Re: DMPS vs DMSA gastro effects?

[Guest guest]

> for how long I can go on a round -- otherwise I actually feel a bit

better.

> I want to raise the dose and I'd like to go for longer than 4 days, but by

> that time the gas gets really bad and I just can't take it anymore.

>Maybe I should go to his office and fart a lot

> ...he may change his mind.

>

> Thanks,

> NJ

Hi NJ,

Thanks for that last line - it is very funny!

I have the same reaction to DMSA and it is the reason why I now only chelate

with ALA. I brought down my body burden of mercury a lot with DMSA, but

after more than a year of chelation with both, and when I could tolerate ALA

on its own, I was glad to wave the DMSA good bye. The sulfur smell was

intolerable!

What also happened while on the DMSA is that I had the feeling my gut lining

was being 'burnt' shortly after taking it. It mimicked the effects of

candida, and I don't believe it was the DMSA aggravating the candida (as it

can), as I've pretty much cured that issue. It is more like it irritates my

gut lining.

I do well on sulfur foods and that seems to help me tolerate ALA.

Yes, make the Dr come and visit you for day 4 and 5 of DMSA. He'll change

his mind after a few sulfur bombs :-)

Dean

[Guest guest]

>

> jaytee and all, I've been reading your praises of DMPS, and

wondering

> if you or anyone has noticed a difference between DMPS and DMSA on

your gut.

>

I only did about 4 rounds of DMSA at a time when I wasn't having any

gut problems. I have been taking DMPS continually for about 1.5 years

with 3 mo break. Can't really compare the two.

> I notice that after a couple days of DMSA, at just 12.5mg per 3.5

hours, I

> get gas building up. It gets worse and worse, and is now the

limiting factor

> for how long I can go on a round -- otherwise I actually feel a bit

better.

> I want to raise the dose and I'd like to go for longer than 4 days,

but by

> that time the gas gets really bad and I just can't take it anymore. It

> smells pretty sulfury, so I guess that's the problem? Same diet off DMSA

> doesn't cause this.

>

> Are there any antidotes for this?

>

This is my interpretation of what happened with me. It may or may not

be relevant in anyone else's case, or some people might not agree with me.

I was on a GFCF legume free sugar restricted diet for about 6 years

before I started chelation. That diet resolved all my gut problems

during that time. As I chelated with DMPS I gradually started to get

gas problems that were related to what I was eating but I couldn't

figure out exactly what foods contributed. After the colon infection

fiasco I went to the SCD and discovered that the gas was related to

illegal SCD foods, like too many disaccharides and starches. With the

adrenal problem I crave sugar and have to have some sort of quick

carbohydrate or I can have trouble with no sugar in my brain (leads to

poor cognition). Being able to take honey when I needed it on the SCD

resolved that.

My interpretation of what happened is that with chelation the mercury

that was going through my gut killed off lots of beneficial organisms

leaving niches open for opportunists to take over. Also, the mercury

burnt the cells lining the gut to some extent so that the enzymes that

should be breaking down disaccharides and starches weren't able to

function well. Maybe even the mercury destroyed those enzymes. So

the disacch and partially digested starches were going farther

downstream where they get digested anaerobically leading to gas

production. Because of all of this dysbiosis was progressively

getting worse and worse as I chelated and then when I had that

sigmoidoscopy some of the bad bacteria got into my body leading to the

infection and inflammation and swelling and all of that. The SCD

completely fixed all that up now. Now I can even cheat and eat rice

or sugar occasionally and I don't get any gas at all.

> If I could tell my doc that DMPS doesn't have this reaction, he may be

> willing to give it to me sooner. He plans to, but feels I'm in too

bad shape

> at the moment, and thinks DMSA is less stressful on my system. (I

know this

> is not really true, right?,

DMSA and DMPS are similar in toxicity. At the low doses that we are

using they really aren't that hard on us. It is the mercury that is

hard on us, and both DMSA and DMPS will move it. Personally, I like

DMPS because of the 8 h dosing a person can go for longer rounds so

gets less end of round redistribution (and tons of sleep).

but he's still thinking in terms of people on

> large doses, I guess). Maybe I should go to his office and fart a lot

> ...he may change his mind.

>

If you want to, try the SCD. It's worth it just to solve that

problem. Be sure to include the SCD yogurt everyday.

J

> Thanks,

> NJ

>

[Guest guest]

>

> If you want to, try the SCD. It's worth it just to solve that

> problem. Be sure to include the SCD yogurt everyday.

>

> J

>

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is SCD? I'm afraid special diets

are a frustrating proposition for me -- I'm already doing a lot to

control my diet, plus I am vegetarian, and with all the diet

restrictions various people suggest, i would be quite likely to starve

if i followed most of them. I stay away from sugar 99.9% of the time,

no alchohol or caffeine, and i have to give up most nuts and dried

fruits (which I love) because i am high in copper, and soy is no

longer allowed due to thyroid! Beans are a must -- i have eaten them

for many years with no problems. They are not any better or worse for

me on DMSA than anything else. I eat lots of plain organic yogurt from

a very good source, usually twice a day. I don't eat rice, quinoa is

my thing, i like it more and it's higher protein. I eat some cheese

and eggs, but i've heard plenty of people who tell me not to eat those

either! Then there's gluten...

So, if all my protein sources are being removed, there's no chance.

Sorry, i'm a bit frustrated by all this...

thanks,

NJ

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Dean, for the comiseration...

Did you keep to 3 or 4 day rounds all that time you used DMSA? If you

went longer, did you find the gas levelled out, or just kept getting

worse? I did notice that the one time I went 5 days, several days

AFTER the round i was getting something like that 'gut burning' you

describe, it was like nothing i had ever experienced, i would describe

it as'gut nausea'. I didn't connect it with the DMSA -- maybe it was

mercury dumping, considering it was after the round?

thanks

NJ

>

> > for how long I can go on a round -- otherwise I actually feel a bit

> better.

> > I want to raise the dose and I'd like to go for longer than 4

days, but by

> > that time the gas gets really bad and I just can't take it anymore.

>

> >Maybe I should go to his office and fart a lot

> > ...he may change his mind.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > NJ

>

> Hi NJ,

>

> Thanks for that last line - it is very funny!

> I have the same reaction to DMSA and it is the reason why I now only

chelate

> with ALA. I brought down my body burden of mercury a lot with DMSA, but

> after more than a year of chelation with both, and when I could

tolerate ALA

> on its own, I was glad to wave the DMSA good bye. The sulfur smell was

> intolerable!

>

> What also happened while on the DMSA is that I had the feeling my

gut lining

> was being 'burnt' shortly after taking it. It mimicked the effects of

> candida, and I don't believe it was the DMSA aggravating the candida

(as it

> can), as I've pretty much cured that issue. It is more like it

irritates my

> gut lining.

>

> I do well on sulfur foods and that seems to help me tolerate ALA.

>

> Yes, make the Dr come and visit you for day 4 and 5 of DMSA. He'll

change

> his mind after a few sulfur bombs :-)

> Dean

>

[Guest guest]

NJ - the problems you're experiencing sound similar to things I was

going through this spring. I believe it was slowly growing worse as

time passed on rounds until it suddenly was really taking over and I

had to take a break from chelation. It also seems I'd been passing

some gallstones because I'm digesting fats a whole lot better than I

had been. I sensed ALA was loosening a lot of things up in my liver.

It's about a month now since I stopped, and I've been doing other

types of detox in the interim to help bowels, kidneys & liver.

While it's very possible one or both of the chelators causes

irritation, I think I get vulnerable to some type of bacterial

infection, and just the return of mercury coming through my system

could influence that. I had similar problems for many years on and

off while I was growing increasingly mercury toxic, too.

At this point, I expect that I'll be chelating for several months,

will again run into digestive problems that will need attention, and

will be back on chelation again as a pattern until everything starts

to subside.

I do not believe everything is caused by candida infection, although

I am quite vulnerable to it. I simply don't feed it well enough &

have been taking maintenance anti-candida measures for years now. I

take both arginine & lysine per the protocol to help my immune

function, but recently lots of tumeric, fennel, etc., were what

helped in getting my system back in order. Since they are

specifically effective with bacterial strains of E coli, salmonella,

etc., it might be worthwhile to explore those possibilities.

Mercury really messes with digestion and the immune system, and I

realize I'll have to deal with the consequences of running the metal

through my system if I want to recover some hormone function.

Hope things ease up soon for you,

Joanne

[Guest guest]

> Did you keep to 3 or 4 day rounds all that time you used DMSA? If you

> went longer, did you find the gas levelled out, or just kept getting

> worse? I did notice that the one time I went 5 days, several days

> AFTER the round i was getting something like that 'gut burning' you

> describe, it was like nothing i had ever experienced, i would describe

> it as'gut nausea'. I didn't connect it with the DMSA -- maybe it was

> mercury dumping, considering it was after the round?

Hi NJ,

No, I extended many rounds past 4 days. But it seems the longer I chelated

in terms of overall process the worse it got. What happened mostly is that

after the ALCAT food allergy test my health really shifted to a new level

near instantly. At the same time I started a product with deglyc. licorice

and glutamine to heal the gut lining. I felt much better, so much so that I

dropped most supplements and didn't chelate for about 3 weeks (which was

unusual, because I used to dip after a few days of stopping the round and

would feel better when I started).

When I went back to the chelation and started with DMSA all that gas and

bloating started along with the burning of the gut lining. It was the exact

same feeling (without the gas) that I had when I 'thought' I was dealing

with candida. It got worse with each day and I got more and more tired. So

by day 4 I stopped the DMSA and have since only chelated with ALA since

which gives me no such problems.

I tried one more time with DMSA and the same thing. So I've decided a year

and a bit on that stuff was enough - I'm seeing the rest of chelation out

with ALA only. (I have never had DMPS and can't get it here).

Dean

[Guest guest]

> Did you keep to 3 or 4 day rounds all that time you used DMSA? If you

> went longer, did you find the gas levelled out, or just kept getting

> worse? I did notice that the one time I went 5 days, several days

> AFTER the round i was getting something like that 'gut burning' you

> describe, it was like nothing i had ever experienced, i would describe

> it as'gut nausea'. I didn't connect it with the DMSA -- maybe it was

> mercury dumping, considering it was after the round?

Hi NJ,

No, I extended many rounds past 4 days. But it seems the longer I chelated

in terms of overall process the worse it got. What happened mostly is that

after the ALCAT food allergy test my health really shifted to a new level

near instantly. At the same time I started a product with deglyc. licorice

and glutamine to heal the gut lining. I felt much better, so much so that I

dropped most supplements and didn't chelate for about 3 weeks (which was

unusual, because I used to dip after a few days of stopping the round and

would feel better when I started).

When I went back to the chelation and started with DMSA all that gas and

bloating started along with the burning of the gut lining. It was the exact

same feeling (without the gas) that I had when I 'thought' I was dealing

with candida. It got worse with each day and I got more and more tired. So

by day 4 I stopped the DMSA and have since only chelated with ALA since

which gives me no such problems.

I tried one more time with DMSA and the same thing. So I've decided a year

and a bit on that stuff was enough - I'm seeing the rest of chelation out

with ALA only. (I have never had DMPS and can't get it here).

Dean

[Guest guest]

> Did you keep to 3 or 4 day rounds all that time you used DMSA? If you

> went longer, did you find the gas levelled out, or just kept getting

> worse? I did notice that the one time I went 5 days, several days

> AFTER the round i was getting something like that 'gut burning' you

> describe, it was like nothing i had ever experienced, i would describe

> it as'gut nausea'. I didn't connect it with the DMSA -- maybe it was

> mercury dumping, considering it was after the round?

Hi NJ,

No, I extended many rounds past 4 days. But it seems the longer I chelated

in terms of overall process the worse it got. What happened mostly is that

after the ALCAT food allergy test my health really shifted to a new level

near instantly. At the same time I started a product with deglyc. licorice

and glutamine to heal the gut lining. I felt much better, so much so that I

dropped most supplements and didn't chelate for about 3 weeks (which was

unusual, because I used to dip after a few days of stopping the round and

would feel better when I started).

When I went back to the chelation and started with DMSA all that gas and

bloating started along with the burning of the gut lining. It was the exact

same feeling (without the gas) that I had when I 'thought' I was dealing

with candida. It got worse with each day and I got more and more tired. So

by day 4 I stopped the DMSA and have since only chelated with ALA since

which gives me no such problems.

I tried one more time with DMSA and the same thing. So I've decided a year

and a bit on that stuff was enough - I'm seeing the rest of chelation out

with ALA only. (I have never had DMPS and can't get it here).

Dean