Re: Need help interpreting tests

February 19, 2007

>

> I am a newish list member and have been reading old posts to catch up.

> I appreciate all the discussion and the knowledgeable input of so

> many listers. It is encouraging to me.

>

> I am following the Cutler protocol. DDI Hair test (done some months

> after supplemental and nutritional interventions by acupuncturist and

> after beginning Cutler recommended supplements) met counting rule #2.

> DDI hair test from 1999 (who would know that might be useful?) met

> counting rule #1, and #3. (All low presentation?) Had amalgams out

> beginning Sept. 2006, finishing in November 2006. I've been chelating

> ever since with DMSA on the four hour protocol with equal days of

> breaks in between. I started out slow at 12.5 mg. Then I added 50%

> more for a few rounds and now am on my third round of 25 mg. I have

> fallen into a five day round although I am thinking of reducing to

> four day rounds.

Sounds like you're getting up to speed and doing generally okay.

> I pretty much have been following my instincts and the way my body

> feels to dose on supplements etc. I have been on Cutler recommended

> supplements starting before I began amalgam removal in August 2006. I

> had lots of help from acupuncturist in helping with health issues and

> building my body up... liver, kidneys, Candida etc... before starting

> the whole process. I have had some pretty crazy mental symptoms with

> amalgam removal and was very sick debilitated during that phase. I

> used a IMAOT dentist with all the bells and whistles. Even so, I got

> very sick. Glad that is over.

>

> I have added a whole adrenal glandular plus isocort to my regimen. I

> think it helps but maybe not enough. I took Armour thyroid for years

> but quit about three or four years ago because it didn't feel right.

> Now I am spaced out and feel immobilized, unable to think or function

> much of the time. Sometimes I have panic, heart racing, trouble

> sleeping from 2 to 4 am or from 3 to 5 am., dizzy and floating head,

> depression. Added vinpocetine, gotu kola, forskolin, ginko. It seems

> to help me think better. I am still tweaking the dosages, by feel,

> not sure what I am doing.

A lot of this does sound adrenal. Did the 24 hour urine test

mentioned below include cortisol? I don't know how to interpret

a urine cortisol test (don't know if the lab's ref range is

reliable for this), but maybe someone here does. Or you can just

try some more adrenal support. I guess acupuncturists can't

prescribe HC - do you have an MD who would?

> I avoid sulfur foods. My diet is mostly meat and vegetables. Never

> drank coffee in my entire life. I quit wheat a while ago. Few carbs.

> Gave up herbal and green teas that I used to have occasionally. I have

> been remarkably faithful to the diet restrictions. I have fallen off

> the wagon a few times. I just pick myself up and start again. I do

> the best I can.

>

> I am trying to decide what to do about my adrenal/thyroid issues. My

> free T4 was 0.75 ng/dl. TSH was 5.96 uIU/ml. These measures were

> last year (2006) before beginning the mass quantities of supplements

> and amalgam removal. My TSH in 2004 was 3.68 IU/ml. No free T4 was

> done in 2004.

Your TSH alone strongly indicates a thyroid problem.

> There is absolutely a difference in my body's needs between chelation

> and non chelation times. For example, I crave more magnesium while

> chelating.

>

> Before I figured out a lot of stuff, I had an ND give me a push test

> with IV DMPS. That was early last summer and it surely caused a heap

> of problems. But it opened my eyes and I began looking for

> information about mercury toxicity which led me to the Cutler

> protocol. (Thank goodness!) Here is a list of the tests I have had:

> 24 hour urine toxic metals test, blood plasma element analysis -

> Erythrocyte, HORMEST - a 24 hour urine collection with measures of a

> bunch of hormones, CBC (20 different measures), Hepatic liver panel,

> Basic Metalbolic Panel, Free T4 and TSH (previously mentioned).

>

> Mainly I am looking for help in figuring out the adrenal/ thyroid

> issue. Should I try adding Armour thyroid to my adrenal glandular and

> isocort supplementation? I take 2 isocort pellets in the morning, 2

> at noon. I take 1 Thorne adrenal glandular capsule in the morning. I

> did the saliva test back in 1999. I haven't done it now as I am

> pretty low on funds after all the dental work and being unfit to work

> in a regular job. I have come to realize I am rather disabled by all

> of this.

How was your saliva test back then? I totally get the " coming to

realize " your situation. I think I am still trying to get my head

around mine.

> Finally, I need to say that I am doing so much better now after

> chelating for three months using the Cutler protocol than I was all of

> last year. I am driving again. My psychiatric symptoms are much

> improved. I am contemplating trying to add some ALA pretty soon. But

> I would like to get the adrenal/thyroid issue on more solid ground.

Yes, get the adrenal/thyroid thing taken care of.

For some people, ALA is more prone to cause psychiatric symptoms.

Start very low with it and be careful. Andy says ALA increases

plasma cysteine levels - and ultimately this is one sulfury thing

you can't avoid. Look into additional support for the psychiatric

issues to be prepared for this (meds, making family/friends aware,

writing yourself reminder notes about " what to do if " , that sort of

thing).

--

February 21, 2007

Thank you, , for responding to my questions. I have gleaned

more information from my past tests. In 1995, I had the saliva test

measuring Free Cortisol Values

7 to 8:00am 13-23 = Level 7 Depressed, Adrenal Failure

11-12:00pm 4-8 = Level 2 Depressed, Stress Adapted with a

divergence in response to ACTH.

4-5:00pm 3-8 = Level 3 Borderline, Maladaption Phase I.

11-11:59 pm 1-3 = Level 1 Normal, Stress adapted " hyper " response;

minimal changes.

It looks like I was pretty messed up then, doesn't it?

In Aug. 2006 I had a 24 hour urine collection for hormones.

Cortisol(F) = 113 ug/24 hrs. [Ref. range 25-115 ug/25 hrs.]

Cortisone(E) = 187 ug/24 hrs. [Ref. range 49-215 ug/24 hrs.]

I have no idea if any of these numbers are relevant being as it was a

24 hour collection of urine.

When you say ALA may exacerbate the psychiatric symptoms, it scares

me. I am having plenty of problems as it is just trying to hold it

together while taking DMSA.

Do you think I would benefit from a current saliva test such as Canary

Labs? I am not using the acupuncturist while I am chelating because

he does not support the Cutler protocol. I have an ND who does but

who has not given me any tests and only encourages me to dabble with

Isocort and whole glandulars. I think she realizes my funds are short

and is trying to help me save money. And she seems uncomfortable with

adding hormones, trying DMPS, and really hitting the adrenal/thyroid

issue head on. This is why I am asking for help. I am pretty much on

my own here. Also I am wondering if I can get the adrenal/thyroid

stuff figured out, will it help my mental state?

Thanks for any input you might have.

Yolkerry

> > I have added a whole adrenal glandular plus isocort to my regimen. I

> > think it helps but maybe not enough. I took Armour thyroid for years

> > but quit about three or four years ago because it didn't feel right.

> > Now I am spaced out and feel immobilized, unable to think or function

> > much of the time. Sometimes I have panic, heart racing, trouble

> > sleeping from 2 to 4 am or from 3 to 5 am., dizzy and floating head,

> > depression. Added vinpocetine, gotu kola, forskolin, ginko. It seems

> > to help me think better. I am still tweaking the dosages, by feel,

> > not sure what I am doing.

>

> A lot of this does sound adrenal. Did the 24 hour urine test

> mentioned below include cortisol? I don't know how to interpret

> a urine cortisol test (don't know if the lab's ref range is

> reliable for this), but maybe someone here does. Or you can just

> try some more adrenal support. I guess acupuncturists can't

> prescribe HC - do you have an MD who would?

>

> > I am trying to decide what to do about my adrenal/thyroid issues. My

> > free T4 was 0.75 ng/dl. TSH was 5.96 uIU/ml. These measures were

> > last year (2006) before beginning the mass quantities of supplements

> > and amalgam removal. My TSH in 2004 was 3.68 IU/ml. No free T4 was

> > done in 2004.

>

> Your TSH alone strongly indicates a thyroid problem.

>

> > There is absolutely a difference in my body's needs between chelation

> > and non chelation times. For example, I crave more magnesium while

> > chelating.

> >

> > Before I figured out a lot of stuff, I had an ND give me a push test

> > with IV DMPS. That was early last summer and it surely caused a heap

> > of problems. But it opened my eyes and I began looking for

> > information about mercury toxicity which led me to the Cutler

> > protocol. (Thank goodness!) Here is a list of the tests I have had:

> > 24 hour urine toxic metals test, blood plasma element analysis -

> > Erythrocyte, HORMEST - a 24 hour urine collection with measures of a

> > bunch of hormones, CBC (20 different measures), Hepatic liver panel,

> > Basic Metalbolic Panel, Free T4 and TSH (previously mentioned).

> >

> > Mainly I am looking for help in figuring out the adrenal/ thyroid

> > issue. Should I try adding Armour thyroid to my adrenal glandular and

> > isocort supplementation? I take 2 isocort pellets in the morning, 2

> > at noon. I take 1 Thorne adrenal glandular capsule in the morning. I

> > did the saliva test back in 1999. I haven't done it now as I am

> > pretty low on funds after all the dental work and being unfit to work

> > in a regular job. I have come to realize I am rather disabled by all

> > of this.

>

> How was your saliva test back then? I totally get the " coming to

> realize " your situation. I think I am still trying to get my head

> around mine.

>

> > Finally, I need to say that I am doing so much better now after

> > chelating for three months using the Cutler protocol than I was all of

> > last year. I am driving again. My psychiatric symptoms are much

> > improved. I am contemplating trying to add some ALA pretty soon. But

> > I would like to get the adrenal/thyroid issue on more solid ground.

>

> Yes, get the adrenal/thyroid thing taken care of.

>

> For some people, ALA is more prone to cause psychiatric symptoms.

> Start very low with it and be careful. Andy says ALA increases

> plasma cysteine levels - and ultimately this is one sulfury thing

> you can't avoid. Look into additional support for the psychiatric

> issues to be prepared for this (meds, making family/friends aware,

> writing yourself reminder notes about " what to do if " , that sort of

> thing).

>

> --

>

February 22, 2007

>

> Thank you, , for responding to my questions. I have gleaned

> more information from my past tests. In 1995, I had the saliva test

> measuring Free Cortisol Values

> 7 to 8:00am 13-23 = Level 7 Depressed, Adrenal Failure

> 11-12:00pm 4-8 = Level 2 Depressed, Stress Adapted with a

> divergence in response to ACTH.

> 4-5:00pm 3-8 = Level 3 Borderline, Maladaption Phase I.

> 11-11:59 pm 1-3 = Level 1 Normal, Stress adapted " hyper " response;

> minimal changes.

> It looks like I was pretty messed up then, doesn't it?

Yup, this is similar to where I was 1.5 years ago. I imagine

you felt pretty bad.

> In Aug. 2006 I had a 24 hour urine collection for hormones.

> Cortisol(F) = 113 ug/24 hrs. [Ref. range 25-115 ug/25 hrs.]

> Cortisone(E) = 187 ug/24 hrs. [Ref. range 49-215 ug/24 hrs.]

> I have no idea if any of these numbers are relevant being as it was a

> 24 hour collection of urine.

Well, obviously they look quite decent in terms of the ref ranges,

but I don't actually know how to interpret these in terms of

whether the ref ranges are useful and what is the difference

between cortisol and cortisone. Maybe someone else here does.

Or you can join one of these groups and ask:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/adrenalfatigue/

Evaluating symptoms will be helpful. Take a look at page 118-122

of Amalgam Illness. I think you did mention symptoms that sound

adrenal.

> When you say ALA may exacerbate the psychiatric symptoms, it scares

> me. I am having plenty of problems as it is just trying to hold it

> together while taking DMSA.

I don't mean to scare you, just trying to make you aware. Note

that I am speaking as someone who is sensitive to ALA and not to the

other chelators, so I am giving you my biased perspective.

Some people actually do better on ALA than DMSA or DMPS. It varies.

That's why you start with low doses of a chelator and stay at a

given dose for a number of rounds before increasing. You just have

to see how each one affects you.

> Do you think I would benefit from a current saliva test such as Canary

> Labs?

I would think about your symptoms in relation to what Andy describes

and/or look at other lists of symptoms and evaluate your situation.

Sounds like it might be a good idea just based on your really low

numbers several years ago.

I am not using the acupuncturist while I am chelating because

> he does not support the Cutler protocol.

I find acupuncture extremely helpful for adrenal issues. There

are acupuncturists who will treat you no matter what you are doing

for chelation (you could consider not even telling them what you

are doing, although you'll need to be careful about what you let

them do - for example, suction cups can stir up metals).

If you do get acupuncture, be really careful to stay warm while

you have needles in.

I have an ND who does but

> who has not given me any tests and only encourages me to dabble with

> Isocort and whole glandulars. I think she realizes my funds are short

> and is trying to help me save money. And she seems uncomfortable with

> adding hormones, trying DMPS, and really hitting the adrenal/thyroid

> issue head on. This is why I am asking for help. I am pretty much on

> my own here. Also I am wondering if I can get the adrenal/thyroid

> stuff figured out, will it help my mental state?

If you haven't read Andy's recent post about depression, anxiety,

etc, look for it in archives (2-3 days ago).

--

> Thanks for any input you might have.

>

> Yolkerry

February 22, 2007

,

I appreciate your input. Yes, I did read Andy's post on depression.

I just looked it up and read it again. I printed it out so I could

read it later too. Sometimes I find I have to read things over and

over to understand them anymore. Same goes for Andy's books.

I have had a particularly bad week. I was chelating with the same

dose I have been. But this time the ride has been rough. The top of

my head is completely unattached. I've " heard " people talking in my

house when none were there. I've been agitated and unable to focus on

accomplishing anything. I went to a conference and nearly lost it

when I couldn't understand the speakers. It was as if they were

speaking another language. I had a few hours when I was weepy for no

apparent reason. Today I had trouble talking and was shaky. Now I am

feeling quite apprehensive. What a roller coaster! I can rationalize

it and understand what is happening. I can even say to myself that I

must have knocked loose a whopping big chunk of mercury or lead. But

it doesn't really make it any easier. I stopped chelating last night

and hope that this wears off pretty soon. Even Alkaseltzer gold has

had no effect.

You are right about acupuncture being helpful for adrenals. I hadn't

even thought about that. So maybe I will spring for a visit or two to

my acupuncturist for a tune up.

I am wondering if my trouble this time is from adding selenium back

into my supplements. I had stopped it for a while and now I am

thinking I was doing just fine without it. Just this past week I

added it and beta carotene back. I usually have a strong sense about

stuff and whether or not I should put it in my body. My acupuncturist

has told me to trust my instincts on this because he says they are

really good. Out of the mountain of pills I gulp everyday, selenium

and the beta carotene are the only two I have feelings about when I

touch them. Do you know if other people have issues with selenium

that causes mental problems and foggy brain? What about beta

carotene? I'm glad I thought of this tonight because tomorrow I won't

take those things.

February 22, 2007