ESTRACE vs PREMARIN *LONG DISCOURSE* BY ME

[Guest guest]

DeeTroll wrote: HI all... I really apologize and please forgive me but someone asked about the differences between Estrace and Premarin... I deleted the post and can't remember who it was. DUH....sob sob.. Anyway this was an ongoin discussion between myself and a physician who used to be on the group as he thought Premarin was Estradiol too and basically the same, and this was my response back at the time. Basically NO WAY, LOL I hope it's what you were looking for hon but fair warning it is long. Dee~ ========================================= HI all, Sorry but I have to disagree back Dr.X *smile* about the ingredients of Premarin. Hormones are something I've been studying and researching as long (prob. 15 yrs or more) as the LS and V pain and of course don't have the education you do and I highly respect you and I definitely don't mean any offense but just offering 'my' thoughts here on it. OH OH I feel my soapbox coming out, *chuckle* .... probably will be a long one, and here I was ready to just hit the sack. Might be a bit boring too to most. Sorry. *smile* but I hope it enlightens some. You said Premarin's a natural mixture of mammalian estrogens..... and mammalian simply means an animal (including us) that

nurses it's young... which of course is derived from the urine of the pregnant female horses they use (not humans) ... but it's natural to horses and not to us. Yes the Estrace is made from Yams and soybeans and micronized (so is my testosterone) but it's final result IS bio-identical to the estrogen we produce, and fits those E. receptors exactly the same as our own identical estradiol. Premarin doesn't have much of the Estradiol 17b ..at all. So indeed, I'm wondering how one can say it's ''much more'' 'natural' (more on those terms later) than Estrace when Premarins main ingredients are Estrone and Equillin which produces high levels of equine estrogens native to horses in the human body. When it's the Estradiol we lose as we age and produce all our lives naturally. It's the Estradiol that's considered the Mother Hormone

and is what makes us females, when we lose that, that's what should be replaced in my opinion not some horses estrogen. As we go into menopause we 'naturally' have higher levels of Estrone (stored in fat by the way *think about breast tissue) and far less Estradiol) Estradiol is involved with our mood, thyroid function, skin elasticity which decreases and causes thin skin and wrinkles as we age as well as atrophic vaginitis, it's involved with our bones, and even cognition. Estradiol has a direct affect on the function of the reproductive system, the nervous system, the cardiovascular system and the skeletal system. Blood sugar levels, skin, and other tissues and functions are also significantly influenced by estradiol, even our immune system. It's involved in the urinary tract, the libido, the thyroid, the bladder, the

breast, blood sugar and insulin levels as well as memory, and even can lower cholesterol. (and by the way Premarin can increase the bad cholesterol as well) Estradiol one of our best friends used correctly for our overall well being and zest. Also I'd like to mention the fact that it may take up to 3 months for Premarin to be eliminated from the body after stopping it, and only 48 hrs or less for Estrace to be eliminated. The Premarin is simply not identical to what our ovaries produce, whereas the Estrace is bio-identical, completely indistinguishable from our own. I do understand the conversion of all of them, and how they interact, and I know that Estrone is a precursor to Estradiol as well as understand why so many get confused with the term 'synthetic' vs. 'natural' since both are manufactured and

processed but technically both are considered 'natural' since they're from 'natural' sources (one plant, one animal) *Premarin came out in later years to add the word 'natural' to their promotions* hoping to persuade the public that theirs is natural as well* but it's a mimic and a deceptive way to fool the general public as general acceptance (among laymen) is to consider the Estrace more 'natural' because it IS bio-identical. The word 'synthesized'..which you said is used with Estrace simply means putting together, to make something, or the process & produced by synthesis..but today has come to mean artificial. But something synthetic can also be 'natural', while something 'natural' may be foreign (not native to) the human body. Same way today they make 'synthetic' insulin that is bio-identical to humans, whereas with the

animal' 'natural' ones previously they found many had an allergic reaction or resistance. Though they were 'natural' they were not native to the human body. The key here is not whether a compound is 'natural' to plants or animals but is the compound 'natural' to the human body and identical to compounds made by the human body so that it will fit properly as a 'key' into the body's receptor sites. Be careful of being misled by clever wording in advertising, the manufacturers would like you to 'think' they are all the same but they're not. AT ALL. There is a difference as to how they perform in the human body, the E receptors for one thing are different, (close fit but not identical) Like a 'key' getting stuck in a lock, and then it prevents the 'human' estradiol key from fitting into that receptor. (Two types of E receptors, one inside

the nucleus of cells, and the other on the membrane surface of cells.) .... (a side note, but progestins, progesterone as well as soy and yeast also can block those E receptors) Equine estrogens (Premarin) are 3 times more potent in stimulating the liver production of 'renin substrate'... a big factor that causes increased blood pressure for one thing. Premarin produces 2/3's of the total circulating estrogens as Equilin and only 1/3rd of the total estrogen is Estradiol or Estrone. The Equillin has greater than normal actions on the vaginal lining and less than normal effects on the brain, the equine estrogens also have a much 'stronger' affinity for the breasts as well. As an example of the molecular structure comparision, both have 4 connecting rings as the basic shape of the molecule, but equilin (the primary horse estrogen and not

estradiol) has some important differences in the makeup of one of the rings, which makes it a different 'key' which means it's effects can be different than that of the native human estrogen. Because this equilin metabolite is not a normal one for the human body to process, the enzymes needed to break it down aren't readily in place either, so excretion takes much longer. (why it may take 3 mos to be eliminated) It may also be a reason why some women on Premarin still have estrogen loss, or no improvements in mood or other symptoms, etc.. and instead some ignorant physicians (present company excluded) LOL will unfortunately increase the Premarin having no idea of what's happening and making things even worse by generally assuming estrogen is estrogen. *Sigh* The keys are not opening the receptors quite enough that

a woman may need, and often instead, the dosage of Premarin is increased meaning even 'more' equilin (not natural to us) for the body to process. Often switching a woman from Premarin to Estrace will impove mood changes, sleep patterns, energy, clarity of thinking and short term memory as well, when she switches. I for one could not imagine anyone not wanting the exact same estrogen she's produced all her life.. but that's IF her physician is aware of it. And all because of a few changes in one ring, when all that's needed to activate the human body's estrogen receptors is the Estradiol. The high Equilin content in Premarin places an unusal demand on the body. It really is of crucial importance that 'fit' of those receptors. Even the central and the peripheral nervous system as well as the brain contains receptor sites sensitive to

17b Estradiol. (let alone the vulva & vagina) In certain regions of the brain (eg, frontal cortex), ER-beta predominates over ER-alpha. In the cerebellum, 'only' ER-beta is expressed. Because ERs are abundant throughout the body, the menopausal decline of Estradiol potentially affects virtually all organ systems. So logically it seems to me that's what 'I' want to replace anyway. Did you see the list of ingredients comparing them that I'd sent before? Estrace is 100% natural bio-idential 17b Estradiol... where as the Premarin contained less than 0.5% and the biggest % of Estrone, and then the horse estrogen Equillin, not Estradiol. (see more below) PREMARIN INGREDIENTS: ESTRONE................... 49.9% EQUILLIN...................... 22.6% 17 alpha hydroequillin ..... 13.5 % Delta 6, 9 dehydroestrone.. 3.7% 17 *alpha* estradiol.......... 3.6% Equilinin............................ 2.5% 17 beta dihydroequillinin........... 1.4% 17 alpha dihydroequillinin ........... 1.4% 17 beta Estradiol......................0.5% ( * least amt. of Estradiol) Wyeth-Ayerst researchers claim that there are more than 100 steroids in Premarin. The potential effects of the other 91-plus waste equine steroids that

are not considered "active" are unknown. By the way anytime you see the word equilin in any of those words... that is from Equis... meaning horse... _____________________________________________ HERE ARE ESTRACE'S INGREDIENTS................. 17 b ESTRADIOL.........................(100%) in 0.1 mg. per gram in the tube. Inactive or inert Base ingredients: It's in a nonliquefying base containing purified water, propylene glycol, stearyl alcohol,

white ceresin wax, glyceryl monostearate, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, 2208 4000 cps, sodium lauryl sulfate, methylparaben, edetate disodium and tertiary-butylhydroquinon. Sorry Doc but you'll never convince me they're the same. *smile* no offense meant, but just too much diverse information out there to convince me they are. Unfortunately as I mentioned earlier it's just that Premarin's got the deep pockets to spend on advertising and is the one that's most well known. As well as always being so willing to

'donate' their product (said facitiously) for the majority of those studies, such as the HERS, the PEPI, the Nurses study, etc. even this last study by the WHI that was withdrawn...were 'all' done with Premarin... *sigh* Worse was the last one using PREMPRO (Premarin & Provera. What a disaster but mainly because of the added Provera, which gripes me to no end. (to say the least) when so many previous studies showed the exact same results. Am I furious? you betcha. All Estrogens are simply not the same yet unfortunately 'all' estrogens got the bad name and have to add all those same warnings, what a shame indeed. *sigh* Whew.... My two cents worth on that ...*smile* and I'm sticking with it. ; ) Sorry

for the length everyone.. I was on a roll there. Dee~ PS and just to add that is all my opinion and what "I" know about it so for what it's worth is up to the individual. ----- Original Message ----- Sorry to disagree:Premarin is a mixture of NATURAL- chemically unaltered -mammalian estrogens. Estrace is SYNTHESIZED from plants. The main

component of both is 17beta eatrodiol Dr. X