Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 To be serious for a moment, HIPAA forbids the release of individually identifiable health information (IIHI) without proper authorization or a legal reason for doing so. There is a long section of the regs that defines IIHI. It extends from patient's names to zip codes, birthdates, and a plethora of other items. However, if there's no way to identify a patient from a part of the records, then there's arguably no violation. So an x-ray purporting to show an object contained within a human body, unless it also contains some method of identifying the body within which said object is contained, probabky is not classifiable as IIHI. CAVEAT: CMS has, up to now, taken a very benign view about disclosures such as this. Now we have a new administration, and its response to such incidents is still unknown. My reading of HIPAA and its regs leads me to believe that even if the publishing of the x-ray were to be a violation, it would only be a civil violation resulting in a maximum $100 fine to the healthcare provider, not to any employee. So far, CMS has never, to my knowledge, seen fit to levy one of those civil fines, preferring instead to seek compliance. I suppose that if the US Attorney could prove that the posting of the x-ray was for the purpose of making money, then there might be a criminal violation, but I seriously doubt it. So I doubt that the published materials constitute individually identifiable health information minus the customary template with patient name, number, and so forth. Without that, it would be quite a stretch to say that a patient could be identified from that alone. However, once it's known who posted it, then there's the possibility that the Fat Boys Institute (FBI) could, through aggressive investigation, water boarding, deprivation of comfort food, and so forth, track down the patient's identity by obtaining confessions from the posters. Oh. Sorry. I said this was going to be serious. I certainly hope that the Fat Boys will concentrate on this, since they have caught all the bank robbers, child kidnappers, sex traders, car thieves, terrorists, and other misdemeanants roaming our land. OK. Seriously. I don't encourage the publication of any patient's x-rays, but let's put this in perspective. After all this conversation I still don't know the identity of the patient. GG > > Crass and tasteless, yes. > > But unless the patient could easily be identified by the x-ray and the > discussion, I fail to see the HIPAA violation. > > Bledsoe, DO wrote: > > > > Case Referred To FBI For Possible HIPAA Violations > > > > LAKE GENEVA, Wis. -- Nurses accused of photographing a patient and posting > > the pictures on the Internet have been fired. > > > > The investigation started with an anonymous call from an employee at Mercy > > Walworth Medical Center in Lake Geneva, with the allegation that a nurse > > took pictures of a patient with her cell phone and posted them on her > > Facebook page. > > > > Last week, the nurse told 12 News she never posted the pictures on the > > Internet. Investigators have since interviewed the nurse and said she > > offered more details. > > > > " There were two nurses that independently took a picture each of an > > X-ray of > > a patient, " Walworth County Undersheriff Kurt Picknell said. > > > > The patient was admitted to the emergency room with an object lodged > > in his > > rectum. Police said the nurse explained she and a co-worker snapped photos > > when they learned it was a sex device. Police said discussion about the > > incident was posted on her Facebook page, but they haven't found > > anyone who > > actually saw the pictures. > > > > The nurse removed her Facebook page from the Internet last week. Without > > more, Picknell said this conduct does not appear to violate any state > > laws. > > He has referred the case to the FBI. > > > > " We've notified federal authorities of this allegation to see if there are > > federal violations, most notably HIPAA violations, patient rights, " he > > said. > > > > The hospital did not return a call seeking comment. > > > > > > -- > Grayson > www.kellygrayson. ww > > ************** Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=Tax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filing & n\ cid=emlcntusyelp00000004) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Breach of ethics? Yes. Violation of HIPAA? Probably not. Adolescent behavior? Of course. Harm done? Yet to be determined. People ought to be fired? Depends. Maybe, maybe not. Depends on lots of things. Off with their heads may be too much. Simply hanging them by their thumbs might suffice. GG > > On Thursday, February 26, 2009 22:43, " Grayson " Grayson902@...> > said: > > > Crass and tasteless, yes. > > > > But unless the patient could easily be identified by the x-ray and the > > discussion, I fail to see the HIPAA violation. > > It is not the HIPAA aspect that concerns me so much as the simple lack of > ethics in general. Off with their heads. > > Rob > > ************** Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=Tax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filing & n\ cid=emlcntusyelp00000004) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Crass and tasteless, yes. But unless the patient could easily be identified by the x-ray and the discussion, I fail to see the HIPAA violation. Bledsoe, DO wrote: > > Case Referred To FBI For Possible HIPAA Violations > > LAKE GENEVA, Wis. -- Nurses accused of photographing a patient and posting > the pictures on the Internet have been fired. > > The investigation started with an anonymous call from an employee at Mercy > Walworth Medical Center in Lake Geneva, with the allegation that a nurse > took pictures of a patient with her cell phone and posted them on her > Facebook page. > > Last week, the nurse told 12 News she never posted the pictures on the > Internet. Investigators have since interviewed the nurse and said she > offered more details. > > " There were two nurses that independently took a picture each of an > X-ray of > a patient, " Walworth County Undersheriff Kurt Picknell said. > > The patient was admitted to the emergency room with an object lodged > in his > rectum. Police said the nurse explained she and a co-worker snapped photos > when they learned it was a sex device. Police said discussion about the > incident was posted on her Facebook page, but they haven't found > anyone who > actually saw the pictures. > > The nurse removed her Facebook page from the Internet last week. Without > more, Picknell said this conduct does not appear to violate any state > laws. > He has referred the case to the FBI. > > " We've notified federal authorities of this allegation to see if there are > federal violations, most notably HIPAA violations, patient rights, " he > said. > > The hospital did not return a call seeking comment. > > -- Grayson www.kellygrayson.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Crass and tasteless, yes. But unless the patient could easily be identified by the x-ray and the discussion, I fail to see the HIPAA violation. Bledsoe, DO wrote: > > Case Referred To FBI For Possible HIPAA Violations > > LAKE GENEVA, Wis. -- Nurses accused of photographing a patient and posting > the pictures on the Internet have been fired. > > The investigation started with an anonymous call from an employee at Mercy > Walworth Medical Center in Lake Geneva, with the allegation that a nurse > took pictures of a patient with her cell phone and posted them on her > Facebook page. > > Last week, the nurse told 12 News she never posted the pictures on the > Internet. Investigators have since interviewed the nurse and said she > offered more details. > > " There were two nurses that independently took a picture each of an > X-ray of > a patient, " Walworth County Undersheriff Kurt Picknell said. > > The patient was admitted to the emergency room with an object lodged > in his > rectum. Police said the nurse explained she and a co-worker snapped photos > when they learned it was a sex device. Police said discussion about the > incident was posted on her Facebook page, but they haven't found > anyone who > actually saw the pictures. > > The nurse removed her Facebook page from the Internet last week. Without > more, Picknell said this conduct does not appear to violate any state > laws. > He has referred the case to the FBI. > > " We've notified federal authorities of this allegation to see if there are > federal violations, most notably HIPAA violations, patient rights, " he > said. > > The hospital did not return a call seeking comment. > > -- Grayson www.kellygrayson.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Crass and tasteless, yes. But unless the patient could easily be identified by the x-ray and the discussion, I fail to see the HIPAA violation. Bledsoe, DO wrote: > > Case Referred To FBI For Possible HIPAA Violations > > LAKE GENEVA, Wis. -- Nurses accused of photographing a patient and posting > the pictures on the Internet have been fired. > > The investigation started with an anonymous call from an employee at Mercy > Walworth Medical Center in Lake Geneva, with the allegation that a nurse > took pictures of a patient with her cell phone and posted them on her > Facebook page. > > Last week, the nurse told 12 News she never posted the pictures on the > Internet. Investigators have since interviewed the nurse and said she > offered more details. > > " There were two nurses that independently took a picture each of an > X-ray of > a patient, " Walworth County Undersheriff Kurt Picknell said. > > The patient was admitted to the emergency room with an object lodged > in his > rectum. Police said the nurse explained she and a co-worker snapped photos > when they learned it was a sex device. Police said discussion about the > incident was posted on her Facebook page, but they haven't found > anyone who > actually saw the pictures. > > The nurse removed her Facebook page from the Internet last week. Without > more, Picknell said this conduct does not appear to violate any state > laws. > He has referred the case to the FBI. > > " We've notified federal authorities of this allegation to see if there are > federal violations, most notably HIPAA violations, patient rights, " he > said. > > The hospital did not return a call seeking comment. > > -- Grayson www.kellygrayson.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 On Thursday, February 26, 2009 22:43, " Grayson " Grayson902@...> said: > Crass and tasteless, yes. > > But unless the patient could easily be identified by the x-ray and the > discussion, I fail to see the HIPAA violation. It is not the HIPAA aspect that concerns me so much as the simple lack of ethics in general. Off with their heads. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Regardless if anything related to the PHI is identified. DO WE not have a duty to protect our patients which includes pictures of anything related to the patient (x-ray, report, surgery photos, etc), discussing any case outside a QA/QI process. What ever happened to confidentiality which was here long before HIPAA Ricky To: texasems-l Date: 02/26/2009 22:47 Subject: Re: HIPAA Violation Sent by: texasems-l Crass and tasteless, yes. But unless the patient could easily be identified by the x-ray and the discussion, I fail to see the HIPAA violation. Bledsoe, DO wrote: > > Case Referred To FBI For Possible HIPAA Violations > > LAKE GENEVA, Wis. -- Nurses accused of photographing a patient and posting > the pictures on the Internet have been fired. > > The investigation started with an anonymous call from an employee at Mercy > Walworth Medical Center in Lake Geneva, with the allegation that a nurse > took pictures of a patient with her cell phone and posted them on her > Facebook page. > > Last week, the nurse told 12 News she never posted the pictures on the > Internet. Investigators have since interviewed the nurse and said she > offered more details. > > " There were two nurses that independently took a picture each of an > X-ray of > a patient, " Walworth County Undersheriff Kurt Picknell said. > > The patient was admitted to the emergency room with an object lodged > in his > rectum. Police said the nurse explained she and a co-worker snapped photos > when they learned it was a sex device. Police said discussion about the > incident was posted on her Facebook page, but they haven't found > anyone who > actually saw the pictures. > > The nurse removed her Facebook page from the Internet last week. Without > more, Picknell said this conduct does not appear to violate any state > laws. > He has referred the case to the FBI. > > " We've notified federal authorities of this allegation to see if there are > federal violations, most notably HIPAA violations, patient rights, " he > said. > > The hospital did not return a call seeking comment. > > -- Grayson www.kellygrayson.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 We do have a duty to protect patient confidentiality. Now tell me how, exactly, a picture of an x-ray on the internet violates that confidentiality. Because unless it says " Q. Public, pelvic view of Turbinator 2000 vibrator stuck in rectum, Mercy Medical Center, 2/28/09 " ... .....I don't really sow how you're violating his privacy. That would be like me posting a generic picture of a Ford Taurus on the 'net and having someone say, " Hey, that's MY car! How DARE he??? " rreeves@... wrote: > > Regardless if anything related to the PHI is identified. DO WE not have a > duty to protect our patients which includes pictures of anything > related to > the patient (x-ray, report, surgery photos, etc), discussing any case > outside a QA/QI process. What ever happened to confidentiality which was > here long before HIPAA > > Ricky > > From: Grayson Grayson902@... > > > To: texasems-l > > Date: 02/26/2009 22:47 > > Subject: Re: HIPAA Violation > > Sent by: texasems-l > > > Crass and tasteless, yes. > > But unless the patient could easily be identified by the x-ray and the > discussion, I fail to see the HIPAA violation. > > Bledsoe, DO wrote: > > > > Case Referred To FBI For Possible HIPAA Violations > > > > LAKE GENEVA, Wis. -- Nurses accused of photographing a patient and > posting > > the pictures on the Internet have been fired. > > > > The investigation started with an anonymous call from an employee at > Mercy > > Walworth Medical Center in Lake Geneva, with the allegation that a > nurse > > took pictures of a patient with her cell phone and posted them on her > > Facebook page. > > > > Last week, the nurse told 12 News she never posted the pictures on the > > Internet. Investigators have since interviewed the nurse and said she > > offered more details. > > > > " There were two nurses that independently took a picture each of an > > X-ray of > > a patient, " Walworth County Undersheriff Kurt Picknell said. > > > > The patient was admitted to the emergency room with an object lodged > > in his > > rectum. Police said the nurse explained she and a co-worker snapped > photos > > when they learned it was a sex device. Police said discussion about the > > incident was posted on her Facebook page, but they haven't found > > anyone who > > actually saw the pictures. > > > > The nurse removed her Facebook page from the Internet last week. > Without > > more, Picknell said this conduct does not appear to violate any state > > laws. > > He has referred the case to the FBI. > > > > " We've notified federal authorities of this allegation to see if > there are > > federal violations, most notably HIPAA violations, patient rights, " he > > said. > > > > The hospital did not return a call seeking comment. > > > > > > -- > Grayson > www.kellygrayson.com > > > > > > -- Grayson www.kellygrayson.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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