RE: / Re: Hybrid? Bastard child? Uniqueness, continued.....

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/22/01 6:08:25 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<< I know you are mad and upset that you were not able to have the

surgery you wanted. Just the same as one of Dr Gagner's patients

ended up with a kind of RNY because of problems with the surgery.

Problems happen. And I am sorry as can be that you had one and that

Dr Ren does not recognize it as a problem. She is probably glad that

you are not one of the 1% that die on the operating table. All these

surgeons you contacted, did they tell you how their patients died?

>>

nancy: There is a difference here and I beg to differ. Sandy Kane, the

person I think you were referring to who got an RNY instead of a BPD/DS with

Dr. Gagner was FULLY informed that this was a distinct possibility BEFORE the

surgery. Dr. Gagner knew of her previous surgeries and told her that he may

have to do an RNY because of excessive scar tissue, etc.

Now, there may have been others this has happened to, but I would hope that

they would have been informed beforehand of this possibility. I'm sure they

would still be quite dissapointed afterwards but at least they were aware

that it could happen.

Yes, emergencies happen in surgeries. Yes, they do happen to all surgeons,

although 'rates' may differ. However, from ALL my reading and experience

(albeit limited as I would never claim to be an expert), I have NEVER heard

of a patient getting a BPD instead of a BPD/DS due to any complications which

occured in surgery?????

The only other incidence that resembles this was the Dr. (in Kansas? I can't

totally remember) who told patients they were getting a BPD/DS, but then

finally admitted (under much questioning from two pre-ops in our group) that

he does the BPD and does not leave the pylorus functioning. His response was

similarly echoed as 'what do you need that for anyway? It's much too

overrated' or something to that effect....

This was never discussed as any kind of option should things go 'wrong' in

the OR in my case. Has this been discussed with others pre-operatively? I'm

extremely curious!

Of course, Deborah is shocked and upset - I think anyone would be. However,

the point that I got from her explanation was that she NEVER anticipated nor

was informed that such an event could happen as a possibility. That's what I

find unnerving, IMHO.

all the best,

laparoscopic BPD/DS with gallbladder removal

Dr. Gagner/Dr. Quinn/Mt. Sinai/NYC

January 25, 2001

[Guest guest]

>>> Of course, Deborah is shocked and upset - I think anyone would be.

However,

the point that I got from her explanation was that she NEVER anticipated nor

was informed that such an event could happen as a possibility. That's what

I

find unnerving, IMHO.<<<

It seems to me that Deb's main point is not that it happened -- since it

seems that she understands that unpredictable things can occur -- but that

it seemed to her that she didn't get a straight story after the fact. I

would also be very upset if I didn't get the surgery I intended, but my

reaction to that would be tempered in large degree based on how forthcoming

my surgeon was with me, and whether I was convinced that my situation indeed

compelled the action that was taken in the OR. Deb's view of things is

admittedly subjective, but the fact that she hasn't gotten any emotional

closure on this is something that shouldn't be swept aside. For whatever

reason, Deb didn't feel nurtured by Dr. Ren. Maybe it's a failure of

communication; I would hope that ultimately, the doctor would be willing to

frankly discuss everything that happened. Absent that, I can understand

Deb's feelings. I also understand the feelings of other patients who have

had good experiences with the doc. They naturally want to defend her. We

have an emotional investment in our surgeon -- they are our lifesaver in

many ways. Maybe this is an issue where Deb and can agree to disagree.

Deb is entitled to her pain; is entitled to be supportive of Dr. Ren.

I do feel that the hashing out of feelings and perceptions between and

Deb should go private at this point. The larger issue of wanting to find

truth is certainly appropriate here, as long as things are presented in a

factual, non-inflammatory manner that avoids defamatory remarks.

M.

---

in Fremont, CA, age 38

Starting weight 299, now 161

Starting BMI 49.7, now 26.8

Lap DGB/DS by Dr. Rabkin 10-19-99

http://www.duodenalswitch.com

Direct replies: mailto:melanie@...

[Guest guest]

same here!! and very well said, I might add!! We are here for you Deb!!

Keep us informed okay? We care about you!

Thanks for saying this so well, and with such class!

Love,

Loriann

Re: " " / Re: Hybrid? Bastard child?

Uniqueness, continued.....

In a message dated 2/22/01 6:08:25 PM, duodenalswitch

writes:

<< I know you are mad and upset that you were not able to have the

surgery you wanted. Just the same as one of Dr Gagner's patients

ended up with a kind of RNY because of problems with the surgery.

Problems happen. And I am sorry as can be that you had one and that

Dr Ren does not recognize it as a problem. She is probably glad that

you are not one of the 1% that die on the operating table. All these

surgeons you contacted, did they tell you how their patients died?

>>

nancy: There is a difference here and I beg to differ. Sandy Kane, the

person I think you were referring to who got an RNY instead of a BPD/DS with

Dr. Gagner was FULLY informed that this was a distinct possibility BEFORE

the

surgery. Dr. Gagner knew of her previous surgeries and told her that he may

have to do an RNY because of excessive scar tissue, etc.

Now, there may have been others this has happened to, but I would hope that

they would have been informed beforehand of this possibility. I'm sure they

would still be quite dissapointed afterwards but at least they were aware

that it could happen.

Yes, emergencies happen in surgeries. Yes, they do happen to all surgeons,

although 'rates' may differ. However, from ALL my reading and experience

(albeit limited as I would never claim to be an expert), I have NEVER heard

of a patient getting a BPD instead of a BPD/DS due to any complications

which

occured in surgery?????

The only other incidence that resembles this was the Dr. (in Kansas? I

can't

totally remember) who told patients they were getting a BPD/DS, but then

finally admitted (under much questioning from two pre-ops in our group) that

he does the BPD and does not leave the pylorus functioning. His response

was

similarly echoed as 'what do you need that for anyway? It's much too

overrated' or something to that effect....

This was never discussed as any kind of option should things go 'wrong' in

the OR in my case. Has this been discussed with others pre-operatively?

I'm

extremely curious!

Of course, Deborah is shocked and upset - I think anyone would be. However,

the point that I got from her explanation was that she NEVER anticipated nor

was informed that such an event could happen as a possibility. That's what

I

find unnerving, IMHO.

all the best,

laparoscopic BPD/DS with gallbladder removal

Dr. Gagner/Dr. Quinn/Mt. Sinai/NYC

January 25, 2001