Re: How long does Vitamin K stay in your system?

[Guest guest]

,

When I was listed for a liver transplant 3 years ago the hepatologist

at the tx center had me start taking vitamin K because my INR was so

high (above 4 at the time). Later when it crept up close to 2 the vit

K dose was doubled to bring INR back to normal.

While a high INR will increase MELD, if it is due to lack of vit K

then it is more indicative of poor nutrition or absorption than liver

failure. There may be reasons to push for a early transplant, but if

it were me, I would try to keep my original as long as possible.

Tim R, ltx 4/4/98, 6/19/07, 7/7/07 & doing great

[Guest guest]

,

When I was listed for a liver transplant 3 years ago the hepatologist

at the tx center had me start taking vitamin K because my INR was so

high (above 4 at the time). Later when it crept up close to 2 the vit

K dose was doubled to bring INR back to normal.

While a high INR will increase MELD, if it is due to lack of vit K

then it is more indicative of poor nutrition or absorption than liver

failure. There may be reasons to push for a early transplant, but if

it were me, I would try to keep my original as long as possible.

Tim R, ltx 4/4/98, 6/19/07, 7/7/07 & doing great

[Guest guest]

,

When I was listed for a liver transplant 3 years ago the hepatologist

at the tx center had me start taking vitamin K because my INR was so

high (above 4 at the time). Later when it crept up close to 2 the vit

K dose was doubled to bring INR back to normal.

While a high INR will increase MELD, if it is due to lack of vit K

then it is more indicative of poor nutrition or absorption than liver

failure. There may be reasons to push for a early transplant, but if

it were me, I would try to keep my original as long as possible.

Tim R, ltx 4/4/98, 6/19/07, 7/7/07 & doing great

[Guest guest]

What is the normal INR? thanks cheryl

Re: How long does Vitamin K stay in your system?

> ,

> When I was listed for a liver transplant 3 years ago the hepatologist

> at the tx center had me start taking vitamin K because my INR was so

> high (above 4 at the time). Later when it crept up close to 2 the vit

> K dose was doubled to bring INR back to normal.

>

> > Tim R, ltx 4/4/98, 6/19/07, 7/7/07 & doing great

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What is the normal INR? thanks cheryl

Re: How long does Vitamin K stay in your system?

> ,

> When I was listed for a liver transplant 3 years ago the hepatologist

> at the tx center had me start taking vitamin K because my INR was so

> high (above 4 at the time). Later when it crept up close to 2 the vit

> K dose was doubled to bring INR back to normal.

>

> > Tim R, ltx 4/4/98, 6/19/07, 7/7/07 & doing great

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What is the normal INR? thanks cheryl

Re: How long does Vitamin K stay in your system?

> ,

> When I was listed for a liver transplant 3 years ago the hepatologist

> at the tx center had me start taking vitamin K because my INR was so

> high (above 4 at the time). Later when it crept up close to 2 the vit

> K dose was doubled to bring INR back to normal.

>

> > Tim R, ltx 4/4/98, 6/19/07, 7/7/07 & doing great

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Stacey;

Your note that your son has an " immune deficiency " leads me to ask if

your son been tested for Cryptosporidium infection:

Am J Gastroenterol. 1987 Nov;82(11):1196-202.

Sclerosing cholangitis associated with chronic cryptosporidiosis in a

child with a congenital immunodeficiency disorder.

JJ, Heyman MB, Ferrell L, Kerner J, Kerlan R Jr, Thaler MM.

Department of Pediatrics, University of California, San Francisco.

Primary sclerosing cholangitis (PSC) in children is a rare and

incurable disorder of unknown etiology. We report an immunodeficient

child with chronic cryptosporidiosis of the biliary tract leading to

clinical, pathological, and radiographic findings consistent with

PSC. This case documents the ability of Cryptosporidium to

disseminate to extraintestinal organs, and suggests that chronic

cryptosporidial infection of the biliary tract may be one etiological

mechanism producing sclerosing cholangitis in immunodeficient

children. The increased incidence of PSC in immunodeficient children

may in part be due to their inability to resolve infections of the

biliary tract, which may result in sclerosing cholangitis mimicking

PSC. We submit that an aggressive diagnostic workup should be

performed to rule out an infectious etiology of sclerosing

cholangitis in immunodeficient patients who have findings of PSC,

because specific chemotherapy against the infecting organism would

potentially arrest progressive biliary obliteration. PMID: 3674002.

Best regards,

Dave

(father of (22); PSC 07/03; UC 08/03)

>

> I would like to know what you find out about your vitamin K issues.

My son is 20 and recently diagnosed with SPC. He also has an immune

deficiency etc. etc. etc. He is also on vitamin K. Any information is

appreciated.

[Guest guest]

Hi Stacey;

Your note that your son has an " immune deficiency " leads me to ask if

your son been tested for Cryptosporidium infection:

Am J Gastroenterol. 1987 Nov;82(11):1196-202.

Sclerosing cholangitis associated with chronic cryptosporidiosis in a

child with a congenital immunodeficiency disorder.

JJ, Heyman MB, Ferrell L, Kerner J, Kerlan R Jr, Thaler MM.

Department of Pediatrics, University of California, San Francisco.

Primary sclerosing cholangitis (PSC) in children is a rare and

incurable disorder of unknown etiology. We report an immunodeficient

child with chronic cryptosporidiosis of the biliary tract leading to

clinical, pathological, and radiographic findings consistent with

PSC. This case documents the ability of Cryptosporidium to

disseminate to extraintestinal organs, and suggests that chronic

cryptosporidial infection of the biliary tract may be one etiological

mechanism producing sclerosing cholangitis in immunodeficient

children. The increased incidence of PSC in immunodeficient children

may in part be due to their inability to resolve infections of the

biliary tract, which may result in sclerosing cholangitis mimicking

PSC. We submit that an aggressive diagnostic workup should be

performed to rule out an infectious etiology of sclerosing

cholangitis in immunodeficient patients who have findings of PSC,

because specific chemotherapy against the infecting organism would

potentially arrest progressive biliary obliteration. PMID: 3674002.

Best regards,

Dave

(father of (22); PSC 07/03; UC 08/03)

>

> I would like to know what you find out about your vitamin K issues.

My son is 20 and recently diagnosed with SPC. He also has an immune

deficiency etc. etc. etc. He is also on vitamin K. Any information is

appreciated.

[Guest guest]

Hi Stacey;

Your note that your son has an " immune deficiency " leads me to ask if

your son been tested for Cryptosporidium infection:

Am J Gastroenterol. 1987 Nov;82(11):1196-202.

Sclerosing cholangitis associated with chronic cryptosporidiosis in a

child with a congenital immunodeficiency disorder.

JJ, Heyman MB, Ferrell L, Kerner J, Kerlan R Jr, Thaler MM.

Department of Pediatrics, University of California, San Francisco.

Primary sclerosing cholangitis (PSC) in children is a rare and

incurable disorder of unknown etiology. We report an immunodeficient

child with chronic cryptosporidiosis of the biliary tract leading to

clinical, pathological, and radiographic findings consistent with

PSC. This case documents the ability of Cryptosporidium to

disseminate to extraintestinal organs, and suggests that chronic

cryptosporidial infection of the biliary tract may be one etiological

mechanism producing sclerosing cholangitis in immunodeficient

children. The increased incidence of PSC in immunodeficient children

may in part be due to their inability to resolve infections of the

biliary tract, which may result in sclerosing cholangitis mimicking

PSC. We submit that an aggressive diagnostic workup should be

performed to rule out an infectious etiology of sclerosing

cholangitis in immunodeficient patients who have findings of PSC,

because specific chemotherapy against the infecting organism would

potentially arrest progressive biliary obliteration. PMID: 3674002.

Best regards,

Dave

(father of (22); PSC 07/03; UC 08/03)

>

> I would like to know what you find out about your vitamin K issues.

My son is 20 and recently diagnosed with SPC. He also has an immune

deficiency etc. etc. etc. He is also on vitamin K. Any information is

appreciated.

[Guest guest]

- You are absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge of the literature and your amazing research capabilities with all of us!

Hi Stacey;Your note that your son has an "immune deficiency" leads me to ask if your son been tested for Cryptosporidium infection:Dave (father of (22); PSC 07/03; UC 08/03)

..

[Guest guest]

- You are absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge of the literature and your amazing research capabilities with all of us!

Hi Stacey;Your note that your son has an "immune deficiency" leads me to ask if your son been tested for Cryptosporidium infection:Dave (father of (22); PSC 07/03; UC 08/03)

..

[Guest guest]

- You are absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge of the literature and your amazing research capabilities with all of us!

Hi Stacey;Your note that your son has an "immune deficiency" leads me to ask if your son been tested for Cryptosporidium infection:Dave (father of (22); PSC 07/03; UC 08/03)

..

[Guest guest]

> What is the normal INR? thanks cheryl

Normal INR is 1. Anything above one will increase the MELD score -

almost by 1 point for each 0.1 increase in INR.

" A healthy person will have an INR of 1.0. "

http://yourtotalhealth.ivillage.com/inr.html

Tim R

[Guest guest]

> What is the normal INR? thanks cheryl

Normal INR is 1. Anything above one will increase the MELD score -

almost by 1 point for each 0.1 increase in INR.

" A healthy person will have an INR of 1.0. "

http://yourtotalhealth.ivillage.com/inr.html

Tim R

[Guest guest]

Hi Barb;

The thread of the conversation was that one doctor was very concerned

about the patient's bone density and risk of fractures, and so

prescribed vitamin D and vitamin K. There is evidence that vitamin K

can enhance the effectiveness of vitamin D, and I am assuming this is

why the doctor prescribed both:

Nutrition. 2001 Oct;17(10):880-7.

Vitamin K and bone health.

Weber P

Vitamins and Fine Chemicals Division, Human Nutrition & Health, F.

Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd, CH-4070 Basel, Switzerland.

peter.weber@...

In the past decade it has become evident that vitamin K has a

significant role to play in human health that is beyond its well-

established function in blood clotting. There is a consistent line of

evidence in human epidemiologic and intervention studies that clearly

demonstrates that vitamin K can improve bone health. The human

intervention studies have demonstrated that vitamin K can not only

increase bone mineral density in osteoporotic people but also

actually reduce fracture rates. Further, there is evidence in human

intervention studies that vitamins K and D, a classic in bone

metabolism, works synergistically on bone density. Most of these

studies employed vitamin K(2) at rather high doses, a fact that has

been criticized as a shortcoming of these studies. However, there is

emerging evidence in human intervention studies that vitamin K(1) at

a much lower dose may also benefit bone health, in particular when

coadministered with vitamin D. Several mechanisms are suggested by

which vitamin K can modulate bone metabolism. Besides the gamma-

carboxylation of osteocalcin, a protein believed to be involved in

bone mineralization, there is increasing evidence that vitamin K also

positively affects calcium balance, a key mineral in bone metabolism.

The Institute of Medicine recently has increased the dietary

reference intakes of vitamin K to 90 microg/d for females and 120

microg/d for males, which is an increase of approximately 50% from

previous recommendations. PMID: 11684396.

I was commenting that the hepatologist was apparently frowning upon

the vitamin K supplement because it would decrease INR, and lower the

patient's MELD score (if I understand correctly?). So I was asking

(in a round about way) would cutting off the vitamin K be in the best

interest of the patient at this time when bone density (and risk of

fractures) seems to be an important issue.

Best regards,

Dave

(father of (22); PSC 07/03; UC 08/03)

>

> -----Original Message-----

> Is the goal of the Hepatologist to try to increase your husband's

INR,

> and hence MELD score? If so, you need to ask whether this is really

in

> your husband's best interest at this time? Increased INR means

increased

> risk of bleeding,

>

> I'm sorry I missed part of this conversation. Were you giving your

> husband Vitamin K on your own or did the doctor tell him to take

it? No

> one should take any vitamins without their doctor's permission,

> especially Vitamin K. With a higher INR there is a risk of

bleeding,

> but with a low INR you can get blood clots and you surely don't want

> that either, both are equally dangerous. That's why you need to

talk to

> your doctor and let him explain himself before changing any thing on

> your own. HTH,

>

> Barb in Texas - Together in the Fight, Whatever it Takes!

> Son Ken (34) UC 91 - PSC 99 - Tx 6/21 & 6/30/07 @ Baylor in Dallas

>