Re: Extremely high doses of chromium and molybdenum and still can't cure the cop

[Guest guest]

>

> 1400 mcg or molybdenum and 3000 mcg of chromium + bile supplements

> (lecithin, coffee), and I still can't cure the copper toxicity.

> Chelated chromium is effective in lowering copper for those who

> haven't tried it (stay away from chromium picolinate), it also get rid

> of a lot of immaflamation problems associated with copper (atleast in

> my experience and according to my sources on chromium).

3000 mcg of chromium is way beyond the level that Andy recommends

(which I believe is 200 mcg with meals or up to 1000 mcg per day).

Both chromium and molybdenum can have toxic effects at high levels

(according to Andy's Hair Test Interpretation book). I doubt you

are toxic in molybenum since high copper increases molybdenum

clearance. I suppose it's possible, but I think you would have

other symptoms.

I would be concerned about all that chromium you are taking - Andy

says chromium toxicity causes nonspecific symptoms like weight loss,

fatigue and malaise. It can also harm the liver, kidneys, reduce

platelet count, and cause anemia.

I'm sure I have read other sources suggesting that chromium can

be toxic at high levels, but I don't recall sources off-hand.

Are you taking phosphatidylcholine, glycine, taurine, milk thistle?

Andy does not recommend coffee or lecithin for copper toxicity.

(Phosphatidylcholine is a component of lecithin, but you'd have to

take an awful lot of lecithin to get enough PC to do what you need.)

> The funny thing with the molybdenum is that the more I take the worse

> I feel. I feel even more and more diconnected from reality the more

> molybdenum I take. I'm not directly blaming the molybdenum for this,

> I'm blaming how the molybdenum effects the copper for this. The

> chromium is the total opposite, even though it mobilizes copper it

> seems to make me feel a lot better.

Chromium helps control blood sugar. Maybe that is what makes you

feel better.

> Well I know the limit for molybdenum is 3000 mcg so I'm just going to

> keep going higher and hope it improves.

>

> Do you think these really high doses of minerals are safe? Any

> suggestions?

I think the levels of minerals that Andy generally recommends are

safe. I suppose a person who is not mercury toxic could develop

excessive levels, but toxic people usually need a lot more of them

in general, and use a lot more of them during detox.

I would question whether 3000 mcg chromium is good for you.

--

[Guest guest]

>

> Do you know what the symptoms of molybdenum toxicity are? I've read

> it's toxicity is very rare. Chromium does seem a little dangerous

though.

On p. 124 of HTI, Andy says excess molyb can cause weakness, diarrhea,

loss of hair pigment, pain, anemia, low appetite, low hormones.

Of course, these symptoms can be caused by lots of things, including

mercury...

> > Are you taking phosphatidylcholine, glycine, taurine, milk thistle?

> > Andy does not recommend coffee or lecithin for copper toxicity.

> > (Phosphatidylcholine is a component of lecithin, but you'd have to

> > take an awful lot of lecithin to get enough PC to do what you need.)

>

> Well I can't tolerate milk thistle at all. I come down with such

> strong mercury symptoms from milk thistle that I feel like I have hit

> the insanity level of mercury problems (I'm not exaggerating this). I

I can appreciate this because several things push me towards

insanity land, too. One of them is ALA, and since there really

is no substitute, I have used small amounts and increased slowly.

You might want to consider doing this with milk thistle. Start

with very small amounts and work up. I could be wrong, but seems

like a reasonable approach since it is healing to the liver

and is recommended for copper toxicity. Maybe by starting very

low you would gradually become more tolerant?

> used to take taurine a while ago and got about the same results I got

> from lecithin.

>

> I thought Andy recommends lecithin?

He mentions lecithin here and there in AI, but not for copper, at

least not that I recall.

In HTI and on onibasu, he usually mentions phosphatidylcholine as

one of the things to use for copper toxicity, since it helps with

bile flow. It is also generally good for the liver.

It is probably not essential to use all of the things that promote

bile flow, but I imagine some would be needed. If your bile flow

has been blocked/reduced for a long time, I imagine it will cause

some symptoms at first. I don't know for sure, but I would try

to take a low, slow, gentle approach and see if it helps.

> > Chromium helps control blood sugar. Maybe that is what makes you

> > feel better.

>

> But it also reduced a lot of inflammation problems for me.

I would have to look it up, but I am pretty sure hyperglycemia

causes increased inflammation. So by controlling blood sugar,

you could also improve inflammation. Maybe try some other

ways of managing blood sugar to see if they help the inflammation.

> > I think the levels of minerals that Andy generally recommends are

> > safe. I suppose a person who is not mercury toxic could develop

> > excessive levels, but toxic people usually need a lot more of them

> > in general, and use a lot more of them during detox.

> >

> > I would question whether 3000 mcg chromium is good for you.

> >

> > --

> >

>

> According to this information. My chromium levels shouldn't go up

> much until my copper levels go down. Also that chromiun isn't

> actually low but it's low in ration to copper.

> http://www.acu-cell.com/crcu.html This information also claims that

> chromium Picolinate is much more toxic than chelated chromium.

>

Well, I don't know what to make of this website. I checked

their lists of molybdenum and chromium toxicity symptoms and

there isn't even any overlap with the symptoms Andy gives.

--

[Guest guest]

>

> Do you know what the symptoms of molybdenum toxicity are? I've read

> it's toxicity is very rare. Chromium does seem a little dangerous

though.

On p. 124 of HTI, Andy says excess molyb can cause weakness, diarrhea,

loss of hair pigment, pain, anemia, low appetite, low hormones.

Of course, these symptoms can be caused by lots of things, including

mercury...

> > Are you taking phosphatidylcholine, glycine, taurine, milk thistle?

> > Andy does not recommend coffee or lecithin for copper toxicity.

> > (Phosphatidylcholine is a component of lecithin, but you'd have to

> > take an awful lot of lecithin to get enough PC to do what you need.)

>

> Well I can't tolerate milk thistle at all. I come down with such

> strong mercury symptoms from milk thistle that I feel like I have hit

> the insanity level of mercury problems (I'm not exaggerating this). I

I can appreciate this because several things push me towards

insanity land, too. One of them is ALA, and since there really

is no substitute, I have used small amounts and increased slowly.

You might want to consider doing this with milk thistle. Start

with very small amounts and work up. I could be wrong, but seems

like a reasonable approach since it is healing to the liver

and is recommended for copper toxicity. Maybe by starting very

low you would gradually become more tolerant?

> used to take taurine a while ago and got about the same results I got

> from lecithin.

>

> I thought Andy recommends lecithin?

He mentions lecithin here and there in AI, but not for copper, at

least not that I recall.

In HTI and on onibasu, he usually mentions phosphatidylcholine as

one of the things to use for copper toxicity, since it helps with

bile flow. It is also generally good for the liver.

It is probably not essential to use all of the things that promote

bile flow, but I imagine some would be needed. If your bile flow

has been blocked/reduced for a long time, I imagine it will cause

some symptoms at first. I don't know for sure, but I would try

to take a low, slow, gentle approach and see if it helps.

> > Chromium helps control blood sugar. Maybe that is what makes you

> > feel better.

>

> But it also reduced a lot of inflammation problems for me.

I would have to look it up, but I am pretty sure hyperglycemia

causes increased inflammation. So by controlling blood sugar,

you could also improve inflammation. Maybe try some other

ways of managing blood sugar to see if they help the inflammation.

> > I think the levels of minerals that Andy generally recommends are

> > safe. I suppose a person who is not mercury toxic could develop

> > excessive levels, but toxic people usually need a lot more of them

> > in general, and use a lot more of them during detox.

> >

> > I would question whether 3000 mcg chromium is good for you.

> >

> > --

> >

>

> According to this information. My chromium levels shouldn't go up

> much until my copper levels go down. Also that chromiun isn't

> actually low but it's low in ration to copper.

> http://www.acu-cell.com/crcu.html This information also claims that

> chromium Picolinate is much more toxic than chelated chromium.

>

Well, I don't know what to make of this website. I checked

their lists of molybdenum and chromium toxicity symptoms and

there isn't even any overlap with the symptoms Andy gives.

--

[Guest guest]

>

> Do you know what the symptoms of molybdenum toxicity are? I've read

> it's toxicity is very rare. Chromium does seem a little dangerous

though.

On p. 124 of HTI, Andy says excess molyb can cause weakness, diarrhea,

loss of hair pigment, pain, anemia, low appetite, low hormones.

Of course, these symptoms can be caused by lots of things, including

mercury...

> > Are you taking phosphatidylcholine, glycine, taurine, milk thistle?

> > Andy does not recommend coffee or lecithin for copper toxicity.

> > (Phosphatidylcholine is a component of lecithin, but you'd have to

> > take an awful lot of lecithin to get enough PC to do what you need.)

>

> Well I can't tolerate milk thistle at all. I come down with such

> strong mercury symptoms from milk thistle that I feel like I have hit

> the insanity level of mercury problems (I'm not exaggerating this). I

I can appreciate this because several things push me towards

insanity land, too. One of them is ALA, and since there really

is no substitute, I have used small amounts and increased slowly.

You might want to consider doing this with milk thistle. Start

with very small amounts and work up. I could be wrong, but seems

like a reasonable approach since it is healing to the liver

and is recommended for copper toxicity. Maybe by starting very

low you would gradually become more tolerant?

> used to take taurine a while ago and got about the same results I got

> from lecithin.

>

> I thought Andy recommends lecithin?

He mentions lecithin here and there in AI, but not for copper, at

least not that I recall.

In HTI and on onibasu, he usually mentions phosphatidylcholine as

one of the things to use for copper toxicity, since it helps with

bile flow. It is also generally good for the liver.

It is probably not essential to use all of the things that promote

bile flow, but I imagine some would be needed. If your bile flow

has been blocked/reduced for a long time, I imagine it will cause

some symptoms at first. I don't know for sure, but I would try

to take a low, slow, gentle approach and see if it helps.

> > Chromium helps control blood sugar. Maybe that is what makes you

> > feel better.

>

> But it also reduced a lot of inflammation problems for me.

I would have to look it up, but I am pretty sure hyperglycemia

causes increased inflammation. So by controlling blood sugar,

you could also improve inflammation. Maybe try some other

ways of managing blood sugar to see if they help the inflammation.

> > I think the levels of minerals that Andy generally recommends are

> > safe. I suppose a person who is not mercury toxic could develop

> > excessive levels, but toxic people usually need a lot more of them

> > in general, and use a lot more of them during detox.

> >

> > I would question whether 3000 mcg chromium is good for you.

> >

> > --

> >

>

> According to this information. My chromium levels shouldn't go up

> much until my copper levels go down. Also that chromiun isn't

> actually low but it's low in ration to copper.

> http://www.acu-cell.com/crcu.html This information also claims that

> chromium Picolinate is much more toxic than chelated chromium.

>

Well, I don't know what to make of this website. I checked

their lists of molybdenum and chromium toxicity symptoms and

there isn't even any overlap with the symptoms Andy gives.

--