Re: lack of compassion/Helen

[Guest guest]

Helen

I'm sorry, but I don't remember the age of your daughter? Is she married?

Children?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean,

Yes, she is married, 21 years old (will be 22 in March), and has one child.

For about a month and a half she kicked her husband out for abuse, but it

was not physical. It was verbal. As his mom described the situation, yes, he

insulted her, but as he was insulted in the first place by her. She called

it financial abuse because he didn't have her handle money - when she was on

her own, managing her own money, she didn't have any food at the end of the

month. When we visited, she wanted us to take food because she didn't have

any. We just took the meal we planned to share with her at the time, and

that was it.

Anyway, I think he has a better head than she does, and not responding to

their rages is certainly very difficult.

Our grandson is going to be 3 in a couple of weeks, and we barely know him.

Since our relationship with Liz has been not very frequent, we haven't seen

him much either. However, he is developmentally very delayed, and I've seen

him in a somewhat tantrummy mode. She asked if I could babysit him during

the school day, and I said that would make it impossible to homeschool my 12

and 13 year old, so I would have to say no.

Helen

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of cascorsam@...

Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:45 PM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: lack of compassion/Helen

Helen

I'm sorry, but I don't remember the age of your daughter? Is she married?

Children?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Helen

So I guess she lives near you if she wanted you to babaysit. Do you think

your grandson is developmentally delayed due to her BPism? Do you think she

is ignoring his needs or screaming at him all the time in typical BP fits?

I was reading on another BP site that it is believed more and more that the

majority of them with BP will grow out of a lot of the outward manifestations

of it as they get older. Perhaps they simply losse the energy to rage as

they get older. Or perhaps something clicks in their brains and they settle

down a bit. With mine, I still see weird thinking from time to time, but not

as much as I did just a year ago, but then hubby is working and she doesn't

appear to be as stressed. Do you think stress has to do with setting off the

symptoms?

I admire your ability to stand your ground with her. Do you think it has

helped her to behave in a more mature manner?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean,

I am looking at my response, and I am in a rambly mood right now. I guess I

miss the daughter that I don't really have right now, the one I wish I could

have a good relationship with like I have with my younger kids.

I think her BPism may have something to do with Freddie's delayed

development, but I can't be sure. When he was tiny they always interpreted

his screams, etc., before he had a chance to make clear what he wanted - and

then they wondered why he wouldn't talk. When he " wanted " food the

pediatrician said he wasn't ready for, they gave it to him anyway because it

" made him happy " . Anyway, I don't see any kind of healthy channeling of a

child's impulses on her part or on 's part either. I've seen her give

him coffee to drink at the ripe old age of two.

I also know that one time she told us that he messed up a drawing she was

doing (grabbed some pastels and marked her drawing) and she hit him and got

mad. 's mom has told me that they have seen welts on him, probably

from her hitting him.

One time we were at her home, he fell down, and her first reaction was to

start to yell at him. Then she corrected herself and calmed down - but

didn't comfort him like a mom normally would.

Poor kid!

I don't know if my limits have helped Liz be more mature in her manner. It

has in her relationship with me, but when I talk to her mother in law, with

whom she lived for a couple of years, it sounded like the same kid we had

here at age 16. It didn't sound like she had matured a bit.

I know one thing. When we visited her at the RTCs, she could be very

pleasant and engaging for the first hour and a half or so. Then we'd start

to see through the chinks, and by the second day of the visit she was

incredibly furious at us because her mask wouldn't hold. I am not letting

her know that I see that there are chinks in her demeanor to me. I see them,

all right, but I don't let her know because of two reasons:

I don't want to get yelled at - yes, I am walking on eggshells still

I don't think it will do any good to alienate her unless she wants help. If

she doesn't see it for herself, it won't do any good.

We had an interesting situation here. She was kicked out of her home by her

husband because of doing very raunchy emailing with a male. Of course, he

hit the roof and called it internet dating. He was also calling from

California quite a bit, as they saw on their caller ID.

Liz says she was just on the phone a lot with her birth father, in Oregon.

Well, the difference in states doesn't seem to bother her a whole lot.

However, it is a big inconsistency! Also, I have a hard time believing that

he is really that interested in her welfare. However, who am I to say?

She also said was lying, etc. However, he showed me hard copies of

the emails, and they were real and disgusting enough I just perused them to

verify his truthfulness and was grossed out. Next thing I knew, they were in

a low income housing apartment and she filed for spousal abuse and got a

restraining order against him. She called me and told me they had been

separated 6 weeks. He told me he had seen her the night before.

Anyway, have the symptoms gone away? I don't think so. We keep our

relationship courteous and artificially pleasant for our own self

preservation by having carefully choreographed visits with her at

preappointed times and places. That helps a lot.

She will be 22 in 2 weeks. I have no idea how to expect her to develop.

However, her birth mother died at 40 or so, after having extramarital

affairs that ruined her life, and running into a lamppost with her car and

causing injuries she never healed from. Her mom said that she always had

some kind of mental disconnect, probably a clinical mental health issue, but

never was diagnosed with anything (probably they didn't check it out).

I think a lot of times we as Christians are a bit dishonest with these

things and dont' want to deal with the psychological community because we

don't want to hear what they have to say about this issue. We provide loving

environments with firm and caring boundaries, pray for our children, and

sometimes this happens. Then we get very frustrated and figure God will take

care of it if we pray and fast enough, if we are loving enough, etc. Well,

he hasn't done that so far, and it has been hard to hang on to my faith.

However, I realize that she has had the ability to make a choice and decide

whether to go with the treatment that was offered and the help that was

forced upon her or to reject it. She made her choice, and I can't do any

more beyond that. We still pray for her, but I am no longer spending

sleepless nights over her.

Well, I am just venting here, kind of unrelated to your question. I haven't

seen any change in her, and don't know what to expect.

I love her, but I can't get really close.

Helen

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of cascorsam@...

Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 8:47 AM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: lack of compassion/Helen

Helen

So I guess she lives near you if she wanted you to babaysit. Do you think

your grandson is developmentally delayed due to her BPism? Do you think

she

is ignoring his needs or screaming at him all the time in typical BP fits?

I was reading on another BP site that it is believed more and more that the

majority of them with BP will grow out of a lot of the outward

manifestations

of it as they get older. Perhaps they simply losse the energy to rage as

they get older. Or perhaps something clicks in their brains and they

settle

down a bit. With mine, I still see weird thinking from time to time, but

not

as much as I did just a year ago, but then hubby is working and she doesn't

appear to be as stressed. Do you think stress has to do with setting off

the

symptoms?

I admire your ability to stand your ground with her. Do you think it has

helped her to behave in a more mature manner?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Helen

As far as your faith goes, don't discount it. I, personally, am not

particularly religious. I was raised Catholic and have searched out every

religion

known to man from Eckancar, Christian Science, Pentecostal, other Protestant

religions, Buddhism, etc. I have too many questions, that the omnipotence of

God cannot answer. But, I stray.

My daughter's hysband who in my earlier posts months ago, I refered to as

" dirtbag " because he was living off her and not working, doing drugs, etc.

Well, his mother, who in her younger days, was not a parental role model by any

stretch of the imagination ( did drugs herself in front of er kids), has been

a Born Again Christian for about 15 years now. She has been praying for

this son for years seemingly to no avail.

Well, when he got out of jail this time (again for drug use), he found a job

with a company who is family owned. He has become friends with the son who

is married with a child and owns a house. The father seems to have taken

Will under his wing and this kid now loves going to work. He even went with

pneumonia and 103 fever. Has not missed a day so far. I told my daughter that

this is definitely Divine intervention at work here. This kid has NEVER held

a job in his 25 yr old life. SO there may be something to be said for God

and faith.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean,

I think stress has everything to do with their extreme behavior. My daughter

used to rage, and viewed me as all her problems. Then, she would lash out at

her boyfriend. Neither of us took to it well. The raging has just about

disappeared.

Someone also mentioned some of the behaviors (was it the stubborness) seem to be

" survival " for them. I agree -- in their way of thinking, they may have adopted

their behaviors as a way to " survive. " They are in a painful world and don't

think anyone can understand them. They hate being made fun us (my daughter and

I didn't laugh a whole lot together).

Helen,

My daughter is 21, soon to be 22 in March, too. My granddaughter is 3. She's

with us right now. When away from her mom and with us, she does very well -- I

think we are the most stable, level folks in her world. My daughter thinks

she's a genius -- i don't. She can't even remember my 11 (soon to be 12-year

old) son's name. Some things she is good at -- puzzles, video games, watching

tv. At my house, the first night it was time to go to bed, she goes to her room

and says, " Where's my t.v.? " She has her own tv in her room at home. Dena's

babysitter. My son and I think it keeps her up, not soothes her. So, we

explained how we fall asleep -- we went to the library and got lots of books for

her. My son was so sweet -- he set up camp next to her bed, and fell asleep

with her. She was asleep in 2 minutes!!!!

I like my gd much better around us. She is very bratty around her mom.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

From: cascorsam@...

> Helen

>

> So I guess she lives near you if she wanted you to babaysit. Do you think

> your grandson is developmentally delayed due to her BPism? Do you think she

> is ignoring his needs or screaming at him all the time in typical BP fits?

>

> I was reading on another BP site that it is believed more and more that the

> majority of them with BP will grow out of a lot of the outward manifestations

> of it as they get older. Perhaps they simply losse the energy to rage as

> they get older. Or perhaps something clicks in their brains and they settle

> down a bit. With mine, I still see weird thinking from time to time, but not

> as much as I did just a year ago, but then hubby is working and she doesn't

> appear to be as stressed. Do you think stress has to do with setting off the

> symptoms?

>

> I admire your ability to stand your ground with her. Do you think it has

> helped her to behave in a more mature manner?

>

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Helen,

Our daughters seem somewhat similar in demeanor. The lies.

I find it interesting and wondered if anyone else noticed that their bp's do not

believe in god and have little to no faith. My daughter has always turned away

from it.

Helen, don't lose the faith. There is some lesson out there. I don't know why

this " gene " exists which causes warped thinking, and/or the brain just didn't

develop properly or chemically... It's an awful thing to live with. Especially

when they're in such denial.

I'll pray for our kids that they outgrow these unhealthy patterns and assimilate

better into the real world. I know with my daughter I feel her choices in life

have made it even harder for her.

Although she does love her baby. She is neglectful at times (usually within

their own home) but she does comfort her -- maybe too much..... For now, I

think she feels her daughter is an extension of her, a puppet. She's in for a

rude awakening.

Carol

--------- Re: lack of compassion/Helen

>

>

> Helen

>

> So I guess she lives near you if she wanted you to babaysit. Do you think

> your grandson is developmentally delayed due to her BPism? Do you think

> she

> is ignoring his needs or screaming at him all the time in typical BP fits?

>

> I was reading on another BP site that it is believed more and more that the

>

> majority of them with BP will grow out of a lot of the outward

> manifestations

> of it as they get older. Perhaps they simply losse the energy to rage as

> they get older. Or perhaps something clicks in their brains and they

> settle

> down a bit. With mine, I still see weird thinking from time to time, but

> not

> as much as I did just a year ago, but then hubby is working and she doesn't

>

> appear to be as stressed. Do you think stress has to do with setting off

> the

> symptoms?

>

> I admire your ability to stand your ground with her. Do you think it has

> helped her to behave in a more mature manner?

>

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think the challenge for Liz isn't just believing in God, but simply

accepting that she needs help of any kind. I remember when teachers would

offer to help her when she got behind in school because of illness, or when

she struggled with her weight, or other things that people normally accept

help for. She didn't.

Part of faith is realizing that we are just not equipped to " go it alone " ,

and she simply doesn't admit that. I hope some day she does!

Helen

> RE: lack of compassion/Helen

>

> Helen,

>

> Our daughters seem somewhat similar in demeanor. The lies.

>

> I find it interesting and wondered if anyone else noticed

> that their bp's do not believe in god and have little to no

> faith. My daughter has always turned away from it.

>

> Helen, don't lose the faith. There is some lesson out there.

> I don't know why this " gene " exists which causes warped

> thinking, and/or the brain just didn't develop properly or

> chemically... It's an awful thing to live with. Especially

> when they're in such denial.

>

> I'll pray for our kids that they outgrow these unhealthy

> patterns and assimilate better into the real world. I know

> with my daughter I feel her choices in life have made it even

> harder for her.

>

> Although she does love her baby. She is neglectful at times

> (usually within their own home) but she does comfort her --

> maybe too much..... For now, I think she feels her daughter

> is an extension of her, a puppet. She's in for a rude awakening.

>

> Carol

>

> --------- Re: lack of compassion/Helen

> >

> >

> > Helen

> >

> > So I guess she lives near you if she wanted you to babaysit. Do you

> > think your grandson is developmentally delayed due to her BPism? Do

> > you think she is ignoring his needs or screaming at him all

> the time

> > in typical BP fits?

> >

> > I was reading on another BP site that it is believed more and more

> > that the

> >

> > majority of them with BP will grow out of a lot of the outward

> > manifestations of it as they get older. Perhaps they simply

> losse the

> > energy to rage as they get older. Or perhaps something

> clicks in their

> > brains and they settle down a bit. With mine, I still see weird

> > thinking from time to time, but not as much as I did just a

> year ago,

> > but then hubby is working and she doesn't

> >

> > appear to be as stressed. Do you think stress has to do

> with setting

> > off the symptoms?

> >

> > I admire your ability to stand your ground with her. Do you

> think it

> > has helped her to behave in a more mature manner?

> >

> > Jean

> >

> >

> >