Re: T4 to T3 conversion and Soy

[Guest guest]

To answer point 1, I believe there was a study done in the 1950s on babies who were not able to drink cow's milk. They were given soy milk and many of them developed goiter! I have also read that Ohio or Illinois state penitentiary was giving soy meat to it's inmates. Apparently the rate of cancer and other illness was very high in that prison. It was implied that the soy was causing thyroid problems and that this in turn was leading to other endocrine problems. The governor of the state was a guy called Blagovic (or something like that) who I saw made the news for supposedly putting up Obama's senatorial seat to the highest bidder! He had something to do with the choice of food the inmates were getting, if I remember

rightly. Of course, this could be political back stabbing. I'm not sure that the motives attributed to Blagovic are truthful, but the fact is that the inmates were being fed soya. and it was making them ill. I believe there was even an on-line petition to sign attached to this article.

Sorry I don't have time to put up the links but it should be pretty easy to find the articles using google, particularly the first one about the baby milk.

MacGilchrist

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 3:35:49Subject: T4 to T3 conversion and Soy

Hi all,Quick question to anyone who can answer...I hear there is a lot of debate as to whether soy is bad for the thyroid.1) I understand there is no human study showing soy is bad for the thyroid.2) I understand that if soy is fermented... all of any thyroid pro-goitrogens are nullifiedHaving said this... I have a company who claims that many people have gone off their thyroid medication - including Hashimotos' patients like myself - with their Energizing Soy Protein drink that has all of the pro-goitrogens REMOVED.Is there anyone here who still would stay away from soy with the above known information (and if you would... please let me know what info you have...)Thank you!

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>Quick question to anyone who can answer...

Sorry, long answer: your premises need close investigation.

>I hear there is a lot of debate as to whether soy is

> bad for the thyroid.

Debate? Only between the soy producers/sellers and educated people...

>1) I understand there is no human study showing

>soy is bad for the thyroid.

From whom do you understand it? Have you actually done any research to see if

there are? I haven't time to go look -- but there is a preponderance of, at the

very least, anecdotal evidence from thyroid sufferers that when they quit soy,

they had better luck healing their thyroids. There is no question that soy is

full of goitrogens -- and the likelihood is, (without me having time doing any

research on the medical literature) that if soy has goitrogens, it's probably

bad for people with thyroid problems, yes? What more do you need? Why are you

trying to find a way to continue eating/drinking a substance that is

questionable across the board?

>2) I understand that if soy is fermented... all of any

>thyroid pro-goitrogens are nullified

SOME are nullified. By no means all. And why do you wish to risk it? What is

the draw toward soy, when most of the literature -- animal and human -- suggests

soy is not healthy? You cannot get NON-genetically modified soy; pretty much

no one grows it anymore. Do you really think ingesting Monsanto's " Roundup

Ready Soy " is a good idea?! (After all, Monsanto is quite interested in

your health, aren't they? NOT!)

>Having said this... I have a company who claims that many

>people have gone off their thyroid medication - including

>Hashimotos' patients like myself - with their Energizing

>Soy Protein drink that has all of the pro-goitrogens REMOVED.

And they're selling you what? They want you to buy what from them? Are you

reading their advertisements and thinking they're looking out for your health?!

You must consider the source when someone is trying to convince you of

something! Yes, that includes me -- but I have nothing to gain from telling you

information that conflicts with these folks who are trying to sell you soy

protein drink!

>Is there anyone here who still would stay away from soy with

> the above known information (and if you would... please let me

>know what info you have...)

You say it's " known information " -- known by whom? Where are your studies saying

it's not causing all the damage we see in all the studies? One cannot prove a

negative, but the preponderance of the evidence says soy is very bad for humans.

I absolutely stay away from soy to the maximum extent I can -- and suggest you

do as well! (Why do I get a sneaking suspicion that you work for this company,

and are trying to see what reactions you get from the people you, also, hope to

sell soy protein drink to?)

Below, I've pulled just some paragraphs from a long article here:

http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm. I always take Dr Mercola's

stuff with a grain of salt (Celtic sea salt only!), but this article isn't

written by him, and it's referenced like crazy (and I trust Dr. Enig and

Susie Fallon).

These are the journals that are referenced in *just* the paragraphs I've posted

here: ALL these studies are in humans. Notice especially, the paragraph

referencing number 51 -- the (bad) thyroid effects seen in humans. (Obviously

all the references are available at the end of the actual article.)

Nutrition and Cancer

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

Journal of the American Dietetic Association

Nippon Naibunpi Gakkai Zasshi

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

Bulletin de L'Office Fédéral de la Santé Publique

Plenary Session #8: Cognitive Function, The Third International Soy Symposium

From the article:

======================

....

Additionally 99% a very large percentage of soy is genetically modified and it

also has one of the highest percentages contamination by pesticides of any of

our foods.

Soybeans are high in phytic acid, present in the bran or hulls of all seeds.

It's a substance that can block the uptake of essential minerals - calcium,

magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc - in the intestinal tract.

Although not a household word, phytic acid has been extensively studied; there

are literally hundreds of articles on the effects of phytic acid in the current

scientific literature. Scientists are in general agreement that grain- and

legume-based diets high in phytates contribute to widespread mineral

deficiencies in third world countries.15

....

In 1991, Japanese researchers reported that consumption of as little as 30 grams

or two tablespoons of soybeans per day for only one month resulted in a

significant increase in thyroid-stimulating hormone.49

....

Twenty-five grams of soy protein isolate, the minimum amount PTI claimed to have

cholesterol-lowering effects, contains from 50 to 70 mg of isoflavones. It took

only 45 mg of isoflavones in premenopausal women to exert significant biological

effects, including a reduction in hormones needed for adequate thyroid function.

These effects lingered for three months after soy consumption was

discontinued.51

....

In 1992, the Swiss health service estimated that 100 grams of soy protein

provided the estrogenic equivalent of the Pill.53

....

In 1998, investigators reported that the daily exposure of infants to

isoflavones in soy infant formula is 6 to 11 times higher on a body-weight basis

than the dose that has hormonal effects in adults consuming soy foods.

Circulating concentrations of isoflavones in infants fed soy-based formula were

13,000 to 22,000 times higher than plasma estradiol concentrations in infants on

cow's milk formula.57

....

Dr Lon White reported on a study of Japanese Americans living in Hawaii, that

showed a significant statistical relationship between two or more servings of

tofu a week and " accelerated brain aging " .64

....

======================

Shomon, very well known in the thyroid circles writes the following in her

article: " Soy and the Thyroid The Controversy Over Soy and Thyroid Health. "

(She, too, has a long list of references of medical studies *in humans*!)

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/soyinfo/a/soy.htm

==================

....

It's also troubling to note that the author of this study -- and several other

recent studies claiming soy is not a danger to the thyroid, is Mark Messina,

PhD. Messina, though not a medical doctor, also goes by the name " Dr. Soy. "

Messina had been in charge of grant funding at the National Institutes of Health

(NIH), where he oversaw a $3 million grant for soy studies. Soon after he left

NIH, he was hired to serve on the scientific advisory boards of both the United

Soybean Board, and international soy agribusiness Archer s Midland. He

still serves on both scientific advisory boards as a paid advisor. In addition

to his work on these advisory boards, Messina is a consultant to the United

Soybean Board and editor of its soy-related newsletter, and serves as a paid

speaker and consultant to promote the positive benefits of soy for the United

Soybean Board's " Soy Connection. " . Messina has also published a number of books

promoting soy. The " Political Friendster " website, which tracks corporate

influence, has documented the close relationship between Messina and the various

corporate players in the soy industry.

So, is the study accurate? Honestly, it's impossible to say at this point. There

is a clear ethical and financial conflict of interest in commissioning research

on soy's safety from someone who is a longstanding representative of, and who is

lucratively employed by, the soy industry itself.

....

==================

Finally, here's another Shomon article: " Do Soy Foods Negatively Affect

Your Thyroid? A Look at the Downsides of Soy "

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/soydangers.htm

So, there are your studies in humans showing soy is bad -- and that's with just

a few minutes googling, because I don't have time to actually go find you a

boatload of studies in humans!

Soy is BAD for human health. Soy is NOT a human food. Don't believe

advertisements wishing to sell you a product and asking you to 'ignore the man

behind the curtain'!!

Sorry to y'all that this is so long... but really...

Elenor

[Guest guest]

Hi, not sure of the in's and out's of this one but can only tell of my own experience:-I was diagnosed with a goitre some 19 years ago, was monitored annually via blood tests on the hospital thyroid register - received no treatment at all, then in 2002 my goitre had got so big it was time that it and me had to part company - then my hell on LevoT started - but that is a long story - suffice to say I am now on Erfa NDT and doing well thank you.BUT, in all the years of having my goitre, I WAS taking soy milk - every day on my breakfast cereal and for drinks - no one ever told me to avoid it - now I know differently.My daughter who is 34 was diagnosed with a goitre in January this year and is not yet receiving any treatment, but, I am sending her all the info I have gleaned from these fabulous informative web forums - THANK YOU - and told her to keep all this for future reference - she will NEED it!! And to AVOID all soy products - just to be on the safe side - she needs to keep herself and her thyroid as healthy as possible. Carol K in Thailand

Hi all,Quick question to anyone who can answer...I hear there is a lot of debate as to whether soy is bad for the thyroid.1) I understand there is no human study showing soy is bad for the thyroid.2) I understand that if soy is fermented... all of any thyroid pro-goitrogens are nullifiedHaving said this... I have a company who claims that many people have gone off their thyroid medication - including Hashimotos' patients like myself - with their Energizing Soy Protein drink that has all of the pro-goitrogens REMOVED.Is there anyone here who still would stay away from soy with the above known information (and if you would... please let me know what info you have...)Thank you!

[Guest guest]

You know what else is interesting and this reflects on both IODINE and SOY is

that Hashi's was discovered in Japan and as far as I knowk, they still have the

highest rates of Hashi's in the world.

Kathleen

> > >Quick question to anyone who can answer...

> >

> > Sorry, long answer: your premises need close investigation.

> >

> > >I hear there is a lot of debate as to whether soy is

> > > bad for the thyroid.

> >

> > Debate? Only between the soy producers/sellers and educated people...

> >

> >

> > >1) I understand there is no human study showing

> > >soy is bad for the thyroid.

> >

> > From whom do you understand it? Have you actually done any research to see

if there are? I haven't time to go look -- but there is a preponderance of, at

the very least, anecdotal evidence from thyroid sufferers that when they quit

soy, they had better luck healing their thyroids. There is no question that soy

is full of goitrogens -- and the likelihood is, (without me having time doing

any research on the medical literature) that if soy has goitrogens, it's

probably bad for people with thyroid problems, yes? What more do you need? Why

are you trying to find a way to continue eating/drinking a substance that is

questionable across the board?

> >

> >

> > >2) I understand that if soy is fermented... all of any

> > >thyroid pro-goitrogens are nullified

> >

> > SOME are nullified. By no means all. And why do you wish to risk it? What

is the draw toward soy, when most of the literature -- animal and human --

suggests soy is not healthy? You cannot get NON-genetically modified soy;

pretty much no one grows it anymore. Do you really think ingesting Monsanto's

" Roundup Ready Soy " is a good idea?! (After all, Monsanto is quite

interested in your health, aren't they? NOT!)

> >

> > >Having said this... I have a company who claims that many

> > >people have gone off their thyroid medication - including

> > >Hashimotos' patients like myself - with their Energizing

> > >Soy Protein drink that has all of the pro-goitrogens REMOVED.

> >

> > And they're selling you what? They want you to buy what from them? Are you

reading their advertisements and thinking they're looking out for your health?!

You must consider the source when someone is trying to convince you of

something! Yes, that includes me -- but I have nothing to gain from telling you

information that conflicts with these folks who are trying to sell you soy

protein drink!

> >

> >

> > >Is there anyone here who still would stay away from soy with

> > > the above known information (and if you would... please let me

> > >know what info you have...)

> >

> > You say it's " known information " -- known by whom? Where are your studies

saying it's not causing all the damage we see in all the studies? One cannot

prove a negative, but the preponderance of the evidence says soy is very bad for

humans. I absolutely stay away from soy to the maximum extent I can -- and

suggest you do as well! (Why do I get a sneaking suspicion that you work for

this company, and are trying to see what reactions you get from the people you,

also, hope to sell soy protein drink to?)

> >

> > Below, I've pulled just some paragraphs from a long article here:

http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm. I always take Dr Mercola's

stuff with a grain of salt (Celtic sea salt only!), but this article isn't

written by him, and it's referenced like crazy (and I trust Dr. Enig and

Susie Fallon).

> >

> > These are the journals that are referenced in *just* the paragraphs I've

posted here: ALL these studies are in humans. Notice especially, the paragraph

referencing number 51 -- the (bad) thyroid effects seen in humans. (Obviously

all the references are available at the end of the actual article.)

> >

> > Nutrition and Cancer

> > American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

> > Journal of the American Dietetic Association

> > Nippon Naibunpi Gakkai Zasshi

> > American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

> > Bulletin de L'Office Fédéral de la Santé Publique

> > Plenary Session #8: Cognitive Function, The Third International Soy

Symposium

> >

> > From the article:

> > ======================

> > ...

> > Additionally 99% a very large percentage of soy is genetically modified and

it also has one of the highest percentages contamination by pesticides of any of

our foods.

> >

> > Soybeans are high in phytic acid, present in the bran or hulls of all seeds.

It's a substance that can block the uptake of essential minerals - calcium,

magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc - in the intestinal tract.

> >

> > Although not a household word, phytic acid has been extensively studied;

there are literally hundreds of articles on the effects of phytic acid in the

current scientific literature. Scientists are in general agreement that grain-

and legume-based diets high in phytates contribute to widespread mineral

deficiencies in third world countries.15

> > ...

> > In 1991, Japanese researchers reported that consumption of as little as 30

grams or two tablespoons of soybeans per day for only one month resulted in a

significant increase in thyroid-stimulating hormone.49

> > ...

> > Twenty-five grams of soy protein isolate, the minimum amount PTI claimed to

have cholesterol-lowering effects, contains from 50 to 70 mg of isoflavones. It

took only 45 mg of isoflavones in premenopausal women to exert significant

biological effects, including a reduction in hormones needed for adequate

thyroid function. These effects lingered for three months after soy consumption

was discontinued.51

> > ...

> > In 1992, the Swiss health service estimated that 100 grams of soy protein

provided the estrogenic equivalent of the Pill.53

> > ...

> > In 1998, investigators reported that the daily exposure of infants to

isoflavones in soy infant formula is 6 to 11 times higher on a body-weight basis

than the dose that has hormonal effects in adults consuming soy foods.

Circulating concentrations of isoflavones in infants fed soy-based formula were

13,000 to 22,000 times higher than plasma estradiol concentrations in infants on

cow's milk formula.57

> > ...

> > Dr Lon White reported on a study of Japanese Americans living in Hawaii,

that showed a significant statistical relationship between two or more servings

of tofu a week and " accelerated brain aging " .64

> > ...

> > ======================

> >

> >

> > Shomon, very well known in the thyroid circles writes the following in

her article: " Soy and the Thyroid The Controversy Over Soy and Thyroid Health. "

(She, too, has a long list of references of medical studies *in humans*!)

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/soyinfo/a/soy.htm

> > ==================

> > ...

> > It's also troubling to note that the author of this study -- and several

other recent studies claiming soy is not a danger to the thyroid, is Mark

Messina, PhD. Messina, though not a medical doctor, also goes by the name " Dr.

Soy. " Messina had been in charge of grant funding at the National Institutes of

Health (NIH), where he oversaw a $3 million grant for soy studies. Soon after he

left NIH, he was hired to serve on the scientific advisory boards of both the

United Soybean Board, and international soy agribusiness Archer s Midland.

He still serves on both scientific advisory boards as a paid advisor. In

addition to his work on these advisory boards, Messina is a consultant to the

United Soybean Board and editor of its soy-related newsletter, and serves as a

paid speaker and consultant to promote the positive benefits of soy for the

United Soybean Board's " Soy Connection. " . Messina has also published a number of

books promoting soy. The " Political Friendster " website, which tracks corporate

influence, has documented the close relationship between Messina and the various

corporate players in the soy industry.

> >

> > So, is the study accurate? Honestly, it's impossible to say at this point.

There is a clear ethical and financial conflict of interest in commissioning

research on soy's safety from someone who is a longstanding representative of,

and who is lucratively employed by, the soy industry itself.

> > ...

> > ==================

> >

> > Finally, here's another Shomon article: " Do Soy Foods Negatively Affect

Your Thyroid? A Look at the Downsides of Soy "

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/soydangers.htm

> >

> > So, there are your studies in humans showing soy is bad -- and that's with

just a few minutes googling, because I don't have time to actually go find you a

boatload of studies in humans!

> >

> > Soy is BAD for human health. Soy is NOT a human food. Don't believe

advertisements wishing to sell you a product and asking you to 'ignore the man

behind the curtain'!!

> >

> > Sorry to y'all that this is so long... but really...

> >

> > Elenor

> >

>