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Re: Im so tired of these doctors, I dont know what to do now...

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Please don't give up. You already know more than your doctors and will be no

worse off if you treat yourself. I only go to my family practice doctor now,as I

have to have tests ordered by her. Val and everyone on this forum have me

feeling better than all my doctors have done in the last two years. Following a

doctor's instructions got me in adrenal trouble, and the endo I went to was no

better. The " someone else " they mention you should see usually means a

therapist. Going through the usual medical fiascos make you ready to see a

therapist. You will feel better and become empowered to get help that will not

put you through wringer physically and financially..

Pat

Im so tired of these doctors, I dont know what to do

now...

I had my appointment with the doctor yesterday, what a waste of time

(and money). It started out with her coming in with another doctor , I

guess she was in training. She started telling me and reading off to

me that each test was normal, one after another all " normal " .

So when I could get a word in, I started to ask my questions I had

written down. I asked if my sleep /wake schedule could affect my

cortisol testing she told me that it doesnt make a difference its

normal, then I asked isnt it suppose to be done in the a.m.?, she said

it did not matter when it was done.

I said all the things that she " said " that were " normal " are all in

the very low end of the range. I asked about my tests being " inrange "

but still very low,..she said that they are fine and all " normal " .

I asked about my low but " inrange " =

ACTH

TSH

aldosterone

renin

free T-3

ferritin

and my sodium(this was below range)

My sodium she said " was only 1 point below range so it " is fine " . i

asked about Florinef for my low aldosterone , she gave me a pissy

look,so then I asked about raising my armour she said not to do that

because ill go hyper if I do. I told her about my being very cold

during the day (I wear my coat at times) and at night while sleeping

ill sweat , its as if my thermostat is at of wack. I said this happens

at times , but the last two weeks are so it has increased.

So I asked her since all the tests are fine, and nothing is up with my

thyroid-adrenal-pituitary , WHY DO I HAVE ALL THESE HYPO SYMPTOMS ?

why do I feel so crapy most of the time? I said this is her specialty

whats going on with the way I feel?

Her answer was " maybe its not endocrine, maybe I need to see someone

else " . not sure what was ment by that sentence . {WHAT A CLASSIC

ANSWER IT WAS}

She said we tested pretty much everything , I said something about a

GH test, now she is going to schedule to have that done some time

soon. Im going to also call this a.m. and ask if they can also do a

IGF-1 test at the same time, hopefuly she will do that as well.

What do I need to do prepare my self for these tests, I read that I

need to fast for 10 -12 hours, and to avoid arginine, so that means a

few of my supplements are a no no. how long before these tests do I

need to avoid arginine? do I need the IGF-1 test? would the GH test

tell me enough?

Im very tired of the BS that doctors are putting us through, I have

seen about seven or eight doctors in the last nine months( 3 of them

were DOs), its time consuming and expensive. I will probably have to

self treat since a doctor wont take me as an individual and listen to

anything I say. alot of the time I just feel like lying down and

giving up.

thank you very much for reading this, sherie

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2:16 PM

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Please don't give up. You already know more than your doctors and will be no

worse off if you treat yourself. I only go to my family practice doctor now,as I

have to have tests ordered by her. Val and everyone on this forum have me

feeling better than all my doctors have done in the last two years. Following a

doctor's instructions got me in adrenal trouble, and the endo I went to was no

better. The " someone else " they mention you should see usually means a

therapist. Going through the usual medical fiascos make you ready to see a

therapist. You will feel better and become empowered to get help that will not

put you through wringer physically and financially..

Pat

Im so tired of these doctors, I dont know what to do

now...

I had my appointment with the doctor yesterday, what a waste of time

(and money). It started out with her coming in with another doctor , I

guess she was in training. She started telling me and reading off to

me that each test was normal, one after another all " normal " .

So when I could get a word in, I started to ask my questions I had

written down. I asked if my sleep /wake schedule could affect my

cortisol testing she told me that it doesnt make a difference its

normal, then I asked isnt it suppose to be done in the a.m.?, she said

it did not matter when it was done.

I said all the things that she " said " that were " normal " are all in

the very low end of the range. I asked about my tests being " inrange "

but still very low,..she said that they are fine and all " normal " .

I asked about my low but " inrange " =

ACTH

TSH

aldosterone

renin

free T-3

ferritin

and my sodium(this was below range)

My sodium she said " was only 1 point below range so it " is fine " . i

asked about Florinef for my low aldosterone , she gave me a pissy

look,so then I asked about raising my armour she said not to do that

because ill go hyper if I do. I told her about my being very cold

during the day (I wear my coat at times) and at night while sleeping

ill sweat , its as if my thermostat is at of wack. I said this happens

at times , but the last two weeks are so it has increased.

So I asked her since all the tests are fine, and nothing is up with my

thyroid-adrenal-pituitary , WHY DO I HAVE ALL THESE HYPO SYMPTOMS ?

why do I feel so crapy most of the time? I said this is her specialty

whats going on with the way I feel?

Her answer was " maybe its not endocrine, maybe I need to see someone

else " . not sure what was ment by that sentence . {WHAT A CLASSIC

ANSWER IT WAS}

She said we tested pretty much everything , I said something about a

GH test, now she is going to schedule to have that done some time

soon. Im going to also call this a.m. and ask if they can also do a

IGF-1 test at the same time, hopefuly she will do that as well.

What do I need to do prepare my self for these tests, I read that I

need to fast for 10 -12 hours, and to avoid arginine, so that means a

few of my supplements are a no no. how long before these tests do I

need to avoid arginine? do I need the IGF-1 test? would the GH test

tell me enough?

Im very tired of the BS that doctors are putting us through, I have

seen about seven or eight doctors in the last nine months( 3 of them

were DOs), its time consuming and expensive. I will probably have to

self treat since a doctor wont take me as an individual and listen to

anything I say. alot of the time I just feel like lying down and

giving up.

thank you very much for reading this, sherie

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date: 2/16/2008

2:16 PM

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Yes, I've been invited to see a shrink too. Your doctor is lost.

Everybody is in range. If you're at the bottom of the range, that

just means you feel worse than everyone else. I think these doctors

did too much drinking and less studying in med-school.

uralThyroidHormonesADRENALS , " pat " wrote:

>

> Please don't give up. You already know more than your doctors and

will be no worse off if you treat yourself. I only go to my family

practice doctor now,as I have to have tests ordered by her. Val and

everyone on this forum have me feeling better than all my doctors have

done in the last two years. Following a doctor's instructions got me

in adrenal trouble, and the endo I went to was no better. The

" someone else " they mention you should see usually means a therapist.

Going through the usual medical fiascos make you ready to see a

therapist. You will feel better and become empowered to get help that

will not put you through wringer physically and financially..

>

> Pat

> Im so tired of these doctors, I dont know

what to do now...

>

>

> I had my appointment with the doctor yesterday, what a waste of time

> (and money). It started out with her coming in with another doctor , I

> guess she was in training. She started telling me and reading off to

> me that each test was normal, one after another all " normal " .

>

> So when I could get a word in, I started to ask my questions I had

> written down. I asked if my sleep /wake schedule could affect my

> cortisol testing she told me that it doesnt make a difference its

> normal, then I asked isnt it suppose to be done in the a.m.?, she said

> it did not matter when it was done.

> I said all the things that she " said " that were " normal " are all in

> the very low end of the range. I asked about my tests being " inrange "

> but still very low,..she said that they are fine and all " normal " .

>

> I asked about my low but " inrange " =

> ACTH

> TSH

> aldosterone

> renin

> free T-3

> ferritin

> and my sodium(this was below range)

>

> My sodium she said " was only 1 point below range so it " is fine " . i

> asked about Florinef for my low aldosterone , she gave me a pissy

> look,so then I asked about raising my armour she said not to do that

> because ill go hyper if I do. I told her about my being very cold

> during the day (I wear my coat at times) and at night while sleeping

> ill sweat , its as if my thermostat is at of wack. I said this happens

> at times , but the last two weeks are so it has increased.

>

> So I asked her since all the tests are fine, and nothing is up with my

> thyroid-adrenal-pituitary , WHY DO I HAVE ALL THESE HYPO SYMPTOMS ?

> why do I feel so crapy most of the time? I said this is her specialty

> whats going on with the way I feel?

>

> Her answer was " maybe its not endocrine, maybe I need to see someone

> else " . not sure what was ment by that sentence . {WHAT A CLASSIC

> ANSWER IT WAS}

>

> She said we tested pretty much everything , I said something about a

> GH test, now she is going to schedule to have that done some time

> soon. Im going to also call this a.m. and ask if they can also do a

> IGF-1 test at the same time, hopefuly she will do that as well.

>

> What do I need to do prepare my self for these tests, I read that I

> need to fast for 10 -12 hours, and to avoid arginine, so that means a

> few of my supplements are a no no. how long before these tests do I

> need to avoid arginine? do I need the IGF-1 test? would the GH test

> tell me enough?

>

> Im very tired of the BS that doctors are putting us through, I have

> seen about seven or eight doctors in the last nine months( 3 of them

> were DOs), its time consuming and expensive. I will probably have to

> self treat since a doctor wont take me as an individual and listen to

> anything I say. alot of the time I just feel like lying down and

> giving up.

>

> thank you very much for reading this, sherie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date:

2/16/2008 2:16 PM

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Yes, I've been invited to see a shrink too. Your doctor is lost.

Everybody is in range. If you're at the bottom of the range, that

just means you feel worse than everyone else. I think these doctors

did too much drinking and less studying in med-school.

uralThyroidHormonesADRENALS , " pat " wrote:

>

> Please don't give up. You already know more than your doctors and

will be no worse off if you treat yourself. I only go to my family

practice doctor now,as I have to have tests ordered by her. Val and

everyone on this forum have me feeling better than all my doctors have

done in the last two years. Following a doctor's instructions got me

in adrenal trouble, and the endo I went to was no better. The

" someone else " they mention you should see usually means a therapist.

Going through the usual medical fiascos make you ready to see a

therapist. You will feel better and become empowered to get help that

will not put you through wringer physically and financially..

>

> Pat

> Im so tired of these doctors, I dont know

what to do now...

>

>

> I had my appointment with the doctor yesterday, what a waste of time

> (and money). It started out with her coming in with another doctor , I

> guess she was in training. She started telling me and reading off to

> me that each test was normal, one after another all " normal " .

>

> So when I could get a word in, I started to ask my questions I had

> written down. I asked if my sleep /wake schedule could affect my

> cortisol testing she told me that it doesnt make a difference its

> normal, then I asked isnt it suppose to be done in the a.m.?, she said

> it did not matter when it was done.

> I said all the things that she " said " that were " normal " are all in

> the very low end of the range. I asked about my tests being " inrange "

> but still very low,..she said that they are fine and all " normal " .

>

> I asked about my low but " inrange " =

> ACTH

> TSH

> aldosterone

> renin

> free T-3

> ferritin

> and my sodium(this was below range)

>

> My sodium she said " was only 1 point below range so it " is fine " . i

> asked about Florinef for my low aldosterone , she gave me a pissy

> look,so then I asked about raising my armour she said not to do that

> because ill go hyper if I do. I told her about my being very cold

> during the day (I wear my coat at times) and at night while sleeping

> ill sweat , its as if my thermostat is at of wack. I said this happens

> at times , but the last two weeks are so it has increased.

>

> So I asked her since all the tests are fine, and nothing is up with my

> thyroid-adrenal-pituitary , WHY DO I HAVE ALL THESE HYPO SYMPTOMS ?

> why do I feel so crapy most of the time? I said this is her specialty

> whats going on with the way I feel?

>

> Her answer was " maybe its not endocrine, maybe I need to see someone

> else " . not sure what was ment by that sentence . {WHAT A CLASSIC

> ANSWER IT WAS}

>

> She said we tested pretty much everything , I said something about a

> GH test, now she is going to schedule to have that done some time

> soon. Im going to also call this a.m. and ask if they can also do a

> IGF-1 test at the same time, hopefuly she will do that as well.

>

> What do I need to do prepare my self for these tests, I read that I

> need to fast for 10 -12 hours, and to avoid arginine, so that means a

> few of my supplements are a no no. how long before these tests do I

> need to avoid arginine? do I need the IGF-1 test? would the GH test

> tell me enough?

>

> Im very tired of the BS that doctors are putting us through, I have

> seen about seven or eight doctors in the last nine months( 3 of them

> were DOs), its time consuming and expensive. I will probably have to

> self treat since a doctor wont take me as an individual and listen to

> anything I say. alot of the time I just feel like lying down and

> giving up.

>

> thank you very much for reading this, sherie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date:

2/16/2008 2:16 PM

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Yes, I've been invited to see a shrink too. Your doctor is lost.

Everybody is in range. If you're at the bottom of the range, that

just means you feel worse than everyone else. I think these doctors

did too much drinking and less studying in med-school.

uralThyroidHormonesADRENALS , " pat " wrote:

>

> Please don't give up. You already know more than your doctors and

will be no worse off if you treat yourself. I only go to my family

practice doctor now,as I have to have tests ordered by her. Val and

everyone on this forum have me feeling better than all my doctors have

done in the last two years. Following a doctor's instructions got me

in adrenal trouble, and the endo I went to was no better. The

" someone else " they mention you should see usually means a therapist.

Going through the usual medical fiascos make you ready to see a

therapist. You will feel better and become empowered to get help that

will not put you through wringer physically and financially..

>

> Pat

> Im so tired of these doctors, I dont know

what to do now...

>

>

> I had my appointment with the doctor yesterday, what a waste of time

> (and money). It started out with her coming in with another doctor , I

> guess she was in training. She started telling me and reading off to

> me that each test was normal, one after another all " normal " .

>

> So when I could get a word in, I started to ask my questions I had

> written down. I asked if my sleep /wake schedule could affect my

> cortisol testing she told me that it doesnt make a difference its

> normal, then I asked isnt it suppose to be done in the a.m.?, she said

> it did not matter when it was done.

> I said all the things that she " said " that were " normal " are all in

> the very low end of the range. I asked about my tests being " inrange "

> but still very low,..she said that they are fine and all " normal " .

>

> I asked about my low but " inrange " =

> ACTH

> TSH

> aldosterone

> renin

> free T-3

> ferritin

> and my sodium(this was below range)

>

> My sodium she said " was only 1 point below range so it " is fine " . i

> asked about Florinef for my low aldosterone , she gave me a pissy

> look,so then I asked about raising my armour she said not to do that

> because ill go hyper if I do. I told her about my being very cold

> during the day (I wear my coat at times) and at night while sleeping

> ill sweat , its as if my thermostat is at of wack. I said this happens

> at times , but the last two weeks are so it has increased.

>

> So I asked her since all the tests are fine, and nothing is up with my

> thyroid-adrenal-pituitary , WHY DO I HAVE ALL THESE HYPO SYMPTOMS ?

> why do I feel so crapy most of the time? I said this is her specialty

> whats going on with the way I feel?

>

> Her answer was " maybe its not endocrine, maybe I need to see someone

> else " . not sure what was ment by that sentence . {WHAT A CLASSIC

> ANSWER IT WAS}

>

> She said we tested pretty much everything , I said something about a

> GH test, now she is going to schedule to have that done some time

> soon. Im going to also call this a.m. and ask if they can also do a

> IGF-1 test at the same time, hopefuly she will do that as well.

>

> What do I need to do prepare my self for these tests, I read that I

> need to fast for 10 -12 hours, and to avoid arginine, so that means a

> few of my supplements are a no no. how long before these tests do I

> need to avoid arginine? do I need the IGF-1 test? would the GH test

> tell me enough?

>

> Im very tired of the BS that doctors are putting us through, I have

> seen about seven or eight doctors in the last nine months( 3 of them

> were DOs), its time consuming and expensive. I will probably have to

> self treat since a doctor wont take me as an individual and listen to

> anything I say. alot of the time I just feel like lying down and

> giving up.

>

> thank you very much for reading this, sherie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date:

2/16/2008 2:16 PM

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

they were trained to memorize everything that was put in front of them and not

for searching or thinking.

bw

Nil

Re: Im so tired of these doctors, I dont know what to

do now...

Yes, I've been invited to see a shrink too. Your doctor is lost.

Everybody is in range. If you're at the bottom of the range, that

Link to comment
Share on other sites

they were trained to memorize everything that was put in front of them and not

for searching or thinking.

bw

Nil

Re: Im so tired of these doctors, I dont know what to

do now...

Yes, I've been invited to see a shrink too. Your doctor is lost.

Everybody is in range. If you're at the bottom of the range, that

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hang in there! Sounds like you may need another doctor. I know that can be

difficult to do, but at least you have all these test results to show

another doc that might listen!

Rie

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy

enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright

>

> I had my appointment with the doctor yesterday, what a waste of time

> (and money). It started out with her coming in with another doctor , I

> guess she was in training. She started telling me and reading off to

> me that each test was normal, one after another all " normal " .

>

>

> So when I could get a word in, I started to ask my questions I had

> written down. I asked if my sleep /wake schedule could affect my

> cortisol testing she told me that it doesnt make a difference its

> normal, then I asked isnt it suppose to be done in the a.m.?, she said

> it did not matter when it was done.

> I said all the things that she " said " that were " normal " are all in

> the very low end of the range. I asked about my tests being " inrange "

> but still very low,..she said that they are fine and all " normal " .

>

>

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release Date: 2/18/2008

5:50 AM

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Hang in there! Sounds like you may need another doctor. I know that can be

difficult to do, but at least you have all these test results to show

another doc that might listen!

Rie

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy

enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright

>

> I had my appointment with the doctor yesterday, what a waste of time

> (and money). It started out with her coming in with another doctor , I

> guess she was in training. She started telling me and reading off to

> me that each test was normal, one after another all " normal " .

>

>

> So when I could get a word in, I started to ask my questions I had

> written down. I asked if my sleep /wake schedule could affect my

> cortisol testing she told me that it doesnt make a difference its

> normal, then I asked isnt it suppose to be done in the a.m.?, she said

> it did not matter when it was done.

> I said all the things that she " said " that were " normal " are all in

> the very low end of the range. I asked about my tests being " inrange "

> but still very low,..she said that they are fine and all " normal " .

>

>

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release Date: 2/18/2008

5:50 AM

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> they were trained to memorize everything that was put in front of

> them and not for searching or thinking.

>

Have you considered seeing a DAN! doc ( " defeat autism now! " ), even

though they usually work with autism? By it's very nature as a

disorder whose cause and biomedical treatment is not well understood,

these doctors *must* keep up with the research, and actually be

*researchers* of a sort instead of just " take-this-call-me-in-two-

weeks " people..

Jim

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Sherie,

Don't give up hope! I know EXACTLY the place you are in right now (I

am in the same place, and still so debilitated by my

thyroid/adrenal/immune dysfunction that I haven't been able to work or

do much other than sit on the couch for about 4 months). I, too, have

been to 6 doctors now - including alternative ones. We are so lucky to

have this forum to exchange ideas and treatments and you WILL make it

through this. I know those doctors are so condescending, rude,

dismissive, and just plain UNknowledgeable! I have such a distaste for

the medical establishment and it infuriates me. But know you will heal

(that's what I have to tell myself everyday) and that you will find

the combo of stuff that works for you (I am hoping for this also) even

if you self-treat.

>

> Please don't give up. You already know more than your doctors and

will be no worse off if you treat yourself. I only go to my family

practice doctor now,as I have to have tests ordered by her. Val and

everyone on this forum have me feeling better than all my doctors have

done in the last two years. Following a doctor's instructions got me

in adrenal trouble, and the endo I went to was no better. The

" someone else " they mention you should see usually means a therapist.

Going through the usual medical fiascos make you ready to see a

therapist. You will feel better and become empowered to get help that

will not put you through wringer physically and financially..

>

> Pat

> Im so tired of these doctors, I dont know

what to do now...

>

>

> I had my appointment with the doctor yesterday, what a waste of time

> (and money). It started out with her coming in with another doctor , I

> guess she was in training. She started telling me and reading off to

> me that each test was normal, one after another all " normal " .

>

> So when I could get a word in, I started to ask my questions I had

> written down. I asked if my sleep /wake schedule could affect my

> cortisol testing she told me that it doesnt make a difference its

> normal, then I asked isnt it suppose to be done in the a.m.?, she said

> it did not matter when it was done.

> I said all the things that she " said " that were " normal " are all in

> the very low end of the range. I asked about my tests being " inrange "

> but still very low,..she said that they are fine and all " normal " .

>

> I asked about my low but " inrange " =

> ACTH

> TSH

> aldosterone

> renin

> free T-3

> ferritin

> and my sodium(this was below range)

>

> My sodium she said " was only 1 point below range so it " is fine " . i

> asked about Florinef for my low aldosterone , she gave me a pissy

> look,so then I asked about raising my armour she said not to do that

> because ill go hyper if I do. I told her about my being very cold

> during the day (I wear my coat at times) and at night while sleeping

> ill sweat , its as if my thermostat is at of wack. I said this happens

> at times , but the last two weeks are so it has increased.

>

> So I asked her since all the tests are fine, and nothing is up with my

> thyroid-adrenal-pituitary , WHY DO I HAVE ALL THESE HYPO SYMPTOMS ?

> why do I feel so crapy most of the time? I said this is her specialty

> whats going on with the way I feel?

>

> Her answer was " maybe its not endocrine, maybe I need to see someone

> else " . not sure what was ment by that sentence . {WHAT A CLASSIC

> ANSWER IT WAS}

>

> She said we tested pretty much everything , I said something about a

> GH test, now she is going to schedule to have that done some time

> soon. Im going to also call this a.m. and ask if they can also do a

> IGF-1 test at the same time, hopefuly she will do that as well.

>

> What do I need to do prepare my self for these tests, I read that I

> need to fast for 10 -12 hours, and to avoid arginine, so that means a

> few of my supplements are a no no. how long before these tests do I

> need to avoid arginine? do I need the IGF-1 test? would the GH test

> tell me enough?

>

> Im very tired of the BS that doctors are putting us through, I have

> seen about seven or eight doctors in the last nine months( 3 of them

> were DOs), its time consuming and expensive. I will probably have to

> self treat since a doctor wont take me as an individual and listen to

> anything I say. alot of the time I just feel like lying down and

> giving up.

>

> thank you very much for reading this, sherie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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" sweetwulfie " wrote:

> I said all the things that she " said " that were " normal " are all in

> the very low end of the range. I asked about my tests

being " inrange "

> but still very low,..she said that they are fine and all " normal " .

Not to apologize for any doctors, but they're just doing what they

were taught in med school. To me, it's the lab ranges that are at

fault. Why are they set so broadly to include hypo people? If the

ranges were changed, doctors would make the correct diagnosis and

prescribe meds.

Anyway, what I wanted to share here was my analogy to explain to

doctors how broad ranges can lead to wrong conclusions.

If a large sample of adult women were measured for weight, I would

guess you'd get numbers from 85 lbs. to 300 lbs. You lop off the top

and bottom 5%, and you'd get a normal curve with weights ranging from

say 95 lbs. to 250 lbs. I am 5'4 " tall. Are you going to tell me

that if my weight is 95 lbs or 250 lbs, that is " normal " ? One would

be skeletal, the other obese. And that doesn't even take into

account my height. Someone who's 4'11 " might well be optimal at 95

lbs. " Normal " does not mean optimal. And that's where you point out

that you've done research and you've found that OPTIMAL Free T4

should be around 1.4 and OPTIMAL Free T3 should be closer to 400, not

300. But they have to be looked at in conjuction with one another and

with your adrenal status, just like height and weight go together.

Because as Val's explained, you can have high FT3 and be hypo if your

cortisol is too low.

I will be visiting my doc next month, so just getting my arguments

together and thought I'd share.

Barb

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