Re: Re: EMT Job in Metroplex

[Guest guest]

The horse is dead on the SUBJECT LINE

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

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In a message dated 6/11/2009 2:14:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

airmedic51@... writes:

Rob,

It is OBVIOUS you're outnumbered!

Also, to say you're " just a messenger, " I wouldn't want that label on

me------ PERIOD!

I'm getting irritated!------------------------------- Signing

off-----10-9--8--7--6--5--4--3--2--1----------------

---

Subject: Re: EMT Job in Metroplex

To: texasems-l

Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 1:42 PM

Rob,

I think your argument that the past DO/MD dispute amongst doctors and

previous disputes amongst nursing personnel about their differences being

different than the one in EMS is flawed.

By us all referring to each other as " Medics " or " EMT's " we would be

aligning ourselves with the other medical professions. An RN with a BA refers

to

an RN with a BS as a nurse and vice versa much like they both refer to an

LVN as a nurse and she refers to them as nurses. They are all some level of

nurse just as we are all some level of EMT. In this type of discussion an

ECA would be euivalent to a nurses aide. They both have a very limited

scope of care and limited latitude in what they can do and both are usually not

put in the same group in the public eye, with the exception of the ECA's

that are working on ambulances in rural parts of the state.

I would also like to point out to you that " 120 hour wonders " as you refer

to them are no different than the Parrotmedics that come out of some

programs who can only repeat the suggested treatmetn path for an individual

injury but would have no idea how to treat a patient with multiple injuries

with treatments that overlap. So you may think that " 120 hour wonders " are

ruining the profession but parrotmedics are just as much a nuisance.

Respectfully,

M.

The opinions expressed in this post are my personal opinions only.

> On Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:04, " Bledsoe " said:

>

> > Don¹t

> > know, but doctors outgrew the DO/MD thing and nurses have outgrown the

> > 2-year RN/4-year RN/LVN/LPN thing. Maybe EMS can as well...

>

> That seems a bit of a different situation than we have in EMS. Doctors

still don't call nurses doctors. Nurses still don't call Nurses Aides

nurses. Pharmacists still don't call Pharmacy Techs pharmacists. Why would we

be

any different than every other medical profession? I maintain that our

professional growth depends on us being MORE like other medical professions,

not finding yet more ways to do things differently.

>

> Rob

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Rob,

       It is OBVIOUS you're outnumbered!

 

Also, to say you're " just a messenger, " I wouldn't want that label on me------

PERIOD!

 

I'm getting irritated!------------------------------- Signing

off-----10-9--8--7--6--5--4--3--2--1----------------

 

 

 

Subject: Re: EMT Job in Metroplex

To: texasems-l

Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 1:42 PM

Rob,

I think your argument that the past DO/MD dispute amongst doctors and previous

disputes amongst nursing personnel about their differences being different than

the one in EMS is flawed.

By us all referring to each other as " Medics " or " EMT's " we would be aligning

ourselves with the other medical professions. An RN with a BA refers to an RN

with a BS as a nurse and vice versa much like they both refer to an LVN as a

nurse and she refers to them as nurses. They are all some level of nurse just as

we are all some level of EMT. In this type of discussion an ECA would be

euivalent to a nurses aide. They both have a very limited scope of care and

limited latitude in what they can do and both are usually not put in the same

group in the public eye, with the exception of the ECA's that are working on

ambulances in rural parts of the state.

I would also like to point out to you that " 120 hour wonders " as you refer to

them are no different than the Parrotmedics that come out of some programs who

can only repeat the suggested treatmetn path for an individual injury but would

have no idea how to treat a patient with multiple injuries with treatments that

overlap. So you may think that " 120 hour wonders " are ruining the profession but

parrotmedics are just as much a nuisance.

Respectfully,

M.

The opinions expressed in this post are my personal opinions only.

> On Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:04, " Bledsoe " said:

>

> > Don¹t

> > know, but doctors outgrew the DO/MD thing and nurses have outgrown the

> > 2-year RN/4-year RN/LVN/LPN thing. Maybe EMS can as well...

>

> That seems a bit of a different situation than we have in EMS. Doctors still

don't call nurses doctors. Nurses still don't call Nurses Aides nurses.

Pharmacists still don't call Pharmacy Techs pharmacists. Why would we be any

different than every other medical profession? I maintain that our professional

growth depends on us being MORE like other medical professions, not finding yet

more ways to do things differently.

>

> Rob

>

[Guest guest]

I completely understand where you are going with all that. I just disagree with

the analogies. 10 week tech-school medics aside, the education of the well

educated paramedic is collegiate, and often an associates degree. That equates

them with the LVN or RN on the education scale. Compare that with the EMT,

whose training is measured barely into three digit hours (one-tenth that of a

paramedic), and that equates to the level of a nurses aide. So honestly

compared, my analogy stands.

Whether we call everyone an EMT, or call everyone a paramedic is semantics. You

can remove the semantic distinction, but the truth remains that they are still

very different. Different by education. Different by clinical sophistication.

Different jobs altogether.

I certainly agree with you, though, that the state of paramedic education is as

horribly inadequate as the EMT training level, and every bit as responsible for

the majority of the problems EMS faces today.

Rob

On Thursday, June 11, 2009 13:42, " C. Meyer " meyercm2@...> said:

> Rob,

>

> I think your argument that the past DO/MD dispute amongst doctors and previous

> disputes amongst nursing personnel about their differences being different

than

> the one in EMS is flawed.

>

> By us all referring to each other as " Medics " or " EMT's " we would be aligning

> ourselves with the other medical professions. An RN with a BA refers to an RN

with

> a BS as a nurse and vice versa much like they both refer to an LVN as a nurse

and

> she refers to them as nurses. They are all some level of nurse just as we are

all

> some level of EMT. In this type of discussion an ECA would be euivalent to a

> nurses aide. They both have a very limited scope of care and limited latitude

in

> what they can do and both are usually not put in the same group in the public

eye,

> with the exception of the ECA's that are working on ambulances in rural parts

of

> the state.

>

> I would also like to point out to you that " 120 hour wonders " as you refer to

them

> are no different than the Parrotmedics that come out of some programs who can

only

> repeat the suggested treatmetn path for an individual injury but would have no

> idea how to treat a patient with multiple injuries with treatments that

overlap.

> So you may think that " 120 hour wonders " are ruining the profession but

> parrotmedics are just as much a nuisance.

>

> Respectfully,

> M.

>

> The opinions expressed in this post are my personal opinions only.

>

>> On Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:04, " Bledsoe " said:

>>

>> > Don¹t

>> > know, but doctors outgrew the DO/MD thing and nurses have outgrown the

>> > 2-year RN/4-year RN/LVN/LPN thing. Maybe EMS can as well...

>>

>> That seems a bit of a different situation than we have in EMS. Doctors still

>> don't call nurses doctors. Nurses still don't call Nurses Aides nurses.

>> Pharmacists still don't call Pharmacy Techs pharmacists. Why would we be any

>> different than every other medical profession? I maintain that our

professional

>> growth depends on us being MORE like other medical professions, not finding

yet

>> more ways to do things differently.

>>

>> Rob

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Thursday, June 11, 2009 14:12, " learningmedic " airmedic51@...>

said:

> Rob,

>        It is OBVIOUS you're outnumbered!

If that's the best argument you can put forward, then you fail. This isn't a

popularity contest. It's an intelligent discussion of the profession. Or, at

least it should be. Comments like yours do not constructively contribute to

that dialogue.

Rob

[Guest guest]

No argument----------------JUST FACT !

 

HAVE A NICE DAY !

 

Subject: Re: Re: EMT Job in Metroplex

To: texasems-l

Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 3:03 PM

On Thursday, June 11, 2009 14:12, " learningmedic "

said:

> Rob,

>        It is OBVIOUS you're outnumbered!

If that's the best argument you can put forward, then you fail. This isn't a

popularity contest. It's an intelligent discussion of the profession. Or, at

least it should be. Comments like yours do not constructively contribute to that

dialogue.

Rob

[Guest guest]

Rob ,

You once told me that you thought well of me because I understood what you were

saying. I still understand what you're saying, but just like back then, you are

butchering the argument and muddling your point. You make it sound like anyone

with less education than you is a lesser person and undeserving of being called

medic. That kind of mumbo jumbo will meet resistance every time.

We can all, I think, agree that the current state of prehospital EMS education

is insufficient, and that cookie cutter medics mostly cannot match the skills of

those with more education and greater experience. However, that which should be

and that which is are not the same. We have what we have, and we are forced to

do the best we can with it.

They've tossed you off lists and boards for a dozen years and all around the

globe because you don't know how to verbalize an argument without appearing like

an arrogant p?!$k. Your rants lack cohesiveness and clarity, and are

counterproductive. Scroll back a few messages and read the reply Bob Kellow

wrote on this thread. If you pay attention to a good argument maybe you will

learn something. Until then, drop it and move on. You're making a fool of

yourself. Again.

--