RE: Seconday Adrenal Insufficiency?

[Guest guest]

My ACTH came back normal and I am primary. I suppose most people hope for

secondary because you don't have the damaged adrenal cortex.

Yes, you read that correctly. The main difference is in primary, the

pituitary is sending out messages " make more cortisol " but the damaged or

exhausted adrenals cannot. In secondary, something is messing up the

communication and the pituitary isn't sending the signal out (or in cases of

tumors, can't because it is compromised). In secondary these is more hope

for reversal because often in primary (especially late stages) there is

damage to the adrenal cortex. 's is 90% or more damage.

Usually with pituitary your sex hormones will be way off in testing.

Treatment (other than tumors) is fundamentally the same though in both with

low cortisol...cortisol supplementation.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I had read that in typcial primary AI, the ACTH will usually be

high, while in secondary AI, the ACTH is typcially low or can be low

normal. It is only that the literature suggested that in cases of

secondary AI, there was pituitary involvement. It is certainly

possible I have a poor understanding of the literature, since I have

just started reading in the last month.

:-)

.

[Guest guest]

I also KNOW that I have a low histamine condition called histapenia whereby my

histamine levels are too low and this also causes a number of symptoms,

including depression, anxiety and panic attacks. Histamine is a necessary

neurotransmittor for the brain and low thyroid seems to be tied into it. It's

caused by excess copper.

RE: Seconday Adrenal Insufficiency?

You have HPA issues with both primary and secondary adrenal fatigue and a

host of other conditions. I wonder how many toxins are stored in the brain?

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I am currently experiencing severe seasonal affective disorder and I

started light therapy three days ago. I also am low in T3 and trying to work

on that. I would say that based on how I feel, my hypothalamus is definitely

dysregulated at this point.

.

[Guest guest]

I totally agree. From the moment I found I was hpyo, I started

looking into my psych meds and their effect on my endocrine system.

Very frightening to say the least. Also, I found that SSRIs may

reduce ciculating thyroid hormones, esp t4.

I tried Armour and felt the best I ever felt in years mood-wise.

Sadly, I was unable to tolerate it for more than a month and never

got a chance to try the optimum does (got up to 60 for a momth, then

downhill from there)

The t3 definately produced a positive result, as well as the erlier

t4 treatment (thoough to a lesser extent). But, no quesiton thyroid

hormone treatment allowed me to cut back on my meds. I still was not

able to cut them out altogether, and I guess good I did not since

once the thyroid med intolerance started, psych symptoms flared up.

My endo told me that many of the newer psych drugs act significantly

on the endocrine system. It is a crime the way I have been treated

from a medical standpoint. But my psychiatrist sees no relationship

between the hypo and my anxiety/depression, and most recently was

totally unrespinsive to my discussion about Seroquel's effect on my

cortisol. I told her about the salvia tests...but no recognition.

Oh well.

I will take your suggestion of working on the adrenals first and

then adding back the thyroid hormones. I am due for a test in a few

weeks to see how my thyroid is doing. The, maybe I can work on

getting rid of the Seroquel.

I guess since I am essentiallly a psych meds guinee pig, I will not

have an answer to my quesiton about my situaiton. Only time will

tell.

>

> Oh Gosh,

>

> If there were anyway you could not take that poison seroquel, I

would avoid it like the plague. They had me on zyprexa for awhile.

These neuroleptic drugs are bad news. First of all, they cause

diabetes. There are many lawsuits pending on that issue. Second,

they have even been known to cause pituitary tumors. Meanwhile,

taking them is like undergoing a chemical lobotomy. Is there anyway

you can get off this drug? I know all of this firsthand because I

was on Zyprexa for almost one year and would you believe it was all

because I had an adverse reaction to prozac that they stuck me on

this crap? I never needed to go on any drugs. I just needed a

couple of days for the prozac reaction to pass. I HATE the

psychiatric medical system as they never get to the root cause of

anything.

>

>

> Re: Seconday Adrenal Insufficiency?

>

>

> I've not heard of Seroquel, so did a quick Google - it's a

benzo?

> And you're taking for anxiety or depression? I don't think this

> would explain your low ACTH. The main reason for finding out if

you

> are primary or secondary is to know of you will be on HC for

life, or

> will be able to wean some day. But given your low ACTH, I'd go

with

> secondary. You can always try to wean some day in the future,

and

> your body will let you know quick if that won't work.

>

> Definitely stay off the thyroid meds until you get your adrenals

> supported. And please be sure to take your temps at 3, 6 and 9

hours

> after rising then calculate and plot the average (per

> www.drrind.com). You want stable averages (not varying by more

than

> 0.2 degrees from day to day) before starting back on thyroid

meds.

> And don't forget sea salt, vit. C and a good B multi. to support

your

> adrenals as well.

>

> - Janet

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I will ask my endo about this when I next see her. At least she is

open to my quesitons and doesn't treat me like I am imagining

everything...you know, once they see you are on psych meds, drs tend

to disregard everything one says...

With regard to my sex hormones, another endo said " if you are having

regualr periods, there is nothing wrong with your endocrine system " .

How about that?

I may order online tests for DHEA-s and some of the reproductive

hormone tests, just to validate the saliva test results.

>

> My ACTH came back normal and I am primary. I suppose most people

hope for

> secondary because you don't have the damaged adrenal cortex.

>

> Yes, you read that correctly. The main difference is in primary,

the

> pituitary is sending out messages " make more cortisol " but the

damaged or

> exhausted adrenals cannot. In secondary, something is messing up

the

> communication and the pituitary isn't sending the signal out (or

in cases of

> tumors, can't because it is compromised). In secondary these is

more hope

> for reversal because often in primary (especially late stages)

there is

> damage to the adrenal cortex. 's is 90% or more damage.

>

> Usually with pituitary your sex hormones will be way off in

testing.

>

> Treatment (other than tumors) is fundamentally the same though in

both with

> low cortisol...cortisol supplementation.

>

> Cheri

> -----Original Message-----

>

>

>

> I had read that in typcial primary AI, the ACTH will usually be

> high, while in secondary AI, the ACTH is typcially low or can be

low

> normal. It is only that the literature suggested that in cases of

> secondary AI, there was pituitary involvement. It is certainly

> possible I have a poor understanding of the literature, since I

have

> just started reading in the last month.

>

> :-)

> .

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On of my ACTH stim tests (done about 11:00am), the starting number was a little

bit low,

but the response was only about 3 points. My second test was done at 9:00 am,

and the

starting number was normal but in the low range, and again the response was only

about

3 points. Would this be primary or secondary?

My doctor had mentioned a couple of times that he was suspecting pituitary

problems, but

when he put me on the HC he didn't tell me what the exact diagnosis was. I'll be

going

back to him pretty soon so I'll see what he says then.

Carol H.

>

> Hey Val,

>

> MY ACTH stim test still didn't tell the endo whether my adrenal insufficiency

was

adrenal or pituitary. He still doesn't know what's causing it, although he

ruled out

pituitary by checking LH, FSH and estrogen, and meanwhile, ultrasound of the

adrenals is

normal and so were adrenal antibodies. If you ask this endo what's causing my

adrenal

insufficiency (and he really is good) I was impressed with him; he'll tell you

he has no idea.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lol. I was never on psych meds and all my docs (except my neurologist)

disregarded what I had to say so I think this is just an issue with doctors

incompetence in general.

On the periods, bull. I had regular periods (but very heavy) for years and

my whole endocrine system has been screwed up for years. That is only ONE

indication and not the end all, be all. I knew my hormones were an issue at

age 20 already and could not get docs to take me seriously through my late

30s until I gave up and just started things on my own. My endo was useless.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I will ask my endo about this when I next see her. At least she is

open to my quesitons and doesn't treat me like I am imagining

everything...you know, once they see you are on psych meds, drs tend

to disregard everything one says...

With regard to my sex hormones, another endo said " if you are having

regualr periods, there is nothing wrong with your endocrine system " .

How about that?

I may order online tests for DHEA-s and some of the reproductive

hormone tests, just to validate the saliva test results.

.

[Guest guest]

I think MOST people on psych meds really have thyroid and adrenal issues

causing the mental issues. This is certainly true for me that they are the

cause, and I never did go the prescription route. I just instinctively knew

there was more to the story. A relative of mine got off all meds (was on 7)

and treated with natural things and got her thyroid better and is fine. She

had been very suicidal with electro-shock treatments and everything. The

drugs were making her worse. It took me a long time to convince her to try

some alternative routes and talking her down from committing suicide was

nearly a daily thing.

" But my psychiatrist sees no relationship between the hypo and my

anxiety/depression "

RUN, RUN, RUN from that psychiatrist. I read MANY medical journals and even

in the psychiatric ones they talk about thyroid as an issue in depression.

Your doc is a total idiot if s/he doesn't know this. Adrenal connection is

less recognized but the thyroid is a no brainer. It is even making the

mainstream news so your doc is living in a cave not to have heard of it.

Sheesh. Should have their license revoked.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

I totally agree. From the moment I found I was hpyo, I started

looking into my psych meds and their effect on my endocrine system.

Very frightening to say the least. Also, I found that SSRIs may

reduce ciculating thyroid hormones, esp t4.

.

[Guest guest]

I think people do need psych drugs, especially temporarily. But if they

never get to the cause the drugs mask the underlying issues. And if they are

adrenal and thyroid related, they will continue to get worse without

treatment.

And yes, the drugs can interfere with the thyroid and adrenals depending on

what they are. Even non-psych drugs can. Part of this is also a liver issue

because synthetic drugs tend to accumulate in an already compromised liver

and cannot be cleared properly, further causing thyroid conversion problems

and adrenal issues.

Vicious cycle really. And with heavy metal poisoning it becomes a huge

factor.

I just cannot believe that doctor ignores thyroid as an issue. That is one

bad thing about specialty medicine that they forget the body is a whole,

synergistic organism and not a bunch of compartments just living in the same

housing without interdependencies.

Whenever I see someone depressed with obvious hair loss and weight issues, I

always ask if they have had their thyroid checked and which tests. I have

diagnosed so many people who later emailed or called to thank me...that the

proper tests did show thyroid disease. Sometimes people I have just met and

gave my biz card too. Ha!

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

The Of course, I did try to

explain that perhaps my thyroid was not adequately treated, and

subsequelty I tried to explain that my adrenals were involved. Just

went over like a lead ballon.

I do have to say, however, that I was so far gone in my psych state,

that the drugs likely saved my life. I just wish that someone had

taken my complaints more seriously 15 years ago when I was always

complainnig of fatigue, hairloss, etc. I sought treatment 4 years

ago for my anxiety etc condition. It is a crime I had to suffer so

much in the meantime, and still.

.

[Guest guest]

Good for you on helping people!

You are right, it is a vicious cycle and that is the problem I am

facing at the moment.

I would change my shrink, but I really need her only to write the

occasional prescription - since I can't go completely off the psych

meds till I restabilize. This is especially since I had to go off my

thyroid meds due to complete intolerance. I have 3 weeks or more to

go until the endo tests me. In the meantime I will work o my

adrenals.

I told my psychiatrist over and over again how GREAT I felt on

Armour. How the world was rosy, things were happy, how I was at one

with the world - present and clear-headed, my drive and ambition

returned, etc. etc. I really think she believed I was making it up.

I regret I could not continue with the Armour at that time, cause I

would love to prove her wrong!.

For now, I am focusing on having medical guidance and pursuinng self

treatment very carefully. And in the meantime try not to cause any

more damage ro my body than I must with the psych meds. The sooner I

am off them, the better.

>

> I think people do need psych drugs, especially temporarily. But if

they

> never get to the cause the drugs mask the underlying issues. And

if they are

> adrenal and thyroid related, they will continue to get worse

without

> treatment.

>

> And yes, the drugs can interfere with the thyroid and adrenals

depending on

> what they are. Even non-psych drugs can. Part of this is also a

liver issue

> because synthetic drugs tend to accumulate in an already

compromised liver

> and cannot be cleared properly, further causing thyroid conversion

problems

> and adrenal issues.

>

> Vicious cycle really. And with heavy metal poisoning it becomes a

huge

> factor.

>

> I just cannot believe that doctor ignores thyroid as an issue.

That is one

> bad thing about specialty medicine that they forget the body is a

whole,

> synergistic organism and not a bunch of compartments just living

in the same

> housing without interdependencies.

>

> Whenever I see someone depressed with obvious hair loss and weight

issues, I

> always ask if they have had their thyroid checked and which tests.

I have

> diagnosed so many people who later emailed or called to thank

me...that the

> proper tests did show thyroid disease. Sometimes people I have

just met and

> gave my biz card too. Ha!

> Cheri

> -----Original Message-----

>

>

> The Of course, I did try to

> explain that perhaps my thyroid was not adequately treated, and

> subsequelty I tried to explain that my adrenals were involved.

Just

> went over like a lead ballon.

>

> I do have to say, however, that I was so far gone in my psych

state,

> that the drugs likely saved my life. I just wish that someone had

> taken my complaints more seriously 15 years ago when I was always

> complainnig of fatigue, hairloss, etc. I sought treatment 4 years

> ago for my anxiety etc condition. It is a crime I had to suffer

so

> much in the meantime, and still.

>

> .

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good for you on helping people!

You are right, it is a vicious cycle and that is the problem I am

facing at the moment.

I would change my shrink, but I really need her only to write the

occasional prescription - since I can't go completely off the psych

meds till I restabilize. This is especially since I had to go off my

thyroid meds due to complete intolerance. I have 3 weeks or more to

go until the endo tests me. In the meantime I will work o my

adrenals.

I told my psychiatrist over and over again how GREAT I felt on

Armour. How the world was rosy, things were happy, how I was at one

with the world - present and clear-headed, my drive and ambition

returned, etc. etc. I really think she believed I was making it up.

I regret I could not continue with the Armour at that time, cause I

would love to prove her wrong!.

For now, I am focusing on having medical guidance and pursuinng self

treatment very carefully. And in the meantime try not to cause any

more damage ro my body than I must with the psych meds. The sooner I

am off them, the better.

>

> I think people do need psych drugs, especially temporarily. But if

they

> never get to the cause the drugs mask the underlying issues. And

if they are

> adrenal and thyroid related, they will continue to get worse

without

> treatment.

>

> And yes, the drugs can interfere with the thyroid and adrenals

depending on

> what they are. Even non-psych drugs can. Part of this is also a

liver issue

> because synthetic drugs tend to accumulate in an already

compromised liver

> and cannot be cleared properly, further causing thyroid conversion

problems

> and adrenal issues.

>

> Vicious cycle really. And with heavy metal poisoning it becomes a

huge

> factor.

>

> I just cannot believe that doctor ignores thyroid as an issue.

That is one

> bad thing about specialty medicine that they forget the body is a

whole,

> synergistic organism and not a bunch of compartments just living

in the same

> housing without interdependencies.

>

> Whenever I see someone depressed with obvious hair loss and weight

issues, I

> always ask if they have had their thyroid checked and which tests.

I have

> diagnosed so many people who later emailed or called to thank

me...that the

> proper tests did show thyroid disease. Sometimes people I have

just met and

> gave my biz card too. Ha!

> Cheri

> -----Original Message-----

>

>

> The Of course, I did try to

> explain that perhaps my thyroid was not adequately treated, and

> subsequelty I tried to explain that my adrenals were involved.

Just

> went over like a lead ballon.

>

> I do have to say, however, that I was so far gone in my psych

state,

> that the drugs likely saved my life. I just wish that someone had

> taken my complaints more seriously 15 years ago when I was always

> complainnig of fatigue, hairloss, etc. I sought treatment 4 years

> ago for my anxiety etc condition. It is a crime I had to suffer

so

> much in the meantime, and still.

>

> .

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good for you on helping people!

You are right, it is a vicious cycle and that is the problem I am

facing at the moment.

I would change my shrink, but I really need her only to write the

occasional prescription - since I can't go completely off the psych

meds till I restabilize. This is especially since I had to go off my

thyroid meds due to complete intolerance. I have 3 weeks or more to

go until the endo tests me. In the meantime I will work o my

adrenals.

I told my psychiatrist over and over again how GREAT I felt on

Armour. How the world was rosy, things were happy, how I was at one

with the world - present and clear-headed, my drive and ambition

returned, etc. etc. I really think she believed I was making it up.

I regret I could not continue with the Armour at that time, cause I

would love to prove her wrong!.

For now, I am focusing on having medical guidance and pursuinng self

treatment very carefully. And in the meantime try not to cause any

more damage ro my body than I must with the psych meds. The sooner I

am off them, the better.

>

> I think people do need psych drugs, especially temporarily. But if

they

> never get to the cause the drugs mask the underlying issues. And

if they are

> adrenal and thyroid related, they will continue to get worse

without

> treatment.

>

> And yes, the drugs can interfere with the thyroid and adrenals

depending on

> what they are. Even non-psych drugs can. Part of this is also a

liver issue

> because synthetic drugs tend to accumulate in an already

compromised liver

> and cannot be cleared properly, further causing thyroid conversion

problems

> and adrenal issues.

>

> Vicious cycle really. And with heavy metal poisoning it becomes a

huge

> factor.

>

> I just cannot believe that doctor ignores thyroid as an issue.

That is one

> bad thing about specialty medicine that they forget the body is a

whole,

> synergistic organism and not a bunch of compartments just living

in the same

> housing without interdependencies.

>

> Whenever I see someone depressed with obvious hair loss and weight

issues, I

> always ask if they have had their thyroid checked and which tests.

I have

> diagnosed so many people who later emailed or called to thank

me...that the

> proper tests did show thyroid disease. Sometimes people I have

just met and

> gave my biz card too. Ha!

> Cheri

> -----Original Message-----

>

>

> The Of course, I did try to

> explain that perhaps my thyroid was not adequately treated, and

> subsequelty I tried to explain that my adrenals were involved.

Just

> went over like a lead ballon.

>

> I do have to say, however, that I was so far gone in my psych

state,

> that the drugs likely saved my life. I just wish that someone had

> taken my complaints more seriously 15 years ago when I was always

> complainnig of fatigue, hairloss, etc. I sought treatment 4 years

> ago for my anxiety etc condition. It is a crime I had to suffer

so

> much in the meantime, and still.

>

> .

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carol, I don't know enough about those ranges to say for sure. I would ask

next time you see your doc if he thinks you have primary or secondary based

on the results.

Cheri

-----Original Message-----

On of my ACTH stim tests (done about 11:00am), the starting number was a

little bit low,

but the response was only about 3 points. My second test was done at 9:00

am, and the

starting number was normal but in the low range, and again the response

was only about

3 points. Would this be primary or secondary?

Carol H.

.