Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 In a message dated 4/18/2006 4:04:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, babydewe2@... writes: Her HI will be there and should, however she is the one that told me initially when I asked about 's triennial testing that it 1) wouldn't change her eligibility and 2) that the tests are not normed on deaf/hoh children so they don't give an accurate picture. So you can see why I feel the need to be educated about this stuff. I'm also afraid that they will take the HI's lead and say something about the tests being an ineffective measure of 's ability because they are not normed on deaf/hoh kids. If they are uncomfortable with testing her, I am more than willing to take her to somewhere that wouldn't be, like the nearest deaf oral school or our state school for the deaf, but do I share that with them You betcha! You let them know that you are going to pursue the testing elsewhere if necessary (and intend to pass the bill along to them). As soon as they say they don't intend to test her appropriately. You can also mention that you'll be contacting the State Ed department to find out what your state's policy is about triennial testing. Here in NY if the triennial is not done correctly and on time, funding for that child's services can be denied for reimbursement. Our district is very good about triennial testing, even if all they do is the basic collection of tests, they do test. The standard tests are not normed against D/HOH kids but that can be remedied by using other tests which ARE normed against that target population. Your state may have its required collection of tests, which have to be done. Or there may be some alternatives that are aimed at specific target populations. We requested the new and different testing aimed at assessing Ian's specific issues and comparing him with other D/HOH kids. The district had no problem complying with our requests. Ian is now given the SAT (Stanford Achievement Test) which is age appropriate for him as well as normed against D/HOH kids. I forget exactly what his collection of tests consists of because our TOD knows what is expected and was the one who made recommendations for the alternatives (like the SAT). She is also often the one who administers the tests. One thing we realized this year, some of the standard tests have not been done with Ian because they have no impact on assessing his needs or his services. Yet, they are the tests accepted by the College Board for justifying accommodations. For instance, his processing speed and memory issues. There has never been a need to re-assess those because the school accepted them -- those things they understood, the hearing loss was the thing they thought was insignificant. The original test results are now about 10 years old, and we need test results within 5 years. (argh!) So ... the school has to hurry up and test him now so that we can provide the results to the College Board and get the appropriate accommodations for his PSATs and SATs this coming fall. Never a dull moment, huh? Even when you think you have it all under control, Fate has a good giggle by sending me off on a new wild goose chase. (grin) Best -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 In a message dated 4/18/2006 4:04:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, babydewe2@... writes: Her HI will be there and should, however she is the one that told me initially when I asked about 's triennial testing that it 1) wouldn't change her eligibility and 2) that the tests are not normed on deaf/hoh children so they don't give an accurate picture. So you can see why I feel the need to be educated about this stuff. I'm also afraid that they will take the HI's lead and say something about the tests being an ineffective measure of 's ability because they are not normed on deaf/hoh kids. If they are uncomfortable with testing her, I am more than willing to take her to somewhere that wouldn't be, like the nearest deaf oral school or our state school for the deaf, but do I share that with them You betcha! You let them know that you are going to pursue the testing elsewhere if necessary (and intend to pass the bill along to them). As soon as they say they don't intend to test her appropriately. You can also mention that you'll be contacting the State Ed department to find out what your state's policy is about triennial testing. Here in NY if the triennial is not done correctly and on time, funding for that child's services can be denied for reimbursement. Our district is very good about triennial testing, even if all they do is the basic collection of tests, they do test. The standard tests are not normed against D/HOH kids but that can be remedied by using other tests which ARE normed against that target population. Your state may have its required collection of tests, which have to be done. Or there may be some alternatives that are aimed at specific target populations. We requested the new and different testing aimed at assessing Ian's specific issues and comparing him with other D/HOH kids. The district had no problem complying with our requests. Ian is now given the SAT (Stanford Achievement Test) which is age appropriate for him as well as normed against D/HOH kids. I forget exactly what his collection of tests consists of because our TOD knows what is expected and was the one who made recommendations for the alternatives (like the SAT). She is also often the one who administers the tests. One thing we realized this year, some of the standard tests have not been done with Ian because they have no impact on assessing his needs or his services. Yet, they are the tests accepted by the College Board for justifying accommodations. For instance, his processing speed and memory issues. There has never been a need to re-assess those because the school accepted them -- those things they understood, the hearing loss was the thing they thought was insignificant. The original test results are now about 10 years old, and we need test results within 5 years. (argh!) So ... the school has to hurry up and test him now so that we can provide the results to the College Board and get the appropriate accommodations for his PSATs and SATs this coming fall. Never a dull moment, huh? Even when you think you have it all under control, Fate has a good giggle by sending me off on a new wild goose chase. (grin) Best -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 If the school/school district can't provide testing appropriate for your daghter, they are required to pay for testing that is. If I were you, I would go to the meeting with the name and details of a place that can test rather than relying on them to find one. These boards often are happy to rubber stamp something than do their own investigating. Meeting tomorrow Hi all, I know that I am probably over thinking about our meeting tomorrow to discuss 's triennial testing, but I'd rather be prepared than be caught off guard. We are meeting tomorrow to, I assume, discuss what testing needs to happen and for me to sign off on those tests. From going back and rereading some older posts it looks like most of the testing is IQ or language evaluations. Does that sound right? Is there something else that I should make sure is done? is currently the only child in our district who wears hearing aids, and it's been at least 9 years since they had a student who wore aids, so I'm not all that sure they will know what should be done. Her HI will be there and should, however she is the one that told me initially when I asked about 's triennial testing that it 1) wouldn't change her eligibility and 2) that the tests are not normed on deaf/hoh children so they don't give an accurate picture. So you can see why I feel the need to be educated about this stuff. I'm also afraid that they will take the HI's lead and say something about the tests being an ineffective measure of 's ability because they are not normed on deaf/hoh kids. If they are uncomfortable with testing her, I am more than willing to take her to somewhere that wouldn't be, like the nearest deaf oral school or our state school for the deaf, but do I share that with them? Any suggestions or words of advice are greatly appreciated. Debbie, mom to , 6, moderate SNHL and , 3, hearing Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not. G.B Shaw --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 If the school/school district can't provide testing appropriate for your daghter, they are required to pay for testing that is. If I were you, I would go to the meeting with the name and details of a place that can test rather than relying on them to find one. These boards often are happy to rubber stamp something than do their own investigating. Meeting tomorrow Hi all, I know that I am probably over thinking about our meeting tomorrow to discuss 's triennial testing, but I'd rather be prepared than be caught off guard. We are meeting tomorrow to, I assume, discuss what testing needs to happen and for me to sign off on those tests. From going back and rereading some older posts it looks like most of the testing is IQ or language evaluations. Does that sound right? Is there something else that I should make sure is done? is currently the only child in our district who wears hearing aids, and it's been at least 9 years since they had a student who wore aids, so I'm not all that sure they will know what should be done. Her HI will be there and should, however she is the one that told me initially when I asked about 's triennial testing that it 1) wouldn't change her eligibility and 2) that the tests are not normed on deaf/hoh children so they don't give an accurate picture. So you can see why I feel the need to be educated about this stuff. I'm also afraid that they will take the HI's lead and say something about the tests being an ineffective measure of 's ability because they are not normed on deaf/hoh kids. If they are uncomfortable with testing her, I am more than willing to take her to somewhere that wouldn't be, like the nearest deaf oral school or our state school for the deaf, but do I share that with them? Any suggestions or words of advice are greatly appreciated. Debbie, mom to , 6, moderate SNHL and , 3, hearing Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not. G.B Shaw --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Hi again Deb, I left for several hours then sent an email I had written earlier. I worried that perhaps I came on too strong. Then I saw this email and noticed that your daughter has a moderate loss. With a moderate loss, she has so much hearing that there would be no real reason to compare her to deaf/hoh kids rather than typical kids. She is much closer in the way she functions (using her hearing) to a hearing than a non hearing person. And since she is 6 I'm thinking she is in 5K now and going into first. You don't need the assessment to prove eligibility but it would be nice to know where she is at in reading/pre-reading skills, listening skills, pre-math skills etc. When our daughter was evaluated by the oral school, they tested IQ, speech, language (with about 5 tests!), pre-reading, pre-math etc. in GA Hi all, > I know that I am probably over thinking about our meeting tomorrow >to >> Debbie, mom to , 6, moderate SNHL and , 3, hearing > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I don't know, Celeste does post to PDHH now and then, not often. I would like to say that the last I heard from Mark Marschark and Cathy Rhoten, - that the 3rd/4th grade reading level statistics are over 30 years old. Our school graduated kids at 7.2 last year and there are reading strategies (fairview/visual phonics, combination, etc) that are helping to improve these scores continually. I agree that you should ask for the Stanford 9 if you want to see a true representation of where your child stands on average. --- I can get Cathy's last presentation and ask Kay to post it to Listen Up, if parents are intersted in seeing it. In . You need to remember the Gallaudet research that says the average 18 year old deaf/HOH student reads at a 4th grade level. This is using the Stanford Acheivement Test (SAT) that is normed on both deaf and typical kids. So if your child is in 5th grade and reading on a 2nd grade level, against typical norms it would look as if your child needed more help and if compared against deaf norms, they would probably be above average and wouldn't need help. I worry about people with the attitude of only testing kids with tests normed on deaf kids - they are ok with this status quo and that status quo is often what they are aiming for. Not usually what the parents are hoping and aiming for. Celeste, a mom who used to be on the list, who is a huge ASL advocate and whose Deaf daughter went to college, wrote an article on this and it may be on Kay's website somewhere. Does anyone know if it is?? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 In a message dated 4/19/2006 4:34:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, maryemapa@... writes: We WANT to improve the scores, we dont' want the 4th grade scores. I will see what I can get from Cathy and Mr. Marschark that's more recent. I think there are scores that are more recent, and higher, according to what I learned from Cathy. Here's an article from the recent Hands & Voices newsletter: _http://www.handsandvoices.org/articles/research/v9-2_marschark.htm_ (http://www.handsandvoices.org/articles/research/v9-2_marschark.htm) Putz Illinois Families for Hands & Voices _www.handsandvoices.org_ (http://www.handsandvoices.org/) _www.ilhandsandvoices.org_ (http://www.ilhandsandvoices.org/) Email: support@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 -, you wrote to Deb: " I left for several hours then sent an email I had written earlier. I worried that perhaps I came on too strong " I am in a hurry and did send an email in response to something you wrote (I wrote quickly too) and hope you understand that I am trying to say that those scores are changing for the better with certain strategies in place. I apologize just in case. We WANT to improve the scores, we dont' want the 4th grade scores. I will see what I can get from Cathy and Mr. Marschark that's more recent. I think there are scores that are more recent, and higher, according to what I learned from Cathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Hello, Question for anyone who read the article from Hands and Voices. Marschark mentions (near the end) that deaf children learn differently than hearing children. Does anyone know specifically what he means by that? Is he talking about visual learning verses auditory learning, or something like that? Just curious. Thanks, Mom to , 8, hearing, and Caleb, 6, bilateral, SNHL, aided Parentsofdeafhoh@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/19/2006 4:34:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, > maryemapa@... writes: > > > We WANT to improve the scores, we dont' want the 4th grade scores. I > will see what I can get from Cathy and Mr. Marschark that's more > recent. I think there are scores that are more recent, and higher, > according to what I learned from Cathy. > > > Here's an article from the recent Hands & Voices newsletter: > _http://www.handsandvoices.org/articles/research/v9-2_marschark.htm_ > (http://www.handsandvoices.org/articles/research/v9-2_marschark.htm) > <http://www.handsandvoices.org/articles/research/v9-2_marschark.htm%29> > > > Putz > Illinois Families for Hands & Voices > _www.handsandvoices.org_ (http://www.handsandvoices.org/) > <http://www.handsandvoices.org/%29> > _www.ilhandsandvoices.org_ (http://www.ilhandsandvoices.org/) > <http://www.ilhandsandvoices.org/%29> > Email: support@... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 <<Her HI will be there and should, however she is the one that told me initially when I asked about 's triennial testing that it 1) wouldn't change her eligibility and 2) that the tests are not normed on deaf/hoh children so they don't give an accurate picture. So you can see why I feel the need to be educated about this stuff. I'm also afraid that they will take the HI's lead and say something about the tests being an ineffective measure of 's ability because they are not normed on deaf/hoh kids. If they are uncomfortable with testing her, I am more than willing to take her to somewhere that wouldn't be, like the nearest deaf oral school or our state school for the deaf, but do I share that with them?>> I would definitely not want the tests normed on a DHH child. That might end up making your child looks like she needs less services. When it comes to these tests, the worse the kid does on them the better. That's sounds horrible, but it's one of those situations where you really have to accentuate the negatives. If you end up with too many services because you did this, taking them away is easy enough. If you don't do this and find you need more services, getting them added is much harder. If you can have tested by someone who knows what they are doing and can then give good explanations of where 's weaknesses can be found, I think that would be great. Based on our district testing for Neal's triennial this year, they didn't find him needing anything in speech and language other than a few small articulation areas. The only reason they did offer speech services was because we had some written suggestions from Neal's preschool that pointed out deficits they had seen while working with him. Also I had Neal's former teacher come to our second meeting and talk the SLP into adding auditory goals even though she didn't see the need for them. The district took those things into account even though they didn't necessarily believe them. Also the county audiologist was at our meeting and pointed out that they were saying that most of Neal's problems were just developmental and would work themselves out, which wasn't the case with a deaf child. So having some sort of opinions and facts from professionals who actually know what they are talking about when it comes to DHH kids can be priceless at times. Having a district that doesn't know what they are doing, and is willing to admit that can be helpful too. It sounds like yours might be such a district. Rhonda Savage Mom to Audrey, 8, hearing; and Neal, 6, CII at 2.9 years " Hard does not mean impossible. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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