Re: OK Trooper Dash Cam Released Pulled them over for 5-10 secon...

[Guest guest]

On Wednesday, June 17, 2009 16:43, " Grayson " Grayson902@...> said:

> He pulled over, Dudley. He had a car in front of him that he had to

> watch, and as soon as he cleared that car, he yielded the right-of-way.

> The trooper had zero cause to issue a citation.

I have to agree. The law does not specify an exact time frame that the yield

must take place within. I would expect that the law says that you do so as soon

as it is safely practicable. The EMT driver did that. Therefore, there would

be no grounds for a citation. The judge and prosecutor would laugh at this if

it were brought before them.

Rob

[Guest guest]

Everyone needs to remember that we

are taught to never raise our voices to someone who is already agitated

becuase it just makes things worse, we need to calmly and professionally

talk to someone in a normal tone so that other person can lower his voice to

be able to hear the other person in theory.

***Yes , but try telling an officer when the adrenalin is flowing***

Re: OK Trooper Dash Cam Released Pulled them over for 5-10

secon...

Unfortunately this was a bad situation for all parties involved. From

experience, seeing the video i saw that both parties were at fault. first

the officer should have been more professional and using better judgement in

his manner of reaction. Second the paramedic shouldn't have left the patient

because the driver could have just spoken with the officer exchange

information and continued their journey to the hospital and then later find

out what was the problem at the hospital. Everyone needs to remember that we

are taught to never raise our voices to someone who is already agitated

becuase it just makes things worse, we need to calmly and professionally

talk to someone in a normal tone so that other person can lower his voice to

be able to hear the other person in theory.

[Guest guest]

I think it can be " what-if'd " to death for instance what if he had

actually arrested the paramedic and caused a delay in care because

he's a hot headed cop and if you want an example there was a similar

case in Texas a few years back where the medic did go to jail it was a

dispute over teritory between two companies that ended with one medic

going to jail I don't remember the exact details but it happened right

in front of the patients house if there is an important message that

needs to be relayed it can be done via radio or phone if it was that

important of a " safety " issue then it should have been adressed asap

not after you check out the scene you were already in route to and as

for non-emergent vs. Emergent transport just cause you don't have your

woo-woos on doesn't mean that the pt. Is not emergent there are

services in Texas that don't allow emergency traffic with a patient in

the back for safety reasons my point being that it was not something

that couldn't be adressed later at the hospital it didn't have to be a

national media event

was it handled perfect no but the medic was more in the right than the

trooper in this case I think

Fox news was reporting that the trooper had an unnamed witness in

the car with him that was speculated to be his wife what about her

safety? It was also reported that he recently returned from Iraq that

agression may be warrented and justified in a war zone where you are

being shot at but not in the civil sector with someone on the same

team (public servant) I think at the least anger management and

interagency opperations classes should be punishment for all the

parties involved

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was sent from my iPhone!

N

>

>

> I have said it before and I have said it again...why would you NOT

> pull over if a law enforcement officer pulled in behind with his

> lights on to make a traffic stop?? Unless you were within eye sight

> of the hospital...what if he had seen a safety issue with your unit

> or had information that you needed....

>

> If we advocate not pulling over for a police officer when traveling

> non-emergency with a patient...this type of incident could greatly

> increase.

>

> Dudley

>

> Re: OK Trooper Dash Cam Released Pulled them

> over for 5-10 secon...

>

> So, did the paramedic get arrested? I was not clear looking at the

> video. I am curious as to what vehicle laws in Oklahoma have to say

> on the issue of one emergeny vehicle failing to give right of way to

> another emergency vehicle.?? This will undoubtably have to resolve

> some issues about medical transport and such.? I would say that an

> assault did occur on the Paramedic. The trooper did not immediately

> place the Paramedic under arrest. The was only a verbal discussion

> at the time the trooper first laid hands on the Paramedic.? Why did

> the driver pull over where he did and not take the patient to the

> hospital where a conversation could take place?? If the trooper were

> going to only verbally chastise the driver of the ambulance why did

> it stop on the side of the road so that an incident could take place?

> ?Bad judgement on all parties.? NO good outcome that I can see.

>

> Danny L.

> Owner/NREMT-P

> PETSAR INC.

> (Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response)

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think it can be " what-if'd " to death for instance what if he had

actually arrested the paramedic and caused a delay in care because

he's a hot headed cop and if you want an example there was a similar

case in Texas a few years back where the medic did go to jail it was a

dispute over teritory between two companies that ended with one medic

going to jail I don't remember the exact details but it happened right

in front of the patients house if there is an important message that

needs to be relayed it can be done via radio or phone if it was that

important of a " safety " issue then it should have been adressed asap

not after you check out the scene you were already in route to and as

for non-emergent vs. Emergent transport just cause you don't have your

woo-woos on doesn't mean that the pt. Is not emergent there are

services in Texas that don't allow emergency traffic with a patient in

the back for safety reasons my point being that it was not something

that couldn't be adressed later at the hospital it didn't have to be a

national media event

was it handled perfect no but the medic was more in the right than the

trooper in this case I think

Fox news was reporting that the trooper had an unnamed witness in

the car with him that was speculated to be his wife what about her

safety? It was also reported that he recently returned from Iraq that

agression may be warrented and justified in a war zone where you are

being shot at but not in the civil sector with someone on the same

team (public servant) I think at the least anger management and

interagency opperations classes should be punishment for all the

parties involved

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was sent from my iPhone!

N

>

>

> I have said it before and I have said it again...why would you NOT

> pull over if a law enforcement officer pulled in behind with his

> lights on to make a traffic stop?? Unless you were within eye sight

> of the hospital...what if he had seen a safety issue with your unit

> or had information that you needed....

>

> If we advocate not pulling over for a police officer when traveling

> non-emergency with a patient...this type of incident could greatly

> increase.

>

> Dudley

>

> Re: OK Trooper Dash Cam Released Pulled them

> over for 5-10 secon...

>

> So, did the paramedic get arrested? I was not clear looking at the

> video. I am curious as to what vehicle laws in Oklahoma have to say

> on the issue of one emergeny vehicle failing to give right of way to

> another emergency vehicle.?? This will undoubtably have to resolve

> some issues about medical transport and such.? I would say that an

> assault did occur on the Paramedic. The trooper did not immediately

> place the Paramedic under arrest. The was only a verbal discussion

> at the time the trooper first laid hands on the Paramedic.? Why did

> the driver pull over where he did and not take the patient to the

> hospital where a conversation could take place?? If the trooper were

> going to only verbally chastise the driver of the ambulance why did

> it stop on the side of the road so that an incident could take place?

> ?Bad judgement on all parties.? NO good outcome that I can see.

>

> Danny L.

> Owner/NREMT-P

> PETSAR INC.

> (Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response)

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well the way I see it ........ Two things occurred here. We had a trooper

that wasn't thinking clearly and let his authority get ahead of him. Perhaps

he does believe that someone gave him the finger. That has no bearing on

what his demeanor should have been. He had no way of knowing that their was

a patient in back when he stopped the unit. Once he found that out, he would

have been wiser and more professional to let the unit proceed and have his

superiors contact the EMS administration.

Now the other side of the story is ....... If a law enforcement unit stops

your unit and you don't think you have done anything wrong, that should

throw up a red flag. You had better be humble at the very least and yes sir

and no sir. If you have been around for any length of time you should know

that these guys operate on a shortened fuse when someone gives them lip. Of

course please remember they are armed. Of course if you like being tazed

step up.

I personally think the medic in the back broke the cardinal rule of leaving

his patient unattended. The traffic stop was none of his business. His

partner was fully capable of handling the situation on his own. By exiting

the unit he became part of the problem.

Both sides in this incident could have practiced a little common sense.

How would you have handled this if you had been in your own car. I would bet

you wouldn't give that officer a bunch of static.

Back in the 70's we were bagging two pedi twins taking them to Corpus and

running hot. A local cop stopped us because we didn't notify their city that

we would be running hot through it. My driver got out explained what we had

and we were on our way. When we got home we contacted the local sheriff and

from what I understand the defecation hit the rotating oscillator and from

that day forth we had no more problems.

Henry

Re: OK Trooper Dash Cam Released Pulled them over for

5-10 secon...

The deeper question that should be addressed, and I hope it is by OK DPS,

is what's going on with this trooper emotionally. It's clear that he " lost

it " over relatively nothing.

Is he emotionally capable of wearing a gun and a badge and executing his

duties in a professional manner? Is he suffering from PTSD as a result of

his Iraq experience? IS HE SAFE TO LET OUT ON THE STREETS WITH A GUN?

The escalation began with him and his attitude. He was clearly out of

control. That's scary. Particularly over such a trivial matter. The video

clearly shows him driving at a very high rate of speed when he approached

the ambulance. It also clearly shows that he was not delayed more than 10

seconds because the ambulance was in the way. Then, after the " emergency "

he was going to turned out to be a nothing, his anger even escalated more.

That's indicative of an anger management problem big time.

If the State of Oklahoma's DPS is to have any credibility at all, it must

deal with these questions before this guy goes nuts and does something much

worse.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

GG

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[Guest guest]

In the past, it was unfortunate that I also was assaulted by an officer

while on duty and with a patient on board. yes even though tensions were

high, I remained calm, I still spoke to him softly and gradually raised my

voice so that way he would have to tone down, which in this case, it did

help. His supervsior came to see me and my supervisor and said that charges

could be filed against the officer if I wanted and that he would make sure

that incidents like this sound not happen especially infront of people,

patients family. The big picture is that it makes us all look bad.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:22 AM, rob.davis@... <

rob.davis@...> wrote:

>

>

> On Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:14, " Ruiz "

ruizjorgetexas@...>

> said:

>

> > Everyone needs to remember that we

> > are taught to never raise our voices to someone who is already agitated

> > becuase it just makes things worse, we need to calmly and professionally

> > talk to someone in a normal tone so that other person can lower his voice

> to

> > be able to hear the other person in theory.

>

> Did you watch the same video as the rest of us? I never heard the paramedic

> raise his voice until long after he was physically assaulted. U The

> encounter had already escalated to unilateral violence before the medic

> raised his voice while being assaulted. It is a little unrealistic to not

> expect the voice to raise at that point. And even then he quickly toned it

> back down.

>

> Rob

>

>

>