Re: US Supreme Court rules in favor of Westboro Baptist Church!

March 3, 2011

Judgement Day is going to be a sad sad surprise to some people... and the worst

thing of all is that the adults are forcing their children down the same evil

road.

in WY

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" You get a wonderful view from the point of no return... "

US Supreme Court rules in favor of Westboro Baptist Church!

>

> I dislike this decision so much. This so-called " church " is so hateful and

> disgusting. I feel sick to my stomach for all the people they hurt by their

> actions...

> Sharon

>

> This email is a natural hand made product. The slight variations in spelling

> and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to

be

> considered flaws or defects.

>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110302/ap_on_re_us/us_supreme_court_funeral_protest\

s

>

> 1st Amendment protects military funeral protesters

> By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Mark Sherman, Associated Press 12 mins ago

> WASHINGTON Ã¢â‚¬ " The Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that the First Amendment

> protects fundamentalist church members who mount anti-gay protests outside

> military funerals, despite the pain they cause grieving families.

> The court voted 8-1 in favor of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan.

The

> decision upheld an appeals court ruling that threw out a $5 million judgment

to

> the father of a dead Marine who sued church members after they picketed his

> son's funeral.

> Chief Justice wrote the opinion for the court. Justice

Alito

> dissented.

> said free speech rights in the First Amendment shield the funeral

> protesters, noting that they obeyed police directions and were 1,000 feet from

> the church.

> " Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both

> joy and sorrow, and Ã¢â‚¬ " as it did here Ã¢â‚¬ " inflict great pain. On the

facts before

> us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker, " said. " As

a

> nation we have chosen a different course Ã¢â‚¬ " to protect even hurtful speech

on

> public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate. "

> Alito strongly disagreed. " Our profound national commitment to free and open

> debate is not a license for the vicious verbal assault that occurred in this

> case, " he said.

> Snyder died in Iraq in 2006 and his body was returned to the United

> States for burial. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church, who have picketed

> military funerals for several years, decided to protest outside the

> Westminster, Md., church where his funeral was to be held.

> The Rev. Fred Phelps and his family members who make up most of the Westboro

> Baptist Church have picketed many military funerals in their quest to draw

> attention to their incendiary view that U.S. deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq

are

> God's punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

> They showed up with their usual signs, including " Thank God for dead

soldiers, "

> " You're Going to Hell, " " God Hates the USA/Thank God for 9/11, " and one that

> combined the U.S. Marine Corps motto, Semper Fi, with a slur against gay men.

> The church members drew counter-demonstrators, as well as media coverage and a

> heavy police presence to maintain order. The result was a spectacle that led

to

> altering the route of the funeral procession.

> Several weeks later, Albert Snyder was surfing the Internet for tributes to

his

> son from other soldiers and strangers when he came upon a poem on the church's

> website that attacked 's parents for the way they brought up their son.

> Soon after, Snyder filed a lawsuit accusing the Phelpses of intentionally

> inflicting emotional distress. He won $11 million at trial, later reduced by a

> judge to $5 million.

> The federal appeals court in Richmond, Va., threw out the verdict and said the

> Constitution shielded the church members from liability.

> Forty-eight states, 42 U.S. senators and veterans groups sided with Snyder,

> asking the court to shield funerals from the Phelps family's " psychological

> terrorism. "

> While distancing themselves from the church's message, media organizations,

> including The Associated Press, urged the court to side with the Phelps family

> because of concerns that a victory for Snyder could erode speech rights.

> described the court's holding as narrow, and in a separate opinion,

> Justice Breyer suggested in other circumstances, governments would not

> be " powerless to provide private individuals with necessary protection. "

> But in this case, Breyer said, it would be wrong to " punish Westboro for

> seeking to communicate its views on matters of public concern. "

> Margie Phelps, a daughter of the minister and a lawyer who argued the case at

> the Supreme Court, said she expected the outcome. " The only surprise is that

> Justice Alito did not feel compelled to follow his oath, " Phelps said. " We

read

> the law. We follow the law. The only way for a different ruling is to shred

the

> First Amendment. "

>

> She also offered her church's view of the decision. " I think it's pretty

> self-explanatory, but here's the core point: The wrath of God is pouring onto

> this land. Rather than trying to shut us up, use your platforms to tell this

> nation to mourn for your sins. "

>

March 4, 2011

Do you have other laws in place to protect the sanctity of a funeral? If so, this bill should fit in with that, and not necessarily be affected by the constitutional right to free speech, I would think.There is no particular laws concerning protests at funerals in Sweden (it hasn't been a problem), but traffic regulations forbid the breaking up of a funeral convoy (the people taking part in the funeral following the coffin or urn to the cemetery, be that on foot or by car). In other words, if you are driving, and a funeral party (strange word in this context, but I could find no other) is passing by, you'll have to let them all pass by, together, before continuing to drive, attempting to drive through the convoy would make you liable of a fine. Same thing goes for all kinds of parades. But I guess, that would have no effect on a Westboro protest, as they (if I understand it correctly) tend to stand by the sides. And if someone would disturb the actual funeral service (in the church, or wherever it's taking place), the police would have a legal right to remove those doing that. Don't think the act would constitute a felony, but it wouldn't be something you have a legal right to do. Because in Sweden the constitutional right to hold a meeting (be that a religious service, a political meeting, or a funeral), includes the right to hold that meeting undisturbed, and it's the duty of the police to interfere if that right is threatened. Committing acts of vandalism on a grave site (disturb or destroy headstones, spray paint the headstones with graffiti, destroy flowers or plants, etc) is considered a criminal act as well. Protests outside of the church, and outside of the funeral service, would still be legal in Sweden too, though. As far as I can see, and given that they'd let the funeral party pass, and not break up the funeral convoy. And of course, as long as they stay off private property (no one is under any obligation to allow a protest on their private property, as far as I know). Just as protests at a political meeting held in a public place is legal as long as the protests is not interfering with or disturbing the meeting as such. For instance, I know that in a town in Sweden where Nazis began to hold public meetings in the town square a couple of years ago, the people of the town began the custom of picking up and visibly holding up their keys whenever they'd pass the town square when a Nazi meeting was going on, as a gesture saying: "this town will never be yours" (the town emblem is a key, so by showing that they were "holding the key", the people of the city said that they were "still holding the town"). Those protests were perfectly legal, as they didn't actually disturb the meeting as such. And in the end powerful enough to make the Nazi meetings stop. In other places people have surrounded Nazi demonstrations (much as you mentioned people doing with the Westboro protesters in some places), and that is also within then realm of what is legal (as long as the demonstration isn't disturbed, but only surrounded). I believe in doing whatever possible to protect the mourners from these Westboro protesters, and also in peaceful protests against the protesters (and I tend to think that if you can do that without giving them to much attention that is the best way, because attention is what they are seeking).But in terms of the legal issue, I would think using, and possibly adjusting, existing laws concerning funerals (if such exists), and concerning meetings etc, would/should be possible. The constitutional rights are equal for all, which means that while the Westboro people have constitutional rights, so do the people burying their dead. love/Reb; just thinking out loud.> >> > And they call themselves a church? Do they really believe they are Christian? > > It's horrible' they're giving all decent Christians a horrific name!> > This made me sick also to read it, Sharon.> > love,> > Kate> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: Sharon wobbletowalk@> > To: Group mserslife > > Sent: Wed, March 2, 2011 12:17:40 PM> > Subject: US Supreme Court rules in favor of Westboro Baptist Church!> > > > > > I dislike this decision so much. This so-called "church" is so hateful and > > disgusting. I feel sick to my stomach for all the people they hurt by their > > actions...> > Sharon> > > > This email is a natural hand made product. The slight variations in spelling > > and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be > >> > considered flaws or defects.> > > > > >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110302/ap_on_re_us/us_supreme_court_funeral_protests> >s> > > > > > > > > > 1st Amendment protects military funeral protesters> > By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Mark Sherman, Associated Press 12 mins ago > > WASHINGTON Ã¢â‚¬" The Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that the First Amendment > > protects fundamentalist church members who mount anti-gay protests outside > > military funerals, despite the pain they cause grieving families.> > The court voted 8-1 in favor of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan. The > >> > decision upheld an appeals court ruling that threw out a $5 million judgment to > >> > the father of a dead Marine who sued church members after they picketed his > > son's funeral.> > Chief Justice wrote the opinion for the court. Justice > >Alito > >> > dissented.> > said free speech rights in the First Amendment shield the funeral > > protesters, noting that they obeyed police directions and were 1,000 feet from > > > the church.> > "Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both > > joy and sorrow, and Ã¢â‚¬" as it did here Ã¢â‚¬" inflict great pain. On the facts > >before > >> > us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker," said. "As a > >> > nation we have chosen a different course Ã¢â‚¬" to protect even hurtful speech on > > > public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate."> > Alito strongly disagreed. "Our profound national commitment to free and open > > debate is not a license for the vicious verbal assault that occurred in this > > case," he said.> > Snyder died in Iraq in 2006 and his body was returned to the United > > States for burial. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church, who have picketed > > military funerals for several years, decided to protest outside the > > Westminster, Md., church where his funeral was to be held.> > The Rev. Fred Phelps and his family members who make up most of the Westboro > > Baptist Church have picketed many military funerals in their quest to draw > > attention to their incendiary view that U.S. deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq are > >> > God's punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.> > They showed up with their usual signs, including "Thank God for dead soldiers," > >> > "You're Going to Hell," "God Hates the USA/Thank God for 9/11," and one that > > combined the U.S. Marine Corps motto, Semper Fi, with a slur against gay men.> > The church members drew counter-demonstrators, as well as media coverage and a > > > heavy police presence to maintain order. The result was a spectacle that led to > >> > altering the route of the funeral procession.> > Several weeks later, Albert Snyder was surfing the Internet for tributes to his > >> > son from other soldiers and strangers when he came upon a poem on the church's > > > website that attacked 's parents for the way they brought up their son.> > Soon after, Snyder filed a lawsuit accusing the Phelpses of intentionally > > inflicting emotional distress. He won $11 million at trial, later reduced by a > > > judge to $5 million.> > The federal appeals court in Richmond, Va., threw out the verdict and said the > > > Constitution shielded the church members from liability.> > Forty-eight states, 42 U.S. senators and veterans groups sided with Snyder, > > asking the court to shield funerals from the Phelps family's "psychological > > terrorism."> > While distancing themselves from the church's message, media organizations, > > including The Associated Press, urged the court to side with the Phelps family > > > because of concerns that a victory for Snyder could erode speech rights.> > described the court's holding as narrow, and in a separate opinion, > > Justice Breyer suggested in other circumstances, governments would not > > > be "powerless to provide private individuals with necessary protection."> > But in this case, Breyer said, it would be wrong to "punish Westboro for > > seeking to communicate its views on matters of public concern."> > Margie Phelps, a daughter of the minister and a lawyer who argued the case at > > the Supreme Court, said she expected the outcome. "The only surprise is that > > Justice Alito did not feel compelled to follow his oath," Phelps said. "We read > >> > the law. We follow the law. The only way for a different ruling is to shred the > >> > First Amendment." > > > > She also offered her church's view of the decision. "I think it's pretty > > self-explanatory, but here's the core point: The wrath of God is pouring onto > > this land. Rather than trying to shut us up, use your platforms to tell this > > nation to mourn for your sins."> >>

March 4, 2011

this is the second or third attempt here to stop it - the only thing I can think of is to keep writing laws against it - fast track them through each legislature - let Westeboro keep dealing with it - I do not advocate what happened in McAlester - I understand why it was done - they were sending a message - Westboro is a cancer - it is a hate crime - until all 50 states say - family and grieving is off limits - this will continue to happen God, grant me the strength of eagles wings, the faith and courage to fly to new heights, and the wisdom to rely on his spirit to carry me there.

To: MSersLife Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 5:08:45 AMSubject: Re: US Supreme Court rules in favor of Westboro Baptist Church!

Do you have other laws in place to protect the sanctity of a funeral? If so, this bill should fit in with that, and not necessarily be affected by the constitutional right to free speech, I would think.

There is no particular laws concerning protests at funerals in Sweden (it hasn't been a problem), but traffic regulations forbid the breaking up of a funeral convoy (the people taking part in the funeral following the coffin or urn to the cemetery, be that on foot or by car). In other words, if you are driving, and a funeral party (strange word in this context, but I could find no other) is passing by, you'll have to let them all pass by, together, before continuing to drive, attempting to drive through the convoy would make you liable of a fine. Same thing goes for all kinds of parades. But I guess, that would have no effect on a Westboro protest, as they (if I understand it correctly) tend to stand by the sides.

And if someone would disturb the actual funeral service (in the church, or wherever it's taking place), the police would have a legal right to remove those doing that. Don't think the act would constitute a felony, but it wouldn't be something you have a legal right to do. Because in Sweden the constitutional right to hold a meeting (be that a religious service, a political meeting, or a funeral), includes the right to hold that meeting undisturbed, and it's the duty of the police to interfere if that right is threatened.

Committing acts of vandalism on a grave site (disturb or destroy headstones, spray paint the headstones with graffiti, destroy flowers or plants, etc) is considered a criminal act as well.

Protests outside of the church, and outside of the funeral service, would still be legal in Sweden too, though. As far as I can see, and given that they'd let the funeral party pass, and not break up the funeral convoy. And of course, as long as they stay off private property (no one is under any obligation to allow a protest on their private property, as far as I know).

Just as protests at a political meeting held in a public place is legal as long as the protests is not interfering with or disturbing the meeting as such. For instance, I know that in a town in Sweden where Nazis began to hold public meetings in the town square a couple of years ago, the people of the town began the custom of picking up and visibly holding up their keys whenever they'd pass the town square when a Nazi meeting was going on, as a gesture saying: "this town will never be yours" (the town emblem is a key, so by showing that they were "holding the key", the people of the city said that they were "still holding the town"). Those protests were perfectly legal, as they didn't actually disturb the meeting as such. And in the end powerful enough to make the Nazi meetings stop. In other places people have surrounded Nazi demonstrations (much as you mentioned people doing with the Westboro

protesters in some places), and that is also within then realm of what is legal (as long as the demonstration isn't disturbed, but only surrounded).

I believe in doing whatever possible to protect the mourners from these Westboro protesters, and also in peaceful protests against the protesters (and I tend to think that if you can do that without giving them to much attention that is the best way, because attention is what they are seeking).

But in terms of the legal issue, I would think using, and possibly adjusting, existing laws concerning funerals (if such exists), and concerning meetings etc, would/should be possible. The constitutional rights are equal for all, which means that while the Westboro people have constitutional rights, so do the people burying their dead.

love

/Reb; just thinking out loud.

> >> > And they call themselves a church? Do they really believe they are Christian? > > It's horrible' they're giving all decent Christians a horrific name!> > This made me sick also to read it, Sharon.> > love,> > Kate> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: Sharon wobbletowalk@> > To: Group mserslife > > Sent: Wed, March 2, 2011 12:17:40 PM> > Subject: US Supreme Court

rules in favor of Westboro Baptist Church!> > > > > > I dislike this decision so much. This so-called "church" is so hateful and > > disgusting. I feel sick to my stomach for all the people they hurt by their > > actions...> > Sharon> > > > This email is a natural hand made product. The slight variations in spelling > > and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be > >> > considered flaws or defects.> > > > > >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110302/ap_on_re_us/us_supreme_court_funeral_protests> >s> > > > > > > > > > 1st Amendment protects military funeral protesters> > By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Mark Sherman, Associated Press 12 mins ago > > WASHINGTON ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬" The Supreme Court ruled Wednesday

that the First Amendment > > protects fundamentalist church members who mount anti-gay protests outside > > military funerals, despite the pain they cause grieving families.> > The court voted 8-1 in favor of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan. The > >> > decision upheld an appeals court ruling that threw out a $5 million judgment to > >> > the father of a dead Marine who sued church members after they picketed his > > son's funeral.> > Chief Justice wrote the opinion for the court. Justice > >Alito > >> > dissented.> > said free speech rights in the First Amendment shield the funeral > > protesters, noting that they obeyed police directions and were 1,000 feet from > > > the church.> > "Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to

tears of both > > joy and sorrow, and ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬" as it did here ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬" inflict great pain. On the facts > >before > >> > us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker," said. "As a > >> > nation we have chosen a different course ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬" to protect even hurtful speech on > > > public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate."> > Alito strongly disagreed. "Our profound national commitment to free and open > > debate is not a license for the vicious verbal assault that occurred in this > > case," he said.> > Snyder died in Iraq in 2006 and his body was returned to the United > > States for burial. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church, who have picketed > > military funerals for several years, decided to protest outside the > > Westminster, Md., church where

his funeral was to be held.> > The Rev. Fred Phelps and his family members who make up most of the Westboro > > Baptist Church have picketed many military funerals in their quest to draw > > attention to their incendiary view that U.S. deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq are > >> > God's punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.> > They showed up with their usual signs, including "Thank God for dead soldiers," > >> > "You're Going to Hell," "God Hates the USA/Thank God for 9/11," and one that > > combined the U.S. Marine Corps motto, Semper Fi, with a slur against gay men.> > The church members drew counter-demonstrators, as well as media coverage and a > > > heavy police presence to maintain order. The result was a spectacle that led to > >> > altering the route of the funeral procession.> > Several

weeks later, Albert Snyder was surfing the Internet for tributes to his > >> > son from other soldiers and strangers when he came upon a poem on the church's > > > website that attacked 's parents for the way they brought up their son.> > Soon after, Snyder filed a lawsuit accusing the Phelpses of intentionally > > inflicting emotional distress. He won $11 million at trial, later reduced by a > > > judge to $5 million.> > The federal appeals court in Richmond, Va., threw out the verdict and said the > > > Constitution shielded the church members from liability.> > Forty-eight states, 42 U.S. senators and veterans groups sided with Snyder, > > asking the court to shield funerals from the Phelps family's "psychological > > terrorism."> > While distancing themselves from the church's message, media

organizations, > > including The Associated Press, urged the court to side with the Phelps family > > > because of concerns that a victory for Snyder could erode speech rights.> > described the court's holding as narrow, and in a separate opinion, > > Justice Breyer suggested in other circumstances, governments would not > > > be "powerless to provide private individuals with necessary protection."> > But in this case, Breyer said, it would be wrong to "punish Westboro for > > seeking to communicate its views on matters of public concern."> > Margie Phelps, a daughter of the minister and a lawyer who argued the case at > > the Supreme Court, said she expected the outcome. "The only surprise is that > > Justice Alito did not feel compelled to follow his oath," Phelps said. "We read > >> > the law. We follow

the law. The only way for a different ruling is to shred the > >> > First Amendment." > > > > She also offered her church's view of the decision. "I think it's pretty > > self-explanatory, but here's the core point: The wrath of God is pouring onto > > this land. Rather than trying to shut us up, use your platforms to tell this > > nation to mourn for your sins."> >>

March 4, 2011

We had a West Point cadet killed in Afghanistan. Only 24 years old. They are anticipatingthis 'hate group', yes, Westboro is supposed to show up. Hitting too close to home.West Point is about 20 miles from me.love to all,KateTo: MSersLife Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 7:34:58

AMSubject: Re: US Supreme Court rules in favor of Westboro Baptist Church!