Re: Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

[Guest guest]

Wonder if they saw gray matter and did not check for a pulse? Be interesting to

see the security video if it exists.

And screwdriver or knife if you attack with it it is deadly, so I see no point

to that issue even being brought up by the reporter.

>

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wonder if they saw gray matter and did not check for a pulse? Be interesting to

see the security video if it exists.

And screwdriver or knife if you attack with it it is deadly, so I see no point

to that issue even being brought up by the reporter.

>

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wonder if they saw gray matter and did not check for a pulse? Be interesting to

see the security video if it exists.

And screwdriver or knife if you attack with it it is deadly, so I see no point

to that issue even being brought up by the reporter.

>

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Is it really that hard to check?

Hatfield

Subject: Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

To: " texasems-l " texasems-l Paramedicine " Paramedicine >

Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 6:03 PM

 

Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

Monday , August 03, 2009

Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before officers

noticed he was still alive.

Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles was shot

by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

Monday.

The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

temporarily reassigned.

[Guest guest]

Is it really that hard to check?

Hatfield

Subject: Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

To: " texasems-l " texasems-l Paramedicine " Paramedicine >

Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 6:03 PM

 

Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

Monday , August 03, 2009

Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before officers

noticed he was still alive.

Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles was shot

by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

Monday.

The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

temporarily reassigned.

[Guest guest]

I, too, read this article. My question: should they not have AT THE LEAST placed

this guy on a cardiac monitor? Ok, head injury-I got that--BUT-- just to CYA? It

wouldn't have hurt. There was NO decapitation. I would have placed him on the

cardiac monitor and then went on from there.

 

________________________________

To: " texasems-l " texasems-l@...Paramedicine " Paramedicine >

Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 6:03:19 PM

Subject: Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

 

Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

Monday , August 03, 2009

Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before officers

noticed he was still alive.

Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles was shot

by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

Monday.

The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

temporarily reassigned.

[Guest guest]

I, too, read this article. My question: should they not have AT THE LEAST placed

this guy on a cardiac monitor? Ok, head injury-I got that--BUT-- just to CYA? It

wouldn't have hurt. There was NO decapitation. I would have placed him on the

cardiac monitor and then went on from there.

 

________________________________

To: " texasems-l " texasems-l@...Paramedicine " Paramedicine >

Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 6:03:19 PM

Subject: Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

 

Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

Monday , August 03, 2009

Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before officers

noticed he was still alive.

Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles was shot

by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

Monday.

The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

temporarily reassigned.

[Guest guest]

And if the monitor showed asystole??? Isn't that a " workable " rhythm with an

ACLS algorithm?

-Wes Ogilvie

Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

?

Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

Monday , August 03, 2009

Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before officers

noticed he was still alive.

Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles was shot

by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

Monday.

The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

temporarily reassigned.

[Guest guest]

And if the monitor showed asystole??? Isn't that a " workable " rhythm with an

ACLS algorithm?

-Wes Ogilvie

Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

?

Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

Monday , August 03, 2009

Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before officers

noticed he was still alive.

Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles was shot

by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

Monday.

The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

temporarily reassigned.

[Guest guest]

And if the monitor showed asystole??? Isn't that a " workable " rhythm with an

ACLS algorithm?

-Wes Ogilvie

Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

?

Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

Monday , August 03, 2009

Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before officers

noticed he was still alive.

Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles was shot

by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

Monday.

The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

temporarily reassigned.

[Guest guest]

Perhaps the more accurate observation would be that dumbassery is as

prevalent in EMS as any profession, it just gets more coverage in the media.

Bledsoe wrote:

>

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before

> officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles

> was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Perhaps the more accurate observation would be that dumbassery is as

prevalent in EMS as any profession, it just gets more coverage in the media.

Bledsoe wrote:

>

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before

> officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles

> was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Perhaps the more accurate observation would be that dumbassery is as

prevalent in EMS as any profession, it just gets more coverage in the media.

Bledsoe wrote:

>

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before

> officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles

> was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, never leave a dead pt without running a strip...and a few other signs.

BUT, I notice this says EMT's vs Paramedics ....so perhaps they did not have a

monitor.

________________________________

From: texasems-l texasems-l >

To: texasems-l texasems-l >

Sent: Mon Aug 03 20:47:55 2009

Subject: Re: Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

I, too, read this article. My question: should they not have AT THE LEAST placed

this guy on a cardiac monitor? Ok, head injury-I got that--BUT-- just to CYA? It

wouldn't have hurt. There was NO decapitation. I would have placed him on the

cardiac monitor and then went on from there.

________________________________

From: Bledsoe bbledsoe@... >

To: " texasems-l "

texasems-l@... >;

" Paramedicine "

Paramedicine >

Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 6:03:19 PM

Subject: Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

Monday , August 03, 2009

Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before officers

noticed he was still alive.

Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles was shot

by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

Monday.

The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

temporarily reassigned.

[Guest guest]

I agree, never leave a dead pt without running a strip...and a few other signs.

BUT, I notice this says EMT's vs Paramedics ....so perhaps they did not have a

monitor.

________________________________

From: texasems-l texasems-l >

To: texasems-l texasems-l >

Sent: Mon Aug 03 20:47:55 2009

Subject: Re: Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

I, too, read this article. My question: should they not have AT THE LEAST placed

this guy on a cardiac monitor? Ok, head injury-I got that--BUT-- just to CYA? It

wouldn't have hurt. There was NO decapitation. I would have placed him on the

cardiac monitor and then went on from there.

________________________________

From: Bledsoe bbledsoe@... >

To: " texasems-l "

texasems-l@... >;

" Paramedicine "

Paramedicine >

Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 6:03:19 PM

Subject: Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

Monday , August 03, 2009

Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before officers

noticed he was still alive.

Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles was shot

by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

Monday.

The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

temporarily reassigned.

[Guest guest]

Not enough info to make a judgment call here. Was protocol followed?

Did he injuries that appeared incompatible with life? Were they

actually EMTs or paramedics with a cardiac monitored? It doesn't say

so it's hard to judge at this point.

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was sent from my iPhone!

> And if the monitor showed asystole??? Isn't that a " workable " rhythm

> with an ACLS algorithm?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie

>

> Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

>

> ?

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a

> convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before

> officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles

> was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver

> early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene

> and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says

> the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the

> scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical

> condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not enough info to make a judgment call here. Was protocol followed?

Did he injuries that appeared incompatible with life? Were they

actually EMTs or paramedics with a cardiac monitored? It doesn't say

so it's hard to judge at this point.

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was sent from my iPhone!

> And if the monitor showed asystole??? Isn't that a " workable " rhythm

> with an ACLS algorithm?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie

>

> Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

>

> ?

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a

> convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before

> officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles

> was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver

> early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene

> and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says

> the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the

> scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical

> condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not enough info to make a judgment call here. Was protocol followed?

Did he injuries that appeared incompatible with life? Were they

actually EMTs or paramedics with a cardiac monitored? It doesn't say

so it's hard to judge at this point.

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was sent from my iPhone!

> And if the monitor showed asystole??? Isn't that a " workable " rhythm

> with an ACLS algorithm?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie

>

> Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

>

> ?

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a

> convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before

> officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles

> was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver

> early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene

> and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says

> the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the

> scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical

> condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

[Guest guest]

One of the very first calls I ran as a medic student was a " presumption

of death " call for a shooting victim. Cops had the scene taped off, and

lifted up the tape and told me, " Go hook up your machine, kid, and run a

strip. Coroner oughta be here in a few minutes. " The guy had been shot

in an argument in a pickup basketball game, and had one neat, .32

caliber hole in his forehead. Lying there spread-eagled on the asphalt,

eyes staring straight up at the sky, unblinking.

As I was attaching the leads, I asked, to nobody in particular, " So what

happened? "

Imagine everyone's surprise when the victim blinked both his eyes and

said, " Muhfucka shot me, dude. "

Several soiled pairs of shorts resulted from that call.

Medicine Man wrote:

>

>

> I, too, read this article. My question: should they not have AT THE

> LEAST placed this guy on a cardiac monitor? Ok, head injury-I got

> that--BUT-- just to CYA? It wouldn't have hurt. There was NO

> decapitation. I would have placed him on the cardiac monitor and then

> went on from there.

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Bledsoe bbledsoe@...

> >

> To: " texasems-l "

> texasems-l@... >;

> " Paramedicine "

> Paramedicine >

> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 6:03:19 PM

> Subject: Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

>

>

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before

> officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles

> was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

[Guest guest]

One of the very first calls I ran as a medic student was a " presumption

of death " call for a shooting victim. Cops had the scene taped off, and

lifted up the tape and told me, " Go hook up your machine, kid, and run a

strip. Coroner oughta be here in a few minutes. " The guy had been shot

in an argument in a pickup basketball game, and had one neat, .32

caliber hole in his forehead. Lying there spread-eagled on the asphalt,

eyes staring straight up at the sky, unblinking.

As I was attaching the leads, I asked, to nobody in particular, " So what

happened? "

Imagine everyone's surprise when the victim blinked both his eyes and

said, " Muhfucka shot me, dude. "

Several soiled pairs of shorts resulted from that call.

Medicine Man wrote:

>

>

> I, too, read this article. My question: should they not have AT THE

> LEAST placed this guy on a cardiac monitor? Ok, head injury-I got

> that--BUT-- just to CYA? It wouldn't have hurt. There was NO

> decapitation. I would have placed him on the cardiac monitor and then

> went on from there.

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Bledsoe bbledsoe@...

> >

> To: " texasems-l "

> texasems-l@... >;

> " Paramedicine "

> Paramedicine >

> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 6:03:19 PM

> Subject: Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

>

>

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before

> officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles

> was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not enough to make a judgement call?

 

here are the facts.

 

1) The dude was shot

 

2) the EMTS said he was dead

 

3) He wasnt

 

Unless he spontaneously started twitching/breathing or got a spontaneous

heartbeat AFTER the EMT's said he was dead. then he was NEVER dead.

 

What else do you need to know?

Hatfield

> And if the monitor showed asystole??? Isn't that a " workable " rhythm

> with an ACLS algorithm?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie

>

> Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

>

> ?

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a

> convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before

> officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles

> was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver

> early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene

> and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says

> the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the

> scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical

> condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

[Guest guest]

LOL! I love that story, but it's a lot better when you tell it in person over a

few beers....

Hatfied

>

>

> I, too, read this article. My question: should they not have AT THE

> LEAST placed this guy on a cardiac monitor? Ok, head injury-I got

> that--BUT-- just to CYA? It wouldn't have hurt. There was NO

> decapitation. I would have placed him on the cardiac monitor and then

> went on from there.

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> From: Bledsoe

>

> To: " texasems-l@yahoogro ups.com "

> >;

> " Paramedicine@ yahoogroups. com "

> >

> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 6:03:19 PM

> Subject: Diagnosis of Death Remains Elusive in EMS

>

>

> Baltimore EMTs 'Reassigned' After Mistakenly Declaring Man Dead

>

> Monday , August 03, 2009

>

> Baltimore police say a burglary suspect laid on the floor of a convenience

> store for about a half-hour with a gunshot wound to the head before

> officers

> noticed he was still alive.

>

> Police spokesman Guglielmi says 51-year-old Quarles

> was shot

> by an officer after he lunged at the officer with a long screwdriver early

> Saturday. The officer initially thought Quarles was wielding a knife.

>

> Guglielmi says emergency medical technicians responded to the scene and

> pronounced Quarles dead, then left. About 30 minutes later, he says the

> officers noticed Quarles moving. The EMTs were recalled to the scene, and

> Quarles was taken to a trauma center. He remained in critical condition on

> Monday.

>

> The city's fire department is investigating the EMTs, who have been

> temporarily reassigned.

>

>

[Guest guest]

We had a similar thing in County in April:

Two County firefighters under investigation

They thought the victim was dead, but they were wrong. Now two County

firefighters are under investigation.

That victim tried to commit suicide and when fire fighters arrived on scene

he was still alive. But instead of helping him, fire crews are accused of

sending the ambulance away.

The County Fire Department confirmed two of their firefighters, a

paramedic and an EMT are not allowed to respond to any medical calls pending

a review.

A source tells Action News its because they said a man was dead and called

off paramedics.

It happened Thursday in a mobile home park off East Twain.

A man shoots himself in the head in his own backyard and neighbors called

911.

A Medic West paramedic team and a County Fire team arrive on scene.

County Fire takes the lead.

" They didn't move his body. They put a cover over his face. And you have

police all around and medics and firemen and trucks and ambulances and

nobody's taking anybody anywhere, " a neighbor says.

This neighbor didn't want to give his name but he says the man was left on

the ground for about a half hour, moving and breathing.

" His mouth was going, not fast, but it was going, " he says.

A source tells Action News a Medic West paramedic told the County fire

fighters the man had a pulse and was still breathing.

But still the fire fighter canceled their call, sent them away, and called

the coroner; assuming the man was dead.

But according to neighbors it wasn't long after the coroner arrived that

more ambulances were called back out.

And this time supervisors and police came with them.

The man was still alive.

" Its inconceivable to me they couldn't see that, " his neighbor says.

According to the victim's son, the man survived two more days before they

ended life support Saturday afternoon.

He told Action News he didn't know the details, but wasn't going to blame

anyone for his father's decision.

His father recently found out he had a terminal illness.

Stay Tuned to Action News as we continue to follow this developing story.

[Guest guest]

We had a similar thing in County in April:

Two County firefighters under investigation

They thought the victim was dead, but they were wrong. Now two County

firefighters are under investigation.

That victim tried to commit suicide and when fire fighters arrived on scene

he was still alive. But instead of helping him, fire crews are accused of

sending the ambulance away.

The County Fire Department confirmed two of their firefighters, a

paramedic and an EMT are not allowed to respond to any medical calls pending

a review.

A source tells Action News its because they said a man was dead and called

off paramedics.

It happened Thursday in a mobile home park off East Twain.

A man shoots himself in the head in his own backyard and neighbors called

911.

A Medic West paramedic team and a County Fire team arrive on scene.

County Fire takes the lead.

" They didn't move his body. They put a cover over his face. And you have

police all around and medics and firemen and trucks and ambulances and

nobody's taking anybody anywhere, " a neighbor says.

This neighbor didn't want to give his name but he says the man was left on

the ground for about a half hour, moving and breathing.

" His mouth was going, not fast, but it was going, " he says.

A source tells Action News a Medic West paramedic told the County fire

fighters the man had a pulse and was still breathing.

But still the fire fighter canceled their call, sent them away, and called

the coroner; assuming the man was dead.

But according to neighbors it wasn't long after the coroner arrived that

more ambulances were called back out.

And this time supervisors and police came with them.

The man was still alive.

" Its inconceivable to me they couldn't see that, " his neighbor says.

According to the victim's son, the man survived two more days before they

ended life support Saturday afternoon.

He told Action News he didn't know the details, but wasn't going to blame

anyone for his father's decision.

His father recently found out he had a terminal illness.

Stay Tuned to Action News as we continue to follow this developing story.

[Guest guest]

We had a similar thing in County in April:

Two County firefighters under investigation

They thought the victim was dead, but they were wrong. Now two County

firefighters are under investigation.

That victim tried to commit suicide and when fire fighters arrived on scene

he was still alive. But instead of helping him, fire crews are accused of

sending the ambulance away.

The County Fire Department confirmed two of their firefighters, a

paramedic and an EMT are not allowed to respond to any medical calls pending

a review.

A source tells Action News its because they said a man was dead and called

off paramedics.

It happened Thursday in a mobile home park off East Twain.

A man shoots himself in the head in his own backyard and neighbors called

911.

A Medic West paramedic team and a County Fire team arrive on scene.

County Fire takes the lead.

" They didn't move his body. They put a cover over his face. And you have

police all around and medics and firemen and trucks and ambulances and

nobody's taking anybody anywhere, " a neighbor says.

This neighbor didn't want to give his name but he says the man was left on

the ground for about a half hour, moving and breathing.

" His mouth was going, not fast, but it was going, " he says.

A source tells Action News a Medic West paramedic told the County fire

fighters the man had a pulse and was still breathing.

But still the fire fighter canceled their call, sent them away, and called

the coroner; assuming the man was dead.

But according to neighbors it wasn't long after the coroner arrived that

more ambulances were called back out.

And this time supervisors and police came with them.

The man was still alive.

" Its inconceivable to me they couldn't see that, " his neighbor says.

According to the victim's son, the man survived two more days before they

ended life support Saturday afternoon.

He told Action News he didn't know the details, but wasn't going to blame

anyone for his father's decision.

His father recently found out he had a terminal illness.

Stay Tuned to Action News as we continue to follow this developing story.