RE: CPR/AED instruction for the visually impaired

January 5, 2010

This is an oversight by the AED mfrs. They should have tactile cues on

the AED itself to indicate the shock button. Then the audible cues

would tell them when to shock, and they could find the shock button.

As for the pads, I don't believe it really matters. I know on units

with an ECG display the waveform appears upsidedown, but the shock

should be the same either way, since it's an AC biphasic waveform.

Steve

candylady_rr wrote:

> I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

>

> The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

>

> We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay

with them doing CPR to save my own life.

>

> The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach

them all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and

where to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

>

> There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes

on the left vs the right.

>

> Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in

to your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

>

> Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

>

> Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

>

> ------------------------------------

>

January 5, 2010

This is an oversight by the AED mfrs. They should have tactile cues on

the AED itself to indicate the shock button. Then the audible cues

would tell them when to shock, and they could find the shock button.

As for the pads, I don't believe it really matters. I know on units

with an ECG display the waveform appears upsidedown, but the shock

should be the same either way, since it's an AC biphasic waveform.

Steve

candylady_rr wrote:

> I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

>

> The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

>

> We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay

with them doing CPR to save my own life.

>

> The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach

them all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and

where to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

>

> There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes

on the left vs the right.

>

> Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in

to your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

>

> Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

>

> Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

>

> ------------------------------------

>

January 5, 2010

Toni, AED's are biphasic, so the current travels in both directions. The placent

pictures on the pads are a sugestion, not absolute. They can be " reversed "

without any effect. As far as the machine giving a false positive or false

negative, the pads can be placed anywhere on the body and still work. Just for

fun, try putting one on the forehead, and one on a foot. The AED will still

analyse the presence of a cardiac rhythm or not.

My question is, you are teaching these visually impared people on your AED

trainer, they will have access to probably a different AED at work, and then if

ever in an emergency elsewhere, using a completely different AED at the mall.

How can they be taught all the different models and their controls?

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay with

them doing CPR to save my own life.

The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach them

all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and where

to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes on

the left vs the right.

Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in to

your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

January 5, 2010

Toni, AED's are biphasic, so the current travels in both directions. The placent

pictures on the pads are a sugestion, not absolute. They can be " reversed "

without any effect. As far as the machine giving a false positive or false

negative, the pads can be placed anywhere on the body and still work. Just for

fun, try putting one on the forehead, and one on a foot. The AED will still

analyse the presence of a cardiac rhythm or not.

My question is, you are teaching these visually impared people on your AED

trainer, they will have access to probably a different AED at work, and then if

ever in an emergency elsewhere, using a completely different AED at the mall.

How can they be taught all the different models and their controls?

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay with

them doing CPR to save my own life.

The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach them

all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and where

to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes on

the left vs the right.

Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in to

your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

January 5, 2010

Toni, AED's are biphasic, so the current travels in both directions. The placent

pictures on the pads are a sugestion, not absolute. They can be " reversed "

without any effect. As far as the machine giving a false positive or false

negative, the pads can be placed anywhere on the body and still work. Just for

fun, try putting one on the forehead, and one on a foot. The AED will still

analyse the presence of a cardiac rhythm or not.

My question is, you are teaching these visually impared people on your AED

trainer, they will have access to probably a different AED at work, and then if

ever in an emergency elsewhere, using a completely different AED at the mall.

How can they be taught all the different models and their controls?

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay with

them doing CPR to save my own life.

The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach them

all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and where

to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes on

the left vs the right.

Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in to

your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

January 5, 2010

,

Thanks for the reply.

Obviously, we can't teach them all the different models and should speak to the

ones in their work place. That is why we are there. They will then have the

concept and, if available, can have a sighted person help them if they are

elsewhere.

Now, I understand the biphasic vs. monophasic units but what concerns me is that

I can't find anything in writing...thus far. Well, I say anything. I found one

document from the UK that reads " it doesn't matter " . Then, I came across

another document that reads, " If there are no markings, it doesn't matter. If

there are markings (i.e., icons, colored tags, etc) then it does. " Most of the

pads I've seen have markings.

I would just like to have something concrete...official.

Toni

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of McGee

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 5:30 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: CPR/AED instruction for the visually impaired

Toni, AED's are biphasic, so the current travels in both directions. The placent

pictures on the pads are a sugestion, not absolute. They can be " reversed "

without any effect. As far as the machine giving a false positive or false

negative, the pads can be placed anywhere on the body and still work. Just for

fun, try putting one on the forehead, and one on a foot. The AED will still

analyse the presence of a cardiac rhythm or not.

My question is, you are teaching these visually impared people on your AED

trainer, they will have access to probably a different AED at work, and then if

ever in an emergency elsewhere, using a completely different AED at the mall.

How can they be taught all the different models and their controls?

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

On Jan 5, 2010, at 3:36 PM, " candylady_rr " toni_crippen@...

> wrote:

I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay with

them doing CPR to save my own life.

The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach them

all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and where

to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes on

the left vs the right.

Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in to

your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

January 5, 2010

,

Thanks for the reply.

Obviously, we can't teach them all the different models and should speak to the

ones in their work place. That is why we are there. They will then have the

concept and, if available, can have a sighted person help them if they are

elsewhere.

Now, I understand the biphasic vs. monophasic units but what concerns me is that

I can't find anything in writing...thus far. Well, I say anything. I found one

document from the UK that reads " it doesn't matter " . Then, I came across

another document that reads, " If there are no markings, it doesn't matter. If

there are markings (i.e., icons, colored tags, etc) then it does. " Most of the

pads I've seen have markings.

I would just like to have something concrete...official.

Toni

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of McGee

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 5:30 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: CPR/AED instruction for the visually impaired

Toni, AED's are biphasic, so the current travels in both directions. The placent

pictures on the pads are a sugestion, not absolute. They can be " reversed "

without any effect. As far as the machine giving a false positive or false

negative, the pads can be placed anywhere on the body and still work. Just for

fun, try putting one on the forehead, and one on a foot. The AED will still

analyse the presence of a cardiac rhythm or not.

My question is, you are teaching these visually impared people on your AED

trainer, they will have access to probably a different AED at work, and then if

ever in an emergency elsewhere, using a completely different AED at the mall.

How can they be taught all the different models and their controls?

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

On Jan 5, 2010, at 3:36 PM, " candylady_rr " toni_crippen@...

> wrote:

I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay with

them doing CPR to save my own life.

The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach them

all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and where

to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes on

the left vs the right.

Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in to

your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

January 5, 2010

,

Thanks for the reply.

Obviously, we can't teach them all the different models and should speak to the

ones in their work place. That is why we are there. They will then have the

concept and, if available, can have a sighted person help them if they are

elsewhere.

Now, I understand the biphasic vs. monophasic units but what concerns me is that

I can't find anything in writing...thus far. Well, I say anything. I found one

document from the UK that reads " it doesn't matter " . Then, I came across

another document that reads, " If there are no markings, it doesn't matter. If

there are markings (i.e., icons, colored tags, etc) then it does. " Most of the

pads I've seen have markings.

I would just like to have something concrete...official.

Toni

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of McGee

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 5:30 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: CPR/AED instruction for the visually impaired

Toni, AED's are biphasic, so the current travels in both directions. The placent

pictures on the pads are a sugestion, not absolute. They can be " reversed "

without any effect. As far as the machine giving a false positive or false

negative, the pads can be placed anywhere on the body and still work. Just for

fun, try putting one on the forehead, and one on a foot. The AED will still

analyse the presence of a cardiac rhythm or not.

My question is, you are teaching these visually impared people on your AED

trainer, they will have access to probably a different AED at work, and then if

ever in an emergency elsewhere, using a completely different AED at the mall.

How can they be taught all the different models and their controls?

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

On Jan 5, 2010, at 3:36 PM, " candylady_rr " toni_crippen@...

> wrote:

I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay with

them doing CPR to save my own life.

The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach them

all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and where

to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes on

the left vs the right.

Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in to

your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

January 5, 2010

The problem may not be with the countershock. The interpretation algorythm

(computer program) is designed to find the shockable rhythms in lead two.

Placing the pads in any position other than the recommended position may provide

enough anomaly that the algorythm would fail to recommend a shock for shockable

rhythms. This is a theoretical concern and is not supported by any data that I

am aware of.

I will see what I can find.

Kenny Navarro

Dallas

>

> I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

>

> The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

>

> We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay with

them doing CPR to save my own life.

>

> The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach them

all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and where

to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

>

> There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes on

the left vs the right.

>

> Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in

to your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

>

> Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

>

> Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

>

January 5, 2010

The problem may not be with the countershock. The interpretation algorythm

(computer program) is designed to find the shockable rhythms in lead two.

Placing the pads in any position other than the recommended position may provide

enough anomaly that the algorythm would fail to recommend a shock for shockable

rhythms. This is a theoretical concern and is not supported by any data that I

am aware of.

I will see what I can find.

Kenny Navarro

Dallas

>

> I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

>

> The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

>

> We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay with

them doing CPR to save my own life.

>

> The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach them

all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and where

to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

>

> There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes on

the left vs the right.

>

> Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in

to your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

>

> Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

>

> Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

>

January 5, 2010

The problem may not be with the countershock. The interpretation algorythm

(computer program) is designed to find the shockable rhythms in lead two.

Placing the pads in any position other than the recommended position may provide

enough anomaly that the algorythm would fail to recommend a shock for shockable

rhythms. This is a theoretical concern and is not supported by any data that I

am aware of.

I will see what I can find.

Kenny Navarro

Dallas

>

> I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

>

> The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

>

> We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay with

them doing CPR to save my own life.

>

> The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach them

all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and where

to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

>

> There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes on

the left vs the right.

>

> Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in

to your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

>

> Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

>

> Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

>

January 5, 2010

Toni,

I believe I may have found a research article that may be what you are looking

for. Here is the link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11719177

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

,

Thanks for the reply.

Obviously, we can't teach them all the different models and should speak to the

ones in their work place. That is why we are there. They will then have the

concept and, if available, can have a sighted person help them if they are

elsewhere.

Now, I understand the biphasic vs. monophasic units but what concerns me is that

I can't find anything in writing...thus far. Well, I say anything. I found one

document from the UK that reads " it doesn't matter " . Then, I came across another

document that reads, " If there are no markings, it doesn't matter. If there are

markings (i.e., icons, colored tags, etc) then it does. " Most of the pads I've

seen have markings.

I would just like to have something concrete...official.

Toni

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of McGee

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 5:30 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: CPR/AED instruction for the visually impaired

Toni, AED's are biphasic, so the current travels in both directions. The placent

pictures on the pads are a sugestion, not absolute. They can be " reversed "

without any effect. As far as the machine giving a false positive or false

negative, the pads can be placed anywhere on the body and still work. Just for

fun, try putting one on the forehead, and one on a foot. The AED will still

analyse the presence of a cardiac rhythm or not.

My question is, you are teaching these visually impared people on your AED

trainer, they will have access to probably a different AED at work, and then if

ever in an emergency elsewhere, using a completely different AED at the mall.

How can they be taught all the different models and their controls?

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

On Jan 5, 2010, at 3:36 PM, " candylady_rr " toni_crippen@...

> wrote:

I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay with

them doing CPR to save my own life.

The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach them

all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and where

to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes on

the left vs the right.

Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in to

your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

January 5, 2010

Toni,

I believe I may have found a research article that may be what you are looking

for. Here is the link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11719177

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

,

Thanks for the reply.

Obviously, we can't teach them all the different models and should speak to the

ones in their work place. That is why we are there. They will then have the

concept and, if available, can have a sighted person help them if they are

elsewhere.

Now, I understand the biphasic vs. monophasic units but what concerns me is that

I can't find anything in writing...thus far. Well, I say anything. I found one

document from the UK that reads " it doesn't matter " . Then, I came across another

document that reads, " If there are no markings, it doesn't matter. If there are

markings (i.e., icons, colored tags, etc) then it does. " Most of the pads I've

seen have markings.

I would just like to have something concrete...official.

Toni

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of McGee

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 5:30 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: CPR/AED instruction for the visually impaired

Toni, AED's are biphasic, so the current travels in both directions. The placent

pictures on the pads are a sugestion, not absolute. They can be " reversed "

without any effect. As far as the machine giving a false positive or false

negative, the pads can be placed anywhere on the body and still work. Just for

fun, try putting one on the forehead, and one on a foot. The AED will still

analyse the presence of a cardiac rhythm or not.

My question is, you are teaching these visually impared people on your AED

trainer, they will have access to probably a different AED at work, and then if

ever in an emergency elsewhere, using a completely different AED at the mall.

How can they be taught all the different models and their controls?

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

On Jan 5, 2010, at 3:36 PM, " candylady_rr " toni_crippen@...

> wrote:

I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay with

them doing CPR to save my own life.

The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach them

all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and where

to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes on

the left vs the right.

Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in to

your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

January 5, 2010

Toni,

I believe I may have found a research article that may be what you are looking

for. Here is the link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11719177

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

,

Thanks for the reply.

Obviously, we can't teach them all the different models and should speak to the

ones in their work place. That is why we are there. They will then have the

concept and, if available, can have a sighted person help them if they are

elsewhere.

Now, I understand the biphasic vs. monophasic units but what concerns me is that

I can't find anything in writing...thus far. Well, I say anything. I found one

document from the UK that reads " it doesn't matter " . Then, I came across another

document that reads, " If there are no markings, it doesn't matter. If there are

markings (i.e., icons, colored tags, etc) then it does. " Most of the pads I've

seen have markings.

I would just like to have something concrete...official.

Toni

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of McGee

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 5:30 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: CPR/AED instruction for the visually impaired

Toni, AED's are biphasic, so the current travels in both directions. The placent

pictures on the pads are a sugestion, not absolute. They can be " reversed "

without any effect. As far as the machine giving a false positive or false

negative, the pads can be placed anywhere on the body and still work. Just for

fun, try putting one on the forehead, and one on a foot. The AED will still

analyse the presence of a cardiac rhythm or not.

My question is, you are teaching these visually impared people on your AED

trainer, they will have access to probably a different AED at work, and then if

ever in an emergency elsewhere, using a completely different AED at the mall.

How can they be taught all the different models and their controls?

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

On Jan 5, 2010, at 3:36 PM, " candylady_rr " toni_crippen@...

> wrote:

I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay with

them doing CPR to save my own life.

The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach them

all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and where

to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes on

the left vs the right.

Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in to

your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

January 6, 2010

Pads - The last time we reviewed AEDs to determine which to purchase was in the

'90s, I think, and there were only two AEDs on the market -- the Physio LifePak

500 and the little black one that shocked using less energy. At that time, one

of the sales reps told me that they had originally planned to make the pads with

instructions for where to put them on the patient but without any designation as

to which pad should be placed on the right and which on the left -- because it

doesn't matter. They changed their plans after field testing, and the pads now

specify that one should be placed on the right and one the left, because they

discovered that members of the public expected such instructions and wasted time

looking for them. If I were teaching the visually impaired, I would tell them

this and that other members of the public, and even members of the healthcare

community, do not know that the pads are interchangeable.

How the visually impaired can turn on the AED & shock the patient - Public

access AEDs are located in public places -- places in which there are large

numbers of people. Therefore, while it is very possible that a visually

impaired person could locate an AED at their place of employment (because they

would know where it is stored) and apply it without the assistance of anyone

else, they would also know how to operate this AED if trained on it before the

critical event and wouldn't have to see the buttons to know which to push.

Conversely, a visually impaired person in a public place with which they are

unfamilar locating an AED with which they are unfamiliar without assistance from

at least one other person seems unlikely. In such a public place, if the

visually impaired person knows about AEDs, he/she can prompt others to look for

or get an AED(which people often forget to do in the heat of the moment), direct

the application of the AED, and direct the pressing of the buttons.

>

> I just taught an AHA Heartsaver Adult/Child CPR/AED class that has me saying,

" hmmmm " . I've been teaching CPR for a few years now, and this one has me

stumped.

>

> The students? Many, visually impaired who are learning for 'work' reasons.

>

> We adjust the class so that we are describing as much as we can so the student

can learn. The students are sharp and have no issues. ly, I'd be okay

with them doing CPR to save my own life.

>

> The rub? The AED. It's not user friendly for the visually impaired...for the

blind. There is no braille. Now, I can orient someone to the AED and teach

them all the appropriate spots for the on/off switch...the shock button...and

where to plug in the connector. HOWEVER, the pads.

>

> There is correct pad placement. But, if the user cannot see the diagram, then

the pads cannot be placed accordingly. And, the pads are the same size with no

raised, discerning marks. I am not certain how to tell someone which pad goes

on the left vs the right.

>

> Has anyone had this same scenario before? What tricks did you incorporate in

to your teaching? What can happen if the pads are switched? I know there is a

positive and a negative...so can it confuse the machine? Can it advise for a

shock when there shouldn't be one or even not advise when there should be one?

>

> Any help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!

>

> Toni Crippen, rookie nremt-p

>

January 6, 2010