Guest guest Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Thanks, Marilyn, for your thorough explanation.I've not had any ill side effects from it, but unfortunately just bought two more small boxes of it.I'll probably just finish up my 20 bags and quit buying it. I liked it because it didn't aggravate my acid reflux. --On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Wizop Marilyn L. Alm wrote: OK, here are my thoughts on this: 1. Chamomile is one of my all-time favorite herbs and my dream is to have a house with a chamomile lawn someday. (Except that the way things grow here in Louisiana, I'd probably lose the dachshunds in it...chamomile is supposed to grow 3-4 inches tall. Right. Crepe myrtle is supposed to be a low bush, and I park my car under these crepe myrtle TREES...). 2. No herb tea except the mints, black, and green regular tea, and ginger is SCD legal. We can add a bit of clove, for instance, to regular tea, but we should not make clove tea. The difference is quantitative -- the amount of clove essence that we get from a single clove in a single cup of tea (which should then be diluted) is vastly difference from the amount of clove we would get if we took a teaspoon of clove, poured boiling water over it, let it steep, and then drank THAT tea. 3. Chamomile is well-known for its anti-inflammatory properties, which would seem to make it an ideal tea for SCDers. However... (you knew it was coming, right?), I seriously do not think it would be a wise idea. Had to go digging a bit, but I thought I remembered something which was a cause for concern. The following is from Healthnotes.Info. It's confirmed in several other sources, but I didn't have to type the following in. Chamomile has traditionally been used in Europe for gastrointestinal upsets. Chamomile is often taken three to four times daily between meals as a tea. Common alternatives are to use 2-3 grams of the herb in tablet or capsule form or 4-6 ml of tincture three times per day between meals. Standardized extracts containing 1% apigenin and 0.5% volatile oils may also be used. One to two capsules containing 300-400 mg of extract may be taken three times daily. Topical creams or ointments can be applied to the affected area three to four times daily. It has been used for people on methotrexate, a drug sometimes given for autoimmune issues, to help alleviate mouth sores. Though rare, allergic reactions to chamomile have been reported. These reactions have included bronchial constriction with internal use and allergic skin reactions with topical use. While reports of such side effects are uncommon, people with allergies to plants of the Asteraceae family (ragweed, aster, and chrysanthemums), as well as mugwort pollen should avoid using chamomile. Chamomile is usually considered to be safe during pregnancy or breast-feeding. However, there is one case report in which a pregnant woman who took chamomile as an enema had an allergic reaction that led to the death of her newborn. The flowers of chamomile contain 1-2% volatile oils including alpha-bisabolol, alpha-bisabolol oxides A & B, and matricin (usually converted to chamazulene).1 Other active constituents include the flavonoids apigenin, luteolin, and quercetin. These active ingredients contribute to chamomile’s anti-inflammatory, antispasmodic, and smooth-muscle relaxing action, particularly in the gastrointestinal tract. It is this last trait which causes me serious concern. If you're already either moving things along too quickly, or not moving them at all, then it seems to me probable that you wouldn't want something which is going to completely relax the gut. You will either open it up and allow things to move on through that much more rapidly, or cause your gut to lie down on the job and say, " Well, yawn, I think I'll take a nap just now! " This strikes me as a Bad Idea, and therefore, I'd have to say that my considered opinion would be, fond as I am of chamomile, and however many cups of the lovely, aromatic brew I drank pre-SCD, not to mention the number of tinctures and salves I've compounded with it, that I could not, in good conscience, recommend it. If you are currently drinking it, and feel it has benefit for you that outweighs the probable negatives, then by all means, continue. (I discussed an illegal supplement off list with Elaine, and we concluded that for me, the benefits outweighed the negatives, but the fact that I do use it makes me that much more scrupulous about the rest of my diet.) If you are currently drinking it and are not seeing the progress from SCD that you had hoped, then I recommend eliminating it from your program for at least three months, and see what happens. If you are not currently drinking it, I really could not suggest you start, because of my concerns. Sorry -- I liked it, too. — Marilyn New Orleans, Louisiana, USA Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 Darn Good SCD Cook No Human Children Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 If chamomile is considered illegal because of the way that it might move things through the gut too quickly, then wouldn't green and black tea be considered illegal for the same reasons? Both green and black tea contain caffeine, and caffeine is a known agent for increasing digestive flow-through, for lack of better word. thanks, Jill > > > OK, here are my thoughts on this: > > 1. Chamomile is one of my all-time favorite herbs > and my dream is to have a house with a chamomile > lawn someday. (Except that the way things grow > here in Louisiana, I'd probably lose the > dachshunds in it...chamomile is supposed to grow > 3-4 inches tall. Right. Crepe myrtle is supposed > to be a low bush, and I park my car under these crepe myrtle TREES...). > > 2. No herb tea except the mints, black, and green > regular tea, and ginger is SCD legal. We can add > a bit of clove, for instance, to regular tea, but > we should not make clove tea. The difference is > quantitative -- the amount of clove essence that > we get from a single clove in a single cup of tea > (which should then be diluted) is vastly > difference from the amount of clove we would get > if we took a teaspoon of clove, poured boiling > water over it, let it steep, and then drank THAT tea. > > 3. Chamomile is well-known for its > anti-inflammatory properties, which would seem to > make it an ideal tea for SCDers. However... (you > knew it was coming, right?), I seriously do not think it would be a wise idea. > > Had to go digging a bit, but I thought I > remembered something which was a cause for > concern. The following is from Healthnotes.Info. > It's confirmed in several other sources, but I > didn't have to type the following in. > > Chamomile has traditionally been used in Europe for gastrointestinal upsets. > > Chamomile is often taken three to four times > daily between meals as a tea. Common alternatives > are to use 2-3 grams of the herb in tablet or > capsule form or 4-6 ml of tincture three times > per day between meals. Standardized extracts > containing 1% apigenin and 0.5% volatile oils may > also be used. One to two capsules containing > 300-400 mg of extract may be taken three times > daily. Topical creams or ointments can be applied > to the affected area three to four times daily. > It has been used for people on methotrexate, a > drug sometimes given for autoimmune issues, to help alleviate mouth sores. > > Though rare, allergic reactions to chamomile have > been reported. These reactions have included > bronchial constriction with internal use and > allergic skin reactions with topical use. While > reports of such side effects are uncommon, people > with allergies to plants of the Asteraceae family > (ragweed, aster, and chrysanthemums), as well as > mugwort pollen should avoid using > chamomile. Chamomile is usually considered to be > safe during pregnancy or breast-feeding. However, > there is one case report in which a pregnant > woman who took chamomile as an enema had an > allergic reaction that led to the death of her newborn. > > The flowers of chamomile contain 1-2% volatile > oils including alpha-bisabolol, alpha-bisabolol > oxides A & B, and matricin (usually converted to > chamazulene).1 Other active constituents include > the flavonoids apigenin, luteolin, and quercetin. > These active ingredients contribute to > chamomile's anti-inflammatory, antispasmodic, and > smooth-muscle relaxing action, particularly in the gastrointestinal tract. > > It is this last trait which causes me serious > concern. If you're already either moving things > along too quickly, or not moving them at all, > then it seems to me probable that you wouldn't > want something which is going to completely relax > the gut. You will either open it up and allow > things to move on through that much more rapidly, > or cause your gut to lie down on the job and say, > " Well, yawn, I think I'll take a nap just now! " > > This strikes me as a Bad Idea, and therefore, I'd > have to say that my considered opinion would be, > fond as I am of chamomile, and however many cups > of the lovely, aromatic brew I drank pre-SCD, not > to mention the number of tinctures and salves > I've compounded with it, that I could not, in good conscience, recommend it. > > If you are currently drinking it, and feel it has > benefit for you that outweighs the probable > negatives, then by all means, continue. (I > discussed an illegal supplement off list with > Elaine, and we concluded that for me, the > benefits outweighed the negatives, but the fact > that I do use it makes me that much more scrupulous about the rest of my diet.) > > If you are currently drinking it and are not > seeing the progress from SCD that you had hoped, > then I recommend eliminating it from your program > for at least three months, and see what happens. > > If you are not currently drinking it, I really > could not suggest you start, because of my concerns. > > Sorry -- I liked it, too. > > > — Marilyn > New Orleans, Louisiana, USA > Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 > Darn Good SCD Cook > No Human Children > Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 I agree with the caffeine caution. I made coffee too strong this am- nothing major happened thank goodness, but I did not feel good after drinking it. Even in people not on SCD- it moves things along. I think Elaine was right on top of this, after all, her child's health was at stake. So I would agree with her recommendations. It's not worth rocking the boat. I would like to add that I am very grateful to all the moderators on this board who share their time and expertise with us. PJ > >If chamomile is considered illegal because of > >the way that it might move things through the > >gut too quickly, then wouldn't green and black > >tea be considered illegal for the same reasons? > >Both green and black tea contain caffeine, and > >caffeine is a known agent for increasing > >digestive flow-through, for lack of better word. > > That's why we use regular tea diluted, to reduce > the amount of caffeine. Keep in mind that I am > not a chemist or a biochemist. I can only go by > what I learned from Elaine Gottschall, and by what I can research for myself. > > I do know that Elaine admitted that she simply > did not have the time or the energy to research > every possible medicinal herb, with all of its > permutations for a large group of people. That's > especially true given the way different people > react to different foods or herbs and spices. > > She did say that chamomile wasn't legal. I'm > simply offering my conclusions as to a possible reason why. > > I also know that every time I have tried to > second-guess Elaine, I've been proved wrong, so > I'm sticking with what Elaine said. There are, > however, people who aren't content to accept > " Because Elaine said so.... " They insist that > science has advanced since Elaine's death. > > I can only say, " Yes, science has advanced since > Dr. Haas' death... advanced so much it discounted > all his research, and if not for Elaine > Gottschall keeping it alive, we would not have > this wonderful and healing diet. " > > I stay with what she said because it works. > > Sorry if this is a bit terse, but I'm taking > flack behind the scenes over my saying that I > felt cocoa butter was legal because it was a pure > fat. " How DARE I change what Elaine wrote! " > Except that so far as I know, Elaine never wrote about cocoa butter. > > If you don't like my reasoning, you don't have to > accept it. But if you choose to use something > which Elaine declared illegal, and you don't see > the results you want from SCD, then yank the > illegal, however beneficial you think it is, and see what happens. > > > > > — Marilyn > New Orleans, Louisiana, USA > Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 > Darn Good SCD Cook > No Human Children > Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 I agree with the caffeine caution. I made coffee too strong this am- nothing major happened thank goodness, but I did not feel good after drinking it. Even in people not on SCD- it moves things along. I think Elaine was right on top of this, after all, her child's health was at stake. So I would agree with her recommendations. It's not worth rocking the boat. I would like to add that I am very grateful to all the moderators on this board who share their time and expertise with us. PJ > >If chamomile is considered illegal because of > >the way that it might move things through the > >gut too quickly, then wouldn't green and black > >tea be considered illegal for the same reasons? > >Both green and black tea contain caffeine, and > >caffeine is a known agent for increasing > >digestive flow-through, for lack of better word. > > That's why we use regular tea diluted, to reduce > the amount of caffeine. Keep in mind that I am > not a chemist or a biochemist. I can only go by > what I learned from Elaine Gottschall, and by what I can research for myself. > > I do know that Elaine admitted that she simply > did not have the time or the energy to research > every possible medicinal herb, with all of its > permutations for a large group of people. That's > especially true given the way different people > react to different foods or herbs and spices. > > She did say that chamomile wasn't legal. I'm > simply offering my conclusions as to a possible reason why. > > I also know that every time I have tried to > second-guess Elaine, I've been proved wrong, so > I'm sticking with what Elaine said. There are, > however, people who aren't content to accept > " Because Elaine said so.... " They insist that > science has advanced since Elaine's death. > > I can only say, " Yes, science has advanced since > Dr. Haas' death... advanced so much it discounted > all his research, and if not for Elaine > Gottschall keeping it alive, we would not have > this wonderful and healing diet. " > > I stay with what she said because it works. > > Sorry if this is a bit terse, but I'm taking > flack behind the scenes over my saying that I > felt cocoa butter was legal because it was a pure > fat. " How DARE I change what Elaine wrote! " > Except that so far as I know, Elaine never wrote about cocoa butter. > > If you don't like my reasoning, you don't have to > accept it. But if you choose to use something > which Elaine declared illegal, and you don't see > the results you want from SCD, then yank the > illegal, however beneficial you think it is, and see what happens. > > > > > — Marilyn > New Orleans, Louisiana, USA > Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 > Darn Good SCD Cook > No Human Children > Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 I agree with the caffeine caution. I made coffee too strong this am- nothing major happened thank goodness, but I did not feel good after drinking it. Even in people not on SCD- it moves things along. I think Elaine was right on top of this, after all, her child's health was at stake. So I would agree with her recommendations. It's not worth rocking the boat. I would like to add that I am very grateful to all the moderators on this board who share their time and expertise with us. PJ > >If chamomile is considered illegal because of > >the way that it might move things through the > >gut too quickly, then wouldn't green and black > >tea be considered illegal for the same reasons? > >Both green and black tea contain caffeine, and > >caffeine is a known agent for increasing > >digestive flow-through, for lack of better word. > > That's why we use regular tea diluted, to reduce > the amount of caffeine. Keep in mind that I am > not a chemist or a biochemist. I can only go by > what I learned from Elaine Gottschall, and by what I can research for myself. > > I do know that Elaine admitted that she simply > did not have the time or the energy to research > every possible medicinal herb, with all of its > permutations for a large group of people. That's > especially true given the way different people > react to different foods or herbs and spices. > > She did say that chamomile wasn't legal. I'm > simply offering my conclusions as to a possible reason why. > > I also know that every time I have tried to > second-guess Elaine, I've been proved wrong, so > I'm sticking with what Elaine said. There are, > however, people who aren't content to accept > " Because Elaine said so.... " They insist that > science has advanced since Elaine's death. > > I can only say, " Yes, science has advanced since > Dr. Haas' death... advanced so much it discounted > all his research, and if not for Elaine > Gottschall keeping it alive, we would not have > this wonderful and healing diet. " > > I stay with what she said because it works. > > Sorry if this is a bit terse, but I'm taking > flack behind the scenes over my saying that I > felt cocoa butter was legal because it was a pure > fat. " How DARE I change what Elaine wrote! " > Except that so far as I know, Elaine never wrote about cocoa butter. > > If you don't like my reasoning, you don't have to > accept it. But if you choose to use something > which Elaine declared illegal, and you don't see > the results you want from SCD, then yank the > illegal, however beneficial you think it is, and see what happens. > > > > > — Marilyn > New Orleans, Louisiana, USA > Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 > Darn Good SCD Cook > No Human Children > Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I loved my morning coffee. In fact Starbucks with cream is the only " illegal " I miss. I never did eat a whole lot of starch and sugar. I decided to try making coffee again, without the cream, but it was not a good idea! I was used to the strong European kind....not what Elaine says is " weak " . I felt " hyper " all day and had indigestion after I drank it. I'm sticking with peppermint tea from now on!! However, I can see why it is a better option than actually eating something illegal, but I'm not inclined to try it again. I've never liked chamomile tea- won't miss it at all. PJ > >I'm also confused as to why caffeine is allowed. > >Seems like caffeine has a pretty bad rep in general. > > Practicality, m'dear. Sick people, who are > addicted to their starch, sugar, and caffeine > have a tough enough time giving up the starch and > sugar. In terms of gut issues, caffeine at least doesn't feed the bad bugs. > > Some folks find that as they heal, they cut down > on caffeine use significantly. I've had doctors > stare at me when I tell them I drink tea once a > week, on Saturday nights. They can't imagine > functioning without caffeine. At one time, I > couldn't imagine functioning with starch, sugar, or caffeine, either. > > > — Marilyn > New Orleans, Louisiana, USA > Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 > Darn Good SCD Cook > No Human Children > Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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