Re: Thoughts on thyroid hormone resistance NOT caused by RT3

[Guest guest]

Nick I agree 100%! I too think I am one of thise people wiht tissue

resistance. There IS literature about this and some forms of it are

hereditary. My Mother was VERY hyop herself adn never diagnosed. Suicide

at 35 yeras young was the result and one of the reasons I have been

determined not to follow in her shoes and to try to correct th problems

for others. He fater was also a suicide at 45 years old and her brother

had his thyroid out at 19 years old due ot a " malformed gland " which

suddenly started producing thyriod storm. He has been on Thyrolar and

hypo and so miserable he has run off all his family including 7 children

and three wives that could not live near him. SO we ALL got this damned

gene for messed up thyroid. I am the only one thta was diagnosed with

Hashi's. But it is worse than JUST Hashi's. Even treated NONE of us

responded normally.

--

http://nthadrenalsweb.org/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://faqhelp.webs.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

[Guest guest]

>

>Nick I agree 100%!

Thanks, I'm glad it's making sense. My mum wasn't that bad but was

always a " large lady " and that's such a marker for these issues. The

TSH test being taken as a definitive answer has so much to answer for.

Nick

[Guest guest]

>There IS literature about this and some forms of it are

>hereditary

A quick google showed this

http://www.annals.org/content/125/7/623.2.full

>Further understanding awaited cloning of the ß-receptor by Weinberger and

colleagues in 1986. We subsequently cloned the a-receptor in 1988. Also in 1988,

Usala and coworkers showed a link between the phenotype of resistance to thyroid

hormone and the thyroid hormone receptor gene on chromosome 3. Sequencing of the

receptor led us to submit a paper on 21 August 1989 [4]; this paper reported

that a mutated receptor causes thyroid hormone resistance. In 1992, our

laboratory reported the second cause of thyroid hormone resistance, homozygous

deletion of thyroid hormone receptor-ß [5].

and

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686955/

>Resistance to thyroid hormone (RTH) is a syndrome characterized by reduced

sensitivity to the thyroid hormone. It is generally caused by mutations in the

thyroid hormone receptor ß (TRß) gene. On the basis of its clinical features,

two different forms of this syndrome have been described: generalized resistance

and pituitary

Why is it so hard to get Dr's to even recognize that RT3 causes this,

let alone that there are identifiable gene mutations that do.

Do you know if Holtorf or any of the respected thyroid Drs check genes

for mutation?

Nick

[Guest guest]

I do think Holtorf has done some research into this but it is considered

RARE so whether he is actually testing for it or not is anyone's guess.

WHat I have found abou " rare " things is thye stay rare until someone

actually starts lookign for them.. Like RT3! And Hypothyroid Cats! Funny

I have two confirmed of my 8.. that to me is NOT rare.

--

http://nthadrenalsweb.org/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://faqhelp.webs.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

[Guest guest]

Nick and ,

Thank you for sharing your stories; Nick's assessment makes so much sense...I suspect I've had Thyroid Resistance most of my life (I'm 49.) My temp was *always* low; 96.8 was my "normal," even in my pre-teens. Whenever I was sick and feverish, I was told I was "fine" because the thermometer registered normal! My sister was dx'd Hashi's in her late teens, suffers numerous serious health and emotional issues, and continues to stay on T4 only, living (and dying) by the TSH and the docs who promote it.

Meanwhile, I'm working on correcting this condition, gobbling up every bit information I can find, which is a much easier task thanks to the homework both of you have done.

Thank you both for your time and dedication to getting the truth out to those of us willing to learn!

[Guest guest]

>And Hypothyroid Cats! Funny

>I have two confirmed of my 8.. that to me is NOT rare.

I'm convinced one of ours may be, he's 16 though so I'm not going to

investigate, he's at that time of life that a lot of sleeping is in

order.

On the subject of causes of hypo if people are concerned about

Fluorine and Bromine affecting thyroid issues and Iodine is the source

of thyroid hormone has anyone researched Chlorine which is in drinking

water all over the " civilized world " . They are all halons in the same

column of the periodic table.

Quick google on these thoughts shows this

http://www.space-age.com/hypothyroidism.html

>Avoid fluoride (including that found in toothpaste and tap water) and chlorine

(also found in tap water). Chlorine and fluoride block iodine receptors in the

Thyroid gland resulting in reduced iodine-containing hormone production and

finally in Hypothyroidism.

The rest of that article is quite interesting too

Nick

[Guest guest]

Yes adn I really think fluoride especially has a lot to do with the

current hypothyrid epidemic as it is affecting ALL doonmestice species.

What do we ALL have in common but the water we drink? SO far I have not

heard of wild animals being affected, but I suspect from run-off they

soon will be. I htink 50-70% of the dogs I groom are yhpothyroid, and

horses it i bad in as well.

--

http://nthadrenalsweb.org/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://faqhelp.webs.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

[Guest guest]

Sounds like my story in a way. I also have cellular resistance for some reason nobody knows about. Maybe amalgam/mercury from filligs... Its likely that!Sendt fra min iPhoneDen 7. mai 2010 kl. 13.06 skrev Nick Foot :

Hi

I've been thinking about the subject of thyroid hormone resistance and

want to bounce some ideas around.

My starting point on this journey was a 36C body temperature and a bad

dose of brain fog.

I started on Natural (at that time the JMI brand) around 10 years ago

and had to get up to 6 grains spread in 3 doses before I felt well.

Over the following 9 years I found I needed yearly increases until 12

months ago I was on 12 grains and functioning reasonably well. Armour

then reformulated, I crashed, came back to the Internet and found out

about RT3.

After a 3 month course of T3 only I cleared the resistance related to

RT3 and felt a lot better, I have continued improving since then while

staying on T3 only. I had to increase dose from my post clearance dose

and I am now functioning well with no hyper symptoms on a dose

fluctuating between 150 and 175 of T3 a day.

I don't have labs but I am sure my FT3 will be over range on that

dose. I have a temperature running slightly low still, typically

around 36.8 in the afternoon. I am sleeping well and generally feel a

lot better than I have for probably 40 years looking back.

My working theory for what has happened to me is that I have "tissue

resistance to thyroid hormone" from some unknown cause (probably

genetic, my mother was not diagnosed but I suspect she was hypo). On a

T4/T3 combination I needed a large dose to get enough T3 into me, that

led to excessive RT3 production from the excess T4, and caused

resistance to build up more, this time RT3 being the cause. Once the

RT3 had cleared I was then back down to my "starting level of

resistance" and need to take a dose of T3 that is considerable higher

than "average" to overcome that. If I ever took enough Natural or T4

to give me the amount of T3 that I need to function then resistance

would start building immediately.

For people like me who have tissue resistance from some other cause

apart from RT3 then "T3 only " is the only way of treating it that is

not going to lead to worsening resistance.

I suspect I am in an extreme minority and "most people's" resistance

is caused only by RT3 but it's worth bearing in mind that there are

more causes of resistance than RT3 and that all resistance may not

clear after RT3 is cleared. In that case an "above range" FT3 will be

necessary for them to clear hypo sysmtoms and temperature and pulse

rate remain the mosr reliable indicators of metabolic status.

Sorry this is a bit long but I am thinking out loud as it were.

Nick

[Guest guest]

One of mine is 17 soon ot be 18 and she just recently started acting

differnt. Slower and lost some weight. I took her ot the vet for total

blood work, the onyl thing I saw was low T3 adn bottom of range

potassium which the vet thoght wa purfectly fine. I bought some NOW

powdered potassium adn she is now on 6.25mcg T3 a day wiht potasisum uin

her food, and she is back running and playign agian. It is never too old

to correct a health issue!

--

http://nthadrenalsweb.org/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://faqhelp.webs.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

[Guest guest]

Wow, so much I want to say. But it is sounding way too confusing.

I want to say I read in a book that thyroid homrone resistacne was a whole lot

more common than it is now. It sounds more like a mindset than a differne in

resistance issue with folks. I've mentioned resistance as a possible issue and

pretty much was ignored. How ridiculous is that? Like the hormone in the

blood can't get into the cells. Don't be silly.

What about Thyroid Hormone Antibodies. I would love to be tested for this? I

am collecting research, now need to read it.

As stated, a genetic component is indicated.

Not enough Iodine?? Apparently, in 70s swithced from iodine to bromine as a

bread conditiner.. lots of thyroid since then.

I wonder if rT3 is a cause or a symptom of resistance?

I am working with a doc who works with nutritional deficiences and my need for

meds has decreased. With Hashi's it won't go away, but less is good. (

of " The Calcium Lie " )

He has me reducing clacium and taking lots of supplements.. lots of salt and

otrher minerals. many folks get too much Calcium and not enough salt and the

resulting mineral imbalances can create havoc in the body.

on Armour. not T3 only, my rT3 seems to have gone from almost 60 to 32 in the

past year. Now in range (last week's), but at the way tippy top (32).

I know my family has something thyroid related. Is it a passed on nutritional

deficiency, or a gene or both? Only two of us are confirmed with Hashi's. The

others I don't know. I've done everything I can do to help andf am trying fery

hard to bitew my tounguewhen things are brought up. I have few friends like

that as well. Makes me crazy. They think I'm a whacko.. no comment, please.

)~

I have to leave. I need to visit the vampire today. I get to redo the rT3 and

fT3 as my fT3 sat in an airplane too long and was thrown out...

This was fast and there is soo much to approach on this. I'll see if anything

condenses that would add...

Never Give Up! j()

>

> Hi

>

> I've been thinking about the subject of thyroid hormone resistance and

> want to bounce some ideas around.

[Guest guest]

Here's another article I traced down by looking at reference lists for the

articles you provided... I haven't read it through, but based on the skim, it

looks like something I want to look at more thoroghly..

http://www.annals.org/content/123/8/572.full.pdf+html

Genetic and Clinical Features of 42 Kindreds with Resistance to Thyroid Hormone

Resistance to thyroid hormone, first described by Refe-toff and coworkers in

1967 (1), is characterized by decreased pituitary and tissue responsiveness to

thyroid hormone. Patients typically have elevated serum free and total

triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4) levels and inappropriately normal or

elevated thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) levels. The phenotype is

heterogeneous; classic features include attention-deficit hyperactivity

disorder, growth delay, and tachycardia (2, 3).

j

-----------------------

>

> >There IS literature about this and some forms of it are

> >hereditary

>

[Guest guest]

Here's another article I traced down by looking at reference lists for the

articles you provided... I haven't read it through, but based on the skim, it

looks like something I want to look at more thoroghly..

http://www.annals.org/content/123/8/572.full.pdf+html

Genetic and Clinical Features of 42 Kindreds with Resistance to Thyroid Hormone

Resistance to thyroid hormone, first described by Refe-toff and coworkers in

1967 (1), is characterized by decreased pituitary and tissue responsiveness to

thyroid hormone. Patients typically have elevated serum free and total

triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4) levels and inappropriately normal or

elevated thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) levels. The phenotype is

heterogeneous; classic features include attention-deficit hyperactivity

disorder, growth delay, and tachycardia (2, 3).

j

-----------------------

>

> >There IS literature about this and some forms of it are

> >hereditary

>

[Guest guest]

Here's another article I traced down by looking at reference lists for the

articles you provided... I haven't read it through, but based on the skim, it

looks like something I want to look at more thoroghly..

http://www.annals.org/content/123/8/572.full.pdf+html

Genetic and Clinical Features of 42 Kindreds with Resistance to Thyroid Hormone

Resistance to thyroid hormone, first described by Refe-toff and coworkers in

1967 (1), is characterized by decreased pituitary and tissue responsiveness to

thyroid hormone. Patients typically have elevated serum free and total

triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4) levels and inappropriately normal or

elevated thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) levels. The phenotype is

heterogeneous; classic features include attention-deficit hyperactivity

disorder, growth delay, and tachycardia (2, 3).

j

-----------------------

>

> >There IS literature about this and some forms of it are

> >hereditary

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Nick,

I thought i'd share with you my story that agrees with your theory.

I'm 21 male and have been sick most of my life. I am 6 ft 3 and only 138 pounds.

As a kid i was always coming down with infections. I always struggled to get up

in the morning.. had dry skin, IBS, brain fog and was extremely sensitive to the

cold. My health has deteriorated to the point where i can barely keep my life

going anymore.

I discovered this forum last year when my TSH came back high after a brief

period of me trying some Kelp from the advice of a nutjob on curezone.. the kelp

made me so depressed and it was the worst i'd felt in my life. After stopping it

i re did my labs which now read about the same.

TSH 2.4

FT3 5.2 (3.5-6.5)

FT4 18.1 (10-19)

Ferritin 195 (20-300)

Cortisol - high in blood, optimal in urine and a little low in saliva.

B12 - top of range

Vitamin D - mid range

ACTH Stim - 600, 812, 1024 (increase by 200 each coll) Optimal

CT Scan - No pit tumor

Urine Test:

Creatinine 3024 (1000-2000) HIGH

Growth Hormone 124 (200-1000) LOW

T3 2000 (1300-5340) LOW/NORMAL

T3/Creatinine Ratio 600 (700-) LOW

I have had poor circulation my whole life and i feel like a 70 yr old at the age

of 21. The advice i got on here was to correct the things that have caused the

RT3. But everything is pretty much perfect. The fact that i have exhibited

symptoms my whole life tell me that i have been unable to use the hormone due to

a genetic resistance. My mum has many hypo symptoms so does my sister but they

have normal labs.

I have classical resistance traits.. being very skinny is one of them. Meaning

the hormones are high in your blood so u experience hyper symptoms but they

aren't getting to the cell so you hypo too.

I haven't started T3 Cytomel yet. I only hope it will work.

Genetic thyroid resistance can manifest differently. Some people develop

retardation and deformities from childhood. These are the extremes. Many other

people can suffer from moderate or mild resistance and feel average for years

until the deleterious effects start to show in every aspect and bring everything

else down.

I've always considered myself a bit unique/weird. But many thyroid experts

consider this to be much more common than you think.

Good stuff Nick, i hope my story helps to shed some light.

Todd

>

> Hi

>

> I've been thinking about the subject of thyroid hormone resistance and

> want to bounce some ideas around.

>

> My starting point on this journey was a 36C body temperature and a bad

> dose of brain fog.

>

> I started on Natural (at that time the JMI brand) around 10 years ago

> and had to get up to 6 grains spread in 3 doses before I felt well.

>

> Over the following 9 years I found I needed yearly increases until 1

> months ago I was on 12 grains and functioning reasonably well. Armour

> then reformulated, I crashed, came back to the Internet and found out

> about RT3.

>

> After a 3 month course of T3 only I cleared the resistance related to

> RT3 and felt a lot better, I have continued improving since then while

> staying on T3 only. I had to increase dose from my post clearance dose

> and I am now functioning well with no hyper symptoms on a dose

> fluctuating between 150 and 175 of T3 a day.

>

> I don't have labs but I am sure my FT3 will be over range on that

> dose. I have a temperature running slightly low still, typically

> around 36.8 in the afternoon. I am sleeping well and generally feel a

> lot better than I have for probably 40 years looking back.

>

> My working theory for what has happened to me is that I have " tissue

> resistance to thyroid hormone " from some unknown cause (probably

> genetic, my mother was not diagnosed but I suspect she was hypo). On a

> T4/T3 combination I needed a large dose to get enough T3 into me, that

> led to excessive RT3 production from the excess T4, and caused

> resistance to build up more, this time RT3 being the cause. Once the

> RT3 had cleared I was then back down to my " starting level of

> resistance " and need to take a dose of T3 that is considerable higher

> than " average " to overcome that. If I ever took enough Natural or T4

> to give me the amount of T3 that I need to function then resistance

> would start building immediately.

>

> For people like me who have tissue resistance from some other cause

> apart from RT3 then " T3 only " is the only way of treating it that is

> not going to lead to worsening resistance.

>

> I suspect I am in an extreme minority and " most people's " resistance

> is caused only by RT3 but it's worth bearing in mind that there are

> more causes of resistance than RT3 and that all resistance may not

> clear after RT3 is cleared. In that case an " above range " FT3 will be

> necessary for them to clear hypo sysmtoms and temperature and pulse

> rate remain the mosr reliable indicators of metabolic status.

>

> Sorry this is a bit long but I am thinking out loud as it were.

>

> Nick

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Stan,

Most people don't understand what i have been through so young. I think after

researching and seeing specialist after specialist and trialling different

things that i have found my problem.

My only worry is about my low growth hormone levels which was found in my urine

test. My IGF-1 was just below mid range in serum, but urine was very low. I have

never felt my sleep to be restorative so i think i must have had this for a

while. The curious thing is i am 6 ft 3! And my parents aren't overly tall!

Weird.

I am hoping that the T3 can lift my growth hormone levels. I have heard Val say

that this can happen. Fingers crossed. Any thoughts?

Todd

> >

> > >

> > >I've always considered myself a bit unique/weird. But many thyroid

> experts consider this to be much more common than you think.

> > >

> > >Good stuff Nick, i hope my story helps to shed some light.

> >

> > Thanks for that, good luck on your journey, with that FT4 level you

> > will have a lot of RT3 about and T3 only will make a big difference to

> > you.

> >

> > You may well need to stay on it permanently, it's worth it. Please let

> > us know how you do on T3 only.

> >

> > You sound like me as a youngster, I'm 54 now and wish I had found this

> > years ago.

> >

> > Nick

> >

> > --

> >

> > for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

> >

> > www.thyroid-rt3.com

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Yeah it seems i was born with genetic resistance, i then compensated for my

lack of 'usable' thyroid with increased nervous system activity.. i was always

very nervous growing up. With elevated T4 i became very skinny and my body

probably created RT3 in order to slow things down. So i feel i am similar to you

in that i have resistance underneath the RT3.

>

> Lab tests don't work for us because it is happening at cellular level. There

are hundreds of gene mutations that can interfere with T3 absorption.

>

> I would definitely need to stay on it permanently, seeing as i have been

moderately thyroid resistant since birth.

>

> I will keep you updated. I only hope that one the treatment works and two that

i can reverse most of the damage it has caused over the past 21 years.

>

> Todd

Todd,

I have a little theory about thyroid resistance. Maybe it has been discussed

before. We know that the thyroid gland stores t4 and t3 and releases them into

the blood stream as needed. Now my idea is that blood may not be a very

effective place to contain all the t4 and t3 that some people need, so all sorts

of funky things start to happen, such as rt3 and tissue resistance. In my case,

my thyroid gland is non existent due to 25 years of Hashi's and replacement

therapy so I need a very large dose to function. Maybe my blood freaks out with

this large dose and doesn't know what to do with so much. This is why I have

high hopes in moving to T3 only divided into many small doses. It makes so much

sense to me.

Maureen

>