understnad the head injury thing,

but what happens sometimes is that your brain no longer has the capacity to make

all the neurotransmitters you need. By taking something like 5htp you can make

what your brain needs but can't make itself. It's worth a shot anyway to try to

get some relief from the DP.

Kathleen

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >I'm currently on 30 mg of HC (10, 10, 5, 5). Although I am going to bump

> > it

> > >up to 35 mg, I hesitate to because when I take the 10 mg dose, my

> > >dereaslation gets worse. I've also gained 15 pounds, have a lot of acne on

> > >my shoulders and back and my face is starting to fill out. I have done the

> > >temp test and it srays at 98.3.

> > >

> > Was that stable temperature on the current T3 dose or on a lower

> > dose??

> >

> > As you increase T3 it is not uncommon to need more HC, at least

> > temporarily.

> >

> > The symptoms you are getting could be too much HC but they could also

> > be hypo thyroid

> >

> >

> > >I'm really not sure what to do at this point because yesterday, I felt

> > hyper

> > >pretty much the entire day. I can actually feel my heart beating sometimes

> > >and at one point, my chest felt like my heart sank down into my gut.

> >

> > I get missed beats and feel it beating when I am hypo sometimes!

> >

> >

> > >It's

> > >strange because my labs all point in the direction of needing these

> > >hormones, but my body seems to say that I don't. I'll up the HC dosage and

> >

> > Hyper thyroid is high temperature and high pulse.

> >

> > " Too much T3 for the state of adrenals or ferritin " can be all sorts

> > of strange symptoms including a temperature drop after taking T3.

> >

> > Unfortunately sometimes it's a case of " change one thing at a time "

> > and drop or increase each in turn until you can identify what's

> > causing the symptoms.

> >

> > Clues are if they occur just after taking T3 or several hours after

> > when you are ready for the next dose.

> >

> > Nick

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Mike

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathleen,Feel free to butt in anytime .  I appreciate hearing from people who have direct experience with what I'm going through.  Makes me think that there is a light at the end of this tunnel. I requested an appointment with Val for later today.  So, hopefully she has time for that. 

It's scary how similar your story is to mine (minus the head injuries).  I've done a few tests for seretonin and both came back negative for any production at all.  As a matter of fact, I've even had a QEEG done on my brain and it showed that I don't produce the alpha wave at all.  If you're not familiar, the alpha wave is associated with seretonin production since it is the " feel good " wave that our brains produce.  I

I am currently  between doctors right now, so I'm not taking any supplements besides vitamins/B complex.  I do have a appointment with a doc in LA who specializes in hormone replacement deficiency syndrome resulting from head injuries a week from today. I had an initial phone consult with him and he seems to be very knowledgeable on the subject. He is even in the process of publishing a study on this he did a couple of years ago on boxers and retired NFL football players.  However, as with all doctors, I'm sure there will be some area he is not familiar with and I'll have to rely on the group for guidance.  He also said pretty much what you stated regarding the brain not being able to produce the required neurotransmiters. He said this is especially true of people who have had head injuries and continued on with their lives never having allowed the brain to heal itself.  Essentially, the brain just gives up at some point and has to be rehabbed back into normal functioning. 

You are also right in that I probably do need more. If I remember correctly, the prednisone I was on was delivered through an IV, so it was probably a much stronger dose than what I'm on right now.  Man, I do remember that after the first IV adminstration, the entire world came into focus and I felt " real " again.  Hopefully I can duplicate this with the HC at some point.

Thanks again for " butting in. " And like I said, feel free to butt in on any of my emails.Mike

 

Mike,

If I may butt in here... You said the DP is worse when you take more HC. I was reluctant to raise my HC, too, because I would get even more spaced out and feel " out of it " , which made the DP much worse, and feel super jacked. Val told me that what was happening was that, due to the feedback with the HPA axis, when I took more HC, my own body made less, making me going even lower in HC than I was previously and thus creating even worse low cortisol symptoms. She said the way to stop that was to take more.

After a few days of being on more, she was right -- the bad effects from taking more HC went away and all the good ones kicked in. No adrenaline rush = no anxiety = no DP. But I was also taking 5htp to get my serotonin up which is badly depleted with stress and being sick is certainly stressful! Then the DP causes more stress.

The other thing is that you might want to play around with the dosing of HC. Again, maybe try calling Val to see. I've seen dosing recs for 30 and I don't think it's what you're doing. Just a thought.

Nick is right that sometimes you just have to change one thing at a time and see.

BTW, my face gets really puffy from being hypo. I don't know about the acne, though. I get keratosis pilarsis when I'm hypo but that's not acne per se.

Is your doc giving you anything for the DP? I understnad the head injury thing, but what happens sometimes is that your brain no longer has the capacity to make all the neurotransmitters you need. By taking something like 5htp you can make what your brain needs but can't make itself. It's worth a shot anyway to try to get some relief from the DP.

Kathleen

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >I'm currently on 30 mg of HC (10, 10, 5, 5). Although I am going to bump

> > it

> > >up to 35 mg, I hesitate to because when I take the 10 mg dose, my

> > >dereaslation gets worse. I've also gained 15 pounds, have a lot of acne on

> > >my shoulders and back and my face is starting to fill out. I have done the

> > >temp test and it srays at 98.3.

> > >

> > Was that stable temperature on the current T3 dose or on a lower

> > dose??

> >

> > As you increase T3 it is not uncommon to need more HC, at least

> > temporarily.

> >

> > The symptoms you are getting could be too much HC but they could also

> > be hypo thyroid

> >

> >

> > >I'm really not sure what to do at this point because yesterday, I felt

> > hyper

> > >pretty much the entire day. I can actually feel my heart beating sometimes

> > >and at one point, my chest felt like my heart sank down into my gut.

> >

> > I get missed beats and feel it beating when I am hypo sometimes!

> >

> >

> > >It's

> > >strange because my labs all point in the direction of needing these

> > >hormones, but my body seems to say that I don't. I'll up the HC dosage and

> >

> > Hyper thyroid is high temperature and high pulse.

> >

> > " Too much T3 for the state of adrenals or ferritin " can be all sorts

> > of strange symptoms including a temperature drop after taking T3.

> >

> > Unfortunately sometimes it's a case of " change one thing at a time "

> > and drop or increase each in turn until you can identify what's

> > causing the symptoms.

> >

> > Clues are if they occur just after taking T3 or several hours after

> > when you are ready for the next dose.

> >

> > Nick

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Mike

>

-- Mike

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike,

I wouldn't wish DP on anyone, but I too feel almost a relief when I see I'm not

the only one who has had this awful condition. THere IS a light at the end of

the tunnel.

Oh, I so hope the new doc can help you get the neurotransmitters straightened

out. T3 is necessary for making serotonin as well, which is probably why it

helps with depression or is used to " augment " SSRIs. But if your brain can't

make serotonin (or whatever other neurotransmitters you need) anyway, you still

need to help it out! I think you will feel tons better once you address this in

addition to the adrenals and thyroid.

Yes, an IV of pred would certainly be more than the HC you're taking right now,

lol. ;-) I am sure Val can help you get onto a proper dose of HC and you can

always back down after you've built reserves if you feel you need to. I think

sometimes if you put yourself into the ground with too little for a while, then

one might need a bit more briefly. At any rate, your dose is not much for a man

at all, so need to worry about taking more and as I said yesterday, I'd rather

be on HC for life, no matter the dose, than have DP!!! :-))

BTW, do check out " DP Manual " . It helped me so much and is cheap! Plus it's sort

of a nice distraction listening to an Irish accent, hee hee.

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Kathleen,

Where do you find this " DP Manual " ?

Thanks, Deb in MI

>

> Hi Mike,

>

> I wouldn't wish DP on anyone, but I too feel almost a relief when I see I'm

not the only one who has had this awful condition. THere IS a light at the end

of the tunnel.

>

> Oh, I so hope the new doc can help you get the neurotransmitters straightened

out. T3 is necessary for making serotonin as well, which is probably why it

helps with depression or is used to " augment " SSRIs. But if your brain can't

make serotonin (or whatever other neurotransmitters you need) anyway, you still

need to help it out! I think you will feel tons better once you address this in

addition to the adrenals and thyroid.

>

> Yes, an IV of pred would certainly be more than the HC you're taking right

now, lol. ;-) I am sure Val can help you get onto a proper dose of HC and you

can always back down after you've built reserves if you feel you need to. I

think sometimes if you put yourself into the ground with too little for a while,

then one might need a bit more briefly. At any rate, your dose is not much for a

man at all, so need to worry about taking more and as I said yesterday, I'd

rather be on HC for life, no matter the dose, than have DP!!! :-))

>

> BTW, do check out " DP Manual " . It helped me so much and is cheap! Plus it's

sort of a nice distraction listening to an Irish accent, hee hee.

>

> Kathleen

>