Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone

[Guest guest]

I am feeling deeply depressed, unhappy with my life, unhappy with my boyfriend <we have been together for 14 years and I have never felt this way>, anxious, weepy, acne on my face that looks like a rash. I also feel really warm, hands/feet tingly...

I don't feel better going off of the progesterone The big difference I am wondering about is I switched from http://www.womenlivingnaturally.com/product.php?id=21 to https://www.life-flo.com/product.php?parameters=product_id/51385/nm/LF_PROGESTA_CARE_CMPLT_4Z which has DHEA and Pregnenolone, I know they don't usually recommend those ingredients but someone had said they liked it better.

My breasts have gone down considerably actually they have been sore, engorged for months.

I can't stand this depressed feeling and don't know how to fix it

I need to start doing temps again. I fell off the wagon a while ago and can't seem to get myself motivated to do them. I know it is important, I think feeling upset is just throwing me off I am also taking 32.5 mg HC, 60meq potassium, 1 1/4 tab florinef, 75mcg T3, 1.5 mg estriol cream, 10mg testosterone cream.

Do you have a thyroid? I don't, I don't know how much of a difference that makes for t3 need.

Kitty

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Sun, June 20, 2010 3:23:52 PMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance

Kitty,What symptoms of high PG are you having? THe feeling upset, anxious, weepy, tired? Maybe that is why you can sleep so much! :-) I know PG is suppoed to help sleep, not that it ever did for me.My progesterone seems all screwy right now, too. I've used it for years, but now suddenly, it's like I don't need so much. I am not sure if it's because I am getting my thyroid straight or just stupid perimenopouse. I am only using 10 mg daily during the luteal phase and I just tested high. Not horribly high, but still high. I know this makes my temps look higher than they really are but can't say I've experienced anything else from it that I'm aware of. I do feel tired but only the past couple of days and I had lowered my t3 a tad due to low ferritin, so I went back up on that yesterday.Re: stopping the PG tonight. Just thought I'd share my experience doing this. I tried to cut the PG in half after the labs came back high and my

breasts immediatley got sore, but I think the body just gets used to high progesterone and gets mad when you take it away. I remember when one doc had me on 200 mg transdermal. (Yes, stupid I know!) When I came off that, I had huge estrogen dominance syptoms (engorged breasts, etc.) until after my period and then everything went back to normal. For me, it seems if I need to change the PG dose, it works best to just wait until I stop it for my period anyway and then go to the new dose for the next cycle.I hope you are feeling better and can find your optimal t3 dose. I think you are probably close and just need to do some experimenting. Luckily, things happen fast with t3 and dose changes. For what it's worth, my rt3 is gone and I think I will not need much more than 50 t3, maybe 62.5 at most. I just don't seem to need a lot for whatever reason, so I wouold be open to that possibility.Kathleen> > > > >> > > > > That is wonderful! I found great improvements with florinef as well My BF always talks about sodium in our bodies like a battery with low fluids. Without enough salt nothing can communicate leaving us all foggy, confused,

aggitated etc. I am sure it will present differently from person to person but still the same idea generally. > > > > > Great to hear you feel so much better Kathleen > > > > > > > > > > Kitty> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > > > From: keickholt13 <keickholt13@>> > > > > To: RT3_T3 > > > > > Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 12:20:55 PM> > > > > Subject: Success with Derealization!> > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚Â > > > >

> I am posting this here and to the NTH Adreanl group since so many seem to suffer from this debilitating condition, which I will abbreviate as DP (for depersonalization, which is pretty much the same thing and most have both).> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, long story short, it went almost completely away once I increased my HC. Unfortunately, I had to take a lot of HC due to my symptoms of shakiness, trembling, feeling spaced out all the time, feeling like I was going to "fade out." None of which helps with the DP of course.> > > > > > > > > > Well, I started Florinef about 1 week ago and MY GOD, the DP is TOTALLY GONE! In fact, I actually FLEW to Dallas and drove on the highway for 1 and 1/2 hours BY MYSELF! I stayed in a hotel by myself. :-) Yes, I had a few moments of anxiety here and there and some spaciness, which I attribute to the stress of traveling and how hot it was

causing some salt loss, but overall, the trip went off without a hitch and I'm home without a trace of DP left.> > > > > > > > > > I actually think the Florinef helped the DP. Why? I don't know for sure. Maybe it's because Florinef helps with being spaced out or dizzy due to electrolyte imbalances and those sorts of things really aggravate DP. Or maybe it's just that ANY insufficiency of adrenal hormones leads to anxiety and anxiety = DP. I truly believe that DP CANNOT exist if there is no anxiety.> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, for anyone suffering from this condition of DP, please hang in there! And get those dern adrenals fixed. :-)> > > > > > > > > > Kathleen> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

You need LABS and not waste YEARS guesing and trying to adjust by

sympotoms.Too many of the symptoms are cross over type symptoms. 75 mcg

T3 is not a large amount for someoone wiht no thyroi dbut you are on so

many hormones onyl labs should be used ot adjuts yor OTHER hormoens.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://faqhelp.webs.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

I am feeling deeply depressed, unhappy with my life, unhappy

with my boyfriend <we have been together for 14 years and I have

never felt this way>, anxious, weepy, acne on my face that looks

like a rash. I also feel really warm, hands/feet tingly...

 

I don't feel better going off of the progesterone The big

difference I am wondering about is I switched from http://www.womenlivingnaturally.com/product.php?id=21 to

https://www.life-flo.com/product.php?parameters=product_id/51385/nm/LF_PROGESTA_CARE_CMPLT_4Z which

has DHEA and Pregnenolone, I know they don't usually recommend those

ingredients but someone had said they liked it better.

 

My breasts have gone down considerably actually they have been

sore, engorged for months.

 

I can't stand this depressed feeling and don't know how to fix

it

I need to start doing temps again. I fell off the wagon a while

ago and can't seem to get myself motivated to do them. I know it is

important, I think feeling upset is just throwing me off I am also

taking 32.5 mg HC, 60meq potassium, 1 1/4 tab florinef, 75mcg T3, 1.5

mg estriol cream, 10mg testosterone cream.

 

Do you have a thyroid? I don't, I don't know how much of a

difference that makes for t3 need.

 

Kitty

From:

keickholt13

To:

RT3_T3

Sent: Sun, June 20,

2010 3:23:52 PM

Subject: Re:

Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance

 

Kitty,

What symptoms of high PG are you having? THe feeling upset, anxious,

weepy, tired? Maybe that is why you can sleep so much! :-) I know PG is

suppoed to help sleep, not that it ever did for me.

My progesterone seems all screwy right now, too. I've used it for

years, but now suddenly, it's like I don't need so much. I am not sure

if it's because I am getting my thyroid straight or just stupid

perimenopouse. I am only using 10 mg daily during the luteal phase and

I just tested high. Not horribly high, but still high. I know this

makes my temps look higher than they really are but can't say I've

experienced anything else from it that I'm aware of. I do feel tired

but only the past couple of days and I had lowered my t3 a tad due to

low ferritin, so I went back up on that yesterday.

Re: stopping the PG tonight. Just thought I'd share my experience doing

this. I tried to cut the PG in half after the labs came back high and

my breasts immediatley got sore, but I think the body just gets used to

high progesterone and gets mad when you take it away. I remember when

one doc had me on 200 mg transdermal. (Yes, stupid I know!) When I came

off that, I had huge estrogen dominance syptoms (engorged breasts,

etc.) until after my period and then everything went back to normal.

For me, it seems if I need to change the PG dose, it works best to just

wait until I stop it for my period anyway and then go to the new dose

for the next cycle.

I hope you are feeling better and can find your optimal t3 dose. I

think you are probably close and just need to do some experimenting.

Luckily, things happen fast with t3 and dose changes. For what it's

worth, my rt3 is gone and I think I will not need much more than 50 t3,

maybe 62.5 at most. I just don't seem to need a lot for whatever

reason, so I wouold be open to that possibility.

Kathleen

> > > > >

> > > > > That is wonderful! I found great improvements

with florinef as well My BF always talks about sodium in our bodies

like a battery with low fluids. Without enough salt nothing can

communicate leaving us all foggy, confused, aggitated etc. I am sure it

will present differently from person to person but still the same idea

generally.

> > > > > Great to hear you feel so much better Kathleen

> > > > >

> > > > > Kitty

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > From: keickholt13 <keickholt13@>

> > > > > To: RT3_T3

> > > > > Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 12:20:55 PM

> > > > > Subject: Success with Derealization!

> > > > >

> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚Â

> > > > > I am posting this here and to the NTH Adreanl

group since so many seem to suffer from this debilitating condition,

which I will abbreviate as DP (for depersonalization, which is pretty

much the same thing and most have both).

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, long story short, it went almost

completely away once I increased my HC. Unfortunately, I had to take a

lot of HC due to my symptoms of shakiness, trembling, feeling spaced

out all the time, feeling like I was going to "fade out." None of which

helps with the DP of course.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well, I started Florinef about 1 week ago and

MY GOD, the DP is TOTALLY GONE! In fact, I actually FLEW to Dallas and

drove on the highway for 1 and 1/2 hours BY MYSELF! I stayed in a hotel

by myself. :-) Yes, I had a few moments of anxiety here and there and

some spaciness, which I attribute to the stress of traveling and how

hot it was causing some salt loss, but overall, the trip went off

without a hitch and I'm home without a trace of DP left.

> > > > >

> > > > > I actually think the Florinef helped the DP.

Why? I don't know for sure. Maybe it's because Florinef helps with

being spaced out or dizzy due to electrolyte imbalances and those sorts

of things really aggravate DP. Or maybe it's just that ANY

insufficiency of adrenal hormones leads to anxiety and anxiety = DP. I

truly believe that DP CANNOT exist if there is no anxiety.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, for anyone suffering from this

condition of DP, please hang in there! And get those dern adrenals

fixed. :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > Kathleen

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kitty,

I replied to you on the adrenals group, but it will take a while to show up

probably.

I notice MUCH variation in the potency of the brands and I don't think it would

be good to take the one with the pregnenolone in it because who knows what that

is turing into? Not to mention the DHEA in it.

Val suggested on the adrenal boards that you need to get some labs and I tend to

agree. High PG can cause problems just like low can. And I think it's like

cortisol, where it's hard to tell high from low symptoms.

THe DHEA could be turning into more testosterone and you're already taking

testo.

A lot could be going on here.

I would definitely get back on your old cream and see if the symptoms resovle.

For me, not having engorged breasts means I am on the right dose of PG for me.

Did that go away with the old cream? If not, maybe you just needed more. When I

was on Emerita, I needed to take what the tube said equaled 60 mg. On Xymogen

brand, I need only 10 mg cream for same results and labs!

I also know you just significantly lowered your t3 -- and some of your symptoms

almost sound hypo to me. But if you're not doing temps...well, maybe you didn't

need to lower. I know your pulse is high, but that could be electrolyes as you

know.

Unfortunately, high PG makes temps look falsely high,too, so I would really try

to get some sex hormone labs done ASAP if possible.

BTW, yes, I do have a thyroid. And yes, I think if you don't have one it's

posible you do need more t3 because you have ZERO backup of t4 if your levels

get too low. I mean, if my t3 is too low from cynomel, I still get SOME from my

own thyroid because it's not totally suppressed according to labs, whereas if

you drop a bunch of t3 all of a sudden and it's not enough for your body, you

have nothing to make more t3 from.

Hope you feel better soon!

KAthleen

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That is wonderful! I found great improvements with florinef as well

My BF always talks about sodium in our bodies like a battery with low fluids.

Without enough salt nothing can communicate leaving us all foggy, confused,

aggitated etc. I am sure it will present differently from person to person but

still the same idea generally.

> > > > > > Great to hear you feel so much better Kathleen

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kitty

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > > From: keickholt13 <keickholt13@>

> > > > > > To: RT3_T3

> > > > > > Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 12:20:55 PM

> > > > > > Subject: Success with Derealization!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'â€Ã

¡ÃÆ'‚

> > > > > > I am posting this here and to the NTH Adreanl group since so many

seem to suffer from this debilitating condition, which I will abbreviate as DP

(for depersonalization, which is pretty much the same thing and most have both).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, long story short, it went almost completely away once I

increased my HC. Unfortunately, I had to take a lot of HC due to my symptoms of

shakiness, trembling, feeling spaced out all the time, feeling like I was going

to " fade out. " None of which helps with the DP of course.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well, I started Florinef about 1 week ago and MY GOD, the DP is

TOTALLY GONE! In fact, I actually FLEW to Dallas and drove on the highway for 1

and 1/2 hours BY MYSELF! I stayed in a hotel by myself. :-) Yes, I had a few

moments of anxiety here and there and some spaciness, which I attribute to the

stress of traveling and how hot it was causing some salt loss, but overall, the

trip went off without a hitch and I'm home without a trace of DP left.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I actually think the Florinef helped the DP. Why? I don't know for

sure. Maybe it's because Florinef helps with being spaced out or dizzy due to

electrolyte imbalances and those sorts of things really aggravate DP. Or maybe

it's just that ANY insufficiency of adrenal hormones leads to anxiety and

anxiety = DP. I truly believe that DP CANNOT exist if there is no anxiety.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, for anyone suffering from this condition of DP, please hang

in there! And get those dern adrenals fixed. :-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kathleen

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kathleen,

I know I need to get new blood work done and Val recommends having the hormones checked via blood once on creams but that is really expensive without insurance and I just don't have it

I will go back to the other cream. I had switched because it makes me feel really sticky My breasts were still sore with it taking 40mg a day <2 pumps>

I am guessing the DHEA and pregnenolone are causing trouble since I didn't feel this way before.

I stopped with the temps since they were always the same pretty much regardless of what I did or changed I will start them again though.

I am not sure what the best option would be for me with no thyroid. I don't know if I should try to go onto NDT once I am sure of clearance? I didn't tolerate it well before but I wasn't doing anything for my adrenals yet.

Thanks for the imput. Hopefully I can get it sorted soon, I hate feeling this way

kitty

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 11:59:17 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone

Kitty,I replied to you on the adrenals group, but it will take a while to show up probably.I notice MUCH variation in the potency of the brands and I don't think it would be good to take the one with the pregnenolone in it because who knows what that is turing into? Not to mention the DHEA in it.Val suggested on the adrenal boards that you need to get some labs and I tend to agree. High PG can cause problems just like low can. And I think it's like cortisol, where it's hard to tell high from low symptoms.THe DHEA could be turning into more testosterone and you're already taking testo.A lot could be going on here.I would definitely get back on your old cream and see if the symptoms resovle.For me, not having engorged breasts means I am on the right dose of PG for me. Did that go away with the old cream? If not, maybe you just needed more. When I was on Emerita, I needed to take what the tube said

equaled 60 mg. On Xymogen brand, I need only 10 mg cream for same results and labs!I also know you just significantly lowered your t3 -- and some of your symptoms almost sound hypo to me. But if you're not doing temps...well, maybe you didn't need to lower. I know your pulse is high, but that could be electrolyes as you know.Unfortunately, high PG makes temps look falsely high,too, so I would really try to get some sex hormone labs done ASAP if possible.BTW, yes, I do have a thyroid. And yes, I think if you don't have one it's posible you do need more t3 because you have ZERO backup of t4 if your levels get too low. I mean, if my t3 is too low from cynomel, I still get SOME from my own thyroid because it's not totally suppressed according to labs, whereas if you drop a bunch of t3 all of a sudden and it's not enough for your body, you have nothing to make more t3 from.Hope you feel better soon!KAthleen---

In RT3_T3 , kitty Haindl wrote:>> I am feeling deeply depressed, unhappy with my life, unhappy with my boyfriend <we have been together for 14 years and I have never felt this way>, anxious, weepy, acne on my face that looks like a rash. I also feel really warm, hands/feet tingly... > > I don't feel better going off of the progesterone The big difference I am wondering about is I switched from http://www.womenlivingnaturally.com/product.php?id=21 to https://www.life-flo.com/product.php?parameters=product_id/51385/nm/LF_PROGESTA_CARE_CMPLT_4Z which has DHEA and Pregnenolone, I know they don't usually recommend those ingredients but someone had said they liked it better.> > My breasts have gone down considerably actually they have been sore, engorged for months.> > I can't stand this depressed feeling and don't know how to fix it > > I need to start doing temps again. I fell off the wagon a while ago and can't seem to get myself motivated to do them. I know it is important, I think feeling upset is just throwing me off I am also taking 32.5 mg HC, 60meq potassium, 1 1/4 tab florinef, 75mcg T3, 1.5 mg estriol cream, 10mg testosterone cream.> > Do you have a thyroid? I don't, I don't know how much of a difference that makes for t3 need.> > Kitty> > > >

________________________________> > To: RT3_T3 > Sent: Sun, June 20, 2010 3:23:52 PM> Subject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance> > Â > Kitty,> > What symptoms of high PG are you having? THe feeling upset, anxious, weepy, tired? Maybe that is why you can sleep so much! :-) I know PG is suppoed to help sleep, not that it ever did for me.> > My progesterone seems all screwy right now, too. I've used it for years, but now suddenly, it's like I don't need so much. I am not sure if it's because I am getting my thyroid straight or just stupid perimenopouse. I am only using 10 mg daily during the luteal phase and I just tested high. Not horribly high, but still high. I know this

makes my temps look higher than they really are but can't say I've experienced anything else from it that I'm aware of. I do feel tired but only the past couple of days and I had lowered my t3 a tad due to low ferritin, so I went back up on that yesterday.> > Re: stopping the PG tonight. Just thought I'd share my experience doing this. I tried to cut the PG in half after the labs came back high and my breasts immediatley got sore, but I think the body just gets used to high progesterone and gets mad when you take it away. I remember when one doc had me on 200 mg transdermal. (Yes, stupid I know!) When I came off that, I had huge estrogen dominance syptoms (engorged breasts, etc.) until after my period and then everything went back to normal. > > For me, it seems if I need to change the PG dose, it works best to just wait until I stop it for my period anyway and then go to the new dose for the next cycle.> > I

hope you are feeling better and can find your optimal t3 dose. I think you are probably close and just need to do some experimenting. Luckily, things happen fast with t3 and dose changes. For what it's worth, my rt3 is gone and I think I will not need much more than 50 t3, maybe 62.5 at most. I just don't seem to need a lot for whatever reason, so I wouold be open to that possibility.> > Kathleen> > > > > > > >> > > > > > That is wonderful! I found

great improvements with florinef as well My BF always talks about sodium in our bodies like a battery with low fluids. Without enough salt nothing can communicate leaving us all foggy, confused, aggitated etc. I am sure it will present differently from person to person but still the same idea generally. > > > > > > Great to hear you feel so much better Kathleen > > > > > > > > > > > > Kitty> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > > > > From: keickholt13 <keickholt13@>> > > > > > To: RT3_T3 > > > > > > Sent: Wed, June 16,

2010 12:20:55 PM> > > > > > Subject: Success with Derealization!> > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > I am posting this here and to the NTH Adreanl group since so many seem to suffer from this debilitating condition, which I will abbreviate as DP (for depersonalization, which is pretty much the same thing and most have both).> > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, long story short, it went almost completely away once I increased my HC. Unfortunately, I had to take a lot of HC due to my symptoms of shakiness, trembling, feeling spaced out all the time, feeling like I was going to "fade out." None of which helps with the DP of course.> > > > >

> > > > > > > Well, I started Florinef about 1 week ago and MY GOD, the DP is TOTALLY GONE! In fact, I actually FLEW to Dallas and drove on the highway for 1 and 1/2 hours BY MYSELF! I stayed in a hotel by myself. :-) Yes, I had a few moments of anxiety here and there and some spaciness, which I attribute to the stress of traveling and how hot it was causing some salt loss, but overall, the trip went off without a hitch and I'm home without a trace of DP left.> > > > > > > > > > > > I actually think the Florinef helped the DP. Why? I don't know for sure. Maybe it's because Florinef helps with being spaced out or dizzy due to electrolyte imbalances and those sorts of things really aggravate DP. Or maybe it's just that ANY insufficiency of adrenal hormones leads to anxiety and anxiety = DP. I truly believe that DP CANNOT exist if there is no anxiety.> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, for anyone suffering from this condition of DP, please hang in there! And get those dern adrenals fixed. :-)> > > > > > > > > > > > Kathleen> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Kathleen,

I know I need to get new blood work done and Val recommends having the hormones checked via blood once on creams but that is really expensive without insurance and I just don't have it

I will go back to the other cream. I had switched because it makes me feel really sticky My breasts were still sore with it taking 40mg a day <2 pumps>

I am guessing the DHEA and pregnenolone are causing trouble since I didn't feel this way before.

I stopped with the temps since they were always the same pretty much regardless of what I did or changed I will start them again though.

I am not sure what the best option would be for me with no thyroid. I don't know if I should try to go onto NDT once I am sure of clearance? I didn't tolerate it well before but I wasn't doing anything for my adrenals yet.

Thanks for the imput. Hopefully I can get it sorted soon, I hate feeling this way

kitty

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 11:59:17 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone

Kitty,I replied to you on the adrenals group, but it will take a while to show up probably.I notice MUCH variation in the potency of the brands and I don't think it would be good to take the one with the pregnenolone in it because who knows what that is turing into? Not to mention the DHEA in it.Val suggested on the adrenal boards that you need to get some labs and I tend to agree. High PG can cause problems just like low can. And I think it's like cortisol, where it's hard to tell high from low symptoms.THe DHEA could be turning into more testosterone and you're already taking testo.A lot could be going on here.I would definitely get back on your old cream and see if the symptoms resovle.For me, not having engorged breasts means I am on the right dose of PG for me. Did that go away with the old cream? If not, maybe you just needed more. When I was on Emerita, I needed to take what the tube said

equaled 60 mg. On Xymogen brand, I need only 10 mg cream for same results and labs!I also know you just significantly lowered your t3 -- and some of your symptoms almost sound hypo to me. But if you're not doing temps...well, maybe you didn't need to lower. I know your pulse is high, but that could be electrolyes as you know.Unfortunately, high PG makes temps look falsely high,too, so I would really try to get some sex hormone labs done ASAP if possible.BTW, yes, I do have a thyroid. And yes, I think if you don't have one it's posible you do need more t3 because you have ZERO backup of t4 if your levels get too low. I mean, if my t3 is too low from cynomel, I still get SOME from my own thyroid because it's not totally suppressed according to labs, whereas if you drop a bunch of t3 all of a sudden and it's not enough for your body, you have nothing to make more t3 from.Hope you feel better soon!KAthleen---

In RT3_T3 , kitty Haindl wrote:>> I am feeling deeply depressed, unhappy with my life, unhappy with my boyfriend <we have been together for 14 years and I have never felt this way>, anxious, weepy, acne on my face that looks like a rash. I also feel really warm, hands/feet tingly... > > I don't feel better going off of the progesterone The big difference I am wondering about is I switched from http://www.womenlivingnaturally.com/product.php?id=21 to https://www.life-flo.com/product.php?parameters=product_id/51385/nm/LF_PROGESTA_CARE_CMPLT_4Z which has DHEA and Pregnenolone, I know they don't usually recommend those ingredients but someone had said they liked it better.> > My breasts have gone down considerably actually they have been sore, engorged for months.> > I can't stand this depressed feeling and don't know how to fix it > > I need to start doing temps again. I fell off the wagon a while ago and can't seem to get myself motivated to do them. I know it is important, I think feeling upset is just throwing me off I am also taking 32.5 mg HC, 60meq potassium, 1 1/4 tab florinef, 75mcg T3, 1.5 mg estriol cream, 10mg testosterone cream.> > Do you have a thyroid? I don't, I don't know how much of a difference that makes for t3 need.> > Kitty> > > >

________________________________> > To: RT3_T3 > Sent: Sun, June 20, 2010 3:23:52 PM> Subject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance> > Â > Kitty,> > What symptoms of high PG are you having? THe feeling upset, anxious, weepy, tired? Maybe that is why you can sleep so much! :-) I know PG is suppoed to help sleep, not that it ever did for me.> > My progesterone seems all screwy right now, too. I've used it for years, but now suddenly, it's like I don't need so much. I am not sure if it's because I am getting my thyroid straight or just stupid perimenopouse. I am only using 10 mg daily during the luteal phase and I just tested high. Not horribly high, but still high. I know this

makes my temps look higher than they really are but can't say I've experienced anything else from it that I'm aware of. I do feel tired but only the past couple of days and I had lowered my t3 a tad due to low ferritin, so I went back up on that yesterday.> > Re: stopping the PG tonight. Just thought I'd share my experience doing this. I tried to cut the PG in half after the labs came back high and my breasts immediatley got sore, but I think the body just gets used to high progesterone and gets mad when you take it away. I remember when one doc had me on 200 mg transdermal. (Yes, stupid I know!) When I came off that, I had huge estrogen dominance syptoms (engorged breasts, etc.) until after my period and then everything went back to normal. > > For me, it seems if I need to change the PG dose, it works best to just wait until I stop it for my period anyway and then go to the new dose for the next cycle.> > I

hope you are feeling better and can find your optimal t3 dose. I think you are probably close and just need to do some experimenting. Luckily, things happen fast with t3 and dose changes. For what it's worth, my rt3 is gone and I think I will not need much more than 50 t3, maybe 62.5 at most. I just don't seem to need a lot for whatever reason, so I wouold be open to that possibility.> > Kathleen> > > > > > > >> > > > > > That is wonderful! I found

great improvements with florinef as well My BF always talks about sodium in our bodies like a battery with low fluids. Without enough salt nothing can communicate leaving us all foggy, confused, aggitated etc. I am sure it will present differently from person to person but still the same idea generally. > > > > > > Great to hear you feel so much better Kathleen > > > > > > > > > > > > Kitty> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > > > > From: keickholt13 <keickholt13@>> > > > > > To: RT3_T3 > > > > > > Sent: Wed, June 16,

2010 12:20:55 PM> > > > > > Subject: Success with Derealization!> > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > I am posting this here and to the NTH Adreanl group since so many seem to suffer from this debilitating condition, which I will abbreviate as DP (for depersonalization, which is pretty much the same thing and most have both).> > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, long story short, it went almost completely away once I increased my HC. Unfortunately, I had to take a lot of HC due to my symptoms of shakiness, trembling, feeling spaced out all the time, feeling like I was going to "fade out." None of which helps with the DP of course.> > > > >

> > > > > > > Well, I started Florinef about 1 week ago and MY GOD, the DP is TOTALLY GONE! In fact, I actually FLEW to Dallas and drove on the highway for 1 and 1/2 hours BY MYSELF! I stayed in a hotel by myself. :-) Yes, I had a few moments of anxiety here and there and some spaciness, which I attribute to the stress of traveling and how hot it was causing some salt loss, but overall, the trip went off without a hitch and I'm home without a trace of DP left.> > > > > > > > > > > > I actually think the Florinef helped the DP. Why? I don't know for sure. Maybe it's because Florinef helps with being spaced out or dizzy due to electrolyte imbalances and those sorts of things really aggravate DP. Or maybe it's just that ANY insufficiency of adrenal hormones leads to anxiety and anxiety = DP. I truly believe that DP CANNOT exist if there is no anxiety.> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, for anyone suffering from this condition of DP, please hang in there! And get those dern adrenals fixed. :-)> > > > > > > > > > > > Kathleen> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Kathleen,

I know I need to get new blood work done and Val recommends having the hormones checked via blood once on creams but that is really expensive without insurance and I just don't have it

I will go back to the other cream. I had switched because it makes me feel really sticky My breasts were still sore with it taking 40mg a day <2 pumps>

I am guessing the DHEA and pregnenolone are causing trouble since I didn't feel this way before.

I stopped with the temps since they were always the same pretty much regardless of what I did or changed I will start them again though.

I am not sure what the best option would be for me with no thyroid. I don't know if I should try to go onto NDT once I am sure of clearance? I didn't tolerate it well before but I wasn't doing anything for my adrenals yet.

Thanks for the imput. Hopefully I can get it sorted soon, I hate feeling this way

kitty

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 11:59:17 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone

Kitty,I replied to you on the adrenals group, but it will take a while to show up probably.I notice MUCH variation in the potency of the brands and I don't think it would be good to take the one with the pregnenolone in it because who knows what that is turing into? Not to mention the DHEA in it.Val suggested on the adrenal boards that you need to get some labs and I tend to agree. High PG can cause problems just like low can. And I think it's like cortisol, where it's hard to tell high from low symptoms.THe DHEA could be turning into more testosterone and you're already taking testo.A lot could be going on here.I would definitely get back on your old cream and see if the symptoms resovle.For me, not having engorged breasts means I am on the right dose of PG for me. Did that go away with the old cream? If not, maybe you just needed more. When I was on Emerita, I needed to take what the tube said

equaled 60 mg. On Xymogen brand, I need only 10 mg cream for same results and labs!I also know you just significantly lowered your t3 -- and some of your symptoms almost sound hypo to me. But if you're not doing temps...well, maybe you didn't need to lower. I know your pulse is high, but that could be electrolyes as you know.Unfortunately, high PG makes temps look falsely high,too, so I would really try to get some sex hormone labs done ASAP if possible.BTW, yes, I do have a thyroid. And yes, I think if you don't have one it's posible you do need more t3 because you have ZERO backup of t4 if your levels get too low. I mean, if my t3 is too low from cynomel, I still get SOME from my own thyroid because it's not totally suppressed according to labs, whereas if you drop a bunch of t3 all of a sudden and it's not enough for your body, you have nothing to make more t3 from.Hope you feel better soon!KAthleen---

In RT3_T3 , kitty Haindl wrote:>> I am feeling deeply depressed, unhappy with my life, unhappy with my boyfriend <we have been together for 14 years and I have never felt this way>, anxious, weepy, acne on my face that looks like a rash. I also feel really warm, hands/feet tingly... > > I don't feel better going off of the progesterone The big difference I am wondering about is I switched from http://www.womenlivingnaturally.com/product.php?id=21 to https://www.life-flo.com/product.php?parameters=product_id/51385/nm/LF_PROGESTA_CARE_CMPLT_4Z which has DHEA and Pregnenolone, I know they don't usually recommend those ingredients but someone had said they liked it better.> > My breasts have gone down considerably actually they have been sore, engorged for months.> > I can't stand this depressed feeling and don't know how to fix it > > I need to start doing temps again. I fell off the wagon a while ago and can't seem to get myself motivated to do them. I know it is important, I think feeling upset is just throwing me off I am also taking 32.5 mg HC, 60meq potassium, 1 1/4 tab florinef, 75mcg T3, 1.5 mg estriol cream, 10mg testosterone cream.> > Do you have a thyroid? I don't, I don't know how much of a difference that makes for t3 need.> > Kitty> > > >

________________________________> > To: RT3_T3 > Sent: Sun, June 20, 2010 3:23:52 PM> Subject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance> > Â > Kitty,> > What symptoms of high PG are you having? THe feeling upset, anxious, weepy, tired? Maybe that is why you can sleep so much! :-) I know PG is suppoed to help sleep, not that it ever did for me.> > My progesterone seems all screwy right now, too. I've used it for years, but now suddenly, it's like I don't need so much. I am not sure if it's because I am getting my thyroid straight or just stupid perimenopouse. I am only using 10 mg daily during the luteal phase and I just tested high. Not horribly high, but still high. I know this

makes my temps look higher than they really are but can't say I've experienced anything else from it that I'm aware of. I do feel tired but only the past couple of days and I had lowered my t3 a tad due to low ferritin, so I went back up on that yesterday.> > Re: stopping the PG tonight. Just thought I'd share my experience doing this. I tried to cut the PG in half after the labs came back high and my breasts immediatley got sore, but I think the body just gets used to high progesterone and gets mad when you take it away. I remember when one doc had me on 200 mg transdermal. (Yes, stupid I know!) When I came off that, I had huge estrogen dominance syptoms (engorged breasts, etc.) until after my period and then everything went back to normal. > > For me, it seems if I need to change the PG dose, it works best to just wait until I stop it for my period anyway and then go to the new dose for the next cycle.> > I

hope you are feeling better and can find your optimal t3 dose. I think you are probably close and just need to do some experimenting. Luckily, things happen fast with t3 and dose changes. For what it's worth, my rt3 is gone and I think I will not need much more than 50 t3, maybe 62.5 at most. I just don't seem to need a lot for whatever reason, so I wouold be open to that possibility.> > Kathleen> > > > > > > >> > > > > > That is wonderful! I found

great improvements with florinef as well My BF always talks about sodium in our bodies like a battery with low fluids. Without enough salt nothing can communicate leaving us all foggy, confused, aggitated etc. I am sure it will present differently from person to person but still the same idea generally. > > > > > > Great to hear you feel so much better Kathleen > > > > > > > > > > > > Kitty> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > > > > From: keickholt13 <keickholt13@>> > > > > > To: RT3_T3 > > > > > > Sent: Wed, June 16,

2010 12:20:55 PM> > > > > > Subject: Success with Derealization!> > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > I am posting this here and to the NTH Adreanl group since so many seem to suffer from this debilitating condition, which I will abbreviate as DP (for depersonalization, which is pretty much the same thing and most have both).> > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, long story short, it went almost completely away once I increased my HC. Unfortunately, I had to take a lot of HC due to my symptoms of shakiness, trembling, feeling spaced out all the time, feeling like I was going to "fade out." None of which helps with the DP of course.> > > > >

> > > > > > > Well, I started Florinef about 1 week ago and MY GOD, the DP is TOTALLY GONE! In fact, I actually FLEW to Dallas and drove on the highway for 1 and 1/2 hours BY MYSELF! I stayed in a hotel by myself. :-) Yes, I had a few moments of anxiety here and there and some spaciness, which I attribute to the stress of traveling and how hot it was causing some salt loss, but overall, the trip went off without a hitch and I'm home without a trace of DP left.> > > > > > > > > > > > I actually think the Florinef helped the DP. Why? I don't know for sure. Maybe it's because Florinef helps with being spaced out or dizzy due to electrolyte imbalances and those sorts of things really aggravate DP. Or maybe it's just that ANY insufficiency of adrenal hormones leads to anxiety and anxiety = DP. I truly believe that DP CANNOT exist if there is no anxiety.> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, for anyone suffering from this condition of DP, please hang in there! And get those dern adrenals fixed. :-)> > > > > > > > > > > > Kathleen> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I switched back to my old cream last night as well increased my T3 back up and I feel much better today. I think it was a combination of both things. Thank you!

kitty

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:04:26 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone

Kitty: I don't know if this is the case for you, but DHEA and pregnenolone both made me feel worse instead of better. They're supposed to be converted into useful hormones, but that didn't happen with me, they converted instead into useless ones and/or ones I already had too much of.If breasts are sore, I believe that means too much estrogen, and this post from Val says to stop DHEA if estrogen is too high: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/message/36378Margery--- In RT3_T3 , kitty Haindl wrote:>> Kathleen,> I know I need to get new blood work done and Val recommends having the hormones checked via blood once on creams but that is really expensive without insurance and I just don't have it > I will go back to the other cream. I had

switched because it makes me feel really sticky My breasts were still sore with it taking 40mg a day <2 pumps> > I am guessing the DHEA and pregnenolone are causing trouble since I didn't feel this way before.> I stopped with the temps since they were always the same pretty much regardless of what I did or changed I will start them again though.> I am not sure what the best option would be for me with no thyroid. I don't know if I should try to go onto NDT once I am sure of clearance? I didn't tolerate it well before but I wasn't doing anything for my adrenals yet.> Thanks for the imput. Hopefully I can get it sorted soon, I hate feeling this way > > kitty> > > > > ________________________________> > To: RT3_T3 > Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 11:59:17 AM> Subject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone> > Â > Kitty,> > I replied to you on the adrenals group, but it will take a while to show up probably.> > I notice MUCH variation in the potency of the brands and I don't think it would be good to take the one with the pregnenolone in it because who knows what that is turing into? Not to mention the DHEA in it.> > Val suggested on the adrenal boards that you need to get some labs and I tend to agree. High PG can cause problems just like low can. And I think it's like cortisol, where it's hard to tell high from low symptoms.> > THe DHEA could be turning into more testosterone and you're already taking testo.> > A lot could be going on

here.> > I would definitely get back on your old cream and see if the symptoms resovle.> > For me, not having engorged breasts means I am on the right dose of PG for me. Did that go away with the old cream? If not, maybe you just needed more. When I was on Emerita, I needed to take what the tube said equaled 60 mg. On Xymogen brand, I need only 10 mg cream for same results and labs!> > I also know you just significantly lowered your t3 -- and some of your symptoms almost sound hypo to me. But if you're not doing temps...well, maybe you didn't need to lower. I know your pulse is high, but that could be electrolyes as you know.> > Unfortunately, high PG makes temps look falsely high,too, so I would really try to get some sex hormone labs done ASAP if possible.> > BTW, yes, I do have a thyroid. And yes, I think if you don't have one it's posible you do need more t3 because you have ZERO

backup of t4 if your levels get too low. I mean, if my t3 is too low from cynomel, I still get SOME from my own thyroid because it's not totally suppressed according to labs, whereas if you drop a bunch of t3 all of a sudden and it's not enough for your body, you have nothing to make more t3 from.> > Hope you feel better soon!> > KAthleen> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > That is wonderful! I found great improvements with florinef as well My BF always talks about sodium in our bodies like a battery with low fluids. Without enough salt nothing can communicate leaving us all foggy, confused, aggitated etc. I am sure it will present differently from person to person but still the same idea generally. > > > > > > > Great to hear you feel so much better Kathleen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kitty> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > > > > > From:

keickholt13 <keickholt13@>> > > > > > > To: RT3_T3 > > > > > > > Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 12:20:55 PM> > > > > > > Subject: Success with Derealization!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'†'ÃÆ'Æ'¢ÃÆ'¢â€šÂ¬ÃÆ'…¡ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ > > > > > > > I am posting this here and to the NTH Adreanl group since so many seem to suffer from this debilitating condition, which I will abbreviate as DP (for

depersonalization, which is pretty much the same thing and most have both).> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, long story short, it went almost completely away once I increased my HC. Unfortunately, I had to take a lot of HC due to my symptoms of shakiness, trembling, feeling spaced out all the time, feeling like I was going to "fade out." None of which helps with the DP of course.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I started Florinef about 1 week ago and MY GOD, the DP is TOTALLY GONE! In fact, I actually FLEW to Dallas and drove on the highway for 1 and 1/2 hours BY MYSELF! I stayed in a hotel by myself. :-) Yes, I had a few moments of anxiety here and there and some spaciness, which I attribute to the stress of traveling and how hot it was causing some salt loss, but overall, the trip went off without a hitch and I'm home without a trace of DP

left.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually think the Florinef helped the DP. Why? I don't know for sure. Maybe it's because Florinef helps with being spaced out or dizzy due to electrolyte imbalances and those sorts of things really aggravate DP. Or maybe it's just that ANY insufficiency of adrenal hormones leads to anxiety and anxiety = DP. I truly believe that DP CANNOT exist if there is no anxiety.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, for anyone suffering from this condition of DP, please hang in there! And get those dern adrenals fixed. :-)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathleen> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I switched back to my old cream last night as well increased my T3 back up and I feel much better today. I think it was a combination of both things. Thank you!

kitty

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:04:26 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone

Kitty: I don't know if this is the case for you, but DHEA and pregnenolone both made me feel worse instead of better. They're supposed to be converted into useful hormones, but that didn't happen with me, they converted instead into useless ones and/or ones I already had too much of.If breasts are sore, I believe that means too much estrogen, and this post from Val says to stop DHEA if estrogen is too high: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/message/36378Margery--- In RT3_T3 , kitty Haindl wrote:>> Kathleen,> I know I need to get new blood work done and Val recommends having the hormones checked via blood once on creams but that is really expensive without insurance and I just don't have it > I will go back to the other cream. I had

switched because it makes me feel really sticky My breasts were still sore with it taking 40mg a day <2 pumps> > I am guessing the DHEA and pregnenolone are causing trouble since I didn't feel this way before.> I stopped with the temps since they were always the same pretty much regardless of what I did or changed I will start them again though.> I am not sure what the best option would be for me with no thyroid. I don't know if I should try to go onto NDT once I am sure of clearance? I didn't tolerate it well before but I wasn't doing anything for my adrenals yet.> Thanks for the imput. Hopefully I can get it sorted soon, I hate feeling this way > > kitty> > > > > ________________________________> > To: RT3_T3 > Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 11:59:17 AM> Subject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone> > Â > Kitty,> > I replied to you on the adrenals group, but it will take a while to show up probably.> > I notice MUCH variation in the potency of the brands and I don't think it would be good to take the one with the pregnenolone in it because who knows what that is turing into? Not to mention the DHEA in it.> > Val suggested on the adrenal boards that you need to get some labs and I tend to agree. High PG can cause problems just like low can. And I think it's like cortisol, where it's hard to tell high from low symptoms.> > THe DHEA could be turning into more testosterone and you're already taking testo.> > A lot could be going on

here.> > I would definitely get back on your old cream and see if the symptoms resovle.> > For me, not having engorged breasts means I am on the right dose of PG for me. Did that go away with the old cream? If not, maybe you just needed more. When I was on Emerita, I needed to take what the tube said equaled 60 mg. On Xymogen brand, I need only 10 mg cream for same results and labs!> > I also know you just significantly lowered your t3 -- and some of your symptoms almost sound hypo to me. But if you're not doing temps...well, maybe you didn't need to lower. I know your pulse is high, but that could be electrolyes as you know.> > Unfortunately, high PG makes temps look falsely high,too, so I would really try to get some sex hormone labs done ASAP if possible.> > BTW, yes, I do have a thyroid. And yes, I think if you don't have one it's posible you do need more t3 because you have ZERO

backup of t4 if your levels get too low. I mean, if my t3 is too low from cynomel, I still get SOME from my own thyroid because it's not totally suppressed according to labs, whereas if you drop a bunch of t3 all of a sudden and it's not enough for your body, you have nothing to make more t3 from.> > Hope you feel better soon!> > KAthleen> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > That is wonderful! I found great improvements with florinef as well My BF always talks about sodium in our bodies like a battery with low fluids. Without enough salt nothing can communicate leaving us all foggy, confused, aggitated etc. I am sure it will present differently from person to person but still the same idea generally. > > > > > > > Great to hear you feel so much better Kathleen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kitty> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > > > > > From:

keickholt13 <keickholt13@>> > > > > > > To: RT3_T3 > > > > > > > Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 12:20:55 PM> > > > > > > Subject: Success with Derealization!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'†'ÃÆ'Æ'¢ÃÆ'¢â€šÂ¬ÃÆ'…¡ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ > > > > > > > I am posting this here and to the NTH Adreanl group since so many seem to suffer from this debilitating condition, which I will abbreviate as DP (for

depersonalization, which is pretty much the same thing and most have both).> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, long story short, it went almost completely away once I increased my HC. Unfortunately, I had to take a lot of HC due to my symptoms of shakiness, trembling, feeling spaced out all the time, feeling like I was going to "fade out." None of which helps with the DP of course.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I started Florinef about 1 week ago and MY GOD, the DP is TOTALLY GONE! In fact, I actually FLEW to Dallas and drove on the highway for 1 and 1/2 hours BY MYSELF! I stayed in a hotel by myself. :-) Yes, I had a few moments of anxiety here and there and some spaciness, which I attribute to the stress of traveling and how hot it was causing some salt loss, but overall, the trip went off without a hitch and I'm home without a trace of DP

left.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually think the Florinef helped the DP. Why? I don't know for sure. Maybe it's because Florinef helps with being spaced out or dizzy due to electrolyte imbalances and those sorts of things really aggravate DP. Or maybe it's just that ANY insufficiency of adrenal hormones leads to anxiety and anxiety = DP. I truly believe that DP CANNOT exist if there is no anxiety.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, for anyone suffering from this condition of DP, please hang in there! And get those dern adrenals fixed. :-)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathleen> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I switched back to my old cream last night as well increased my T3 back up and I feel much better today. I think it was a combination of both things. Thank you!

kitty

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:04:26 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone

Kitty: I don't know if this is the case for you, but DHEA and pregnenolone both made me feel worse instead of better. They're supposed to be converted into useful hormones, but that didn't happen with me, they converted instead into useless ones and/or ones I already had too much of.If breasts are sore, I believe that means too much estrogen, and this post from Val says to stop DHEA if estrogen is too high: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/message/36378Margery--- In RT3_T3 , kitty Haindl wrote:>> Kathleen,> I know I need to get new blood work done and Val recommends having the hormones checked via blood once on creams but that is really expensive without insurance and I just don't have it > I will go back to the other cream. I had

switched because it makes me feel really sticky My breasts were still sore with it taking 40mg a day <2 pumps> > I am guessing the DHEA and pregnenolone are causing trouble since I didn't feel this way before.> I stopped with the temps since they were always the same pretty much regardless of what I did or changed I will start them again though.> I am not sure what the best option would be for me with no thyroid. I don't know if I should try to go onto NDT once I am sure of clearance? I didn't tolerate it well before but I wasn't doing anything for my adrenals yet.> Thanks for the imput. Hopefully I can get it sorted soon, I hate feeling this way > > kitty> > > > > ________________________________> > To: RT3_T3 > Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 11:59:17 AM> Subject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone> > Â > Kitty,> > I replied to you on the adrenals group, but it will take a while to show up probably.> > I notice MUCH variation in the potency of the brands and I don't think it would be good to take the one with the pregnenolone in it because who knows what that is turing into? Not to mention the DHEA in it.> > Val suggested on the adrenal boards that you need to get some labs and I tend to agree. High PG can cause problems just like low can. And I think it's like cortisol, where it's hard to tell high from low symptoms.> > THe DHEA could be turning into more testosterone and you're already taking testo.> > A lot could be going on

here.> > I would definitely get back on your old cream and see if the symptoms resovle.> > For me, not having engorged breasts means I am on the right dose of PG for me. Did that go away with the old cream? If not, maybe you just needed more. When I was on Emerita, I needed to take what the tube said equaled 60 mg. On Xymogen brand, I need only 10 mg cream for same results and labs!> > I also know you just significantly lowered your t3 -- and some of your symptoms almost sound hypo to me. But if you're not doing temps...well, maybe you didn't need to lower. I know your pulse is high, but that could be electrolyes as you know.> > Unfortunately, high PG makes temps look falsely high,too, so I would really try to get some sex hormone labs done ASAP if possible.> > BTW, yes, I do have a thyroid. And yes, I think if you don't have one it's posible you do need more t3 because you have ZERO

backup of t4 if your levels get too low. I mean, if my t3 is too low from cynomel, I still get SOME from my own thyroid because it's not totally suppressed according to labs, whereas if you drop a bunch of t3 all of a sudden and it's not enough for your body, you have nothing to make more t3 from.> > Hope you feel better soon!> > KAthleen> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > That is wonderful! I found great improvements with florinef as well My BF always talks about sodium in our bodies like a battery with low fluids. Without enough salt nothing can communicate leaving us all foggy, confused, aggitated etc. I am sure it will present differently from person to person but still the same idea generally. > > > > > > > Great to hear you feel so much better Kathleen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kitty> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > > > > > From:

keickholt13 <keickholt13@>> > > > > > > To: RT3_T3 > > > > > > > Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 12:20:55 PM> > > > > > > Subject: Success with Derealization!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'†'ÃÆ'Æ'¢ÃÆ'¢â€šÂ¬ÃÆ'…¡ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ > > > > > > > I am posting this here and to the NTH Adreanl group since so many seem to suffer from this debilitating condition, which I will abbreviate as DP (for

depersonalization, which is pretty much the same thing and most have both).> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, long story short, it went almost completely away once I increased my HC. Unfortunately, I had to take a lot of HC due to my symptoms of shakiness, trembling, feeling spaced out all the time, feeling like I was going to "fade out." None of which helps with the DP of course.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I started Florinef about 1 week ago and MY GOD, the DP is TOTALLY GONE! In fact, I actually FLEW to Dallas and drove on the highway for 1 and 1/2 hours BY MYSELF! I stayed in a hotel by myself. :-) Yes, I had a few moments of anxiety here and there and some spaciness, which I attribute to the stress of traveling and how hot it was causing some salt loss, but overall, the trip went off without a hitch and I'm home without a trace of DP

left.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually think the Florinef helped the DP. Why? I don't know for sure. Maybe it's because Florinef helps with being spaced out or dizzy due to electrolyte imbalances and those sorts of things really aggravate DP. Or maybe it's just that ANY insufficiency of adrenal hormones leads to anxiety and anxiety = DP. I truly believe that DP CANNOT exist if there is no anxiety.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, for anyone suffering from this condition of DP, please hang in there! And get those dern adrenals fixed. :-)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathleen> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I hope you don't mine me jumping in here but I've had problems from taking pregnenolone and DHEA. I can't take the slightest amount of either one or it sends me into emotional crying spell which is not normal for me. Every time I've tried to take either one both together or separate I end up an emotional wreck within hours from taking it. Would this mean I have too much estrogen? I never have sore breasts.

I switched back to my old cream last night as well increased my T3 back up and I feel much better today. I think it was a combination of both things. Thank you!

kitty

From: Margery__W <m.escoffery (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net>To: RT3_T3 Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:04:26 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone Kitty: I don't know if this is the case for you, but DHEA and pregnenolone both made me feel worse instead of better. They're supposed to be converted into useful hormones, but that didn't happen with me, they converted instead into useless ones and/or ones I already had too much of.If breasts are sore, I believe that means too much estrogen, and this post from Val says to stop DHEA if estrogen is too high: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/message/36378Margery

[Guest guest]

I hope you don't mine me jumping in here but I've had problems from taking pregnenolone and DHEA. I can't take the slightest amount of either one or it sends me into emotional crying spell which is not normal for me. Every time I've tried to take either one both together or separate I end up an emotional wreck within hours from taking it. Would this mean I have too much estrogen? I never have sore breasts.

I switched back to my old cream last night as well increased my T3 back up and I feel much better today. I think it was a combination of both things. Thank you!

kitty

From: Margery__W <m.escoffery (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net>To: RT3_T3 Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:04:26 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone Kitty: I don't know if this is the case for you, but DHEA and pregnenolone both made me feel worse instead of better. They're supposed to be converted into useful hormones, but that didn't happen with me, they converted instead into useless ones and/or ones I already had too much of.If breasts are sore, I believe that means too much estrogen, and this post from Val says to stop DHEA if estrogen is too high: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/message/36378Margery

[Guest guest]

I hope you don't mine me jumping in here but I've had problems from taking pregnenolone and DHEA. I can't take the slightest amount of either one or it sends me into emotional crying spell which is not normal for me. Every time I've tried to take either one both together or separate I end up an emotional wreck within hours from taking it. Would this mean I have too much estrogen? I never have sore breasts.

I switched back to my old cream last night as well increased my T3 back up and I feel much better today. I think it was a combination of both things. Thank you!

kitty

From: Margery__W <m.escoffery (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net>To: RT3_T3 Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:04:26 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone Kitty: I don't know if this is the case for you, but DHEA and pregnenolone both made me feel worse instead of better. They're supposed to be converted into useful hormones, but that didn't happen with me, they converted instead into useless ones and/or ones I already had too much of.If breasts are sore, I believe that means too much estrogen, and this post from Val says to stop DHEA if estrogen is too high: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/message/36378Margery

[Guest guest]

my guess would be you have enough progesterone. Low progesterone/high estrogen causes sore breasts. I think my issue was the DHEA. I feel better on the old cream which was just progesterone.

Kitty

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:45:41 PMSubject: Re: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone

I hope you don't mine me jumping in here but I've had problems from taking pregnenolone and DHEA. I can't take the slightest amount of either one or it sends me into emotional crying spell which is not normal for me. Every time I've tried to take either one both together or separate I end up an emotional wreck within hours from taking it. Would this mean I have too much estrogen? I never have sore breasts.

I switched back to my old cream last night as well increased my T3 back up and I feel much better today. I think it was a combination of both things. Thank you!

kitty

From: Margery__W <m.escoffery@ sbcglobal. net>To: RT3_T3 (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) comSent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:04:26 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone

Kitty: I don't know if this is the case for you, but DHEA and pregnenolone both made me feel worse instead of better. They're supposed to be converted into useful hormones, but that didn't happen with me, they converted instead into useless ones and/or ones I already had too much of.If breasts are sore, I believe that means too much estrogen, and this post from Val says to stop DHEA if estrogen is too high: http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ RT3_T3/message/ 36378Margery

[Guest guest]

my guess would be you have enough progesterone. Low progesterone/high estrogen causes sore breasts. I think my issue was the DHEA. I feel better on the old cream which was just progesterone.

Kitty

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:45:41 PMSubject: Re: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone

I hope you don't mine me jumping in here but I've had problems from taking pregnenolone and DHEA. I can't take the slightest amount of either one or it sends me into emotional crying spell which is not normal for me. Every time I've tried to take either one both together or separate I end up an emotional wreck within hours from taking it. Would this mean I have too much estrogen? I never have sore breasts.

I switched back to my old cream last night as well increased my T3 back up and I feel much better today. I think it was a combination of both things. Thank you!

kitty

From: Margery__W <m.escoffery@ sbcglobal. net>To: RT3_T3 (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) comSent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:04:26 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone

Kitty: I don't know if this is the case for you, but DHEA and pregnenolone both made me feel worse instead of better. They're supposed to be converted into useful hormones, but that didn't happen with me, they converted instead into useless ones and/or ones I already had too much of.If breasts are sore, I believe that means too much estrogen, and this post from Val says to stop DHEA if estrogen is too high: http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ RT3_T3/message/ 36378Margery

[Guest guest]

I think it always comes down to doing what feels best. I tried following what the doctors have told me and ended up feeling sicker. I now do what feels best for me.

my guess would be you have enough progesterone. Low progesterone/high estrogen causes sore breasts. I think my issue was the DHEA. I feel better on the old cream which was just progesterone.

Kitty

From: Louise Hill <loubob@....com>To: RT3_T3 Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:45:41 PMSubject: Re: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone I hope you don't mine me jumping in here but I've had problems from taking pregnenolone and DHEA. I can't take the slightest amount of either one or it sends me into emotional crying spell which is not normal for me. Every time I've tried to take either one both together or separate I end up an emotional wreck within hours from taking it. Would this mean I have too much estrogen? I never have sore breasts.

I switched back to my old cream last night as well increased my T3 back up and I feel much better today. I think it was a combination of both things. Thank you!

kitty

From: Margery__W <m.escoffery@ sbcglobal. net>To: RT3_T3 (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) comSent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:04:26 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone Kitty: I don't know if this is the case for you, but DHEA and pregnenolone both made me feel worse instead of better. They're supposed to be converted into useful hormones, but that didn't happen with me, they converted instead into useless ones and/or ones I already had too much of.If breasts are sore, I believe that means too much estrogen, and this post from Val says to stop DHEA if estrogen is too high: http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ RT3_T3/message/ 36378Margery

[Guest guest]

I think it always comes down to doing what feels best. I tried following what the doctors have told me and ended up feeling sicker. I now do what feels best for me.

my guess would be you have enough progesterone. Low progesterone/high estrogen causes sore breasts. I think my issue was the DHEA. I feel better on the old cream which was just progesterone.

Kitty

From: Louise Hill <loubob@....com>To: RT3_T3 Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:45:41 PMSubject: Re: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone I hope you don't mine me jumping in here but I've had problems from taking pregnenolone and DHEA. I can't take the slightest amount of either one or it sends me into emotional crying spell which is not normal for me. Every time I've tried to take either one both together or separate I end up an emotional wreck within hours from taking it. Would this mean I have too much estrogen? I never have sore breasts.

I switched back to my old cream last night as well increased my T3 back up and I feel much better today. I think it was a combination of both things. Thank you!

kitty

From: Margery__W <m.escoffery@ sbcglobal. net>To: RT3_T3 (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) comSent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:04:26 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone Kitty: I don't know if this is the case for you, but DHEA and pregnenolone both made me feel worse instead of better. They're supposed to be converted into useful hormones, but that didn't happen with me, they converted instead into useless ones and/or ones I already had too much of.If breasts are sore, I believe that means too much estrogen, and this post from Val says to stop DHEA if estrogen is too high: http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ RT3_T3/message/ 36378Margery

[Guest guest]

I think it always comes down to doing what feels best. I tried following what the doctors have told me and ended up feeling sicker. I now do what feels best for me.

my guess would be you have enough progesterone. Low progesterone/high estrogen causes sore breasts. I think my issue was the DHEA. I feel better on the old cream which was just progesterone.

Kitty

From: Louise Hill <loubob@....com>To: RT3_T3 Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:45:41 PMSubject: Re: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone I hope you don't mine me jumping in here but I've had problems from taking pregnenolone and DHEA. I can't take the slightest amount of either one or it sends me into emotional crying spell which is not normal for me. Every time I've tried to take either one both together or separate I end up an emotional wreck within hours from taking it. Would this mean I have too much estrogen? I never have sore breasts.

I switched back to my old cream last night as well increased my T3 back up and I feel much better today. I think it was a combination of both things. Thank you!

kitty

From: Margery__W <m.escoffery@ sbcglobal. net>To: RT3_T3 (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) comSent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:04:26 AMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone Kitty: I don't know if this is the case for you, but DHEA and pregnenolone both made me feel worse instead of better. They're supposed to be converted into useful hormones, but that didn't happen with me, they converted instead into useless ones and/or ones I already had too much of.If breasts are sore, I believe that means too much estrogen, and this post from Val says to stop DHEA if estrogen is too high: http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ RT3_T3/message/ 36378Margery

[Guest guest]

I also have nothing but problems with pregnenolone and DHEA. They are supposed

to convert into the whatever hormones the body needs; but they just don't do

that with me. I just don't convert them correctly. They do not convert into

hormones I need; they convert into hormones I already have too much of or do not

need. I don't know why this is, but I do know not I'm not ever taking either

again.

>

> >

> > I switched back to my old cream last night as well increased my T3 back up

and I feel much better today. I think it was a combination of both things. Thank

you!

> >

> > kitty

> >

> >

> > To: RT3_T3

> > Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 10:04:26 AM

> > Subject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after

clearance-kitty & progesterone

> >

> >

> > Kitty: I don't know if this is the case for you, but DHEA and pregnenolone

both made me feel worse instead of better. They're supposed to be converted into

useful hormones, but that didn't happen with me, they converted instead into

useless ones and/or ones I already had too much of.

> >

> > If breasts are sore, I believe that means too much estrogen, and this post

from Val says to stop DHEA if estrogen is too high:

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/message/36378

> >

> > Margery

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, Kitty, I didn't know about the insurance thing. Is it expensive with

those self-pay labs, too, like LabOne? Maybe you could just test progesterone

and it wouldn't be too expensive.

I used to have to use what the creams said were 60 mg to stop the breast

soreness. Maybe try to buy the Xmogen. It's not any more expensive, it has twice

as much pg per pump than the other brands, and it just plain works better for

some reason. I can tell you where to buy it. It's not sticky and you don't need

a lot so there's less to apply anyway.

I understand about the temps. :-) I am obsessive with mine, lol, but that's just

me, obsessive! But they really can help you.

Well, if it were me, if I KNEW I had fixed my rt3 problem, I think dessicated is

definitely closer to what our own bodies would do if they could. But I am not

positive what caused my rt3 or if it will ever be " fixed " , so I am going to stay

on t3. Val is on all t3 and plans to stay on it forever and so are many others.

But I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to go on dessicated if you

think you fixed the CAUSE of your rt3 problem. That's the issue. You could wind

up having to start all over again, which wouldn't be fun, either.

I hope you feel better soon!

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Sorry, Kitty, I didn't know about the insurance thing. Is it expensive with

those self-pay labs, too, like LabOne? Maybe you could just test progesterone

and it wouldn't be too expensive.

I used to have to use what the creams said were 60 mg to stop the breast

soreness. Maybe try to buy the Xmogen. It's not any more expensive, it has twice

as much pg per pump than the other brands, and it just plain works better for

some reason. I can tell you where to buy it. It's not sticky and you don't need

a lot so there's less to apply anyway.

I understand about the temps. :-) I am obsessive with mine, lol, but that's just

me, obsessive! But they really can help you.

Well, if it were me, if I KNEW I had fixed my rt3 problem, I think dessicated is

definitely closer to what our own bodies would do if they could. But I am not

positive what caused my rt3 or if it will ever be " fixed " , so I am going to stay

on t3. Val is on all t3 and plans to stay on it forever and so are many others.

But I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to go on dessicated if you

think you fixed the CAUSE of your rt3 problem. That's the issue. You could wind

up having to start all over again, which wouldn't be fun, either.

I hope you feel better soon!

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Sorry, Kitty, I didn't know about the insurance thing. Is it expensive with

those self-pay labs, too, like LabOne? Maybe you could just test progesterone

and it wouldn't be too expensive.

I used to have to use what the creams said were 60 mg to stop the breast

soreness. Maybe try to buy the Xmogen. It's not any more expensive, it has twice

as much pg per pump than the other brands, and it just plain works better for

some reason. I can tell you where to buy it. It's not sticky and you don't need

a lot so there's less to apply anyway.

I understand about the temps. :-) I am obsessive with mine, lol, but that's just

me, obsessive! But they really can help you.

Well, if it were me, if I KNEW I had fixed my rt3 problem, I think dessicated is

definitely closer to what our own bodies would do if they could. But I am not

positive what caused my rt3 or if it will ever be " fixed " , so I am going to stay

on t3. Val is on all t3 and plans to stay on it forever and so are many others.

But I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to go on dessicated if you

think you fixed the CAUSE of your rt3 problem. That's the issue. You could wind

up having to start all over again, which wouldn't be fun, either.

I hope you feel better soon!

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Absolutely do what feels best! My Holtorf doc says you can't have enough PG and

pushes it for everything. Well, he's wrong! You CAN have too much PG and have

all sorts of issues.

Kathleen

>

>

[Guest guest]

Absolutely do what feels best! My Holtorf doc says you can't have enough PG and

pushes it for everything. Well, he's wrong! You CAN have too much PG and have

all sorts of issues.

Kathleen

>

>

[Guest guest]

Absolutely do what feels best! My Holtorf doc says you can't have enough PG and

pushes it for everything. Well, he's wrong! You CAN have too much PG and have

all sorts of issues.

Kathleen

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Kathleen

Val recommends checking hormones via blood once we start creams and all of those tests are really expensive I am feeling better today though, so I am hoping it was just from trying the other cream. I also put my T3 back to 100mcg so hopefully I was just messing with things prematurely.

I am not sure what to do about trying the NDT. I was just wondering since I don't have a thyroid at all if it would be better for me being that it contains iodine and the other thyroid hormones? I will wait a while anyway since I haven't had any symptoms of clearance.

The temps just got annoying for me since they never seemed to show anything one way of the other... I need to get it together to do them though, maybe they will be more useful as I get more stable?

Thanks again

Kitty

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Wed, June 23, 2010 7:09:42 PMSubject: Re: Success with Derealization! / dosing after clearance-kitty & progesterone

Sorry, Kitty, I didn't know about the insurance thing. Is it expensive with those self-pay labs, too, like LabOne? Maybe you could just test progesterone and it wouldn't be too expensive.I used to have to use what the creams said were 60 mg to stop the breast soreness. Maybe try to buy the Xmogen. It's not any more expensive, it has twice as much pg per pump than the other brands, and it just plain works better for some reason. I can tell you where to buy it. It's not sticky and you don't need a lot so there's less to apply anyway.I understand about the temps. :-) I am obsessive with mine, lol, but that's just me, obsessive! But they really can help you.Well, if it were me, if I KNEW I had fixed my rt3 problem, I think dessicated is definitely closer to what our own bodies would do if they could. But I am not positive what caused my rt3 or if it will ever be "fixed", so I am going to stay on t3. Val is on all t3 and plans to

stay on it forever and so are many others. But I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to go on dessicated if you think you fixed the CAUSE of your rt3 problem. That's the issue. You could wind up having to start all over again, which wouldn't be fun, either.I hope you feel better soon!Kathleen