Re: Adding some ERFA to T3 dose

[Guest guest]

>Is it possible to just add in some ERFA instead of trying to totally swap out

the T3 for all ERFA? Or should I just try to follow the swap out

recommendations and see how it goes?

If you are a bit hypo then you will get away with it.

If you are correctly dosed on T3 then adding a grain will add 9 of T3

immediatly and could send you hyper.

Nick

--

for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

www.thyroid-rt3.com

[Guest guest]

my one daughter on NT has started adding in some T3 and is up to 35 mcg of T3 and down to 1 grain NT..her basal temps are good and she is feeling good..should we just stop here or continue to go off the T3..

what will her blood work look like as far as RT3 goes...will it give us any useful info ..she is due to have blood next week....not sure what to do since she is feelign well now and has good temps???>Is it possible to just add in some ERFA instead of trying to totally swap out the T3 for all ERFA? Or should I just try to follow the swap out recommendations and see how it goes?If you are a bit hypo then you will get away with it.If you are correctly dosed on T3 then adding a grain will add 9 of T3immediatly and could send you hyper.Nick-- for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to www.thyroid-rt3.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Nick!

Thanks for the reply!!!

I'm currently taking 50 mcg/day of Cytomel (12.5 mcg 4x/day)....so I was

thinking of decreasing the Cytomel a little and adding some ERFA. So...if 1

grain of ERFA is equal to 25 mcg of T3....then maybe I could try 1/4 grain of

ERFA plus 6.25 mcg of T3 for my first 2 doses of the day.....then take 12.5 T3

in the late afternoon and 12.5 T3 at bedtime.

So my 4 doses of T3 + ERFA would look like this....

6.25 T3 + 1/4 gr....6.25 T3 + 1/4 gr....12.5 T3....12.5 T3

What do you think?

Is it okay to take the ERFA and T3 sublingually at the same time?

I had parathyroid surgery in 2007 but I am still having a problem with calcium

and vitamin D (I can't take any D)....so I am hoping that something in the ERFA

might be the missing piece of the puzzle. I know that's probably wishful

thinking so I'll have another RT3 lab done about 2 months after I start the

ERFA.

I included my last post to the adrenal group with labs and history in case

anything in it is helpful. All comments appreciated!!!

Thanks so much!!!

~Kathy

-------previous post to adrenal group------

Labs, Questions and Mistakes 4-26-10

I think I goofed on my aldosterone & renin labs. We have a whole house water

purifier/softener (General Ionics) that uses salt...and yes...dummy me drank the

water during my salt/potassium fast. I was so upset with myself when I realized

what I did. I called the water purifier company and they said the salt in the

water is so slight because it goes thru 5 rinse cycles. So I don't know. Should

I repeat the labs?

Background info

1991...goiter and TSH of 122. Took Synthroid for years.

In 2007 Thyroglobulin Antibodies were 307 (Pos >100)

Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 24 (Neg <60)

December 2008...I had a RT3 ratio of 12 and have been on Cytomel ever since.

At the time of these labs I was taking....

T3 (Cytomel) about 64 mcg/day in 4 doses (Had slight tremor. Now take 50mcg)

HC (cream) 25 mg/day 10+7.5+5+2.5

Sea Salt 1/4 teaspoon 3x/day

Post menopausal...taking Vivelle and Prometrium

Klor Con 600mg/day

Can't take HC pills because it causes a burning sensation.

Pulse averages around 84

Blood pressure at doctor's office... 110/64

Sometimes my BP drops more than 10 points at home using a wrist cuff

....sitting:119/71, standing: 108/62)

My symptoms....

Brain fog

Not enough stamina.

Muscle weakness has improved but I am hoping it will improve a little more.

I still have some muscle tingling especially in my upper chest.

I have spells of horrible insomnia.

My hair is still falling out.

I have heat/cold intolerance. (I froze all winter)

Once in awhile I have slight lightheaded spells (while moving around)

My temps will be stable for a few days and then drop...98.2 to 98.4 then drop to

97.7 to 97.9. It seems like my temps follow the weather...when it gets cold my

temps drop and when it's warm they go up.

A few months before this lab I was taking 2,000 units of vitamin D every other

day. I started feeling awful and having kidney pain and horrible urinary

frequency and urgency. Since the D was the only new thing I added...I quit

taking it and the pain went away and the urinary problems got much better but

not perfect. I quit the D about a month before this lab.

Salt/Potassium fast: about 36 hours (except for the purifier water)

Food fast: 10 hours

Up at 6am...blood draw at 8am...sitting

Glucose, Serum...95 (65-99)

BUN...12 (5-26)

Creatinine, serum...0.58 (0.57-1.00 )

eGFR >59 (>59)

BUN/Creatinine Ratio...21 (8-27)

Sodium, serum...142 (135-145) (Salt dose...3/4 teaspoon/day)

Potassium, Serum...3.8 (3.5-5.2) (on 600 mg/day of Klor-Con)

Chloride...104 (97-108)

Carbon Dioxide...24 (20-32)

Calcium, Serum...10.0 (8.7-10.2) (It's going up again...had HPT surgery

2007...hoping the vitamin D caused the increase. Not taking any calcium.)

Aldosterone...12.1 (Adult Upright 4.0-31.0)

Renin Activity, Plasma...2.58 (Upright 1.31-3.95)

Aldos/Renin Ratio...4.7 (0.0-30.0)

Testosterone, Free, Direct...0.3 (0.0-2.2)

Estradiol...40.1 (Luteal phase 43.8-211.0...Postmenopausal <6.0-54.7)

DHEA Sulfate...174.5 (18.9-205.0)

C-Reactive Protein, Cardiac...6.14 (0.0-3.0)************High

Ferritin, Serum...90 (10-291)

Free T3...9.4 (2.0-4.4)*************High Taking 64 mcg Cytomel in 4 doses. My

last sublingual dose of T3 was about 7 hours before the blood draw)

No T4 or TSH results??? Last T4 done on 7-3-09 was....1.0 (5.0-14.0)

My doctor wants me to try adding a small amount of ERFA. Any thoughts?

Opinions deeply appreciated!!! Thanks so much in advance!!!

~Kathy

Previous post (10-23-09) includes the labs listed below plus general information

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/message/24149

August 21, 2009 (taking 37.5 mcg Cytomel)

Triiodothyronine (T3): 141 (85-205)

RT3: <17 (90-350) ----low************

Triiodothyronine, Free , Serum: 2.8 (2.3-4.2)

July 3,2009 (taking 37.5 mcg Cytomel)

Free T3: 3.10 (1.71-3.71)

T3 Uptake: 27.1 (19.8-33.4)

T4: 1.0 (5.0-14.0) ----low*****

TSH: <0.02 (0.20-5.00) ----low***********

FTI: 0.3 (1.7-3.7) ----low************

Ferritin: 60 (11-264)

Glucose: 99 (70-100)

BUN: 12 (7-21)

Creat: 0.7 (0.8-1.6) ----low************

GFR: >60

Sodium: 145 (136-146)

Potassium: 3.9 (3.3-5.1)

Chloride: 108 (98-107) ----high***********

CO2: 27 (21-32)

Calcium: 9.6 (8.4-10.2)

Albumin: 4.5 (3.5-5.2)

Total Protein: 7.7 (6.4-8.3)

A/G Ratio: 1.4 (>1.0)

Alk Phos: 81 (41-133)

ALT 21: (0-55)

AST 18: (5-34)

Bili Total: 0.6 (0.2-1.2)

Anion Gap: 10.0 (6.0-15.0)

Testosterone Free: 0.7 (0.3-1.9)

Testosterone Total: 48 f (8-60)

-----Previous Labs-----

Was taking 75mcg Cytomel...lowered to 37.5mcg on 2/18/09

February 24, 2009

Zinc, Plasma 82 (70-120)

Zinc, RBC 925 (1000-1600) ----Low***********

Testosterone, Free, Direct <0.2 (0.0-2.2)

November 7, 2008 (taking 1.75 gr. of Armour)

WBC 4.1 (4.0 - 10.5)

RBC 4.45 (4.10 - 5.60)

Hemoglobin 13.2 (12.5 - 17.0)

Hemotocrit 39.4 (36.0 - 50.0)

Cholesterol Total 209 (100 - 199) ----High**********

Triglycerides 83 (0- 149)

HDL Cholesterol 79 (>39) mg/dL

********Comment: According to ATP-III Guidelines, HDL-C >59 mg/dL is considered

a negative risk factor for CHD.

VLDL Cholesterol Cal 17 (5 - 40)

LDL Cholesterol 113 (0 - 99) ----High**********

Iron Bind.Cap. (TIBC) 331 (250 - 450)

UIBC 235 (150 - 375)

Iron Serum 96 (40 - 155)

Iron, Saturation 29 (15 - 55)

Ferritin, Serum 64 (10 - 291)

Thyroxine (T4) 9.6 (4.5 - 12.0) ug/dL

T3 Uptake 29 (24 - 39) %

Free Thyroxine Index 2.8 (1.2 - 4.9)

TSH 0.076 (0.450 - 4.500) ----Low***********

Thyroxine T4 Free (Direct) 1.07 (0.61 - 1.76) ng/dL

Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 3.9 (2.3 - 4.2) pg/mL

Reverse T3 325 (90 - 350) pg/mL

(= RT3 ratio of 12)*****

RBC

Folate, Hemolysate 8.7 (not estab.)

Folate, RBC 464 (280 - 791)

Folate (Folic Acid), serum >24.0 (>5.4)(Indeterminate: 3.4 - 5.4) (Deficient

<3.4)

Copper, RBC 71 (Mean, 78 mcg/dL +/- 8.4 (SD); range, 50 - 210)

Chromium, RBC None detected (1.0 - 7.0)----low**********

Potassium, RBC 62 (Mean, 79 mEq/L +/- 8.0 (SD); range, 42 - 150)

Selenium, RBC 460 (Mean, 290 mcg/L +/- 66 (SD); range, 42 - 1400)

Manganese, RBC 7.6 (Mean, 12 mcg/L +/- 3.2 (SD); range, 2.8 - 73mcg/L

Magnesium, RBC 5.4 (4.2 - 6.8)

Vitamin B12 940 (211 - 911) ----High**********

Pregnenolone, MS 96 (Adults <20 - 150)

DHEA-Sulfate 108 (26- 200)

Creatine Kinase, Total, Serum 26 (24 - 173)

PTH-Related Peptide <0.3 (0.0 - 1.5)

PTH, Intact 37 (15 - 65)

Calcium, Serum 9.6 (8.5 - 10.6)

Calcium, Ionized, Serum 5.2 (4.5 - 5.6)

Vitamin D, Hydroxy 37.7 (32.0 - 100.0)

First post with saliva labs 8-28-08

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/message/6752\

\

7

>

> >Is it possible to just add in some ERFA instead of trying to totally swap out

the T3 for all ERFA? Or should I just try to follow the swap out

recommendations and see how it goes?

>

> If you are a bit hypo then you will get away with it.

>

> If you are correctly dosed on T3 then adding a grain will add 9 of T3

> immediatly and could send you hyper.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nick!

Thanks for the reply!!!

I'm currently taking 50 mcg/day of Cytomel (12.5 mcg 4x/day)....so I was

thinking of decreasing the Cytomel a little and adding some ERFA. So...if 1

grain of ERFA is equal to 25 mcg of T3....then maybe I could try 1/4 grain of

ERFA plus 6.25 mcg of T3 for my first 2 doses of the day.....then take 12.5 T3

in the late afternoon and 12.5 T3 at bedtime.

So my 4 doses of T3 + ERFA would look like this....

6.25 T3 + 1/4 gr....6.25 T3 + 1/4 gr....12.5 T3....12.5 T3

What do you think?

Is it okay to take the ERFA and T3 sublingually at the same time?

I had parathyroid surgery in 2007 but I am still having a problem with calcium

and vitamin D (I can't take any D)....so I am hoping that something in the ERFA

might be the missing piece of the puzzle. I know that's probably wishful

thinking so I'll have another RT3 lab done about 2 months after I start the

ERFA.

I included my last post to the adrenal group with labs and history in case

anything in it is helpful. All comments appreciated!!!

Thanks so much!!!

~Kathy

-------previous post to adrenal group------

Labs, Questions and Mistakes 4-26-10

I think I goofed on my aldosterone & renin labs. We have a whole house water

purifier/softener (General Ionics) that uses salt...and yes...dummy me drank the

water during my salt/potassium fast. I was so upset with myself when I realized

what I did. I called the water purifier company and they said the salt in the

water is so slight because it goes thru 5 rinse cycles. So I don't know. Should

I repeat the labs?

Background info

1991...goiter and TSH of 122. Took Synthroid for years.

In 2007 Thyroglobulin Antibodies were 307 (Pos >100)

Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 24 (Neg <60)

December 2008...I had a RT3 ratio of 12 and have been on Cytomel ever since.

At the time of these labs I was taking....

T3 (Cytomel) about 64 mcg/day in 4 doses (Had slight tremor. Now take 50mcg)

HC (cream) 25 mg/day 10+7.5+5+2.5

Sea Salt 1/4 teaspoon 3x/day

Post menopausal...taking Vivelle and Prometrium

Klor Con 600mg/day

Can't take HC pills because it causes a burning sensation.

Pulse averages around 84

Blood pressure at doctor's office... 110/64

Sometimes my BP drops more than 10 points at home using a wrist cuff

....sitting:119/71, standing: 108/62)

My symptoms....

Brain fog

Not enough stamina.

Muscle weakness has improved but I am hoping it will improve a little more.

I still have some muscle tingling especially in my upper chest.

I have spells of horrible insomnia.

My hair is still falling out.

I have heat/cold intolerance. (I froze all winter)

Once in awhile I have slight lightheaded spells (while moving around)

My temps will be stable for a few days and then drop...98.2 to 98.4 then drop to

97.7 to 97.9. It seems like my temps follow the weather...when it gets cold my

temps drop and when it's warm they go up.

A few months before this lab I was taking 2,000 units of vitamin D every other

day. I started feeling awful and having kidney pain and horrible urinary

frequency and urgency. Since the D was the only new thing I added...I quit

taking it and the pain went away and the urinary problems got much better but

not perfect. I quit the D about a month before this lab.

Salt/Potassium fast: about 36 hours (except for the purifier water)

Food fast: 10 hours

Up at 6am...blood draw at 8am...sitting

Glucose, Serum...95 (65-99)

BUN...12 (5-26)

Creatinine, serum...0.58 (0.57-1.00 )

eGFR >59 (>59)

BUN/Creatinine Ratio...21 (8-27)

Sodium, serum...142 (135-145) (Salt dose...3/4 teaspoon/day)

Potassium, Serum...3.8 (3.5-5.2) (on 600 mg/day of Klor-Con)

Chloride...104 (97-108)

Carbon Dioxide...24 (20-32)

Calcium, Serum...10.0 (8.7-10.2) (It's going up again...had HPT surgery

2007...hoping the vitamin D caused the increase. Not taking any calcium.)

Aldosterone...12.1 (Adult Upright 4.0-31.0)

Renin Activity, Plasma...2.58 (Upright 1.31-3.95)

Aldos/Renin Ratio...4.7 (0.0-30.0)

Testosterone, Free, Direct...0.3 (0.0-2.2)

Estradiol...40.1 (Luteal phase 43.8-211.0...Postmenopausal <6.0-54.7)

DHEA Sulfate...174.5 (18.9-205.0)

C-Reactive Protein, Cardiac...6.14 (0.0-3.0)************High

Ferritin, Serum...90 (10-291)

Free T3...9.4 (2.0-4.4)*************High Taking 64 mcg Cytomel in 4 doses. My

last sublingual dose of T3 was about 7 hours before the blood draw)

No T4 or TSH results??? Last T4 done on 7-3-09 was....1.0 (5.0-14.0)

My doctor wants me to try adding a small amount of ERFA. Any thoughts?

Opinions deeply appreciated!!! Thanks so much in advance!!!

~Kathy

Previous post (10-23-09) includes the labs listed below plus general information

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/message/24149

August 21, 2009 (taking 37.5 mcg Cytomel)

Triiodothyronine (T3): 141 (85-205)

RT3: <17 (90-350) ----low************

Triiodothyronine, Free , Serum: 2.8 (2.3-4.2)

July 3,2009 (taking 37.5 mcg Cytomel)

Free T3: 3.10 (1.71-3.71)

T3 Uptake: 27.1 (19.8-33.4)

T4: 1.0 (5.0-14.0) ----low*****

TSH: <0.02 (0.20-5.00) ----low***********

FTI: 0.3 (1.7-3.7) ----low************

Ferritin: 60 (11-264)

Glucose: 99 (70-100)

BUN: 12 (7-21)

Creat: 0.7 (0.8-1.6) ----low************

GFR: >60

Sodium: 145 (136-146)

Potassium: 3.9 (3.3-5.1)

Chloride: 108 (98-107) ----high***********

CO2: 27 (21-32)

Calcium: 9.6 (8.4-10.2)

Albumin: 4.5 (3.5-5.2)

Total Protein: 7.7 (6.4-8.3)

A/G Ratio: 1.4 (>1.0)

Alk Phos: 81 (41-133)

ALT 21: (0-55)

AST 18: (5-34)

Bili Total: 0.6 (0.2-1.2)

Anion Gap: 10.0 (6.0-15.0)

Testosterone Free: 0.7 (0.3-1.9)

Testosterone Total: 48 f (8-60)

-----Previous Labs-----

Was taking 75mcg Cytomel...lowered to 37.5mcg on 2/18/09

February 24, 2009

Zinc, Plasma 82 (70-120)

Zinc, RBC 925 (1000-1600) ----Low***********

Testosterone, Free, Direct <0.2 (0.0-2.2)

November 7, 2008 (taking 1.75 gr. of Armour)

WBC 4.1 (4.0 - 10.5)

RBC 4.45 (4.10 - 5.60)

Hemoglobin 13.2 (12.5 - 17.0)

Hemotocrit 39.4 (36.0 - 50.0)

Cholesterol Total 209 (100 - 199) ----High**********

Triglycerides 83 (0- 149)

HDL Cholesterol 79 (>39) mg/dL

********Comment: According to ATP-III Guidelines, HDL-C >59 mg/dL is considered

a negative risk factor for CHD.

VLDL Cholesterol Cal 17 (5 - 40)

LDL Cholesterol 113 (0 - 99) ----High**********

Iron Bind.Cap. (TIBC) 331 (250 - 450)

UIBC 235 (150 - 375)

Iron Serum 96 (40 - 155)

Iron, Saturation 29 (15 - 55)

Ferritin, Serum 64 (10 - 291)

Thyroxine (T4) 9.6 (4.5 - 12.0) ug/dL

T3 Uptake 29 (24 - 39) %

Free Thyroxine Index 2.8 (1.2 - 4.9)

TSH 0.076 (0.450 - 4.500) ----Low***********

Thyroxine T4 Free (Direct) 1.07 (0.61 - 1.76) ng/dL

Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 3.9 (2.3 - 4.2) pg/mL

Reverse T3 325 (90 - 350) pg/mL

(= RT3 ratio of 12)*****

RBC

Folate, Hemolysate 8.7 (not estab.)

Folate, RBC 464 (280 - 791)

Folate (Folic Acid), serum >24.0 (>5.4)(Indeterminate: 3.4 - 5.4) (Deficient

<3.4)

Copper, RBC 71 (Mean, 78 mcg/dL +/- 8.4 (SD); range, 50 - 210)

Chromium, RBC None detected (1.0 - 7.0)----low**********

Potassium, RBC 62 (Mean, 79 mEq/L +/- 8.0 (SD); range, 42 - 150)

Selenium, RBC 460 (Mean, 290 mcg/L +/- 66 (SD); range, 42 - 1400)

Manganese, RBC 7.6 (Mean, 12 mcg/L +/- 3.2 (SD); range, 2.8 - 73mcg/L

Magnesium, RBC 5.4 (4.2 - 6.8)

Vitamin B12 940 (211 - 911) ----High**********

Pregnenolone, MS 96 (Adults <20 - 150)

DHEA-Sulfate 108 (26- 200)

Creatine Kinase, Total, Serum 26 (24 - 173)

PTH-Related Peptide <0.3 (0.0 - 1.5)

PTH, Intact 37 (15 - 65)

Calcium, Serum 9.6 (8.5 - 10.6)

Calcium, Ionized, Serum 5.2 (4.5 - 5.6)

Vitamin D, Hydroxy 37.7 (32.0 - 100.0)

First post with saliva labs 8-28-08

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/message/6752\

\

7

>

> >Is it possible to just add in some ERFA instead of trying to totally swap out

the T3 for all ERFA? Or should I just try to follow the swap out

recommendations and see how it goes?

>

> If you are a bit hypo then you will get away with it.

>

> If you are correctly dosed on T3 then adding a grain will add 9 of T3

> immediatly and could send you hyper.

>

[Guest guest]

>

>So my 4 doses of T3 + ERFA would look like this....

>6.25 T3 + 1/4 gr....6.25 T3 + 1/4 gr....12.5 T3....12.5 T3

>What do you think?

>

>Is it okay to take the ERFA and T3 sublingually at the same time?

Looking at the pulse/temperature info you gave on the end of there

you are under medicated. The tremor that caused you to lower T3 was

probably adrenal.

Personally I would have gone for an increase in T3, the levels

stabilize 3 days after the increase and it's much easier to adjust

than Erfa.

By all means try adding the Erfa, I wouldn't mess around with 1/4

grain doses, they are too small to do anything.

Just add a 5th dose to the day so on taking you take a grain and then

spread through the day you take 4x12.5

After a week or two if the Erfa is converting the right way

temperature and pulse will rise and you can drop 12.5.

My gut feeling is it won't do any good but it's one of those things we

all try

Nick

--

for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

www.thyroid-rt3.com

[Guest guest]

>my one daughter on NT has started adding in some T3 and is up to 35 mcg of T3

and down to 1 grain NT..her basal temps are good and she is feeling good..should

we just stop here or continue to go off the T3..

Try pausing here to see where it goes

>

>what will her blood work look like as far as RT3 goes...will it give us any

useful info ..she is due to have blood next week....not sure what to do since

she is feelign well now and has good temps???

Write how she feels on the lab slip, if she feels good and

temperatures are good then it's worth knowing those numbers as

something to get back to if she loses the sweet spot

Nick

--

for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

www.thyroid-rt3.com