Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Welcome, Bev. Too bad you had to find us, good that you did. --- bhelent rex_bevthoman@...> wrote: > Anyways my hubby was recently > diagnosed with diabetes and we're trying to get it under control, and > we have 2 teenage kids that I'm concerned about them getting it (they > eat far too much sugar). OK, but eating sugar isn't the whole problem, eating carbs (which includes all sugars) is more to the point. Besides which it's the build up of belly fat in a person that has the inherited predisposition to develop Type 2 diabetes that's the REAL problem. Of course too much food, particularly carbs may push your kids over the edge sometime. The changes we're making for my husband has > to be good for the whole family though. Very true. Ted Quick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Hi, Bev...your original intro didn't come up on my computer but from what I read of it tacked onto this response by Ted, I'm making some assumptions about what you know of diabetes control so I'm going to append my " standard newby letter " here. You'll find lots of helpful information there - enough to keep you busy for a while. Please also follow the links - there's a wealth of info there, too. First of all, let me refer you to two of the best books about diabetes. Read 'em and you'll learn a lot: The first one is called " The First Year, Type Two Diabetes, An Essential Guide for the Newly Diagnosed " by Gretchen Becker. Gretchen is a list member and her book is an excellent guide. It's in paperback and available online from Amazon if your local bookstore doesn't have it. The second book is called " Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solutions " by K. Bernstein, M.D. You can get it from the library but it's such a good reference that you really should have it in your home library. Dr. Bernstein is a longtime type 1 who controls his diabetes using a lowcarb diet as well as insulin.. Many of us - both type 1 and 2 -- on this list have found great success using his plan or a modified version thereof. . And here's the URL to Dr. Bernstein's website, where there's lots of good stuff: http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/index.shtml These two books will give you good basic information on the ins and outs of diabetes management. I would further refer you to an excellent informational website titled " " What They Don't Tell You About Diabetes " http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/ If it isn't there for some reason, let me know and I can email you the contents -- I have it in my archives now. I would also refer you to Mendosa's website, where there's a wealth of diabetic information and good links. He also has an online diabetes newsletter which is very good. It's also an excellent source for information about the GI index (glycemic index). www.mendosa.com There's one thing that's sure to make BGs rise and that's carbohydrates. Cutting out high GI carbs is an excellent way to control your BGs and the more you cut, the better. Most of us find that the " whites " -- breads, cereals and pastas, in fact anything made with grain - will raise our BGs. Also, rice and potatoes will do the same. And of course, cakes and cookies and sweets of all kinds, including fruits and fruit juices. Watch out for " low calorie " foods; often they're higher in carbs. Learn to read food labels. Dr. Bernstein recommends about 40 carbs a day total. This is really only for the dedictated low carber and IMHO hard to maintain over the long run. However, I've read that the average American eats about 300 carbs a day, so the truth is somewhere in between. The best thing you can do for yourself (if you haven't already) is buy a meter and use it FREQUENTLY. At the beginning you want to learn how different foods affect your BG and to do this you need to eat one food at a time, testing first...then test one and two hours afterwards. Weigh out the amounts and keep good notes. You'll use up a lot of strips in the beginning but the rewards are definitely worth the expense and bother because in the end, you'll know what foods to avoid and which are okay. Diabetes is a very individual disease and we often say YMMV - " your mileage may vary " -- what works for one may not work for another. You want to aim for postprandial (two hours after meal) BG of 120. Keeping your BGs between 70 and 140 are your goals. If you can do this longterm, you can probably avoid the dreaded consequences of longterm poor BG control...and I'm sure I don't have to list those for you. (I will if you want, though). Here's my own list of pretty lowcarb veggies: Spinach Cauliflower Broccoli Summer squash (zucchini, crookneck) Spaghetti squash Mushrooms Asparagus Greenbeans Cabbage Sauerkraut And of course lettuce and avocados which aren't a veggie but a fruit .but they're definitely lowcarb. I have a large mixed lettuce salad with avocado every night with dinner. You can eat a reasonable portion (4-6 ounces) of meat, chicken, fish without problem; it's all protein, no carbs. Berries are the lowest carb fruit but even so, you should eat them very sparingly. Here's the website of the USDA, which you'll find very helpful. It has carbs, calories, protein, etc. http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl It's helpful to have a food scale. A cup measure isn't nearly so accurate. I use a Salter scale. It weighs in both grams and ounces and cost me somewhere around $35. I got mine at a local gourmet shop but they're available online too. Just do a Google search for " Salter food scales " . The A1C is a test that measures your average BG for a three-month period with slightly more weight given to the latest month. All diabetics should have this test every three months. And you should ask for, and keep, copies of all your lab reports. Oh, here's a link to a site that explains some definitions of diabetic terminology: http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/P/Pancreas.html Good luck. And keep those questions coming. There's a really steep learning curve at the beginning of your diabetes education but hang in there -- it will all make sense eventually. And remember -- the only stupid question is the one you didn't ask. Vicki, diabetic since 1997, A1Cs consistently under 6 for a long time, no complications, planning on forever no complications, smile. Re: Intro > Welcome, Bev. Too bad you had to find us, good that you did. > > --- bhelent rex_bevthoman@...> wrote: >> Anyways my hubby was recently >> diagnosed with diabetes and we're trying to get it under control, and >> we have 2 teenage kids that I'm concerned about them getting it (they >> eat far too much sugar). > > OK, but eating sugar isn't the whole problem, eating carbs (which > includes all sugars) is more to > the point. Besides which it's the build up of belly fat in a person > that has the inherited > predisposition to develop Type 2 diabetes that's the REAL problem. Of > course too much food, > particularly carbs may push your kids over the edge sometime. > > The changes we're making for my husband has >> to be good for the whole family though. > > Very true. > > > Ted Quick > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Hi Bev, Did your husband take any steroidal drugs after the accident? They can really elevate blood glucose levels. Just a thought... ~a In a message dated 12/12/2005 5:41:38 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rex_bevthoman@... writes: Thanks for the welcome Vicki and Ted, Some of your comments bring up some of my concerns. My husband has no family history of type 2, only a cousin with type 1, and he's less that 0.1 % overweight according to BMI. He had a car accident in June that his body just wasn't healing from that prompted his Dr to run test " to see what's going on " . I've read a little about LADA, and I wonder if that might be his case. Is that the same thing as Type 1.5? Right now he's on Metformin and Avandia and the BG's are still averaging 200. We have talked with his Dr. about trying insulin, but for now we're sticking with the oral meds because he's active duty Navy and if he goes on insulin it will probably mean a medical discharge from the Navy, but once he reaches the 18 year mark in his career (which is coming up in March) they will let him finish his Navy career (even if he goes on insulin) at 20, which is a better career move. My concern is that if we don't get these #'s down, is he going to have irreversible damage to some internal organs? Personally I don't care a whole lot about his career if that meens sacrificing his health, he can always get another job, and even if he can't what good is it to retire from the Navy and be on dialysis, a double amputee or dead? Also in response to meters, my hubby has been using the Precision Xtra since he was diagnosed, I guess it's an ok meter (of course we haven't used any other), but we went to a Diabetes self management class last week and the Diabetes Educator is helping us get through some red tape to get a Onetouch Ultrasmart, with a cable to download to the computer. She said that this thing is kind of like a palm pilot and has software that you download that makes graphs and charts. She said for a technically minded person like him it would be a great tool to help him get control of his BG's (I hope it's as great as she says). Bev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Thanks for the welcome Vicki and Ted, Some of your comments bring up some of my concerns. My husband has no family history of type 2, only a cousin with type 1, and he's less that 0.1 % overweight according to BMI. He had a car accident in June that his body just wasn't healing from that prompted his Dr to run test " to see what's going on " . I've read a little about LADA, and I wonder if that might be his case. Is that the same thing as Type 1.5? Right now he's on Metformin and Avandia and the BG's are still averaging 200. We have talked with his Dr. about trying insulin, but for now we're sticking with the oral meds because he's active duty Navy and if he goes on insulin it will probably mean a medical discharge from the Navy, but once he reaches the 18 year mark in his career (which is coming up in March) they will let him finish his Navy career (even if he goes on insulin) at 20, which is a better career move. My concern is that if we don't get these #'s down, is he going to have irreversible damage to some internal organs? Personally I don't care a whole lot about his career if that meens sacrificing his health, he can always get another job, and even if he can't what good is it to retire from the Navy and be on dialysis, a double amputee or dead? Also in response to meters, my hubby has been using the Precision Xtra since he was diagnosed, I guess it's an ok meter (of course we haven't used any other), but we went to a Diabetes self management class last week and the Diabetes Educator is helping us get through some red tape to get a Onetouch Ultrasmart, with a cable to download to the computer. She said that this thing is kind of like a palm pilot and has software that you download that makes graphs and charts. She said for a technically minded person like him it would be a great tool to help him get control of his BG's (I hope it's as great as she says). Bev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 At 02:51 PM 12/12/05, bhelent wrote: >thing as Type 1.5? Right now he's on Metformin and Avandia and the >BG's are still averaging 200. We have talked with his Dr. about >trying insulin, but for now we're sticking with the oral meds >because he's active duty Navy and if he goes on insulin it will >probably mean a medical discharge from the Navy, but once he reaches >the 18 year mark in his career (which is coming up in March) they >will let him finish his Navy career (even if he goes on insulin) at >20, which is a better career move. Odd thinking, that the better control of his diabetes he has the more likely they are to discharge him. But of course we're talking military, and they're as far if not further behind on their thinking about diabetes (as well as other things...this spoken as a former Air Force wife) as most doctors. You may have seen Vicki's " newby " letter already. It has loads of good information. You will also learn about controlling BG by controlling how many carbs you eat. The oral meds are fine, but not magical. Cutting back on foods that are heavy in carbohydrates is, in my opinion, the key to controlling Blood Glucose. This includes so-called " white carbs " such as bread and potatoes (all types) and just about any grain or things made with grain. Fruit is also high in carbs, as are corn, peas and winter squash. I think it's a good idea to cut back on such things totally and then, when BG's are where you want them, you can try adding small amounts of some of them back (like a small serving of fruit) and check to see if they're raising BG's too high. >My concern is that if we don't >get these #'s down, is he going to have irreversible damage to some >internal organs? Often there is some damage even before we're diagnosed. I understand, however, that gaining good control can s-l-o-w-l-y cause reversal of some of that. He should have had (or should have) a check of kidney function, diabetic eye exam, test for PN, etc. to see where he is right now. You didn't give us any information about what he eats (but if he's seen a " diabetes educator " I'd be willing to bet that you've been told about the ADA (American Diabetes Association) diet which most here feel is too high in carbs) what his HbA1C blood test is (he should have had one done by now and again every 3 months) and you should always get a copy of the results of any lab work he has done), if he's exercising, etc. I'm sure some of that info would help the experts here offer some meaningful suggestions. >(snip)... She said for a technically minded person like him it would >be a great tool to help him get control of his BG's (I hope it's as >great as she says). Bev But don't forget the glucometer is just what she said...a tool. IT doesn't help you lower or control BG's but lets you know what your own efforts produce in the way of BG results. sky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 > He had a car accident in June that his body just > wasn't healing from that prompted his Dr > to run test " to see what's going on " . ... Right > now he's on Metformin and Avandia and the > BG's are still averaging 200. Metformin does not work very quickly, Bev. It took me about a year to get down from HbA1c 13% to 5% on metformin. The original safety report for metformin gave 2 years as the design period for getting down to below 7% so your husband has time. > My concern is that if we don't get these #'s down, > is he going to have irreversible damage to some > internal organs? Personally I don't care a whole > lot about his career if that meens sacrificing his > health, he can always get another job, and even > if he can't what good is it to retire from the Navy > and be on dialysis, a double amputee or dead? That does not happen very quickly, either. It could take 20-30 years of total neglect to get into that condition. He is getting treatment and is being examined regularly so there is little chance that he will get to the state of " irreversible damage " unnoticed. His doctor should have established a baseline for his eyes, kidneys, lower extremity nerves and heart by now. If they are all still in good shape then you can reduce your alert status from " red " to " orange " ! Anxiety is not a good basis for making diabetes decisions, solid information is always a better bet! I wish you a worry-free Christmas! T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Welcome, Bev. Many people have found that ignoring the ADA diet(s) and cutting way back on carbs is the best way to reduce BG numbers. My husband was diagnosed in April of this year with an A1c of over 10. He is now on only 500mg of Metformin (which I'm not sure has any effect). Because we switched medicine I'm not sure what his A1c is now (it was 5.3 on 5mg Glyburide BID) but his 30-day average on his meter is 111 (and I do test after meals as well as fasting and before meals). My thought when he was diagnosed was you can't handle carbs, well, DUH, don't eat them! So I wandered around on the web and found this forum and the Bernstein forum for support and recipes. We had support from his sister who remembered his mother on a low carb diet. Because there is so much type 2 diabetes in their family she is on a fairly low carb diet now herself, or at least a low glycemic diet, as protection, even though tests show she is normal. I find the ADA information totally unbelievable and most diabetic cookbooks worthless. I understand they claim that heart disease is the biggest problem of diabetics and hence they put diabetics on a low fat and hence high carb diet. It just doesn't make sense to me (and I'm a scientist and he's an engineer). Why don't they assume the increased heart disease is due to the high blood glucose which apparently most American diabetics suffer from due to this diet? His mantra is " anything white " is poison, by which he means not only sugar but also things like white flour and rice and potatoes. He is not on an extremely low carb diet -- he eats about 90 to 100 grams of carbs a day. His only grains are very carefully selected to be low carb, very healthy and difficult to digest. Evening meals are meat, low carb veggies, and a big vegetable salad. He does eat limited low glycemic and low sugar fruits like apples. Snacks are often nuts or half an apple and peanut butter. About half of his breakfasts are now omelettes. During the period your husband is getting under control he may need to use a lot of test strips. Do the experiment and test his blood glucose 1 hour after a meal. Then 2 hours. Learn what various foods do to the blood sugar. It's easy to do. We don't have a lot of trouble maintaining the diet and we have done quite a bit of traveling and eating out as well. He's also lost weight on this diet without trying. Exercise is also supposed to be good and we were exercising, but winter has arrived now so we need some new exercise program. > Hi all, my name is Bev, I tried to introduce myself before, but it > came back as undeliverable so forgive me if that one ends up going > through and then this one also goes. Anyways my hubby was recently > diagnosed with diabetes and we're trying to get it under control, and > we have 2 teenage kids that I'm concerned about them getting it (they > eat far too much sugar). The changes we're making for my husband has > to be good for the whole family though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Well, now, I don't think it takes 30 or 40 years of poor control to accumulate diabetic complications, . You can get them with as little as 2 or 3 years of poor control. YMMV. You'd be dead way before 30 or 40 years of poor control. Well, I guess it can't make you dead if you're already there, smile. But of course, it's not funny. And far too many people die of diabetes related complications at an early age. Vicki Re: Intro > > >> He had a car accident in June that his body just >> wasn't healing from that prompted his Dr >> to run test " to see what's going on " . ... Right >> now he's on Metformin and Avandia and the >> BG's are still averaging 200. > > Metformin does not work very quickly, Bev. It took > me about a year to get down from HbA1c 13% to 5% > on metformin. The original safety report for metformin > gave 2 years as the design period for getting down to > below 7% so your husband has time. > >> My concern is that if we don't get these #'s down, >> is he going to have irreversible damage to some >> internal organs? Personally I don't care a whole >> lot about his career if that meens sacrificing his >> health, he can always get another job, and even >> if he can't what good is it to retire from the Navy >> and be on dialysis, a double amputee or dead? > > That does not happen very quickly, either. It could > take 20-30 years of total neglect to get into that > condition. He is getting treatment and is being > examined regularly so there is little chance that he > will get to the state of " irreversible damage " unnoticed. > His doctor should have established a baseline for his > eyes, kidneys, lower extremity nerves and heart by now. > If they are all still in good shape then you can reduce > your alert status from " red " to " orange " ! > > Anxiety is not a good basis for making diabetes > decisions, solid information is always a better bet! > > I wish you a worry-free Christmas! > > T. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 > Metformin does not work very quickly, Bev. It took > me about a year to get down from HbA1c 13% to 5% > on metformin. The original safety report for metformin > gave 2 years as the design period for getting down to > below 7% so your husband has time wow, is this true? If so, this is good to hear. I take 1000 mg metformin twice a day, plus Actos. I have been feeling like I am working so hard on keeping carbs to a minimum ala Bernstein and while I have seen alot of improvement since I was diagnosed in July, I can't seem to get my fasting under about 126 and between meals to about 105-115, with an occasional low of 100. Does your comment mean that over time Metformin will kick in even more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 > > > Metformin does not work very quickly, Bev. It took > > me about a year to get down from HbA1c 13% to 5% > > on metformin. The original safety report for metformin > > gave 2 years as the design period for getting down to > > below 7% so your husband has time > > wow, is this true? If so, this is good to hear. I take 1000 mg > metformin twice a day, plus Actos. I have been feeling like I am > working so hard on keeping carbs to a minimum ala Bernstein and while I > have seen alot of improvement since I was diagnosed in July, I can't > seem to get my fasting under about 126 and between meals to about > 105-115, with an occasional low of 100. Does your comment mean that > over time Metformin will kick in even more? > For what it is worth, I have been on 2000 mg metformin for about 15 years and to this day almost never have a fasting number less than 120. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Oh, Hell. I guess as with everything else around Diabetes, YMMV. Thanks for the reality check.(smile) On Monday, December 12, 2005, at 09:07 PM, Rotramel wrote: > > For what it is worth, I have been on 2000 mg metformin for about 15 > years and to this day almost never have a fasting number less than > 120. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 > Does your comment mean that > over time Metformin will kick in even more? I understand that it varies between individuals. Some need to increase the dose as time goes by, some are able to reduce it. Some whose kidneys deteriorate have to go off it altogether. That is one of the reasons why patients on metformin should be monitored regularly for serum creatinine clearance. The published figures are less than 1.4 mg/dl for women and less than 1.5 mg/dl for men to provide adequate kidney clearance of metformin. I am a long-term weight cycler and go up and down from 165 lb to 205 lb in a 2-3 year period. At 165 lb I manage on only 250 mg metformin/day, at 185 lb I am on 500 mg/day and at 205 lb I have to increase to 1000mg/day. Doing this, I have been able to hold a pretty constant HbA1c of 5.5% for 6 years now. I have different sets of pants for the different weights and I can correlate my pants size with my metformin dose: pants too tight, time to increase the dose; pants too loose, time to cut back again! My private explanation for this is that metformin works on the liver and the more abdominal fat I have, the less metformin actually gets to my liver (the same principle as insulin resistance). Regards T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 > Well, now, I don't think it takes 30 or 40 > years of poor control to accumulate diabetic > complications, . You can get them with as > little as 2 or 3 years of poor control. YMMV. > You'd be dead way before 30 or 40 years of poor > control. I didn't write anything about " 30 or 40 years of poor control " , I wrote " 20-30 years of total neglect " ! And we weren't discussing " getting " complications but of progressing to the stage at which dialysis, double amputation or death results. Do you have any figures on how many diabetics under regular treatment get to that state in 2-3 years from onset, especially the ones with an alert wife monitoring progress? I don't believe in exaggerating the rate of progression just to scare people, that gets them into the condition at which they are frightened to eat a slice of Christmas cake for fear that their legs will get cut off. This thing is not to be taken lightly, that's for sure, but from Bev's description of the treatment her husband is getting, I felt that she sounded much more anxious than the circumstances warranted. > And far too many people die of diabetes > related complications at an early age. Sure, any death at an early age from anything is one too many, but do you have any statistics to support that statement, Vicki? Didn't we discuss this once before? You might remember that I did look for some figures and found that there are not very many available. That appeared to me to be be because diabetes is very seldom given as the cause of death on death certificates. The physician might give " hemorrhagic stroke as a consequence of breast cancer " as the cause of death but very seldom takes the trouble to decide whether the condition was aggravated by diabetes or not, far less give his opinion on the degree of BG control, any more than he would write on the death certificate that the condition had been aggravated by taking 3 hours to get the patient into a hospital, for example. What other source could there be for such statistics other than death certificates? But I know that this is in your professional area, Vicki, and I am wondering if you have come across some solid data in the mean time? Regards T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Hello, Martha. Sounds like you have a nice, big, furry family. Sorry about your diagnosis. Good luck getting on disability. Take care. J in East Northcentral Minnesota http://sisypheanranch.blogspot.com/ 'Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Welcome Martha I'm sorry you have to be here, but it's a great group. /Mi Intro My name is Martha, I was recently diagnosed (last monday actually lol) but have been more or less home bound since october when this flare started. I was a 911 operator for the last 9 years but am currently in the process of filing a disability claim. I am a practicing Wiccan and mom to 4 dogs, 8 cats and 4 rats . I'm also in the process of starting a business that I can work from home so I don't have to stay on disability ... guess that's about it for now. I look forward to getting to know y'all. Martha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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