Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 And I can tell you in less than 10 minutes how many times in my 27+ years in public safety where things that made sense applied to anything related to fire and EMS. But than again I'm a proponent of a local decision as to things like how you do EMS and such not globalization or standardization. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) In a message dated 9/2/2009 3:35:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time, spenair@... writes: You have to admit it makes more sense if EMS is the money maker to take over fire rather than fire taking over EMS. > > > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 2:18:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > spenair@... writes: > > So actually we need to have EMS take over fire as EMS should be the > priority as it is majority. > > > > Good luck with that. > > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/ > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance C Freelance Consultant/Traine > > LNMolino@... > > (Cell Phone) > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > > " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds > discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 And I can tell you in less than 10 minutes how many times in my 27+ years in public safety where things that made sense applied to anything related to fire and EMS. But than again I'm a proponent of a local decision as to things like how you do EMS and such not globalization or standardization. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) In a message dated 9/2/2009 3:35:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time, spenair@... writes: You have to admit it makes more sense if EMS is the money maker to take over fire rather than fire taking over EMS. > > > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 2:18:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > spenair@... writes: > > So actually we need to have EMS take over fire as EMS should be the > priority as it is majority. > > > > Good luck with that. > > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/ > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance C Freelance Consultant/Traine > > LNMolino@... > > (Cell Phone) > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > > " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds > discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 And I can tell you in less than 10 minutes how many times in my 27+ years in public safety where things that made sense applied to anything related to fire and EMS. But than again I'm a proponent of a local decision as to things like how you do EMS and such not globalization or standardization. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) In a message dated 9/2/2009 3:35:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time, spenair@... writes: You have to admit it makes more sense if EMS is the money maker to take over fire rather than fire taking over EMS. > > > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 2:18:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > spenair@... writes: > > So actually we need to have EMS take over fire as EMS should be the > priority as it is majority. > > > > Good luck with that. > > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/ FF/ > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/ Freelance C Freelance Consultant/Traine > > LNMolino@... > > (Cell Phone) > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > > " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds > discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Just how many IAFF or for that mater non IAFF fire systems are trying to " take over " EMS in Texas or elsewhere? Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) In a message dated 9/2/2009 3:52:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time, spenair@... writes: So when will fire take over law enforcement? Oh thats right the IAFF posted several months back basically that it is not good to be involved in multiple professions as hard to master them. Wonder why they do not apply that to the medical profession they are trying to take over? But I understand EMS will never have power as we do not organize, in fact as a group seems we agree on very little. Oh well I will keep up my idealistic ways. --- In _texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l ) , Clgrote126@., Clg > > I agree with Molino, Renny, have fun storming the castle! > > I am in a fire based EMS system, so I kind of pay attention to things like > this. Nationwide, a lot of fire chiefs are jumping onboard with the idea as > a way to increase their department's " worth " in front of their city > councils. The IAFF is pretty well onboard, too, as far as I can tell. If you make > yourself more valuable by being able to do more things, you will be able to > get a more and increased budget, job security, etc, instead of a private or > 3rd city service competing with you for budget dollars. To get your Texas Fire > Commission Firefighter cert, you have to have EMT training as a > requirement. Lots of fire departments do first response, with an ambulance agency > transporting. It is not that short of a walk from point A to point B for a fire > chief who needs to justify his agency's existence to have the council write > an ordinance that excludes outside agencies from doing EMS work, so he could > take over. I am suprised more haven't done it already in the economic > downturn, as budgets have gotten tight. > > I see what you are trying to say about EMS taking over fire (we make a lot > more EMS calls than fire calls) but there you go being idealistic again! Ha > Have a good day, my friend! > Chris > > > By the way, I am not starting a debate over fire based vs. other systems, > just talking. So please don't do that. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 In a message dated 9/2/2009 3:56:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dsmith@... writes: The " US and THEM " stuff just gets in the way. In 1981 a wise old ex Volunteer Fire Chief who had also been a career guy told me that the " fundamental " problem in the fire and EMS Game as he called it (and I still do) was the " Us's and the Them's " , and that each time you change the subject of the conversation it seemed that the " Us's and the Them's changed sides for that topic. he was right then and likely will be when my as of yet un conceived (I hope) Grand Children are talking on this List in 30 years. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 In a message dated 9/2/2009 3:56:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dsmith@... writes: The " US and THEM " stuff just gets in the way. In 1981 a wise old ex Volunteer Fire Chief who had also been a career guy told me that the " fundamental " problem in the fire and EMS Game as he called it (and I still do) was the " Us's and the Them's " , and that each time you change the subject of the conversation it seemed that the " Us's and the Them's changed sides for that topic. he was right then and likely will be when my as of yet un conceived (I hope) Grand Children are talking on this List in 30 years. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 In a message dated 9/2/2009 3:56:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dsmith@... writes: The " US and THEM " stuff just gets in the way. In 1981 a wise old ex Volunteer Fire Chief who had also been a career guy told me that the " fundamental " problem in the fire and EMS Game as he called it (and I still do) was the " Us's and the Them's " , and that each time you change the subject of the conversation it seemed that the " Us's and the Them's changed sides for that topic. he was right then and likely will be when my as of yet un conceived (I hope) Grand Children are talking on this List in 30 years. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 It's better when neither function " takes over " but rather work together as two parts of a public safety service. In Celina, when the engine goes on a call, the MICU goes as well - usually faster and therefore first. Whenever there is an EMS call, the engine always goes with the ambulance. Those on the engine are there to help the EMS team if they are needed (virtually always). And, we all work both the ambulance and the engine. We are one team providing whatever service is needed. The " US and THEM " stuff just gets in the way. Oh, and by the way, we split just about 50-50 between fire calls and EMS calls. But then, we do more than just fight fires. Dick Captain/EMT-B, Celina Fire Department At 03:34 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote: > > >You have to admit it makes more sense if EMS is the money maker to >take over fire rather than fire taking over EMS. > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 2:18:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > spenair@... writes: > > > > So actually we need to have EMS take over fire as EMS should be the > > priority as it is majority. > > > > > > > > Good luck with that. > > > > > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant > > > > LNMolino@... > > > > (Cell Phone) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 It's better when neither function " takes over " but rather work together as two parts of a public safety service. In Celina, when the engine goes on a call, the MICU goes as well - usually faster and therefore first. Whenever there is an EMS call, the engine always goes with the ambulance. Those on the engine are there to help the EMS team if they are needed (virtually always). And, we all work both the ambulance and the engine. We are one team providing whatever service is needed. The " US and THEM " stuff just gets in the way. Oh, and by the way, we split just about 50-50 between fire calls and EMS calls. But then, we do more than just fight fires. Dick Captain/EMT-B, Celina Fire Department At 03:34 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote: > > >You have to admit it makes more sense if EMS is the money maker to >take over fire rather than fire taking over EMS. > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 2:18:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > spenair@... writes: > > > > So actually we need to have EMS take over fire as EMS should be the > > priority as it is majority. > > > > > > > > Good luck with that. > > > > > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant > > > > LNMolino@... > > > > (Cell Phone) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 It's better when neither function " takes over " but rather work together as two parts of a public safety service. In Celina, when the engine goes on a call, the MICU goes as well - usually faster and therefore first. Whenever there is an EMS call, the engine always goes with the ambulance. Those on the engine are there to help the EMS team if they are needed (virtually always). And, we all work both the ambulance and the engine. We are one team providing whatever service is needed. The " US and THEM " stuff just gets in the way. Oh, and by the way, we split just about 50-50 between fire calls and EMS calls. But then, we do more than just fight fires. Dick Captain/EMT-B, Celina Fire Department At 03:34 PM 9/2/2009, you wrote: > > >You have to admit it makes more sense if EMS is the money maker to >take over fire rather than fire taking over EMS. > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 2:18:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > spenair@... writes: > > > > So actually we need to have EMS take over fire as EMS should be the > > priority as it is majority. > > > > > > > > Good luck with that. > > > > > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant > > > > LNMolino@... > > > > (Cell Phone) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Isn't in interesting that, while railing against combining Fire and LE, They use the argument that " Fire/EMS.... " several times? Such as here: " Emergency Medical Services. Today’s fire fighters also provide numerous other public services, including emergency medical services (EMS). In cities where the fire department is responsible for EMS, call volumes have soared. This alone is a successful argument against PSOs. What does a PSO do when he/she responds to the scene of a motor vehicle accident—do they provide EMS assistance or do they perform police duties? " What makes Fire and EMS so alike, and makes Fire and LE so different? As it says above, call volumes have soared! So, three things I see here: $$$$ $$$$ and more $$$$ It's always about Power, Politics, and $$$$. spenair wrote: > Link to IAFF statement opposing combining LE with fire before I get called out on my statement. > > > http://www.iaff.org/09News/PDFs/PSOSystems.pdf > > Seems hypocritical as they are as similar if not more so to LE than they are to a medical profession like EMS. > > > >> >>> I agree with Molino, Renny, have fun storming the castle! >>> >>> I am in a fire based EMS system, so I kind of pay attention to things like >>> this. Nationwide, a lot of fire chiefs are jumping onboard with the idea as >>> a way to increase their department's " worth " in front of their city >>> councils. The IAFF is pretty well onboard, too, as far as I can tell. If you make >>> yourself more valuable by being able to do more things, you will be able to >>> get a more and increased budget, job security, etc, instead of a private or >>> 3rd city service competing with you for budget dollars. To get your Texas Fire >>> Commission Firefighter cert, you have to have EMT training as a >>> requirement. Lots of fire departments do first response, with an ambulance agency >>> transporting. It is not that short of a walk from point A to point B for a fire >>> chief who needs to justify his agency's existence to have the council write >>> an ordinance that excludes outside agencies from doing EMS work, so he could >>> take over. I am suprised more haven't done it already in the economic >>> downturn, as budgets have gotten tight. >>> >>> I see what you are trying to say about EMS taking over fire (we make a lot >>> more EMS calls than fire calls) but there you go being idealistic again! Ha >>> Have a good day, my friend! >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> By the way, I am not starting a debate over fire based vs. other systems, >>> just talking. So please don't do that. >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Isn't in interesting that, while railing against combining Fire and LE, They use the argument that " Fire/EMS.... " several times? Such as here: " Emergency Medical Services. Today’s fire fighters also provide numerous other public services, including emergency medical services (EMS). In cities where the fire department is responsible for EMS, call volumes have soared. This alone is a successful argument against PSOs. What does a PSO do when he/she responds to the scene of a motor vehicle accident—do they provide EMS assistance or do they perform police duties? " What makes Fire and EMS so alike, and makes Fire and LE so different? As it says above, call volumes have soared! So, three things I see here: $$$$ $$$$ and more $$$$ It's always about Power, Politics, and $$$$. spenair wrote: > Link to IAFF statement opposing combining LE with fire before I get called out on my statement. > > > http://www.iaff.org/09News/PDFs/PSOSystems.pdf > > Seems hypocritical as they are as similar if not more so to LE than they are to a medical profession like EMS. > > > >> >>> I agree with Molino, Renny, have fun storming the castle! >>> >>> I am in a fire based EMS system, so I kind of pay attention to things like >>> this. Nationwide, a lot of fire chiefs are jumping onboard with the idea as >>> a way to increase their department's " worth " in front of their city >>> councils. The IAFF is pretty well onboard, too, as far as I can tell. If you make >>> yourself more valuable by being able to do more things, you will be able to >>> get a more and increased budget, job security, etc, instead of a private or >>> 3rd city service competing with you for budget dollars. To get your Texas Fire >>> Commission Firefighter cert, you have to have EMT training as a >>> requirement. Lots of fire departments do first response, with an ambulance agency >>> transporting. It is not that short of a walk from point A to point B for a fire >>> chief who needs to justify his agency's existence to have the council write >>> an ordinance that excludes outside agencies from doing EMS work, so he could >>> take over. I am suprised more haven't done it already in the economic >>> downturn, as budgets have gotten tight. >>> >>> I see what you are trying to say about EMS taking over fire (we make a lot >>> more EMS calls than fire calls) but there you go being idealistic again! Ha >>> Have a good day, my friend! >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> By the way, I am not starting a debate over fire based vs. other systems, >>> just talking. So please don't do that. >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Isn't in interesting that, while railing against combining Fire and LE, They use the argument that " Fire/EMS.... " several times? Such as here: " Emergency Medical Services. Today’s fire fighters also provide numerous other public services, including emergency medical services (EMS). In cities where the fire department is responsible for EMS, call volumes have soared. This alone is a successful argument against PSOs. What does a PSO do when he/she responds to the scene of a motor vehicle accident—do they provide EMS assistance or do they perform police duties? " What makes Fire and EMS so alike, and makes Fire and LE so different? As it says above, call volumes have soared! So, three things I see here: $$$$ $$$$ and more $$$$ It's always about Power, Politics, and $$$$. spenair wrote: > Link to IAFF statement opposing combining LE with fire before I get called out on my statement. > > > http://www.iaff.org/09News/PDFs/PSOSystems.pdf > > Seems hypocritical as they are as similar if not more so to LE than they are to a medical profession like EMS. > > > >> >>> I agree with Molino, Renny, have fun storming the castle! >>> >>> I am in a fire based EMS system, so I kind of pay attention to things like >>> this. Nationwide, a lot of fire chiefs are jumping onboard with the idea as >>> a way to increase their department's " worth " in front of their city >>> councils. The IAFF is pretty well onboard, too, as far as I can tell. If you make >>> yourself more valuable by being able to do more things, you will be able to >>> get a more and increased budget, job security, etc, instead of a private or >>> 3rd city service competing with you for budget dollars. To get your Texas Fire >>> Commission Firefighter cert, you have to have EMT training as a >>> requirement. Lots of fire departments do first response, with an ambulance agency >>> transporting. It is not that short of a walk from point A to point B for a fire >>> chief who needs to justify his agency's existence to have the council write >>> an ordinance that excludes outside agencies from doing EMS work, so he could >>> take over. I am suprised more haven't done it already in the economic >>> downturn, as budgets have gotten tight. >>> >>> I see what you are trying to say about EMS taking over fire (we make a lot >>> more EMS calls than fire calls) but there you go being idealistic again! Ha >>> Have a good day, my friend! >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> By the way, I am not starting a debate over fire based vs. other systems, >>> just talking. So please don't do that. >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I agree with you 100%. Why is everyone so apprehensive? ____________________________________________________________ Medical Transcription Start you medical transcription training now. Click here for info! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=l-KxooWroPLkuTcB6dGg4wAAJz1Yks1zpj\ X5sQbq-VLvPEhbAAQAAAAFAAAAAEJgZT4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAByVnAAAAAA== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Actually, it's all about the s.  Power and politics come from money. -Wes " Evil, Greedy Bastard Lawyer " Ogilvie Re: Re: EMS based Fire Isn't in interesting that, while railing against combining Fire and LE, hey use the argument that " Fire/EMS.... " several times? Such as here: " Emergency Medical Services. Today’s fire fighters also rovide numerous other public services, including mergency medical services (EMS). In cities where the ire department is responsible for EMS, call volumes have oared. This alone is a successful argument against PSOs. hat does a PSO do when he/she responds to the scene f a motor vehicle accident—do they provide EMS ssistance or do they perform police duties? " What makes Fire and EMS so alike, and makes Fire and LE so different? As t says above, call volumes have soared! So, three things I see here: $$$$ $$$ nd more $$$ It's always about Power, Politics, and $$$$. penair wrote: Link to IAFF statement opposing combining LE with fire before I get called out n my statement. http://www.iaff.org/09News/PDFs/PSOSystems.pdf Seems hypocritical as they are as similar if not more so to LE than they are o a medical profession like EMS. > >> I agree with Molino, Renny, have fun storming the castle! >> >> I am in a fire based EMS system, so I kind of pay attention to things like >> this. Nationwide, a lot of fire chiefs are jumping onboard with the idea as >> a way to increase their department's " worth " in front of their city >> councils. The IAFF is pretty well onboard, too, as far as I can tell. If you ake >> yourself more valuable by being able to do more things, you will be able to >> get a more and increased budget, job security, etc, instead of a private or >> 3rd city service competing with you for budget dollars. To get your Texas ire >> Commission Firefighter cert, you have to have EMT training as a >> requirement. Lots of fire departments do first response, with an ambulance gency >> transporting. It is not that short of a walk from point A to point B for a ire >> chief who needs to justify his agency's existence to have the council write >> an ordinance that excludes outside agencies from doing EM S work, so he could >>> take over. I am suprised more haven't done it already in the economic >> downturn, as budgets have gotten tight. >> >> I see what you are trying to say about EMS taking over fire (we make a lot >> more EMS calls than fire calls) but there you go being idealistic again! Ha >> Have a good day, my friend! >> Chris >> >> >> By the way, I am not starting a debate over fire based vs. other systems, >> just talking. So please don't do that. >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Just because most fire-based EMS systems *don't* do EMS well, doesn't mean they *can't* do it well, given the right organizational culture. Sadly, so many of us look to the fire-based EMS systems in the major cities as role models, and they are the *worst* ones to emulate. Very few do EMS well at all. There are a number of smaller, suburban fire-based EMS systems that do a very good job, right there in Texas, and I suspect elsewhere around the country. I make no secret of the fact that I don't think any one person can adequately serve two professional masters. In the end, you have a dual-trained journeyman who is a master at neither profession. I wrote an opinion series on the subject on EMS1.com that generated some good comments. If you'd like to read, and throw your own two cents in, the links are here: Marriage Counseling Part I: The Dysfunctional EMS-Fire Relationship http://www.ems1.com/ems-products/consulting-management/articles/401319-Marriage\ -Counseling-Part-I-The-Dysfunctional-Fire-EMS-Relationship/> Marriage Counseling Part II: The Dysfunctional EMS-Fire Relationship http://www.ems1.com/ems-products/consulting-management/articles/401319-Marriage\ -Counseling-Part-I-The-Dysfunctional-Fire-EMS-Relationship/> Marriage Counseling Part III: Detente In The EMS-Fire Relationship http://www.ems1.com/ems-products/consulting-management/articles/437472-Marriage\ -Counseling-Part-III-D-233-tente-in-the-Dysfunctional-Fire-EMS-Relationship/> lnmolino@... wrote: > > > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 3:56:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > dsmith@... writes: > > The " US and THEM " stuff just gets in the way. > > In 1981 a wise old ex Volunteer Fire Chief who had also been a career guy > told me that the " fundamental " problem in the fire and EMS Game as he > called > it (and I still do) was the " Us's and the Them's " , and that each time you > change the subject of the conversation it seemed that the " Us's and the > Them's changed sides for that topic. > > he was right then and likely will be when my as of yet un conceived (I > hope) Grand Children are talking on this List in 30 years. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant > > LNMolino@... > > (Cell Phone) > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > > " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds > discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 WOO HOO!!!!! Welcome to the light!!!! Just reverse your order...it is about $$$$$$, Power and then politics. And any time someone says it isn't about the $$$, they are just lying or they haven't seen the light yet! Dudley Re: Re: EMS based Fire Isn't in interesting that, while railing against combining Fire and LE, hey use the argument that " Fire/EMS.... " several times? Such as here: " Emergency Medical Services. Today’s fire fighters also rovide numerous other public services, including mergency medical services (EMS). In cities where the ire department is responsible for EMS, call volumes have oared. This alone is a successful argument against PSOs. hat does a PSO do when he/she responds to the scene f a motor vehicle accident—do they provide EMS ssistance or do they perform police duties? " What makes Fire and EMS so alike, and makes Fire and LE so different? As t says above, call volumes have soared! So, three things I see here: $$$$ $$$ nd more $$$ It's always about Power, Politics, and $$$$. penair wrote: Link to IAFF statement opposing combining LE with fire before I get called out n my statement. http://www.iaff.org/09News/PDFs/PSOSystems.pdf Seems hypocritical as they are as similar if not more so to LE than they are o a medical profession like EMS. > >> I agree with Molino, Renny, have fun storming the castle! >> >> I am in a fire based EMS system, so I kind of pay attention to things like >> this. Nationwide, a lot of fire chiefs are jumping onboard with the idea as >> a way to increase their department's " worth " in front of their city >> councils. The IAFF is pretty well onboard, too, as far as I can tell. If you ake >> yourself more valuable by being able to do more things, you will be able to >> get a more and increased budget, job security, etc, instead of a private or >> 3rd city service competing with you for budget dollars. To get your Texas ire >> Commission Firefighter cert, you have to have EMT training as a >> requirement. Lots of fire departments do first response, with an ambulance gency >> transporting. It is not that short of a walk from point A to point B for a ire >> chief who nee ds to justify his agency's existence to have the council write >> an ordinance that excludes outside agencies from doing EMS work, so he could >>> take over. I am suprised more haven't done it already in the economic >> downturn, as budgets have gotten tight. >> >> I see what you are trying to say about EMS taking over fire (we make a lot >> more EMS calls than fire calls) but there you go being idealistic again! Ha >> Have a good day, my friend! >> Chris >> >> >> By the way, I am not starting a debate over fire based vs. other systems, >> just talking. So please don't do that. >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 The PSO concept, except for a few locations has been abandoned because it never works properly. We had a type of this years ago where we fell under a " DPS Director " . The problem besides role ambiguity and command confusion is that one or more functions suffer from a lack of commitment, funding, or both. In my experience, law enforcement takes top priority for funding and positions and Fire and EMS catch what drops down. I'm sure some other cities have different experiences, but the trend has been to move away from the DPS concept in favor of individual or at least combined Fire and EMS departments. Steve This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual (s) to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of The City of Azle or its policies. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please phone Steve Lemming (817)444-7108. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. For more information on The City of Azle, visit our web site at: http://www.cityofazle.org Re: Re: EMS based Fire Isn't in interesting that, while railing against combining Fire and LE, They use the argument that " Fire/EMS.... " several times? Such as here: " Emergency Medical Services. Today's fire fighters also provide numerous other public services, including emergency medical services (EMS). In cities where the fire department is responsible for EMS, call volumes have soared. This alone is a successful argument against PSOs. What does a PSO do when he/she responds to the scene of a motor vehicle accident-do they provide EMS assistance or do they perform police duties? " What makes Fire and EMS so alike, and makes Fire and LE so different? As it says above, call volumes have soared! So, three things I see here: $$$$ $$$$ and more $$$$ It's always about Power, Politics, and $$$$. spenair wrote: > Link to IAFF statement opposing combining LE with fire before I get called out on my statement. > > > http://www.iaff.org/09News/PDFs/PSOSystems.pdf > > Seems hypocritical as they are as similar if not more so to LE than they are to a medical profession like EMS. > > > >> >>> I agree with Molino, Renny, have fun storming the castle! >>> >>> I am in a fire based EMS system, so I kind of pay attention to things like >>> this. Nationwide, a lot of fire chiefs are jumping onboard with the idea as >>> a way to increase their department's " worth " in front of their city >>> councils. The IAFF is pretty well onboard, too, as far as I can tell. If you make >>> yourself more valuable by being able to do more things, you will be able to >>> get a more and increased budget, job security, etc, instead of a private or >>> 3rd city service competing with you for budget dollars. To get your Texas Fire >>> Commission Firefighter cert, you have to have EMT training as a >>> requirement. Lots of fire departments do first response, with an ambulance agency >>> transporting. It is not that short of a walk from point A to point B for a fire >>> chief who needs to justify his agency's existence to have the council write >>> an ordinance that excludes outside agencies from doing EMS work, so he could >>> take over. I am suprised more haven't done it already in the economic >>> downturn, as budgets have gotten tight. >>> >>> I see what you are trying to say about EMS taking over fire (we make a lot >>> more EMS calls than fire calls) but there you go being idealistic again! Ha >>> Have a good day, my friend! >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> By the way, I am not starting a debate over fire based vs. other systems, >>> just talking. So please don't do that. >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 good point, steve and i'm not just saying that cuz i was there (with you) during the " G-monster " DPS cluster we had going on.. btw, i wrote a letter to the editor that was published in JEMS july or august 1999 @ " fire-based ems " which i can't find my copy of. if anyone has a copy please email me off list james_dav_bmcg@.... i'd like to get a copy.the author actually implied that smoke detectors prevent fires (negative, ghost rider) james davis paramedic > Link to IAFF statement opposing combining LE with fire before I get called out on my statement. > > > http://www.iaff. org/09News/ PDFs/PSOSystems. pdf > > Seems hypocritical as they are as similar if not more so to LE than they are to a medical profession like EMS. > > > >> >>> I agree with Molino, Renny, have fun storming the castle! >>> >>> I am in a fire based EMS system, so I kind of pay attention to things like >>> this. Nationwide, a lot of fire chiefs are jumping onboard with the idea as >>> a way to increase their department's " worth " in front of their city >>> councils. The IAFF is pretty well onboard, too, as far as I can tell. If you make >>> yourself more valuable by being able to do more things, you will be able to >>> get a more and increased budget, job security, etc, instead of a private or >>> 3rd city service competing with you for budget dollars. To get your Texas Fire >>> Commission Firefighter cert, you have to have EMT training as a >>> requirement. Lots of fire departments do first response, with an ambulance agency >>> transporting. It is not that short of a walk from point A to point B for a fire >>> chief who needs to justify his agency's existence to have the council write >>> an ordinance that excludes outside agencies from doing EMS work, so he could >>> take over. I am suprised more haven't done it already in the economic >>> downturn, as budgets have gotten tight. >>> >>> I see what you are trying to say about EMS taking over fire (we make a lot >>> more EMS calls than fire calls) but there you go being idealistic again! Ha >>> Have a good day, my friend! >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> By the way, I am not starting a debate over fire based vs. other systems, >>> just talking. So please don't do that. >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 good point, steve and i'm not just saying that cuz i was there (with you) during the " G-monster " DPS cluster we had going on.. btw, i wrote a letter to the editor that was published in JEMS july or august 1999 @ " fire-based ems " which i can't find my copy of. if anyone has a copy please email me off list james_dav_bmcg@.... i'd like to get a copy.the author actually implied that smoke detectors prevent fires (negative, ghost rider) james davis paramedic > Link to IAFF statement opposing combining LE with fire before I get called out on my statement. > > > http://www.iaff. org/09News/ PDFs/PSOSystems. pdf > > Seems hypocritical as they are as similar if not more so to LE than they are to a medical profession like EMS. > > > >> >>> I agree with Molino, Renny, have fun storming the castle! >>> >>> I am in a fire based EMS system, so I kind of pay attention to things like >>> this. Nationwide, a lot of fire chiefs are jumping onboard with the idea as >>> a way to increase their department's " worth " in front of their city >>> councils. The IAFF is pretty well onboard, too, as far as I can tell. If you make >>> yourself more valuable by being able to do more things, you will be able to >>> get a more and increased budget, job security, etc, instead of a private or >>> 3rd city service competing with you for budget dollars. To get your Texas Fire >>> Commission Firefighter cert, you have to have EMT training as a >>> requirement. Lots of fire departments do first response, with an ambulance agency >>> transporting. It is not that short of a walk from point A to point B for a fire >>> chief who needs to justify his agency's existence to have the council write >>> an ordinance that excludes outside agencies from doing EMS work, so he could >>> take over. I am suprised more haven't done it already in the economic >>> downturn, as budgets have gotten tight. >>> >>> I see what you are trying to say about EMS taking over fire (we make a lot >>> more EMS calls than fire calls) but there you go being idealistic again! Ha >>> Have a good day, my friend! >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> By the way, I am not starting a debate over fire based vs. other systems, >>> just talking. So please don't do that. >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 good point, steve and i'm not just saying that cuz i was there (with you) during the " G-monster " DPS cluster we had going on.. btw, i wrote a letter to the editor that was published in JEMS july or august 1999 @ " fire-based ems " which i can't find my copy of. if anyone has a copy please email me off list james_dav_bmcg@.... i'd like to get a copy.the author actually implied that smoke detectors prevent fires (negative, ghost rider) james davis paramedic > Link to IAFF statement opposing combining LE with fire before I get called out on my statement. > > > http://www.iaff. org/09News/ PDFs/PSOSystems. pdf > > Seems hypocritical as they are as similar if not more so to LE than they are to a medical profession like EMS. > > > >> >>> I agree with Molino, Renny, have fun storming the castle! >>> >>> I am in a fire based EMS system, so I kind of pay attention to things like >>> this. Nationwide, a lot of fire chiefs are jumping onboard with the idea as >>> a way to increase their department's " worth " in front of their city >>> councils. The IAFF is pretty well onboard, too, as far as I can tell. If you make >>> yourself more valuable by being able to do more things, you will be able to >>> get a more and increased budget, job security, etc, instead of a private or >>> 3rd city service competing with you for budget dollars. To get your Texas Fire >>> Commission Firefighter cert, you have to have EMT training as a >>> requirement. Lots of fire departments do first response, with an ambulance agency >>> transporting. It is not that short of a walk from point A to point B for a fire >>> chief who needs to justify his agency's existence to have the council write >>> an ordinance that excludes outside agencies from doing EMS work, so he could >>> take over. I am suprised more haven't done it already in the economic >>> downturn, as budgets have gotten tight. >>> >>> I see what you are trying to say about EMS taking over fire (we make a lot >>> more EMS calls than fire calls) but there you go being idealistic again! Ha >>> Have a good day, my friend! >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> By the way, I am not starting a debate over fire based vs. other systems, >>> just talking. So please don't do that. >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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