Re: Prednisolone not working after 1/8 grain increase

February 6, 2008

" jasrich " wrote:

> I started on Sat.

> night at around 9PM and slept great, but could not really wake up or

> think until after noon the next day.

Okay, so that's 15 hours from when you took it till you woke. So if

you take it at 6 p.m., you'd start to wake around 9 a.m. the next day.

Maybe you should go back to 1.25 ml at 6 p.m., and move your HC dose

for that time to bedtime instead? These are only suggestions, I have

no idea if they'll work, but obviously, what you're doing now isn't

working, and I like experimenting.

Barb

February 6, 2008

Thanks Cherie. Just finished my telephone appt with my new doc and he

said the same thing - wants me to back up on the Armour to 2 grains to

try to get back to where I was sleeping on the Pediapred and then back

off on the Pediapred to try to get less of that sedating effect the

next day - and to take it earlier like Val already said.

We talked about whether Armour is even going to work for me given how

much trouble that I have had increasing (some admittedly

self-inflicted) and given that, according to food sensitivity testing

I am supposedly more than a little insensitive/intolerant of pork. He

said that they test against pork muscle, not endocrine tissue, but

that it could possibly be a factor. He also said that he has patients

that do well on combos of Synthroid and Armour Cytomel, Thyrolar, etc.

He doesn't want to give up on Armour yet, but I let him know that I

am really struggling and have been and that I need to see some

positive progress soon if just for mental health.

We're going to look at aldosterone and renin again b/c we haven't

tested that in a while and maybe low aldosterone is why I am having so

much trouble with cortisol.

He also did not disregard " adrenal pain " stating that he has patients

that describe the same kind of pain that we talk about here and that

conventional docs don't believe in. All in all, a very good appt,

even if it was via telephone. I like this doc and I would definitely

recommend him to anyone living in the SE or anywhere.

Thank you for your response.

>

> ,

>

> I know you don't want to hear this, but if you feel the Armour

increase is

> messing things up why not back off on it for a bit.

February 6, 2008

If I move that dose of HC to bed-time that leaves a gap of 3:30 or so

to 10:30 with no HC. I don't think that I would make it.

I guess that I'm going to do as my doc and Cherie suggested today and

dial back the Armour to 2 grains (I hate to back out of even the 1/8

but I over did it and can't seem to get recovered, although, despite

my sleep problems last night I felt better today than yesterday and

only had to stress dose once) and leave the pred dose where it is at

8PM and go back to 1.25 - I would rather sleep and be a zombie than

wake up hypogly again.

> > I started on Sat.

> > night at around 9PM and slept great, but could not really wake up or

> > think until after noon the next day.

>

> Okay, so that's 15 hours from when you took it till you woke. So if

> you take it at 6 p.m., you'd start to wake around 9 a.m. the next day.

> Maybe you should go back to 1.25 ml at 6 p.m., and move your HC dose

> for that time to bedtime instead? These are only suggestions, I have

> no idea if they'll work, but obviously, what you're doing now isn't

> working, and I like experimenting.

>

> Barb

>

February 6, 2008

Cumming, GA, about 45 minutes to an hour north of Atlanta. I am

keeping a bit of a journal in the temp spreadsheet. I just don't have

anything good to report in it yet

>

> Well, he must be an amazing doctor if he agrees with me. :-) Just

kidding!

> Honestly he sounds like a really good doctor and is looking into

things and

> willing to work with you on everything. Just remember to go slowly as

> frustrating as it is. I read somewhere a reccommendation of keeping a

> journal so you can look back and see if you've made progress in how

you feel

> even if it is minimal. Where is your doctor again?

>

> Rie

February 7, 2008

What is current HC dosing schedule?

When you woke at 4 a.m. and fell back asleep till alarm went off, if

alarm hadn't gone off do you think you would've slept much longer?

Trying to figure out if pred kicks in late, like 4 a.m., or early and

runs out.

Barb

" jasrich " wrote:

>

> Well I did exactly as my doc and I discussed. I cut the Armour back

> to 2 grains and took the pred liquid at 8PM and took the full dose

of

> 1.25ml that I slept great on over the weekend, but then could not

wake

> up all morning. I also had my mag drink and a snack, just like over

> the weekend. Took my Klono and fell dead asleep at 10:30 and then

woke

> up at 1:45 with a full bladder, dehydrated, sweating, and stomach

> growling and full of air. WTH!?! Apparently there is no going

back.

> For the hell of it, before I ate and took more HC, I tested my

blood

> sugar (I had last eaten 4 hours before) and it was 112 so I'm

assuming

> that I was not hypoglycemic. I ate a piece of cheese, took 2.5mg of

> HC and, fell back to sleep pretty quickly afterwards untill 4AM

when I

> woke up sweating again, and the fell right back to sleep until my

> alarm went off at 7AM. I was totally in a fog trying to get ready

for

> and driving to work but I'm more or less normal now. I took 10mg of

> HC at 8AM and another 10mg at noon with lunch which was a little

late

> b/c I had already started feeling dizzy but that feeling has faded.

>

> I really don't what to think about how to dose the pred and HC

> together and I can see why Val isn't too eager to suggest it to

> people. Should I take it between 6 and 7PM in the hopes that it

will

> do its thing overnight, still take my 6:30PM and bed-time doses of

HC

> so that I don't wake up in the middle of the night needing cortisol,

> and then take less HC during the day to make up for it? If it's not

> hypoglycemia waking me up in the middle of the night can I still be

> low cortisol? Maybe it's too much cortisol but then why does the

> 2.5mg help me get back to sleep? I have no idea how to do this.

>

> >

> > If I move that dose of HC to bed-time that leaves a gap of 3:30

or so

> > to 10:30 with no HC. I don't think that I would make it.

> >

> > I guess that I'm going to do as my doc and Cherie suggested today

and

> > dial back the Armour to 2 grains (I hate to back out of even the

1/8

> > but I over did it and can't seem to get recovered, although,

despite

> > my sleep problems last night I felt better today than yesterday

and

> > only had to stress dose once) and leave the pred dose where it is

at

> > 8PM and go back to 1.25 - I would rather sleep and be a zombie

than

> > wake up hypogly again.

> >

>

February 7, 2008

What is current HC dosing schedule?

When you woke at 4 a.m. and fell back asleep till alarm went off, if

alarm hadn't gone off do you think you would've slept much longer?

Trying to figure out if pred kicks in late, like 4 a.m., or early and

runs out.

Barb

" jasrich " wrote:

>

> Well I did exactly as my doc and I discussed. I cut the Armour back

> to 2 grains and took the pred liquid at 8PM and took the full dose

of

> 1.25ml that I slept great on over the weekend, but then could not

wake

> up all morning. I also had my mag drink and a snack, just like over

> the weekend. Took my Klono and fell dead asleep at 10:30 and then

woke

> up at 1:45 with a full bladder, dehydrated, sweating, and stomach

> growling and full of air. WTH!?! Apparently there is no going

back.

> For the hell of it, before I ate and took more HC, I tested my

blood

> sugar (I had last eaten 4 hours before) and it was 112 so I'm

assuming

> that I was not hypoglycemic. I ate a piece of cheese, took 2.5mg of

> HC and, fell back to sleep pretty quickly afterwards untill 4AM

when I

> woke up sweating again, and the fell right back to sleep until my

> alarm went off at 7AM. I was totally in a fog trying to get ready

for

> and driving to work but I'm more or less normal now. I took 10mg of

> HC at 8AM and another 10mg at noon with lunch which was a little

late

> b/c I had already started feeling dizzy but that feeling has faded.

>

> I really don't what to think about how to dose the pred and HC

> together and I can see why Val isn't too eager to suggest it to

> people. Should I take it between 6 and 7PM in the hopes that it

will

> do its thing overnight, still take my 6:30PM and bed-time doses of

HC

> so that I don't wake up in the middle of the night needing cortisol,

> and then take less HC during the day to make up for it? If it's not

> hypoglycemia waking me up in the middle of the night can I still be

> low cortisol? Maybe it's too much cortisol but then why does the

> 2.5mg help me get back to sleep? I have no idea how to do this.

>

> >

> > If I move that dose of HC to bed-time that leaves a gap of 3:30

or so

> > to 10:30 with no HC. I don't think that I would make it.

> >

> > I guess that I'm going to do as my doc and Cherie suggested today

and

> > dial back the Armour to 2 grains (I hate to back out of even the

1/8

> > but I over did it and can't seem to get recovered, although,

despite

> > my sleep problems last night I felt better today than yesterday

and

> > only had to stress dose once) and leave the pred dose where it is

at

> > 8PM and go back to 1.25 - I would rather sleep and be a zombie

than

> > wake up hypogly again.

> >

>

February 7, 2008

What is current HC dosing schedule?

When you woke at 4 a.m. and fell back asleep till alarm went off, if

alarm hadn't gone off do you think you would've slept much longer?

Trying to figure out if pred kicks in late, like 4 a.m., or early and

runs out.

Barb

" jasrich " wrote:

>

> Well I did exactly as my doc and I discussed. I cut the Armour back

> to 2 grains and took the pred liquid at 8PM and took the full dose

of

> 1.25ml that I slept great on over the weekend, but then could not

wake

> up all morning. I also had my mag drink and a snack, just like over

> the weekend. Took my Klono and fell dead asleep at 10:30 and then

woke

> up at 1:45 with a full bladder, dehydrated, sweating, and stomach

> growling and full of air. WTH!?! Apparently there is no going

back.

> For the hell of it, before I ate and took more HC, I tested my

blood

> sugar (I had last eaten 4 hours before) and it was 112 so I'm

assuming

> that I was not hypoglycemic. I ate a piece of cheese, took 2.5mg of

> HC and, fell back to sleep pretty quickly afterwards untill 4AM

when I

> woke up sweating again, and the fell right back to sleep until my

> alarm went off at 7AM. I was totally in a fog trying to get ready

for

> and driving to work but I'm more or less normal now. I took 10mg of

> HC at 8AM and another 10mg at noon with lunch which was a little

late

> b/c I had already started feeling dizzy but that feeling has faded.

>

> I really don't what to think about how to dose the pred and HC

> together and I can see why Val isn't too eager to suggest it to

> people. Should I take it between 6 and 7PM in the hopes that it

will

> do its thing overnight, still take my 6:30PM and bed-time doses of

HC

> so that I don't wake up in the middle of the night needing cortisol,

> and then take less HC during the day to make up for it? If it's not

> hypoglycemia waking me up in the middle of the night can I still be

> low cortisol? Maybe it's too much cortisol but then why does the

> 2.5mg help me get back to sleep? I have no idea how to do this.

>

> >

> > If I move that dose of HC to bed-time that leaves a gap of 3:30

or so

> > to 10:30 with no HC. I don't think that I would make it.

> >

> > I guess that I'm going to do as my doc and Cherie suggested today

and

> > dial back the Armour to 2 grains (I hate to back out of even the

1/8

> > but I over did it and can't seem to get recovered, although,

despite

> > my sleep problems last night I felt better today than yesterday

and

> > only had to stress dose once) and leave the pred dose where it is

at

> > 8PM and go back to 1.25 - I would rather sleep and be a zombie

than

> > wake up hypogly again.

> >

>

February 7, 2008

" jasrich " wrote:

> I'm really not making it much longer than 3

> hours which is consistent with waking up the last three nights after

> anywhere from 3-5 hours severely needing HC. My snooze goes off

every 9 minutes

> (like most) and I was falling asleep in between which I rarely do so I

> probably would have slept more. I tend to believe that I

> should take it later rather than earlier, but I guess that there is

> only one way to find out. I took it at 8PM the last two nights and

> had about the same result. I'm leaning towards taking it at 9 or 9:30

> tonight. What do you think?

I guess you already made a decision for tonight to take it later, so

just report tomorrow what happens. Sorry I didn't get back to you

earlier, had company for dinner--kung hee fat choy! If you have

another miserable night, try it earlier, between 6 and 7.

I'm leaning towards the theory that it doesn't kick in till late for

you, because you say you're so groggy in the morning, and actually fall

asleep between snoozes. It's like the pred is suppressing your own

morning cortisol, which is what's supposed to rise and awaken you. So

by taking it later, you're pushing your natural rise to much later in

the day. Therefore, I'd recommend taking the pred earlier, but keeping

with HC minimal dosing (like 2.5 or 5 mg) to keep you functioning till

bedtime. I would take 2.5 at bedtime and hope that tides you till the

pred kicks in later.

Barb

February 7, 2008