Guest guest Posted May 9, 2010 Report Share Posted May 9, 2010 Yes! My experience was nearly the same... They are so pushy on the supplements. One thing that also happened to me ... I had left a credit card on file for future refills on medications and supplements (I live in Chicago). I should note that I didnt use that credit card for anything other than Holtorf clinic.. well I got a phone call from my credit card company that someone used my credit card info and purchased an airline ticket using a travel company in India. I had not lost my credit card.. I still had it with me. I called Holtorf and they were sure that no one from their clinic would have done that... but again.. I didnt use the credit card anywhere but Holtorf. I also was very disappointed in the amount of coverage my insurance provided with Holtorf bills... very little... once they asked for more information from Holtorf... Holtorf claimed they never received the mailing asking for more info... Yeah right. The only thing I can credit Holtorf dr with is pointing me in right direction for the diagnosis of RT 3... as for adrenal issues.. he never ordered saliva tests, but he did load me up on all the supplements for adreal issues... never the hydrocortisone. Laurie Subject: Re: Holtorf ClinicTo: RT3_T3 Date: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 12:34 AM Re: Holtorf ClinicI have to weigh in on this.I began as a patient there within the last year.First off, from what I know I feel like the poster that says Dr. Holtorf knows hisstuff is 100% correct. But he isn't seeing new patients.In my opinion, the doctor I saw was provided a fair at best experience so far.He did not listen to me on some critical issues. At least one thing he told me,directly contradicted what is published on the Holtorf website and on handoutsin the lobby. I pointed that out to him. I don't think he liked it but it causedhim to change my treatment.The initial office visit was over an hour. A general wellness check by a nurse,an hour or so with the doc and some in office tests. They have three tests thateveryone seems to get run through on their first visit--- some sort of metabolicrate test, urine iodine test, and an reflex test for thyroid. The doctor orderedover 20 lab tests on this visit.They seem to have a bag of tricks which are a bit different than other HRT/ antiaging clinics I have read about.They use HGH, time release T3, time release Hydrocortisone, Welbutrin/Nalrexonecombo for weight loss, HCG for weight loss and Byetta or Symlin for leptin/weighloss issues.I learned male patients are sometimes prescribed Nondralone(sp? )in addition toTestosterone. Apparently, Nondralone(sp? ) is unusual to be prescribed in HRT.Also, they give guys progesterone.They push push push their proprietary supplements. In my case the repeated pushmade me VERY uncomfortable. The doctor must get a cut of the supplements sold.He acted like a used car sales person with the supplements. DId I mention he waspushy? I walked out of the office with about $500 in monthly supplements. On myfollowup I battled and just refused some. He wasn't happy. It's so manysupplements, how do I know what's working? Some non proprietary supplements wererecommended and I have gotten them elsewhereAnother issue is their compounding pharmacy. There is a sign in the lobbypointing out that you may have your prescriptions filled anywhere. Since I Iivewhat is over 5 hours traveling time away and have a great compounding pharmacy10 minutes away, I asked that my prescriptions be filled there. The doctor toldme that wasn't an option on one or two. These happen to be the most expensive. Ichecked with the local compounding pharmacy and a cursory comparison showed thelocal compounder was around 40% lower than Holtorf. Please give me ideas on howto handle this if you have them.They also pushed their IV therapy. Sorry I don't remember the details. But I hadit. Couple of hours worth of drips. Can't say it did anything one way or theother.As for costs (in round numbers), my first visit was about $700 for the doctorplus $500 in supplements plus about $600 in compounded scrips plus $400 in inoffice tests and IV. That's over $2000. The original labs were another $2000 Irecall.My second consultation was about an hour. On this visit we discussed my labs andhe tweaked my meds and ordered more labs. This was probably about an hour. $700for consultation and compounded meds and after a battle fewer supplements. Theadded scrips were not compounded and I got them locally.My third consultation was about 30 minutes. Same format as second consultation.Tweaked the meds and ordered labs to be done before my next consultation.$300ish for the doctors time. I can't put my hands on the supplement/compound ingamounts at this moment but it was substantially less due to "encouragement" frommy bottom line oriented spouse.Next appointment mid summer.Am I better? Yes. To what degree is the question.My initial complaints were weight, poor sleep, fatigue and some sexual issues.I was diagnosed as hypothyroid, adrenal issues, and leptin resistant. No causewas defined yet for my sexual issues.I'm sleeping better. Still tired but maybe not as much. No significant weightloss. Sexual issues persist.Since my spouse is a numbers guru, I'll say I'm 25% there.They are really expensive (at least by my standards and we're not poor). Thesupplement pushing is very annoying. The compounding issue angers me. Insurancereimbursement has not been what I would have hoped.The nurses I dealt with were superior. Both caring and excellent. With regard tothe office staff, they are like any other business. Some seem real good. Someseem not good.I think if there was a way to separate the medical care from the purely profitdriven appearance of this practice, they would have earned a mild thumbs up sofar. HOWEVER, the "let's gouge the patient" feeling I have gotten at almostevery turn may be too much for them too overcome.Here's hoping for significant improvement in the coming months. I plan onstaying the course through my year anniversary but I must see more light at theend on the tunnel.Forgive the length but I wish I had known all this 9 months ago. I may or maynot have made the same decision to see Holtorf Clinic but I would have been muchmore prepared when I walked through their door.Hope this helps someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2010 Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 > >I wonder what happened to my reply to this post?? I saw Dr. Koftan and didn't have the same awful experiences the others here have had. Glad to hear a positive response from someone Thanks for that Nick -- for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to www.thyroid-rt3.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Have ask if anyone had to sign a waiver that would release them from being medically responsible??? RED FLAG!!! I had several red flags with this company..... Re: Holtorf Clinic I have to weigh in on this. I began as a patient there within the last year.First off, from what I know I think the poster that says Dr. Holtorf knows his stuff is 100% correct. But he isn't seeing new patients.In my opinion, the doctor I saw was provided a fair at best experience so far. He did not listen to me on some critical issues. At least one thing he told me, directly contradicted what is published on the Holtorf website and on handouts in the lobby. I pointed that out to him. I don't think he liked it but it caused him to change my treatment.The initial office visit was over an hour. A general wellness check by a nurse, an hour or so with the doc and some in office tests. They have three tests that everyone seems to get run through on their first visit--- some sort of metabolic rate test, urine iodine test, and an reflex test for thyroid. The doctor ordered over 20 lab tests on this visit.They seem to have a bag of tricks which are a bit different than other HRT/ anti aging clinics I have read about.They use HGH, time release T3, time release Hydrocortisone, Welbutrin/Nalrexone combo for weight loss, HCG for weight loss and Byetta or Symlin for leptin/weigh loss issues.I learned male patients are sometimes prescribed Nondralone(sp? )in addition to Testosterone. Apparently, Nondralone(sp?) is unusual to be prescribed in HRT. Also, they give guys progesterone.They push push push their proprietary supplements. In my case the repeated push made me VERY uncomfortable. The doctor must get a cut of the supplements sold. He acted like a used car sales person with the supplements. DId I mention he was pushy? I walked out of the office with about $500 in monthly supplements. On my followup I battled and just refused some. He wasn't happy. It's so many supplements, how do I know what's working? Some non proprietary supplements were recommended and I have gotten them elsewhereAnother issue is their compounding pharmacy. There is a sign in the lobby pointing out that you may have your prescriptions filled anywhere. Since I Iive what is over 5 hours traveling time away and have a great compounding pharmacy 10 minutes away, I asked that my prescriptions be filled there. The doctor told me that wasn't an option on one or two. These happen to be the most expensive. I checked with the local compounding pharmacy and a cursory comparison showed the local compounder was around 40% lower than Holtorf. Please give me ideas on how to handle this if you have them.They also pushed their IV therapy. Sorry I don't remember the details. But I had it. Couple of hours worth of drips. Can't say it did anything one way or the other.As for costs (in round numbers), my first visit was about $700 for the doctor plus $500 in supplements plus about $600 in compounded scrips plus $400 in in office tests and IV. That's over $2000. The original labs were another $2000 I recall.My second consultation was about an hour. On this visit we discussed my labs and he tweaked my meds and ordered more labs. This was probably about an hour. $700 for consultation and compounded meds and after a battle fewer supplements. The added scrips were not compounded and I got them locally.My third consultation was about 30 minutes. Same format as second consultation. Tweaked the meds and ordered labs to be done before my next consultation. $300ish for the doctors time. I can't put my hands on the supplement/compounding amounts at this moment but it was substantially less due to "encouragement" from my bottom line oriented spouse.Next appointment mid summer.Am I better? Yes. To what degree is the question. My initial complaints were weight, poor sleep, fatigue and some sexual issues.I was diagnosed as hypothyroid, adrenal issues, and leptin resistant. No cause was defined yet for my sexual issues.I'm sleeping better. Still tired but maybe not as much. No significant weight loss. Sexual issues persist.Since my spouse is a numbers guru, I'll say I'm 25% there.They are really expensive (at least by my standards and we're not poor). The supplement pushing is very annoying. The compounding issue angers me. Insurance reimbursement has not been what I would have hoped.The nurses I dealt with were superior. Both caring and excellent. With regard to the office staff, they are like any other business. Some seem real good. Some seem not good.I think if there was a way to separate the medical care from the purely profit driven appearance of this practice, they would have earned a mild thumbs up so far. HOWEVER, the "let's gouge the patient" feeling I have gotten at almost every turn may be too much for them too overcome. Here's hoping for significant improvement in the coming months. I plan on staying the course through my year anniversary but I must see more light at the end on the tunnel.Forgive the length but I wish I had known all this 9 months ago. I may or may not have made the same decision to see Holtorf Clinic but I would have been much more prepared when I walked through their door. Hope this helps someone.__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5110 (20100512) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5110 (20100512) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Have ask if anyone had to sign a waiver that would release them from being medically responsible??? RED FLAG!!! I had several red flags with this company..... Re: Holtorf Clinic I have to weigh in on this. I began as a patient there within the last year.First off, from what I know I think the poster that says Dr. Holtorf knows his stuff is 100% correct. But he isn't seeing new patients.In my opinion, the doctor I saw was provided a fair at best experience so far. He did not listen to me on some critical issues. At least one thing he told me, directly contradicted what is published on the Holtorf website and on handouts in the lobby. I pointed that out to him. I don't think he liked it but it caused him to change my treatment.The initial office visit was over an hour. A general wellness check by a nurse, an hour or so with the doc and some in office tests. They have three tests that everyone seems to get run through on their first visit--- some sort of metabolic rate test, urine iodine test, and an reflex test for thyroid. The doctor ordered over 20 lab tests on this visit.They seem to have a bag of tricks which are a bit different than other HRT/ anti aging clinics I have read about.They use HGH, time release T3, time release Hydrocortisone, Welbutrin/Nalrexone combo for weight loss, HCG for weight loss and Byetta or Symlin for leptin/weigh loss issues.I learned male patients are sometimes prescribed Nondralone(sp? )in addition to Testosterone. Apparently, Nondralone(sp?) is unusual to be prescribed in HRT. Also, they give guys progesterone.They push push push their proprietary supplements. In my case the repeated push made me VERY uncomfortable. The doctor must get a cut of the supplements sold. He acted like a used car sales person with the supplements. DId I mention he was pushy? I walked out of the office with about $500 in monthly supplements. On my followup I battled and just refused some. He wasn't happy. It's so many supplements, how do I know what's working? Some non proprietary supplements were recommended and I have gotten them elsewhereAnother issue is their compounding pharmacy. There is a sign in the lobby pointing out that you may have your prescriptions filled anywhere. Since I Iive what is over 5 hours traveling time away and have a great compounding pharmacy 10 minutes away, I asked that my prescriptions be filled there. The doctor told me that wasn't an option on one or two. These happen to be the most expensive. I checked with the local compounding pharmacy and a cursory comparison showed the local compounder was around 40% lower than Holtorf. Please give me ideas on how to handle this if you have them.They also pushed their IV therapy. Sorry I don't remember the details. But I had it. Couple of hours worth of drips. Can't say it did anything one way or the other.As for costs (in round numbers), my first visit was about $700 for the doctor plus $500 in supplements plus about $600 in compounded scrips plus $400 in in office tests and IV. That's over $2000. The original labs were another $2000 I recall.My second consultation was about an hour. On this visit we discussed my labs and he tweaked my meds and ordered more labs. This was probably about an hour. $700 for consultation and compounded meds and after a battle fewer supplements. The added scrips were not compounded and I got them locally.My third consultation was about 30 minutes. Same format as second consultation. Tweaked the meds and ordered labs to be done before my next consultation. $300ish for the doctors time. I can't put my hands on the supplement/compounding amounts at this moment but it was substantially less due to "encouragement" from my bottom line oriented spouse.Next appointment mid summer.Am I better? Yes. To what degree is the question. My initial complaints were weight, poor sleep, fatigue and some sexual issues.I was diagnosed as hypothyroid, adrenal issues, and leptin resistant. No cause was defined yet for my sexual issues.I'm sleeping better. Still tired but maybe not as much. No significant weight loss. Sexual issues persist.Since my spouse is a numbers guru, I'll say I'm 25% there.They are really expensive (at least by my standards and we're not poor). The supplement pushing is very annoying. The compounding issue angers me. Insurance reimbursement has not been what I would have hoped.The nurses I dealt with were superior. Both caring and excellent. With regard to the office staff, they are like any other business. Some seem real good. Some seem not good.I think if there was a way to separate the medical care from the purely profit driven appearance of this practice, they would have earned a mild thumbs up so far. HOWEVER, the "let's gouge the patient" feeling I have gotten at almost every turn may be too much for them too overcome. Here's hoping for significant improvement in the coming months. I plan on staying the course through my year anniversary but I must see more light at the end on the tunnel.Forgive the length but I wish I had known all this 9 months ago. I may or may not have made the same decision to see Holtorf Clinic but I would have been much more prepared when I walked through their door. Hope this helps someone.__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5110 (20100512) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5110 (20100512) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Have ask if anyone had to sign a waiver that would release them from being medically responsible??? RED FLAG!!! I had several red flags with this company..... Re: Holtorf Clinic I have to weigh in on this. I began as a patient there within the last year.First off, from what I know I think the poster that says Dr. Holtorf knows his stuff is 100% correct. But he isn't seeing new patients.In my opinion, the doctor I saw was provided a fair at best experience so far. He did not listen to me on some critical issues. At least one thing he told me, directly contradicted what is published on the Holtorf website and on handouts in the lobby. I pointed that out to him. I don't think he liked it but it caused him to change my treatment.The initial office visit was over an hour. A general wellness check by a nurse, an hour or so with the doc and some in office tests. They have three tests that everyone seems to get run through on their first visit--- some sort of metabolic rate test, urine iodine test, and an reflex test for thyroid. The doctor ordered over 20 lab tests on this visit.They seem to have a bag of tricks which are a bit different than other HRT/ anti aging clinics I have read about.They use HGH, time release T3, time release Hydrocortisone, Welbutrin/Nalrexone combo for weight loss, HCG for weight loss and Byetta or Symlin for leptin/weigh loss issues.I learned male patients are sometimes prescribed Nondralone(sp? )in addition to Testosterone. Apparently, Nondralone(sp?) is unusual to be prescribed in HRT. Also, they give guys progesterone.They push push push their proprietary supplements. In my case the repeated push made me VERY uncomfortable. The doctor must get a cut of the supplements sold. He acted like a used car sales person with the supplements. DId I mention he was pushy? I walked out of the office with about $500 in monthly supplements. On my followup I battled and just refused some. He wasn't happy. It's so many supplements, how do I know what's working? Some non proprietary supplements were recommended and I have gotten them elsewhereAnother issue is their compounding pharmacy. There is a sign in the lobby pointing out that you may have your prescriptions filled anywhere. Since I Iive what is over 5 hours traveling time away and have a great compounding pharmacy 10 minutes away, I asked that my prescriptions be filled there. The doctor told me that wasn't an option on one or two. These happen to be the most expensive. I checked with the local compounding pharmacy and a cursory comparison showed the local compounder was around 40% lower than Holtorf. Please give me ideas on how to handle this if you have them.They also pushed their IV therapy. Sorry I don't remember the details. But I had it. Couple of hours worth of drips. Can't say it did anything one way or the other.As for costs (in round numbers), my first visit was about $700 for the doctor plus $500 in supplements plus about $600 in compounded scrips plus $400 in in office tests and IV. That's over $2000. The original labs were another $2000 I recall.My second consultation was about an hour. On this visit we discussed my labs and he tweaked my meds and ordered more labs. This was probably about an hour. $700 for consultation and compounded meds and after a battle fewer supplements. The added scrips were not compounded and I got them locally.My third consultation was about 30 minutes. Same format as second consultation. Tweaked the meds and ordered labs to be done before my next consultation. $300ish for the doctors time. I can't put my hands on the supplement/compounding amounts at this moment but it was substantially less due to "encouragement" from my bottom line oriented spouse.Next appointment mid summer.Am I better? Yes. To what degree is the question. My initial complaints were weight, poor sleep, fatigue and some sexual issues.I was diagnosed as hypothyroid, adrenal issues, and leptin resistant. No cause was defined yet for my sexual issues.I'm sleeping better. Still tired but maybe not as much. No significant weight loss. Sexual issues persist.Since my spouse is a numbers guru, I'll say I'm 25% there.They are really expensive (at least by my standards and we're not poor). The supplement pushing is very annoying. The compounding issue angers me. Insurance reimbursement has not been what I would have hoped.The nurses I dealt with were superior. Both caring and excellent. With regard to the office staff, they are like any other business. Some seem real good. Some seem not good.I think if there was a way to separate the medical care from the purely profit driven appearance of this practice, they would have earned a mild thumbs up so far. HOWEVER, the "let's gouge the patient" feeling I have gotten at almost every turn may be too much for them too overcome. Here's hoping for significant improvement in the coming months. I plan on staying the course through my year anniversary but I must see more light at the end on the tunnel.Forgive the length but I wish I had known all this 9 months ago. I may or may not have made the same decision to see Holtorf Clinic but I would have been much more prepared when I walked through their door. Hope this helps someone.__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5110 (20100512) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5110 (20100512) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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