Re: Re: Camomile / Chamomile

[Guest guest]

Elaine says she doesn't know the affects of Green Tea and there for limits to 2 cups a day. Look under Green Tea. Black tea is legal too. Look under Tea. On the list it is reccommended that it is made weak. So, week knocks out a lot of the caffiene I supposed. I guess it is a case of moderation is best.

Subject: Re: Camomile / ChamomileTo: BTVC-SCD Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 1:18 PM

If chamomile is considered illegal because of the way that it might move things through the gut too quickly, then wouldn't green and black tea be considered illegal for the same reasons? Both green and black tea contain caffeine, and caffeine is a known agent for increasing digestive flow-through, for lack of better word. :)thanks,Jill>> > OK, here are my thoughts on this:> > 1. Chamomile is one of my all-time favorite herbs > and my dream is to have a house with a chamomile > lawn someday. (Except that the way things grow > here in Louisiana, I'd probably lose the > dachshunds in it...chamomile is supposed to grow

> 3-4 inches tall. Right. Crepe myrtle is supposed > to be a low bush, and I park my car under these crepe myrtle TREES...).> > 2. No herb tea except the mints, black, and green > regular tea, and ginger is SCD legal. We can add > a bit of clove, for instance, to regular tea, but > we should not make clove tea. The difference is > quantitative -- the amount of clove essence that > we get from a single clove in a single cup of tea > (which should then be diluted) is vastly > difference from the amount of clove we would get > if we took a teaspoon of clove, poured boiling > water over it, let it steep, and then drank THAT tea.> > 3. Chamomile is well-known for its > anti-inflammatory properties, which would seem to > make it an ideal tea for SCDers. However... (you > knew it was coming, right?), I seriously do not think it would be

a wise idea.> > Had to go digging a bit, but I thought I > remembered something which was a cause for > concern. The following is from Healthnotes. Info. > It's confirmed in several other sources, but I > didn't have to type the following in.> > Chamomile has traditionally been used in Europe for gastrointestinal upsets.> > Chamomile is often taken three to four times > daily between meals as a tea. Common alternatives > are to use 2-3 grams of the herb in tablet or > capsule form or 4-6 ml of tincture three times > per day between meals. Standardized extracts > containing 1% apigenin and 0.5% volatile oils may > also be used. One to two capsules containing > 300-400 mg of extract may be taken three times > daily. Topical creams or ointments can be applied > to the affected area three to four times daily. > It has

been used for people on methotrexate, a > drug sometimes given for autoimmune issues, to help alleviate mouth sores.> > Though rare, allergic reactions to chamomile have > been reported. These reactions have included > bronchial constriction with internal use and > allergic skin reactions with topical use. While > reports of such side effects are uncommon, people > with allergies to plants of the Asteraceae family > (ragweed, aster, and chrysanthemums) , as well as > mugwort pollen should avoid using > chamomile. Chamomile is usually considered to be > safe during pregnancy or breast-feeding. However, > there is one case report in which a pregnant > woman who took chamomile as an enema had an > allergic reaction that led to the death of her newborn.> > The flowers of chamomile contain 1-2% volatile > oils including

alpha-bisabolol, alpha-bisabolol > oxides A & B, and matricin (usually converted to > chamazulene) .1 Other active constituents include > the flavonoids apigenin, luteolin, and quercetin. > These active ingredients contribute to > chamomile's anti-inflammatory, antispasmodic, and > smooth-muscle relaxing action, particularly in the gastrointestinal tract.> > It is this last trait which causes me serious > concern. If you're already either moving things > along too quickly, or not moving them at all, > then it seems to me probable that you wouldn't > want something which is going to completely relax > the gut. You will either open it up and allow > things to move on through that much more rapidly, > or cause your gut to lie down on the job and say, > "Well, yawn, I think I'll take a nap just now!"> > This strikes me as a Bad

Idea, and therefore, I'd > have to say that my considered opinion would be, > fond as I am of chamomile, and however many cups > of the lovely, aromatic brew I drank pre-SCD, not > to mention the number of tinctures and salves > I've compounded with it, that I could not, in good conscience, recommend it.> > If you are currently drinking it, and feel it has > benefit for you that outweighs the probable > negatives, then by all means, continue. (I > discussed an illegal supplement off list with > Elaine, and we concluded that for me, the > benefits outweighed the negatives, but the fact > that I do use it makes me that much more scrupulous about the rest of my diet.)> > If you are currently drinking it and are not > seeing the progress from SCD that you had hoped, > then I recommend eliminating it from your program > for at least

three months, and see what happens.> > If you are not currently drinking it, I really > could not suggest you start, because of my concerns.> > Sorry -- I liked it, too.> > > — Marilyn> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001> Darn Good SCD Cook> No Human Children> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund>

[Guest guest]

Elaine says she doesn't know the affects of Green Tea and there for limits to 2 cups a day. Look under Green Tea. Black tea is legal too. Look under Tea. On the list it is reccommended that it is made weak. So, week knocks out a lot of the caffiene I supposed. I guess it is a case of moderation is best.

Subject: Re: Camomile / ChamomileTo: BTVC-SCD Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 1:18 PM

If chamomile is considered illegal because of the way that it might move things through the gut too quickly, then wouldn't green and black tea be considered illegal for the same reasons? Both green and black tea contain caffeine, and caffeine is a known agent for increasing digestive flow-through, for lack of better word. :)thanks,Jill>> > OK, here are my thoughts on this:> > 1. Chamomile is one of my all-time favorite herbs > and my dream is to have a house with a chamomile > lawn someday. (Except that the way things grow > here in Louisiana, I'd probably lose the > dachshunds in it...chamomile is supposed to grow

> 3-4 inches tall. Right. Crepe myrtle is supposed > to be a low bush, and I park my car under these crepe myrtle TREES...).> > 2. No herb tea except the mints, black, and green > regular tea, and ginger is SCD legal. We can add > a bit of clove, for instance, to regular tea, but > we should not make clove tea. The difference is > quantitative -- the amount of clove essence that > we get from a single clove in a single cup of tea > (which should then be diluted) is vastly > difference from the amount of clove we would get > if we took a teaspoon of clove, poured boiling > water over it, let it steep, and then drank THAT tea.> > 3. Chamomile is well-known for its > anti-inflammatory properties, which would seem to > make it an ideal tea for SCDers. However... (you > knew it was coming, right?), I seriously do not think it would be

a wise idea.> > Had to go digging a bit, but I thought I > remembered something which was a cause for > concern. The following is from Healthnotes. Info. > It's confirmed in several other sources, but I > didn't have to type the following in.> > Chamomile has traditionally been used in Europe for gastrointestinal upsets.> > Chamomile is often taken three to four times > daily between meals as a tea. Common alternatives > are to use 2-3 grams of the herb in tablet or > capsule form or 4-6 ml of tincture three times > per day between meals. Standardized extracts > containing 1% apigenin and 0.5% volatile oils may > also be used. One to two capsules containing > 300-400 mg of extract may be taken three times > daily. Topical creams or ointments can be applied > to the affected area three to four times daily. > It has

been used for people on methotrexate, a > drug sometimes given for autoimmune issues, to help alleviate mouth sores.> > Though rare, allergic reactions to chamomile have > been reported. These reactions have included > bronchial constriction with internal use and > allergic skin reactions with topical use. While > reports of such side effects are uncommon, people > with allergies to plants of the Asteraceae family > (ragweed, aster, and chrysanthemums) , as well as > mugwort pollen should avoid using > chamomile. Chamomile is usually considered to be > safe during pregnancy or breast-feeding. However, > there is one case report in which a pregnant > woman who took chamomile as an enema had an > allergic reaction that led to the death of her newborn.> > The flowers of chamomile contain 1-2% volatile > oils including

alpha-bisabolol, alpha-bisabolol > oxides A & B, and matricin (usually converted to > chamazulene) .1 Other active constituents include > the flavonoids apigenin, luteolin, and quercetin. > These active ingredients contribute to > chamomile's anti-inflammatory, antispasmodic, and > smooth-muscle relaxing action, particularly in the gastrointestinal tract.> > It is this last trait which causes me serious > concern. If you're already either moving things > along too quickly, or not moving them at all, > then it seems to me probable that you wouldn't > want something which is going to completely relax > the gut. You will either open it up and allow > things to move on through that much more rapidly, > or cause your gut to lie down on the job and say, > "Well, yawn, I think I'll take a nap just now!"> > This strikes me as a Bad

Idea, and therefore, I'd > have to say that my considered opinion would be, > fond as I am of chamomile, and however many cups > of the lovely, aromatic brew I drank pre-SCD, not > to mention the number of tinctures and salves > I've compounded with it, that I could not, in good conscience, recommend it.> > If you are currently drinking it, and feel it has > benefit for you that outweighs the probable > negatives, then by all means, continue. (I > discussed an illegal supplement off list with > Elaine, and we concluded that for me, the > benefits outweighed the negatives, but the fact > that I do use it makes me that much more scrupulous about the rest of my diet.)> > If you are currently drinking it and are not > seeing the progress from SCD that you had hoped, > then I recommend eliminating it from your program > for at least

three months, and see what happens.> > If you are not currently drinking it, I really > could not suggest you start, because of my concerns.> > Sorry -- I liked it, too.> > > — Marilyn> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001> Darn Good SCD Cook> No Human Children> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund>

[Guest guest]

Elaine says she doesn't know the affects of Green Tea and there for limits to 2 cups a day. Look under Green Tea. Black tea is legal too. Look under Tea. On the list it is reccommended that it is made weak. So, week knocks out a lot of the caffiene I supposed. I guess it is a case of moderation is best.

Subject: Re: Camomile / ChamomileTo: BTVC-SCD Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 1:18 PM

If chamomile is considered illegal because of the way that it might move things through the gut too quickly, then wouldn't green and black tea be considered illegal for the same reasons? Both green and black tea contain caffeine, and caffeine is a known agent for increasing digestive flow-through, for lack of better word. :)thanks,Jill>> > OK, here are my thoughts on this:> > 1. Chamomile is one of my all-time favorite herbs > and my dream is to have a house with a chamomile > lawn someday. (Except that the way things grow > here in Louisiana, I'd probably lose the > dachshunds in it...chamomile is supposed to grow

> 3-4 inches tall. Right. Crepe myrtle is supposed > to be a low bush, and I park my car under these crepe myrtle TREES...).> > 2. No herb tea except the mints, black, and green > regular tea, and ginger is SCD legal. We can add > a bit of clove, for instance, to regular tea, but > we should not make clove tea. The difference is > quantitative -- the amount of clove essence that > we get from a single clove in a single cup of tea > (which should then be diluted) is vastly > difference from the amount of clove we would get > if we took a teaspoon of clove, poured boiling > water over it, let it steep, and then drank THAT tea.> > 3. Chamomile is well-known for its > anti-inflammatory properties, which would seem to > make it an ideal tea for SCDers. However... (you > knew it was coming, right?), I seriously do not think it would be

a wise idea.> > Had to go digging a bit, but I thought I > remembered something which was a cause for > concern. The following is from Healthnotes. Info. > It's confirmed in several other sources, but I > didn't have to type the following in.> > Chamomile has traditionally been used in Europe for gastrointestinal upsets.> > Chamomile is often taken three to four times > daily between meals as a tea. Common alternatives > are to use 2-3 grams of the herb in tablet or > capsule form or 4-6 ml of tincture three times > per day between meals. Standardized extracts > containing 1% apigenin and 0.5% volatile oils may > also be used. One to two capsules containing > 300-400 mg of extract may be taken three times > daily. Topical creams or ointments can be applied > to the affected area three to four times daily. > It has

been used for people on methotrexate, a > drug sometimes given for autoimmune issues, to help alleviate mouth sores.> > Though rare, allergic reactions to chamomile have > been reported. These reactions have included > bronchial constriction with internal use and > allergic skin reactions with topical use. While > reports of such side effects are uncommon, people > with allergies to plants of the Asteraceae family > (ragweed, aster, and chrysanthemums) , as well as > mugwort pollen should avoid using > chamomile. Chamomile is usually considered to be > safe during pregnancy or breast-feeding. However, > there is one case report in which a pregnant > woman who took chamomile as an enema had an > allergic reaction that led to the death of her newborn.> > The flowers of chamomile contain 1-2% volatile > oils including

alpha-bisabolol, alpha-bisabolol > oxides A & B, and matricin (usually converted to > chamazulene) .1 Other active constituents include > the flavonoids apigenin, luteolin, and quercetin. > These active ingredients contribute to > chamomile's anti-inflammatory, antispasmodic, and > smooth-muscle relaxing action, particularly in the gastrointestinal tract.> > It is this last trait which causes me serious > concern. If you're already either moving things > along too quickly, or not moving them at all, > then it seems to me probable that you wouldn't > want something which is going to completely relax > the gut. You will either open it up and allow > things to move on through that much more rapidly, > or cause your gut to lie down on the job and say, > "Well, yawn, I think I'll take a nap just now!"> > This strikes me as a Bad

Idea, and therefore, I'd > have to say that my considered opinion would be, > fond as I am of chamomile, and however many cups > of the lovely, aromatic brew I drank pre-SCD, not > to mention the number of tinctures and salves > I've compounded with it, that I could not, in good conscience, recommend it.> > If you are currently drinking it, and feel it has > benefit for you that outweighs the probable > negatives, then by all means, continue. (I > discussed an illegal supplement off list with > Elaine, and we concluded that for me, the > benefits outweighed the negatives, but the fact > that I do use it makes me that much more scrupulous about the rest of my diet.)> > If you are currently drinking it and are not > seeing the progress from SCD that you had hoped, > then I recommend eliminating it from your program > for at least

three months, and see what happens.> > If you are not currently drinking it, I really > could not suggest you start, because of my concerns.> > Sorry -- I liked it, too.> > > — Marilyn> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001> Darn Good SCD Cook> No Human Children> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund>

[Guest guest]

At 12:18 PM 6/28/2009, you wrote:

If chamomile is considered

illegal because of the way that it might move things through the gut too

quickly, then wouldn't green and black tea be considered illegal for the

same reasons? Both green and black tea contain caffeine, and caffeine is

a known agent for increasing digestive flow-through, for lack of better

word.

That's why we use regular tea diluted, to reduce the amount of caffeine.

Keep in mind that I am not a chemist or a biochemist. I can only go by

what I learned from Elaine Gottschall, and by what I can research for

myself.

I do know that Elaine admitted that she simply did not have the time or

the energy to research every possible medicinal herb, with all of its

permutations for a large group of people. That's especially true given

the way different people react to different foods or herbs and

spices.

She did say that chamomile wasn't legal. I'm simply offering my

conclusions as to a possible reason why.

I also know that every time I have tried to second-guess Elaine, I've

been proved wrong, so I'm sticking with what Elaine said. There are,

however, people who aren't content to accept " Because Elaine said

so.... " They insist that science has advanced since Elaine's

death.

I can only say, " Yes, science has advanced since Dr. Haas' death...

advanced so much it discounted all his research, and if not for Elaine

Gottschall keeping it alive, we would not have this wonderful and healing

diet. "

I stay with what she said because it works.

Sorry if this is a bit terse, but I'm taking flack behind the scenes over

my saying that I felt cocoa butter was legal because it was a pure fat.

" How DARE I change what Elaine wrote! " Except that so far as I

know, Elaine never wrote about cocoa butter.

If you don't like my reasoning, you don't have to accept it. But if you

choose to use something which Elaine declared illegal, and you don't see

the results you want from SCD, then yank the illegal, however beneficial

you think it is, and see what happens.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

> Sorry if this is a bit terse, but I'm taking flack behind the scenes

> over my saying that I felt cocoa butter was legal because it was a

> pure fat. " How DARE I change what Elaine wrote! " Except that so far

> as I know, Elaine never wrote about cocoa butter.

it's been great for me. no bad effect at all.

In the end, that's the proof of the pudding.

As we all know, even legal things can effect some people

badly.

Mara

[Guest guest]

> Sorry if this is a bit terse, but I'm taking flack behind the scenes

> over my saying that I felt cocoa butter was legal because it was a

> pure fat. " How DARE I change what Elaine wrote! " Except that so far

> as I know, Elaine never wrote about cocoa butter.

it's been great for me. no bad effect at all.

In the end, that's the proof of the pudding.

As we all know, even legal things can effect some people

badly.

Mara

[Guest guest]

> Sorry if this is a bit terse, but I'm taking flack behind the scenes

> over my saying that I felt cocoa butter was legal because it was a

> pure fat. " How DARE I change what Elaine wrote! " Except that so far

> as I know, Elaine never wrote about cocoa butter.

it's been great for me. no bad effect at all.

In the end, that's the proof of the pudding.

As we all know, even legal things can effect some people

badly.

Mara

[Guest guest]

At 02:31 PM 6/28/2009, you wrote:

Sorry if this is a bit terse,

but I'm taking flack behind the scenes

> over my saying that I felt cocoa butter was legal because it was a

> pure fat. " How DARE I change what Elaine wrote! " Except

that so far

> as I know, Elaine never wrote about cocoa butter.

it's been great for me. no bad effect at all. In the end, that's the

proof of the pudding.

As we all know, even legal things can effect some people

badly.

Mara,

I'm glad the cocoa butter has worked well for you -- I know how much you

enjoy your coffee drinks!

And yes, the fact that even legal foods can affect some people badly is

both the power and flexibility of SCD, and its chief

frustration.

We are given a RANGE of foods to eat. We add them as we are able to

tolerate them, on our body's individual and unique timetable. That's the

POWER and flexibility of SCD, because it can be endlessly rearranged to

meet individual needs.

The FRUSTRATION of SCD is knowing when you've done it " right. "

We are so used to being told, " On Day One, you may eat... " and

" Two weeks into the diet, you may have... " and " At four

months, you will have X, Y, or Z... " But my timetable may not be

your timetable, so the foods I could eat at 2-3 months may not be the

same foods you could eat at that point. (My classic example: carrots are

on the intro diet... but I didn't tolerate carrots until I'd been SCD for

6-9 months. OTOH, I was munching well-steamed broccoli by Month 3, and

broccoli can be notoriously hard to digest for many people.)

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

If chamomile is considered illegal because of the way that it might move things through the gut too quickly, then wouldn't green and black tea be considered illegal for the same reasons? Both green and black tea contain caffeine, and caffeine is a known agent for increasing digestive flow-through, for lack of better word. :)I'm also confused as to why caffeine is allowed. Seems like caffeine has a pretty bad rep in general. Pour Dieu, pour terre,Alyssa 15UC 1 year-ishSCD 2 weeks-ish (restarted)No meds!!!

[Guest guest]

I honestly don't know why people give you (and other mods) flack. You're volunteering an awful lot of your time to help other people, and it seems like they ought to be grateful for that. I am, and so are many other of the people here :-). I hope you don't let the people that snipe at you get you down!Agreed!!! And nvm about my caffeine question, I sent that before I read your response =) I always read my mail in order. Pour Dieu, pour terre,Alyssa 15UC 1 year-ishSCD 2 weeks-ish (restarted)No meds!!!

[Guest guest]

At 09:08 PM 6/28/2009, you wrote:

I'm also confused as to why

caffeine is allowed. Seems like caffeine has a pretty bad rep in

general.

Practicality, m'dear. Sick people, who are addicted to their starch,

sugar, and caffeine have a tough enough time giving up the starch and

sugar. In terms of gut issues, caffeine at least doesn't feed the bad

bugs.

Some folks find that as they heal, they cut down on caffeine use

significantly. I've had doctors stare at me when I tell them I drink tea

once a week, on Saturday nights. They can't imagine functioning without

caffeine. At one time, I couldn't imagine functioning with starch, sugar,

or caffeine, either.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

I think caffeine and smoking is like sugar--once you are off it awhile and try it again--it'll jolt you so much, you'll probably never want it again.  I hate the way I feel after having any sugar.

 

As hard as it is to stop smoking, I wouldn't try nicotine patches if I didn't smoke (but I don't have UC) and I'll probably notice a huge difference without caffeine and smoking.  Not sure where I'll get energy from tho.  Natural energy I hope.

 

Debbie 40 cd

I loved my morning coffee. In fact Starbucks with cream is the only " illegal " I miss. I never did eat a whole lot of starch and sugar. I decided to try making coffee again, without the cream, but it was not a good idea! I was used to the strong European kind....not what Elaine says is " weak " .

I felt " hyper " all day and had indigestion after I drank it. I'm sticking with peppermint tea from now on!! However, I can see why it is a better option than actually eating something illegal, but I'm not inclined to try it again.

I've never liked chamomile tea- won't miss it at all.PJ

> >I'm also confused as to why caffeine is allowed. > >Seems like caffeine has a pretty bad rep in general.> > Practicality, m'dear. Sick people, who are > addicted to their starch, sugar, and caffeine

> have a tough enough time giving up the starch and > sugar. In terms of gut issues, caffeine at least doesn't feed the bad bugs.> > Some folks find that as they heal, they cut down > on caffeine use significantly. I've had doctors

> stare at me when I tell them I drink tea once a > week, on Saturday nights. They can't imagine > functioning without caffeine. At one time, I > couldn't imagine functioning with starch, sugar, or caffeine, either.

> > > — Marilyn> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001> Darn Good SCD Cook> No Human Children> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

>