Re: Crazy rhythm- failed experiment

[Guest guest]

Well, I think that my little experiment was a pretty clear failure

because, after making my last dose 8PM for the past two nights, I woke

up last night at 3AM, stomach hurting, sweating, slightly nauseous -

clearly in need of HC. I got up and took 5mg with a piece of turkey

and 1/2 a klonopin and waited for 30 minutes or so for the stomach

ache to pass and to fall back to sleep which I did and stayed asleep

until around 7:30AM. I guess that I need that bed-time dose as Val

says that most of us on higher doses do. Unless, as Val also says, it

takes a couple of weeks for the adrenals to react to change and that I

need to give a new dose like that two weeks before I get used to it.

I just can't feel like that in the middle of the night for two weeks

in the hopes that I will get used to it when it isn't likely that I

will - I appear to need the cortisol during the night and my adrenals

aren't giving me any which is sort of scary.

Besides that, some other weird stuff happened yesterday evening and

night that I need some analysis on. After a day and a half or so of

pretty good GI, the IBS stuff got going again after my BMAG shot (.6ml

of mag/chloride, .2ml of vit B-Complex, and .2ml of B-12) and then

after a dinner of brown rice and roasted chicken. It pretty much

bothered me all night. I ate my now usual half an apple with 2tbsps

of almond butter at 10PM and 400mg of dissolved mag/glycinate and went

to bed, falling asleep at around 11:30PM. At 12:30 I had to get up to

urinate and passed a heavy volume and then had to again at 1:30, same

volume. I woke up again at 3AM when my wife came to bed, urinated

again although not as heavy, and then realized that I was going to

need more HC.

Questions:

1. What might have been the cause of all of the urine production? It

had a very strong odor that I have noticed before too.

2. Is it possible that this BMAG shot that I'm getting is causing me p

problems - even though I was taking the lesser of the two kinds of

B-12, cyano-something, before, I usually felt good afterwards. I have

not had that experience with the new shot.

3. I guess that I should resume the bed-time HC. Is the fact that I

get no cortisol production from my adrenals over-night when they are

called on to produce the least indicative of them being totally

suppressed on this dose of 40mg?

Thanks,

>

> >>For my 40mg dose I'm trying 15 - 10 - 10 - 5 (at 8PM(.

> Is this a crazy rhythm. Should I be doing something else like 15 -

> 12.5 - 7.5 - 5?<<

>

> You can try it both ways and see which workds better

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

Oh you have SOME cortiosl production or you wouls be throwing up.

Uncontrollably. And shaking liek you were going to die. Apple at

bedtime? UH UH! Too much sugar! Peanut butter would be a better option

one wihtout added sugar. I find peanut butter toast ona low carb bread

works very well for me and I have stable glucose all night. If I ate an

apple at bedtime, or ANY fruit, I owul dhave hypoglycemia by AM.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

[Guest guest]

I would get my 3 tbsp of VCO before 3 pm. Some ppl find VCO too stimulating to

take for dinner. I take 2 tbsp in the morning and one for lunch.

Pamela

jasrich wrote: I was just

trying to determine whether taking the HC right before bed

was causing my sleep disturbances as they do for Cheri and Jim. Since

we supposedly need so little cortisol from midnight to 6-8AM, I though

that maybe even the 2.5 - 5mg at night was stimulating enough to wake

me at 4AM. I obviously need something to get me through the night

without going so high that it messes up the AM rhythm. I don't think

that I'm at a natural rhythm for me yet. Maybe the Delta with help if

I can get it.

I don't know how to describe the smell - not proteiny, but that was

the last thing that I ate before I went to bed. I notice that I have

to get up to urinate a lot when I eat my MIL's cooking and, until more

recently, I would typically eat it with several large helpings of

white rice. Maybe I was peeing out my dinner of brown rice. Maybe

between the brown rice and the apple later I did get too many carbs?

I do mix in about a tbsp of cocunut oil (extra virgin of course) with

my rice and quinoa meals - or real butter. I usually only have 3 or 4

small spoons of rice with the chicken - maybe a little over a serving.

It's a small bowl. I usually have a few small pieces of pineapple

with it for something sweet (since I cannot eat dessert anymore) and

for the naturally occurring bromelain in pineapple. Does that sound a

like a bad dinner? Should I add more coconut oil? Not eat the rice

at all? I'm also taking 1tsp of cod liver oil around dinner time for

the Omega 3s, D, ALA, etc. Should I take more of that?

Thanks,

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I would get my 3 tbsp of VCO before 3 pm. Some ppl find VCO too stimulating to

take for dinner. I take 2 tbsp in the morning and one for lunch.

Pamela

jasrich wrote: I was just

trying to determine whether taking the HC right before bed

was causing my sleep disturbances as they do for Cheri and Jim. Since

we supposedly need so little cortisol from midnight to 6-8AM, I though

that maybe even the 2.5 - 5mg at night was stimulating enough to wake

me at 4AM. I obviously need something to get me through the night

without going so high that it messes up the AM rhythm. I don't think

that I'm at a natural rhythm for me yet. Maybe the Delta with help if

I can get it.

I don't know how to describe the smell - not proteiny, but that was

the last thing that I ate before I went to bed. I notice that I have

to get up to urinate a lot when I eat my MIL's cooking and, until more

recently, I would typically eat it with several large helpings of

white rice. Maybe I was peeing out my dinner of brown rice. Maybe

between the brown rice and the apple later I did get too many carbs?

I do mix in about a tbsp of cocunut oil (extra virgin of course) with

my rice and quinoa meals - or real butter. I usually only have 3 or 4

small spoons of rice with the chicken - maybe a little over a serving.

It's a small bowl. I usually have a few small pieces of pineapple

with it for something sweet (since I cannot eat dessert anymore) and

for the naturally occurring bromelain in pineapple. Does that sound a

like a bad dinner? Should I add more coconut oil? Not eat the rice

at all? I'm also taking 1tsp of cod liver oil around dinner time for

the Omega 3s, D, ALA, etc. Should I take more of that?

Thanks,

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I would get my 3 tbsp of VCO before 3 pm. Some ppl find VCO too stimulating to

take for dinner. I take 2 tbsp in the morning and one for lunch.

Pamela

jasrich wrote: I was just

trying to determine whether taking the HC right before bed

was causing my sleep disturbances as they do for Cheri and Jim. Since

we supposedly need so little cortisol from midnight to 6-8AM, I though

that maybe even the 2.5 - 5mg at night was stimulating enough to wake

me at 4AM. I obviously need something to get me through the night

without going so high that it messes up the AM rhythm. I don't think

that I'm at a natural rhythm for me yet. Maybe the Delta with help if

I can get it.

I don't know how to describe the smell - not proteiny, but that was

the last thing that I ate before I went to bed. I notice that I have

to get up to urinate a lot when I eat my MIL's cooking and, until more

recently, I would typically eat it with several large helpings of

white rice. Maybe I was peeing out my dinner of brown rice. Maybe

between the brown rice and the apple later I did get too many carbs?

I do mix in about a tbsp of cocunut oil (extra virgin of course) with

my rice and quinoa meals - or real butter. I usually only have 3 or 4

small spoons of rice with the chicken - maybe a little over a serving.

It's a small bowl. I usually have a few small pieces of pineapple

with it for something sweet (since I cannot eat dessert anymore) and

for the naturally occurring bromelain in pineapple. Does that sound a

like a bad dinner? Should I add more coconut oil? Not eat the rice

at all? I'm also taking 1tsp of cod liver oil around dinner time for

the Omega 3s, D, ALA, etc. Should I take more of that?

Thanks,

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

" jasrich " wrote:

> you and DH take 200mg with meals with carbs. Do you think that

> the 500 is too much?

Yes, cause you're not a true diabetic, but you obviously have blood

sugar problems.

>What is the cut-off for there being enough carbs in a meal that you

should take it? I just had a protein bar with like 20 grams of carbs

in it but I don't expect that I should take a chromium?

I don't really know the exact cut-off, but I think you could get away

with 20 okay. It's dinners that tend to have pasta, potatoes, or

rice, that justify a chromium.

> How much more of the coconut oil? I even eat a tbsp off of the spoon

> like it says that you can do but don't want to get carried away.

If you're taking 1 T, take 2.

> You said that DH goes from 3PM to 10PM without a dose of HC? On

> purpose or do you have him on a customized schedule? Seems like it

> would be hard to get 6 doses in if he doesn't take any for that

long a time. And he's taking 2.5mg at bed right?

You two are similar in size (I think) but that might be about it.

He's 5'7 " and 154 lbs, and saliva showed him in stage 4. I believe

his AF is PTSD from work (the paranoid schizophrenic is gone now). I

think he got hypothyroid years ago when his doc put him on a beta

blocker for his BP. He used to be over 200 lbs, but we brought his

weight down with exercise and a high fiber diet. I took him off the

beta blocker cause I thought it was killing him and making him stupid

(brain fog?). (I have been playing doctor now for years. He is

now on 1.5 grains Armour and just starting to feel better

consistently. A month ago it was a good day, then a bad day, each

day was hit or miss. I had him at 10 mg for his first dose but

lowered it to 8, thinking it was the suppression thing, and it

worked, he's sleeping better. He is not on 6x/day dosing; only takes

4, 4, 3, 1 at 7 a.m., 11 a.m., 3 p.m., and bedtime. And he does

stress dose 1 when necessary. Thanks for giving us that tip to

stress dose a little on the day you raise. That really helped.

Barb

[Guest guest]

" jasrich " wrote:

> you and DH take 200mg with meals with carbs. Do you think that

> the 500 is too much?

Yes, cause you're not a true diabetic, but you obviously have blood

sugar problems.

>What is the cut-off for there being enough carbs in a meal that you

should take it? I just had a protein bar with like 20 grams of carbs

in it but I don't expect that I should take a chromium?

I don't really know the exact cut-off, but I think you could get away

with 20 okay. It's dinners that tend to have pasta, potatoes, or

rice, that justify a chromium.

> How much more of the coconut oil? I even eat a tbsp off of the spoon

> like it says that you can do but don't want to get carried away.

If you're taking 1 T, take 2.

> You said that DH goes from 3PM to 10PM without a dose of HC? On

> purpose or do you have him on a customized schedule? Seems like it

> would be hard to get 6 doses in if he doesn't take any for that

long a time. And he's taking 2.5mg at bed right?

You two are similar in size (I think) but that might be about it.

He's 5'7 " and 154 lbs, and saliva showed him in stage 4. I believe

his AF is PTSD from work (the paranoid schizophrenic is gone now). I

think he got hypothyroid years ago when his doc put him on a beta

blocker for his BP. He used to be over 200 lbs, but we brought his

weight down with exercise and a high fiber diet. I took him off the

beta blocker cause I thought it was killing him and making him stupid

(brain fog?). (I have been playing doctor now for years. He is

now on 1.5 grains Armour and just starting to feel better

consistently. A month ago it was a good day, then a bad day, each

day was hit or miss. I had him at 10 mg for his first dose but

lowered it to 8, thinking it was the suppression thing, and it

worked, he's sleeping better. He is not on 6x/day dosing; only takes

4, 4, 3, 1 at 7 a.m., 11 a.m., 3 p.m., and bedtime. And he does

stress dose 1 when necessary. Thanks for giving us that tip to

stress dose a little on the day you raise. That really helped.

Barb

[Guest guest]

" jasrich " wrote:

> you and DH take 200mg with meals with carbs. Do you think that

> the 500 is too much?

Yes, cause you're not a true diabetic, but you obviously have blood

sugar problems.

>What is the cut-off for there being enough carbs in a meal that you

should take it? I just had a protein bar with like 20 grams of carbs

in it but I don't expect that I should take a chromium?

I don't really know the exact cut-off, but I think you could get away

with 20 okay. It's dinners that tend to have pasta, potatoes, or

rice, that justify a chromium.

> How much more of the coconut oil? I even eat a tbsp off of the spoon

> like it says that you can do but don't want to get carried away.

If you're taking 1 T, take 2.

> You said that DH goes from 3PM to 10PM without a dose of HC? On

> purpose or do you have him on a customized schedule? Seems like it

> would be hard to get 6 doses in if he doesn't take any for that

long a time. And he's taking 2.5mg at bed right?

You two are similar in size (I think) but that might be about it.

He's 5'7 " and 154 lbs, and saliva showed him in stage 4. I believe

his AF is PTSD from work (the paranoid schizophrenic is gone now). I

think he got hypothyroid years ago when his doc put him on a beta

blocker for his BP. He used to be over 200 lbs, but we brought his

weight down with exercise and a high fiber diet. I took him off the

beta blocker cause I thought it was killing him and making him stupid

(brain fog?). (I have been playing doctor now for years. He is

now on 1.5 grains Armour and just starting to feel better

consistently. A month ago it was a good day, then a bad day, each

day was hit or miss. I had him at 10 mg for his first dose but

lowered it to 8, thinking it was the suppression thing, and it

worked, he's sleeping better. He is not on 6x/day dosing; only takes

4, 4, 3, 1 at 7 a.m., 11 a.m., 3 p.m., and bedtime. And he does

stress dose 1 when necessary. Thanks for giving us that tip to

stress dose a little on the day you raise. That really helped.

Barb

[Guest guest]

hi -

I know that vitamin B (not sure which one) causes serious sleeplessness

and hunger for me. I always take B vitamins early AM to try to avoid

the restlessness at night. Hope that helps.

>

>> Questions:

>

> 1. What might have been the cause of all of the urine production? It

> had a very strong odor that I have noticed before too.

>

> 2. Is it possible that this BMAG shot that I'm getting is causing me p

> problems - even though I was taking the lesser of the two kinds of

> B-12, cyano-something, before, I usually felt good afterwards. I have

> not had that experience with the new shot.

>

[Guest guest]

> Yes, cause you're not a true diabetic, but you obviously have blood

> sugar problems.

Guess I'll have to add that $30 bottle of 500mg caps to my pile of

unused vits and supps. Do you get the chromium picolate? NSI has 300

200mg caps for $5.

> You two are similar in size (I think) but that might be about it.

> He's 5'7 " and 154 lbs, and saliva showed him in stage 4. I believe

> his AF is PTSD from work (the paranoid schizophrenic is gone now).

Yep, a lot closer in size now that we're both in this state - 5 " 7 and

a hair under 150 for me. Saliva showed me in stage 5. I think that my

adrenals are blown quite a bit worse than his b/c, at this point, I

don't think that I could go from 3PM to bed-time. Mine are also

hurting lately very noticeably for the first time - assuming that the

pain I'm feeling around where my R kidney is is the adrenal and that

we can actually experience pain like that contrary to what our docs

tell us.

>Thanks for giving us that tip to

> stress dose a little on the day you raise. That really helped.

I'm glad that that tip helped. The people over on Real Thyroid are

much more liberal about stress-dosing than we are over here - both

with re: to how often and how much, but I think that stress-dosing

some during and immediately after an Armour increase is probably a

good idea.

[Guest guest]

" jasrich " wrote:

> Guess I'll have to add that $30 bottle of 500mg caps to my pile of

> unused vits and supps. Do you get the chromium picolate? NSI has

300 200mg caps for $5.

You don't have to junk these. You apply your new favorite hobby to

them--pill cutting! Wow $30 is expensive, since as you've found,

they can be found pretty cheap. We use GTF chromium from Puritan's

Pride, and Walgreen's has a patented different one that's stronger,

chromium polynicotinate (not sure, bottle's gone).

> assuming that the

> pain I'm feeling around where my R kidney is is the adrenal and that

> we can actually experience pain like that contrary to what our docs

> tell us.

I've personally noticed 3 states for me: no pain, dull ache, and

actual twinges of pain. I got the actual pain when I raised the last

1/4 grain. I believe our bodies talk to us, but many don't listen.

I felt that was my signal to back off, and went back to my last dose,

then tried a 1/8 grain increase later with more support. That worked

and I only got the ache, instead of the pain, so kept with that dose

till the ache went away. Then eventually added another 1/8 later.

Barb

[Guest guest]

I take mine over steamed vegetables. If I am in a rush, I will eat it right off

the spoon. I take 2 tbsp each morning before my yoga class. I find it makes me

more flexible and gives me more stamina. Can't explain why it makes me more

flexible. A chiropractor on another forum says VCO makes him more flexible too.

Also, I used to be be susceptible to lung problems as a child, very sickly and

weak. Since starting the VCO 5 years ago I have had no infections or colds.

Pamela

jasrich wrote: Right off of

the spoon, or mixed with something?

>

> I would get my 3 tbsp of VCO before 3 pm. Some ppl find VCO too

stimulating to take for dinner. I take 2 tbsp in the morning and one

for lunch.

>

> Pamela

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I take mine over steamed vegetables. If I am in a rush, I will eat it right off

the spoon. I take 2 tbsp each morning before my yoga class. I find it makes me

more flexible and gives me more stamina. Can't explain why it makes me more

flexible. A chiropractor on another forum says VCO makes him more flexible too.

Also, I used to be be susceptible to lung problems as a child, very sickly and

weak. Since starting the VCO 5 years ago I have had no infections or colds.

Pamela

jasrich wrote: Right off of

the spoon, or mixed with something?

>

> I would get my 3 tbsp of VCO before 3 pm. Some ppl find VCO too

stimulating to take for dinner. I take 2 tbsp in the morning and one

for lunch.

>

> Pamela

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Guest guest]

> You don't have to junk these. You apply your new favorite hobby to

> them--pill cutting! Wow $30 is expensive, since as you've found,

> they can be found pretty cheap. We use GTF chromium from Puritan's

> Pride, and Walgreen's has a patented different one that's stronger,

> chromium polynicotinate (not sure, bottle's gone).

They're caps so no cutting and don't know that I can eyeball exactly

half of a cap (if it matters that much with chromium - I'm guessing

not?) and they have other stuff in them like vitamin C and mag. Yeah,

I liked this doc OK but I definitely let him sell me some products.

> I've personally noticed 3 states for me: no pain, dull ache, and

> actual twinges of pain. I got the actual pain when I raised the last

> 1/4 grain. I believe our bodies talk to us, but many don't listen.

> I felt that was my signal to back off, and went back to my last dose,

> then tried a 1/8 grain increase later with more support. That worked

> and I only got the ache, instead of the pain, so kept with that dose

> till the ache went away. Then eventually added another 1/8 later.

Mine is mostly an ache but it got bad enough yesterday when I was

waiting in line at the GD verizon store that I couldn't stand up

anymore - had to sit down. It is definitely worse when standing.

I've been on this dose of Armour (2 grains) for just a week now and it

hasn't been smooth sailing, as per usual with me, but that's b/c of

the problems with HC dosing, at least I think/hope so. With the pain

and dizziness my adrenals don't seem to be happy with me, but my body

is also screaming hypo at me so I'm not sure which system to listen

to. I just want to get up to the magic number of 3 grains of Armour

where all aches and pains go away, GI upset goes away, and the dark

cloud lifts. I'm not trying to poke fun, but it is so miserable

getting optimized that I honestly can't see this improving so

dramatically. I guess if weight loss and lowering my cholesterol had

been major issues for me than I would be feeling better about it

mentally, if not physically, but the pain, GI and mood are my major

issues (along with lots of minor ones) and those have mostly gotten

worse with Armour and HC. I need to have one of those good days that

people talk about.

J