Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Thanks for that URL Chris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Thanks for that URL Chris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Thanks for that URL Chris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 In a message dated 9/26/2002 8:40:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, simon@... writes: > I'd be concerned about practical issues with making healthy > clones safely, but once the technology is as safe as other > fertility treatments, why not? > Even if cloning were as safe as other fertility treatments, I have to wonder about the psychological impact to the child. Imagine that your child is a clone of yourself. As you watch your Mini Me go through a particularly awkward time of life, you remember exactly how much that phase of life hurt and want desparately to intervene. Of course, you'd feel the same if your child weren't a clone. But, unlike a natural child, you know exactly how long this difficult phase will last. Maybe you were 18 before you hit a growth spurt. What do you say to your child who is crying that at 12, all the other kids, including girls, are 6 inches taller than he is. Perhaps he doesn't have the sense of humor and ability to shrug off teasing like you did. Or maybe your child is overweight and you remember that you dieted unsuccessfully all your life and you don't want your baby to go through the same thing. So, you put her on a diet and exercise program, reaffirm her insecurites, and ensure she'll have an unhealthy body image for the rest of her life. I don't know about you, but adolescence was rough for me. My emotions would overwelm my judgement if I watched someone who looked just like me go through the same thing. Tori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 In a message dated 9/26/2002 8:40:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, simon@... writes: > I'd be concerned about practical issues with making healthy > clones safely, but once the technology is as safe as other > fertility treatments, why not? > Even if cloning were as safe as other fertility treatments, I have to wonder about the psychological impact to the child. Imagine that your child is a clone of yourself. As you watch your Mini Me go through a particularly awkward time of life, you remember exactly how much that phase of life hurt and want desparately to intervene. Of course, you'd feel the same if your child weren't a clone. But, unlike a natural child, you know exactly how long this difficult phase will last. Maybe you were 18 before you hit a growth spurt. What do you say to your child who is crying that at 12, all the other kids, including girls, are 6 inches taller than he is. Perhaps he doesn't have the sense of humor and ability to shrug off teasing like you did. Or maybe your child is overweight and you remember that you dieted unsuccessfully all your life and you don't want your baby to go through the same thing. So, you put her on a diet and exercise program, reaffirm her insecurites, and ensure she'll have an unhealthy body image for the rest of her life. I don't know about you, but adolescence was rough for me. My emotions would overwelm my judgement if I watched someone who looked just like me go through the same thing. Tori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 In a message dated 9/26/2002 8:40:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, simon@... writes: > I'd be concerned about practical issues with making healthy > clones safely, but once the technology is as safe as other > fertility treatments, why not? > Even if cloning were as safe as other fertility treatments, I have to wonder about the psychological impact to the child. Imagine that your child is a clone of yourself. As you watch your Mini Me go through a particularly awkward time of life, you remember exactly how much that phase of life hurt and want desparately to intervene. Of course, you'd feel the same if your child weren't a clone. But, unlike a natural child, you know exactly how long this difficult phase will last. Maybe you were 18 before you hit a growth spurt. What do you say to your child who is crying that at 12, all the other kids, including girls, are 6 inches taller than he is. Perhaps he doesn't have the sense of humor and ability to shrug off teasing like you did. Or maybe your child is overweight and you remember that you dieted unsuccessfully all your life and you don't want your baby to go through the same thing. So, you put her on a diet and exercise program, reaffirm her insecurites, and ensure she'll have an unhealthy body image for the rest of her life. I don't know about you, but adolescence was rough for me. My emotions would overwelm my judgement if I watched someone who looked just like me go through the same thing. Tori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 In a message dated 9/26/2002 2:45:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, L@... writes: > Tori > and > sob> > Good book, Tori.......hope you are well! God bless, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 In a message dated 9/26/2002 2:45:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, L@... writes: > Tori > and > sob> > Good book, Tori.......hope you are well! God bless, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 In a message dated 9/26/2002 2:45:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, L@... writes: > Tori > and > sob> > Good book, Tori.......hope you are well! God bless, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Hi and all, Did any of you see the special on last week about Reeve? His foundation is working very very hard on a bill that should be up before the Senate sometime next year to allow therapeutic cloning to produce stem cells to come up with cures for his paralisis AND to help find cures for many other diseases, including autoimmune diseases. It sounds so promising and it is done with unfertilized eggs in which they take a donor egg and inject a persons DNA into it to produce the needed stem cells to create whatever is needed for a person to be healed. You can read more about this at http://www.capwiz.com/reeve/issues/alert/?alertid=305341&type=CO I have long been a believer that our hope lies in stem cell research which was extremely limited by the Bush administration, hopefully things will change if we all were to contact our representatives in both the House and the Senate. I am NOT for human cloning, not by a longshot! If stem cells that are needed can be produced using an unfertilzed egg then it should be allowed. Reeve said on his special that he could go right now to the UK and have this done, come home walking and be arrested for how he became cured. There is something very wrong in this whole scenerio. They are so close to how to make this work and could do so much good with this, it should be allowed...all of us, those with no thyroids, those that have been ablated through I-131 and those with thyroids gone haywire because of our immune systems would all have a chance if we can get this to pass! Jody _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Hi Jody, Reeve - I'm very proud of him and he is an inspiration. If he can overcome what he's been through, then I can overcome *this*. What I want to know though is this, you said: Reeve said on his special that he could go right now to the UK and have this done, come home walking and be arrested for how he became cured. Well, why doesn't he just do it? I would. I would get my butt over there and do it. That just doesn't make sense. Say for example I go to Canada, I can smoke pot there if I want to because it's not against the law. If I come back home to the US, they can't arrest me for it. So why can't he go to England and have a medical procedure, and then come home cured? And say he does get cured and he comes home, what if he did get arrested? I would think any of today's juries would let him off (they let OJ off!), maybe set an example and get those laws changed. Except now they have in on record that he knew before hand that he would get in trouble... so that's not so good for his case, but still... it doesn't make sense. Thanks for sharing... I will keep my eye on stem cell stuff in the news from now on! Pam B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Here is an analogy- We all have skin on our butt. It serves a purpose where it is. If we sustain a burn somewhere else on our body, we can remove the skin off our butt and place it on the damaged area of skin so it can regenerate and heal us. Same thing with an unfertilized egg in my book...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Jody Spitale wrote: > > I am NOT for human cloning, not by a longshot! I don't have a problem with cloning. Now cloning for medical spare parts would be unethical, but cloning of itself, as say an infertility treatment doesn't bother me. Some of my best friends are clones - I mean identical twins. I'd be concerned about practical issues with making healthy clones safely, but once the technology is as safe as other fertility treatments, why not? Now quite why you would want clones when the other methods are so much fun, but I don't see this as some evil technology, although like most technologies it can be abused. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Pam, I quoted him wrong...he may have said he *could* go to the UK, using it as an example, to have it done, hubby says that he believes he said 'if it were available there'. It has been over a week since I watched it so hubby is probably right. Yahoo is screwing up again. I am not getting any of my e-mails, have to be on site to read and respond. Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Simon, >>>I don't have a problem with cloning. Now cloning for medical spare parts would be unethical, but cloning of itself, as say an infertility treatment doesn't bother me.<<< I don't follow your logic here. Why on earth would you be against stem cell research/theraputic cloning to help replace your own thyroid, or whatever needs fixed...but allowing human cloning is fine? I really am trying to understand your perspective on this. If they could regrow my thyroid in working order, fix our immune systems, cure Parkinsons, Alzheimers, cancers, MS, injuries...what is wrong with that? I would donate what is left of my egg reserve for research in this, even if they couldn't do anything for me in my life time. Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Simon, >>>I don't have a problem with cloning. Now cloning for medical spare parts would be unethical, but cloning of itself, as say an infertility treatment doesn't bother me.<<< I don't follow your logic here. Why on earth would you be against stem cell research/theraputic cloning to help replace your own thyroid, or whatever needs fixed...but allowing human cloning is fine? I really am trying to understand your perspective on this. If they could regrow my thyroid in working order, fix our immune systems, cure Parkinsons, Alzheimers, cancers, MS, injuries...what is wrong with that? I would donate what is left of my egg reserve for research in this, even if they couldn't do anything for me in my life time. Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Simon, >>>I don't have a problem with cloning. Now cloning for medical spare parts would be unethical, but cloning of itself, as say an infertility treatment doesn't bother me.<<< I don't follow your logic here. Why on earth would you be against stem cell research/theraputic cloning to help replace your own thyroid, or whatever needs fixed...but allowing human cloning is fine? I really am trying to understand your perspective on this. If they could regrow my thyroid in working order, fix our immune systems, cure Parkinsons, Alzheimers, cancers, MS, injuries...what is wrong with that? I would donate what is left of my egg reserve for research in this, even if they couldn't do anything for me in my life time. Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Hi Jody and all - Hope you are feeling better this morning, Jody. Yes, I saw that special on Reeve. That man is truly a hero!!!!! If the eggs are unfertilized, then what's all the hoopla?? I'd love to see thyroid replacements someday..... and soon! Just wanted to give you all a link to make it easier to figure out who your legislators are - these come in handy when on letter-writing campaigns...... http://www.firstgov.gov/Contact/By_agency.shtml Best Wishes, Chris --------------- > Hi and all, > Did any of you see the special on last week about Reeve? His > foundation is working very very hard on a bill that should be up before the > Senate sometime next year to allow therapeutic cloning to produce stem cells > to come up with cures for his paralisis AND to help find cures for many > other diseases, including autoimmune diseases. It sounds so promising and > it is done with unfertilized eggs in which they take a donor egg and inject > a persons DNA into it to produce the needed stem cells to create whatever is > needed for a person to be healed. You can read more about this at > > http://www.capwiz.com/reeve/issues/alert/?alertid=305341&type=CO > > I have long been a believer that our hope lies in stem cell research which > was extremely limited by the Bush administration, hopefully things will > change if we all were to contact our representatives in both the House and > the Senate. > > I am NOT for human cloning, not by a longshot! If stem cells that are > needed can be produced using an unfertilzed egg then it should be allowed. > > Reeve said on his special program on their site> that he could go right now to the UK and have this > done, come home walking and be arrested for how he became cured. There is > something very wrong in this whole scenerio. They are so close to how to > make this work and could do so much good with this, it should be > allowed...all of us, those with no thyroids, those that have been ablated > through I-131 and those with thyroids gone haywire because of our immune > systems would all have a chance if we can get this to pass! > Jody > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Hi Jody and all - Hope you are feeling better this morning, Jody. Yes, I saw that special on Reeve. That man is truly a hero!!!!! If the eggs are unfertilized, then what's all the hoopla?? I'd love to see thyroid replacements someday..... and soon! Just wanted to give you all a link to make it easier to figure out who your legislators are - these come in handy when on letter-writing campaigns...... http://www.firstgov.gov/Contact/By_agency.shtml Best Wishes, Chris --------------- > Hi and all, > Did any of you see the special on last week about Reeve? His > foundation is working very very hard on a bill that should be up before the > Senate sometime next year to allow therapeutic cloning to produce stem cells > to come up with cures for his paralisis AND to help find cures for many > other diseases, including autoimmune diseases. It sounds so promising and > it is done with unfertilized eggs in which they take a donor egg and inject > a persons DNA into it to produce the needed stem cells to create whatever is > needed for a person to be healed. You can read more about this at > > http://www.capwiz.com/reeve/issues/alert/?alertid=305341&type=CO > > I have long been a believer that our hope lies in stem cell research which > was extremely limited by the Bush administration, hopefully things will > change if we all were to contact our representatives in both the House and > the Senate. > > I am NOT for human cloning, not by a longshot! If stem cells that are > needed can be produced using an unfertilzed egg then it should be allowed. > > Reeve said on his special program on their site> that he could go right now to the UK and have this > done, come home walking and be arrested for how he became cured. There is > something very wrong in this whole scenerio. They are so close to how to > make this work and could do so much good with this, it should be > allowed...all of us, those with no thyroids, those that have been ablated > through I-131 and those with thyroids gone haywire because of our immune > systems would all have a chance if we can get this to pass! > Jody > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Hi Jody and all - Hope you are feeling better this morning, Jody. Yes, I saw that special on Reeve. That man is truly a hero!!!!! If the eggs are unfertilized, then what's all the hoopla?? I'd love to see thyroid replacements someday..... and soon! Just wanted to give you all a link to make it easier to figure out who your legislators are - these come in handy when on letter-writing campaigns...... http://www.firstgov.gov/Contact/By_agency.shtml Best Wishes, Chris --------------- > Hi and all, > Did any of you see the special on last week about Reeve? His > foundation is working very very hard on a bill that should be up before the > Senate sometime next year to allow therapeutic cloning to produce stem cells > to come up with cures for his paralisis AND to help find cures for many > other diseases, including autoimmune diseases. It sounds so promising and > it is done with unfertilized eggs in which they take a donor egg and inject > a persons DNA into it to produce the needed stem cells to create whatever is > needed for a person to be healed. You can read more about this at > > http://www.capwiz.com/reeve/issues/alert/?alertid=305341&type=CO > > I have long been a believer that our hope lies in stem cell research which > was extremely limited by the Bush administration, hopefully things will > change if we all were to contact our representatives in both the House and > the Senate. > > I am NOT for human cloning, not by a longshot! If stem cells that are > needed can be produced using an unfertilzed egg then it should be allowed. > > Reeve said on his special program on their site> that he could go right now to the UK and have this > done, come home walking and be arrested for how he became cured. There is > something very wrong in this whole scenerio. They are so close to how to > make this work and could do so much good with this, it should be > allowed...all of us, those with no thyroids, those that have been ablated > through I-131 and those with thyroids gone haywire because of our immune > systems would all have a chance if we can get this to pass! > Jody > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 I didn't realize they those concerns about test tube babies. In my mind, the two are worlds apart. Method of conception seems irrelevant to me other than to suggest how much the babies are wanted. In a message dated 9/26/2002 12:17:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jutek@... writes: > Hi Tori- > > They had all those worries about test tube babies. I remember all the > newspaper articles about how tortured Louise Brown would be as she grew up > (those of you in England-Did they follow-up on her emotionally?). Now > she's > approaching 25 or 30. > > The 2 babies I'm carrying are test tube babies and I don't think much about > how they were conceived at all although I'll probably tell them someday. > > Take care, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 What does all this mean in simple terms? In a message dated 9/26/2002 12:25:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jutek@... writes: > I have the opinion that it's pretty scary if I'm stopped from putting my own > skin cell nucleus into my own anucleate egg if I want to. > > If there's no conception and it is not allowed to develop to the > differentiated embryo stage, then I don't want anyone telling me I can't do > it. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Hi Tori- They had all those worries about test tube babies. I remember all the newspaper articles about how tortured Louise Brown would be as she grew up (those of you in England-Did they follow-up on her emotionally?). Now she's approaching 25 or 30. The 2 babies I'm carrying are test tube babies and I don't think much about how they were conceived at all although I'll probably tell them someday. Take care, > In a message dated 9/26/2002 8:40:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > simon@... writes: > > > > I'd be concerned about practical issues with making healthy > > clones safely, but once the technology is as safe as other > > fertility treatments, why not? > > > > Even if cloning were as safe as other fertility treatments, I have to wonder > about the psychological impact to the child. Imagine that your child is a > clone of yourself. As you watch your Mini Me go through a particularly > awkward time of life, you remember exactly how much that phase of life hurt > and want desparately to intervene. Of course, you'd feel the same if your > child weren't a clone. But, unlike a natural child, you know exactly how > long this difficult phase will last. Maybe you were 18 before you hit a > growth spurt. What do you say to your child who is crying that at 12, all > the other kids, including girls, are 6 inches taller than he is. Perhaps he > doesn't have the sense of humor and ability to shrug off teasing like you > did. Or maybe your child is overweight and you remember that you dieted > unsuccessfully all your life and you don't want your baby to go through the > same thing. So, you put her on a diet and exercise program, reaffirm her > insecurites, and ensure she'll have an unhealthy body image for the rest of > her life. I don't know about you, but adolescence was rough for me. My > emotions would overwelm my judgement if I watched someone who looked just > like me go through the same thing. > > Tori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Hi Simon- I think you mean if the cells were allowed to specialize in the embryo and then it was killed for it's specialized cells? Part of the problem with the definition is that they start calling a zygote or blastocyst an embryo right away. I can understand why people have a problem with even that though. I think the problem is that the Right to Life movement has always defined human life beginning at conception. If you take a diploid nucleus and inject it into an anucleate egg, there is no conception. Conception has always meant haploid egg DNA coming together with haploid sperm DNA. This has thrown a whole new wrench into things. And the right to life movement is trying to stop this kind of research too. And you're right about identical twins being clones. Even so, I have some problems with with it because it interferes with evolution. But, then again, look what I've done to become pregnant. An awful lot of people would say I'm not meant to have children. I make it right in my head by thinking that my infertility was medically induced. What if my infertility wasn't medically induced? Who am I to look down my nose at a couple desperate to have a baby? People are not going to choose that route unless they have no choice. I don't think that it would happen enough for it to make a difference in the big scheme of things. Anyhow, it was decidedly unfun getting pregnant this time and I much prefer the other way. Take care, > Jody Spitale wrote: > > > > I am NOT for human cloning, not by a longshot! > > I don't have a problem with cloning. Now cloning for medical > spare parts would be unethical, but cloning of itself, as say an > infertility treatment doesn't bother me. > > Some of my best friends are clones - I mean identical twins. > > I'd be concerned about practical issues with making healthy > clones safely, but once the technology is as safe as other > fertility treatments, why not? > > Now quite why you would want clones when the other methods are > so much fun, but I don't see this as some evil technology, > although like most technologies it can be abused. > > Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Hi Jody- I have the opinion that it's pretty scary if I'm stopped from putting my own skin cell nucleus into my own anucleate egg if I want to. If there's no conception and it is not allowed to develop to the differentiated embryo stage, then I don't want anyone telling me I can't do it. It's going to happen. Maybe not with me but that's the way research is going. Take care, > Hi and all, > Did any of you see the special on last week about Reeve? His > foundation is working very very hard on a bill that should be up before the > Senate sometime next year to allow therapeutic cloning to produce stem cells > to come up with cures for his paralisis AND to help find cures for many > other diseases, including autoimmune diseases. It sounds so promising and > it is done with unfertilized eggs in which they take a donor egg and inject > a persons DNA into it to produce the needed stem cells to create whatever is > needed for a person to be healed. You can read more about this at > > http://www.capwiz.com/reeve/issues/alert/?alertid=305341&type=CO > > I have long been a believer that our hope lies in stem cell research which > was extremely limited by the Bush administration, hopefully things will > change if we all were to contact our representatives in both the House and > the Senate. > > I am NOT for human cloning, not by a longshot! If stem cells that are > needed can be produced using an unfertilzed egg then it should be allowed. > > Reeve said on his special program on their site> that he could go right now to the UK and have this > done, come home walking and be arrested for how he became cured. There is > something very wrong in this whole scenerio. They are so close to how to > make this work and could do so much good with this, it should be > allowed...all of us, those with no thyroids, those that have been ablated > through I-131 and those with thyroids gone haywire because of our immune > systems would all have a chance if we can get this to pass! > Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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