RE: The Most Fundamental Problem with EMS

[Guest guest]

Yea beat me to it Tom. Back to being lazy for me.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc.

(www.fireandsafetyspecialists.com)

Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World

(www.fireworld.com)

LNMolino@...

Lou@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/FSS Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 8/25/2009 9:59:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

summedic@... writes:

Rob,

So are you implying that all of us that are still practicing EMS providers

are either lazy or stupid? Do you really intend to open that can of

worms? Who is going to attend to you sick or injured loved one in an

emergency,

a lazy or stupid medic? Is that what you want?

Live for today, tomorrow is not here yet and laugh at yourself often

before someone else does.

McGee, EMT-P

From: _rob.davis@..._ (mailto:rob.davis@...)

_rob.davis@..._ (mailto:rob.davis@...) >

Subject: RE: The Most Fundamental Problem with EMS

To: _texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l )

Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 9:48 AM

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 08:21, " Bledsoe "

said:

> Results: For occupational commitment, the participants with certificate

> level of education had a

> significantly higher score (88.9) than did those with either the degree

> (83.6) or postbaccalaureate (80.9)

> level of education.

So what she's saying is that the smart, motivated people get out. Those

too stupid or lazy to find options in life stay. Pretty much been my theory

for thirty years. Glad to see someone validate it.

Rob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

Come on Don this is the stuff we SHOULD be chatting about. One man's

garbage I guess?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc.

(www.fireandsafetyspecialists.com)

Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World

(www.fireworld.com)

LNMolino@...

Lou@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/FSS Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 8/25/2009 10:10:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

delbert@... writes:

Geez.....e-mail him personally and argue-debate-Geez.....e-mail him

personally and argue-debate- discuss this all that

>>> " _rob.davis@..._ (mailto:rob.davis@...) "

_rob.davis@..._ (mailto:rob.davis@...) >

8/25/2009 10:03 AM >>>

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 09:58, " McGee " _summedic@..._

(mailto:summedic@...) > said:

> So are you implying that all of us that are still practicing EMS

providers are

> either lazy or stupid? Do you really intend to open that can of worms?

So are you implying that I'm stupid enough to make a universal assumption

about every practising EMS provider? We're talking statistics here, not

absolutes. Keep your worms to yourself.

Rob

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[Guest guest]

Ah but the topic like seeming all (would not want to make a universal

assumption) disintegrates into verbal hogwash and bickering among the masses be

it here online or in the kitchen at the station or the Mcs parking

lot in a SSM system.

To me that is the " fundamental " problem in EMS overall.

I'm on dozens of lists, some are mostly MD types some RN's some fire folks

and the like and when ever an EMS topic is brought up the same " phenomenon "

occurs at all levels of involvement.

Wonder why?

Could some of my Fire Chief friends be right?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc.

(www.fireandsafetyspecialists.com)

Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World

(www.fireworld.com)

LNMolino@...

Lou@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/FSS Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 8/25/2009 10:30:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

delbert@... writes:

The topic's fine Lou.

>>> _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) > 8/25/2009 10:18 AM >>>

Come on Don this is the stuff we SHOULD be chatting about. One man's

garbage I guess?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/FF/N

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Freelance CoFreelance Consultant/Trainer

Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc.

(www.fireandsafetys(www.firean(www.

Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World

(www.fireworld.(www

_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

_Lou@..._ (mailto:Lou@...)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/FSS Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 8/25/2009 10:10:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

_delbert@..._ (mailto:delbert@...) writes:

Geez.....e-mail him personally and argue-debate-Geez.....Geez.....e-

personally and argue-debate- discuss this all that

>>> " __rob.davis (AT) armynurs_rob (DOT) davis_ (mailto:_rob.davis@...)

_ (mailto:_rob.davis@..._

(mailto:rob.davis@...) ) "

<__rob.davis (AT) armynurs_rob (DOT) davis_ (mailto:_rob.davis@...) _

(mailto:_rob.davis@..._ (mailto:rob.davis@...)

) >

8/25/2009 10:03 AM >>>

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 09:58, " McGee " <__summedic (AT) yahoo (DOT) _su_

(mailto:_summedic@...) _

(mailto:_summedic@..._ (mailto:summedic@...) ) > said:

> So are you implying that all of us that are still practicing EMS

providers are

> either lazy or stupid? Do you really intend to open that can of worms?

So are you implying that I'm stupid enough to make a universal assumption

about every practising EMS provider? We're talking statistics here, not

absolutes. Keep your worms to yourself.

Rob

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Thank you.

===========================================================

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

===========================================================

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[Guest guest]

No doubt the SSM system is a blight on the profession.

Certainly not the only nail in the coffin but one of the bigger ones.

Of course one can also choose to sit in the truck and study their way to a

better job and the " smart " ones often do just that.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc.

(www.fireandsafetyspecialists.com)

Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World

(www.fireworld.com)

LNMolino@...

Lou@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/FSS Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 8/25/2009 10:58:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

rob.davis@... writes:

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:41, _lnmolino@..._

(mailto:lnmolino@...) said:

> ...or the Mcs parking lot in a SSM system.

This comment actually ties relevantly into the subject at hand, Lou. One

need only listen to the radio traffic of an SSM system and compare it to the

radio traffic of a non-SSM system to recognise a palpable difference in

attitude among the providers, which reflects their satisfaction and retention

potential.

Listen to the radio traffic of AMR in Arlington, and notice what a high

percentage of transmissions from the field are groaning, whining, begrudging,

and generally annoyed in their tone, as if every time they have to pick up

their microphone is a whipping. Half the time, they don't even pick up the

microphone. They just yell at it from across the truck.

Compare that to the radio traffic of the Dallas Fire Department, where it

is extremely rare to hear such attitude from an EMS crew. Obviously this is

a non-scientific observation and only intelligent speculation, however it

seems quite likely that SSM is one of the greater factors contributing to

that attitudinal difference. And SSM is an indication of organisational

commitment, which directly affects the commitment level of the individual

provider.

Rob

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/25/2009 12:19:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

When I get up at 0400 to run a call for a toothache, I'm not so much

questioning my intelligence as my sanity!

Why? Every call is an emergency to the caller isn't it?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc.

(www.fireandsafetyspecialists.com)

Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World

(www.fireworld.com)

LNMolino@...

Lou@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/FSS Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

[Guest guest]

Conclusion: Paramedic occupational commitment shows a statistically significant

decrease with increased level of education.

Soooo, how did they define " occupational commitment " ?

Jane Dinsmore

To: texasems-l ; Paramedicine

From: bbledsoe@...

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:21:05 -0500

Subject: The Most Fundamental Problem with EMS

Abstract

Introduction: Emergency medical services (EMS) personnel attrition is a

serious concern. Two

fundamental psychological constructs linked to attrition are organizational

and occupational commitment.

Objective: To determine if there is a relationship between a paramedic's

degree of occupational/

organizational commitment and the following: (1) levels of education and (2)

type of employment.

Methods: This was a cross-sectional study of paramedics in 6 states that

require continued paramedic

national registration. The data collection instrument consisted of

demographic and occupational and

organizational commitment sections. For level of education, the primary

independent variable, each

subject was placed into 1 of 3 groups: (1) certificate, (2) associate's or

bachelor's degree in EMS (degree),

and (3) paramedic certificate or degree with a non-EMS postbaccalaureate

degree. Type of employment

(fire based vs non­fire based) was also used as an independent variable.

Organizational and occupational

commitment was measured using validated scales for each. Analysis of

variance was used for the

comparisons between levels of each of the independent variables. A P b .05

was considered significant.

Results: For occupational commitment, the participants with certificate

level of education had a

significantly higher score (88.9) than did those with either the degree

(83.6) or postbaccalaureate (80.9)

level of education. There were no significant differences for total

organizational commitment. There

were also no overall differences in occupational and organizational

commitment between fire- and

non­fire-based employees.

Conclusion: Paramedic occupational commitment shows a statistically

significant decrease with

increased level of education. Factors associated with commitment of more

highly educated paramedics

need to be explored.

American Journal of Emergency Medicine (2009) 27, 830­837

I have the full article if anybody is interested...

[Guest guest]

Read the whole article. They used a survey that looked various domains and

questions. It was pretty well done. This was ¹s PhD

dissertation at Washington University.

>

>

>

>

>

> Conclusion: Paramedic occupational commitment shows a statistically

> significant decrease with increased level of education.

>

> Soooo, how did they define " occupational commitment " ?

>

> Jane Dinsmore

>

>

> To: texasems-l ;

> Paramedicine

> From: bbledsoe@...

> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:21:05 -0500

> Subject: The Most Fundamental Problem with EMS

>

> Abstract

> Introduction: Emergency medical services (EMS) personnel attrition is a

> serious concern. Two

> fundamental psychological constructs linked to attrition are organizational

> and occupational commitment.

> Objective: To determine if there is a relationship between a paramedic's

> degree of occupational/

> organizational commitment and the following: (1) levels of education and (2)

> type of employment.

> Methods: This was a cross-sectional study of paramedics in 6 states that

> require continued paramedic

> national registration. The data collection instrument consisted of

> demographic and occupational and

> organizational commitment sections. For level of education, the primary

> independent variable, each

> subject was placed into 1 of 3 groups: (1) certificate, (2) associate's or

> bachelor's degree in EMS (degree),

> and (3) paramedic certificate or degree with a non-EMS postbaccalaureate

> degree. Type of employment

> (fire based vs non­fire based) was also used as an independent variable.

> Organizational and occupational

> commitment was measured using validated scales for each. Analysis of

> variance was used for the

> comparisons between levels of each of the independent variables. A P b .05

> was considered significant.

> Results: For occupational commitment, the participants with certificate

> level of education had a

> significantly higher score (88.9) than did those with either the degree

> (83.6) or postbaccalaureate (80.9)

> level of education. There were no significant differences for total

> organizational commitment. There

> were also no overall differences in occupational and organizational

> commitment between fire- and

> non­fire-based employees.

> Conclusion: Paramedic occupational commitment shows a statistically

> significant decrease with

> increased level of education. Factors associated with commitment of more

> highly educated paramedics

> need to be explored.

>

> American Journal of Emergency Medicine (2009) 27, 830­837

>

> I have the full article if anybody is interested...

>

>

[Guest guest]

The other part of the equation is what about those that stay in the field

for the most part but work to get off the truck? Upward mobility is an issue

here and it is a big issue. There are a few places where a true career

path is in place off the truck. when you hit your late 30's those 0330

toothache runs are killers.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc.

(www.fireandsafetyspecialists.com)

Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World

(www.fireworld.com)

LNMolino@...

Lou@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/FSS Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 8/25/2009 12:48:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

summedic@... writes:

Maybe I am naive, but I believe that even this study is still lacking on a

few key variables. Was company commitment and loyalty vs. professional

commitment considered? What about simply taking into consideration those of

us that enter this profession to help our fellow man vs. those that enter

simply as an income? The latter, of course, will almost always seek to

leave for the greater income potential of other fields. I know that there are

numerous opinions on this subject, but I refuse to believe that only the

less committed seek to further their education, or that the rest are lazy.

Those seeking to get rich in this profession are the exception, not the

rule.

Live for today, tomorrow is not here yet and laugh at yourself often

before someone else does.

McGee, EMT-P

From: rob.davis@armynurse corps.com rob.davis@...@armyn>

Subject: RE: The Most Fundamental Problem with EMS

To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com

Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 10:03 AM

?

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 09:58, " McGee "

said:

> So are you implying that all of us that are still practicing EMS

providers are

> either lazy or stupid?? Do you really intend to open that can of worms?

So are you implying that I'm stupid enough to make a universal assumption

about every practising EMS provider? We're talking statistics here, not

absolutes. Keep your worms to yourself.

Rob

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __

[Guest guest]

I once met a Fire Captain from a large new Jersey FD at a class and he

related a story about when he was a Firefighter how this Battalion Chief made

a comment about how while on this 24 hour shift you can do what you want

for about 20 of those hours not counting calls. If you sleep 8 of those hours

that leaves 12 hours. You can read the funny papers and the sports page or

whatever. If you spend a few hours per shift getting a Bachelor degree you

get a 10% bonus, all on city time (IAFF Contract). He took that advice and

in fact got his Master just before I met him. The BC went on to get a PhD

and was eventually the Chief of that department and is now the

Superintendent of the National Fire Academy. All his degrees were for the most

part

earned while he was on City time.

It is a great racket if you play it right.

I have a Son considering the world of fire and EMS he is leaning towards

fire but he also knows that as a Paramedic he'd be more employable his plan

(with my input) is to get his EMT-B then his TCFP and then see if he can't

get a job in either fire or EMS.

Education is always time well spent even in an SSM truck.

CAMY

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc.

(www.fireandsafetyspecialists.com)

Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World

(www.fireworld.com)

LNMolino@...

Lou@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/FSS Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 8/25/2009 12:57:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

rob.davis@... writes:

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:53, _lnmolino@..._

(mailto:lnmolino@...) said:

> Of course one can also choose to sit in the truck and study their way to

a

> better job and the " smart " ones often do just that.

Bingo. Before we get too worked up over the superficial implications of

this study, we have to step back and intelligently consider the deeper and

more significant issues it raises. This is only data, and nothing more. The

absolute meaning of that data is still to be determined.

Rob

[Guest guest]

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 08:21, " Bledsoe " bbledsoe@...>

said:

> Results: For occupational commitment, the participants with certificate

> level of education had a

> significantly higher score (88.9) than did those with either the degree

> (83.6) or postbaccalaureate (80.9)

> level of education.

So what she's saying is that the smart, motivated people get out. Those too

stupid or lazy to find options in life stay. Pretty much been my theory for

thirty years. Glad to see someone validate it.

Rob

[Guest guest]

Gee Rob----you¹re always a beam of sunshine on a cloudy day‹but accurate. I

don¹t think it is stupidity or laziness‹people love the work yet loathe (or

don¹t have access to) the requisite education. Based on ¹s paper,

unless things change EMS will be a blue-collar trade instead of the

profession it should be. Education is the key to survival and financial

security in the 21st century. It remains a shame that my gardener makes more

per hour than many EMTs and he speaks little English and has a 5th grade

education. But he is a good worker and the property looks great. He takes

pride in what he does. Well, back to your regular programming.

On 8/25/09 9:48 AM, " rob.davis@... "

rob.davis@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 08:21, " Bledsoe " bbledsoe@...

> > said:

>

>> > Results: For occupational commitment, the participants with certificate

>> > level of education had a

>> > significantly higher score (88.9) than did those with either the degree

>> > (83.6) or postbaccalaureate (80.9)

>> > level of education.

>

> So what she's saying is that the smart, motivated people get out. Those too

> stupid or lazy to find options in life stay. Pretty much been my theory for

> thirty years. Glad to see someone validate it.

>

> Rob

>

>

>

>

>>

[Guest guest]

Rob,

So are you implying that all of us that are still practicing EMS providers are

either lazy or stupid?  Do you really intend to open that can of worms?  Who is

going to attend to you sick or injured loved one in an emergency, a lazy or

stupid medic?  Is that what you want?

Live for today, tomorrow is not here yet and laugh at yourself often before

someone else does.

 

McGee, EMT-P

 

Subject: RE: The Most Fundamental Problem with EMS

To: texasems-l

Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 9:48 AM

 

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 08:21, " Bledsoe "

said:

> Results: For occupational commitment, the participants with certificate

> level of education had a

> significantly higher score (88.9) than did those with either the degree

> (83.6) or postbaccalaureate (80.9)

> level of education.

So what she's saying is that the smart, motivated people get out. Those too

stupid or lazy to find options in life stay. Pretty much been my theory for

thirty years. Glad to see someone validate it.

Rob

[Guest guest]

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 09:58, " McGee " summedic@...> said:

> So are you implying that all of us that are still practicing EMS providers are

> either lazy or stupid?  Do you really intend to open that can of worms?

So are you implying that I'm stupid enough to make a universal assumption about

every practising EMS provider? We're talking statistics here, not absolutes.

Keep your worms to yourself.

Rob

[Guest guest]

Geez.....e-mail him personally and argue-debate-discuss this all that you want.

This stuff just dilutes the listserve.

>>> " rob.davis@... " rob.davis@...> 8/25/2009

10:03 AM >>>

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 09:58, " McGee " summedic@...> said:

> So are you implying that all of us that are still practicing EMS providers are

> either lazy or stupid? Do you really intend to open that can of worms?

So are you implying that I'm stupid enough to make a universal assumption about

every practising EMS provider? We're talking statistics here, not absolutes.

Keep your worms to yourself.

Rob

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[Guest guest]

Gene, Wes, you both still practice I believe.  What are your thoughts?

Live for today, tomorrow is not here yet and laugh at yourself often before

someone else does.

 

McGee, EMT-P

 

Subject: RE: The Most Fundamental Problem with EMS

To: texasems-l

Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 10:03 AM

 

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 09:58, " McGee " said:

> So are you implying that all of us that are still practicing EMS providers are

> either lazy or stupid?  Do you really intend to open that can of worms?

So are you implying that I'm stupid enough to make a universal assumption about

every practising EMS provider? We're talking statistics here, not absolutes.

Keep your worms to yourself.

Rob

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

The topic's fine Lou.

>>> lnmolino@...> 8/25/2009 10:18 AM >>>

Come on Don this is the stuff we SHOULD be chatting about. One man's

garbage I guess?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc.

(www.fireandsafetyspecialists.com)

Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World

(www.fireworld.com)

LNMolino@...

Lou@...

(Cell Phone)

(IFW/FSS Office)

(IFW/FSS Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 8/25/2009 10:10:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

delbert@... writes:

Geez.....e-mail him personally and argue-debate-Geez.....e-mail him

personally and argue-debate- discuss this all that

>>> " _rob.davis@..._ (mailto:rob.davis@...) "

_rob.davis@..._ (mailto:rob.davis@...) >

8/25/2009 10:03 AM >>>

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 09:58, " McGee " _summedic@..._

(mailto:summedic@...) > said:

> So are you implying that all of us that are still practicing EMS

providers are

> either lazy or stupid? Do you really intend to open that can of worms?

So are you implying that I'm stupid enough to make a universal assumption

about every practising EMS provider? We're talking statistics here, not

absolutes. Keep your worms to yourself.

Rob

===========================================================

This message is confidential, intended only

for the named recipient(s) and may contain

information that is privileged or exempt from

disclosure under applicable law. If you are

not the intended recipient(s)not the intended recip

that the dissemination, distribution or copying

of this message is strictly prohibited. If you

received this message in error, or are not the

named recipient(s)named recipient(s) , p

and delete this e-mail from your computer.

ETMC has implemented secure messaging for

certain types of messages. For more information

about our secure messaging system, go to:

_http://www.etmc.http://ww_ (http://www.etmc.org/mail/)

Thank you.

===========================================================

[Guest guest]

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:41, lnmolino@... said:

> ...or the Mcs parking lot in a SSM system.

This comment actually ties relevantly into the subject at hand, Lou. One need

only listen to the radio traffic of an SSM system and compare it to the radio

traffic of a non-SSM system to recognise a palpable difference in attitude among

the providers, which reflects their satisfaction and retention potential.

Listen to the radio traffic of AMR in Arlington, and notice what a high

percentage of transmissions from the field are groaning, whining, begrudging,

and generally annoyed in their tone, as if every time they have to pick up their

microphone is a whipping. Half the time, they don't even pick up the

microphone. They just yell at it from across the truck.

Compare that to the radio traffic of the Dallas Fire Department, where it is

extremely rare to hear such attitude from an EMS crew. Obviously this is a

non-scientific observation and only intelligent speculation, however it seems

quite likely that SSM is one of the greater factors contributing to that

attitudinal difference. And SSM is an indication of organisational commitment,

which directly affects the commitment level of the individual provider.

Rob

[Guest guest]

In this study, what the result say to me is that there are no more questions

then answers. If we accept the resuls as fact, Then why were those results

reached? Why would someone who has a degree feel that way? Again two questions

baesed on the study.

The results were reached ofcourse because that is what the data pointed to. Why

would someone have that feeling of 'lack of comitment' could be atributed to

outside factors that may or maynot have been mentioned in the full study such

ecnomic and social. Is it possible that those who have higher education feel

unhappy in EMS becuase they donot think they are getting the money thay their

degree should allow them? Yes I think, but again that is an opinion only. Social

factors could also be comming from family who want a better quaility of life

that the medics pay does not allow. These are just two things that may make

someone unhappy in EMS and may lessen their comitment and desire for the job.

   Like I said this study asks more questions then it answers. So rather then

get mad at eachouther read it and learn from it and even if we as individuals

cannot make EMS in what we want it to be. We can make ourselves into what we

want to be. 

[Guest guest]

True very true you cannot expect anyone to be happy when they spend most of

their working day sitting in a shoebox in the hot sun. AMR and all the other

privet EMS post their medics of course to be closer to calls we know this. It is

the medics who sit in the hotsun and the owners who sit in the AC. So yea that

does make medics unhappy

 

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:41, lnmolino (AT) aol (DOT) com said:

> ...or the Mcs parking lot in a SSM system.

This comment actually ties relevantly into the subject at hand, Lou. One need

only listen to the radio traffic of an SSM system and compare it to the radio

traffic of a non-SSM system to recognise a palpable difference in attitude among

the providers, which reflects their satisfaction and retention potential.

Listen to the radio traffic of AMR in Arlington, and notice what a high

percentage of transmissions from the field are groaning, whining, begrudging,

and generally annoyed in their tone, as if every time they have to pick up their

microphone is a whipping. Half the time, they don't even pick up the microphone.

They just yell at it from across the truck.

Compare that to the radio traffic of the Dallas Fire Department, where it is

extremely rare to hear such attitude from an EMS crew. Obviously this is a

non-scientific observation and only intelligent speculation, however it seems

quite likely that SSM is one of the greater factors contributing to that

attitudinal difference. And SSM is an indication of organisational commitment,

which directly affects the commitment level of the individual provider.

Rob

[Guest guest]

I`m curious does anyone have a statistic or number of how many EMS

systems in Texas are FD based vs. 3rd city services, or county run

services?

-chris

> On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:41, lnmolino@... said:

>

> > ...or the Mcs parking lot in a SSM system.

>

> This comment actually ties relevantly into the subject at hand, Lou.

> One need only listen to the radio traffic of an SSM system and

> compare it to the radio traffic of a non-SSM system to recognise a

> palpable difference in attitude among the providers, which reflects

> their satisfaction and retention potential.

>

> Listen to the radio traffic of AMR in Arlington, and notice what a

> high percentage of transmissions from the field are groaning,

> whining, begrudging, and generally annoyed in their tone, as if

> every time they have to pick up their microphone is a whipping. Half

> the time, they don't even pick up the microphone. They just yell at

> it from across the truck.

>

> Compare that to the radio traffic of the Dallas Fire Department,

> where it is extremely rare to hear such attitude from an EMS crew.

> Obviously this is a non-scientific observation and only intelligent

> speculation, however it seems quite likely that SSM is one of the

> greater factors contributing to that attitudinal difference. And SSM

> is an indication of organisational commitment, which directly

> affects the commitment level of the individual provider.

>

> Rob

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When I get up at 0400 to run a call for a toothache, I'm not so much questioning

my intelligence as my sanity!

-Wes

RE: The Most Fundamental Problem with EMS

To: texasems-l

Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 10:03 AM

?

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 09:58, " McGee " said:

> So are you implying that all of us that are still practicing EMS providers are

> either lazy or stupid?? Do you really intend to open that can of worms?

So are you implying that I'm stupid enough to make a universal assumption about

every practising EMS provider? We're talking statistics here, not absolutes.

Keep your worms to yourself.

Rob

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Maybe I am naive, but I believe that even this study is still lacking on a few

key variables.  Was company commitment and loyalty vs. professional commitment

considered?  What about simply taking into consideration those of us that enter

this profession to help our fellow man vs. those that enter simply as an

income?  The latter, of course, will almost always seek to leave for the greater

income potential of other fields.  I know that there are numerous opinions on

this subject, but I refuse to believe that only the less committed seek to

further their education, or that the rest are lazy.  Those seeking to get rich

in this profession are the exception, not the rule. 

Live for today, tomorrow is not here yet and laugh at yourself often before

someone else does.

 

McGee, EMT-P

 

From: rob.davis@armynurse corps.com

Subject: RE: The Most Fundamental Problem with EMS

To: texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com

Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 10:03 AM

?

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 09:58, " McGee " said:

> So are you implying that all of us that are still practicing EMS providers are

> either lazy or stupid?? Do you really intend to open that can of worms?

So are you implying that I'm stupid enough to make a universal assumption about

every practising EMS provider? We're talking statistics here, not absolutes.

Keep your worms to yourself.

Rob

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __

[Guest guest]

Yea but Wes that toothache is just as important to the caller as the Heart

Attack is. Just comes with the job.

Henry

RE: The Most Fundamental Problem with EMS

To: texasems-l

Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 10:03 AM

?

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 09:58, " McGee " said:

> So are you implying that all of us that are still practicing EMS providers

are

> either lazy or stupid?? Do you really intend to open that can of worms?

So are you implying that I'm stupid enough to make a universal assumption

about every practising EMS provider? We're talking statistics here, not

absolutes. Keep your worms to yourself.

Rob

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:53, lnmolino@... said:

> Of course one can also choose to sit in the truck and study their way to a

> better job and the " smart " ones often do just that.

Bingo. Before we get too worked up over the superficial implications of this

study, we have to step back and intelligently consider the deeper and more

significant issues it raises. This is only data, and nothing more. The

absolute meaning of that data is still to be determined.

Rob

[Guest guest]

Agreed, but if the data is flawed or skewed due to unforseen variables, then the

data itself is subject to incorrect evaluation.

Live for today, tomorrow is not here yet and laugh at yourself often before

someone else does.

 

McGee, EMT-P

 

Subject: Re: The Most Fundamental Problem with EMS

To: texasems-l

Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 12:55 PM

 

On Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:53, lnmolino (AT) aol (DOT) com said:

> Of course one can also choose to sit in the truck and study their way to a

> better job and the " smart " ones often do just that.

Bingo. Before we get too worked up over the superficial implications of this

study, we have to step back and intelligently consider the deeper and more

significant issues it raises. This is only data, and nothing more. The absolute

meaning of that data is still to be determined.

Rob

__________________________________________________